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M08-11-16 Certified Transcript
6 TOWN OF LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL MEETING AUGUST 11, 2016 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT CERTIFIED TRANSCRIPT 0 RECORDING Transcribed By: ADVANTAGE REPORTING SERVICES BY: LISA GLANVILLE, CSR 9932 1083 Lincoln Avenue San Jose, CA 95125 #52366 Advantage n Reporting Services, LLC 1083 Lincoln Avenue, San Jose, California 95125, Telephone (408) 920 -0222, Fax (408) 920 -0188 010106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A P P E A R A N C E S: Town Council: Mayor Barbara Spector Vice Mayor Marico Sayoc Council Member Marcia Jensen Council Member Steve Leonardis Council Member Rob Rennie Principal Planner: Joel Paulson Parks & Public Works Director: Matt Morley Assistant Town Manager/ CDD Director: Laurel Prevetti Town Attorney: Robert Schultz `a TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage JC �� Reporting Services, LLC 61 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S: MAYOR SPECTOR: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the special meeting for the Town of Los Gatos Town Council for August 11th, 2016. Let me begin by asking you, if you have not already done so, to silence your devices and ask the clerk to call the roll. THE CLERK: Thank you. And good evening. Council Member Marcia Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Here. THE CLERK: Council Member Rob Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Here. THE CLERK: Council Member Steve Leonardis. COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Here. THE CLERK: Vice Mayor Marico Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Here. THE CLERK: Mayor and Chair Barbara Spector. MAYOR SPECTOR: Here. If you'll please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. (Pledge of Allegiance.) MAYOR SPECTOR: We have one agenda item, business agenda item, but we do have verbal communications on the agenda. I don't have any cards.. If there's any individual who wishes to address us for 3 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage .�(r�,��pillJfl(�11 flReporting �1 i17 -31/ 6 Services, LLC 1 three minutes on any item not on the agenda, this is Advantage �-4J Reporting Services, LLC 2 your opportunity. 3 Seeing no one coming forward, we will go on 4 with our public hearing. 5 There's one item on our public hearing, and 6 this is the Architecture and Site Application 513090 and 7 Vesting Tentative Map Application M13014, property 8 location, southerly portion of the North 40 Specific 9 Plan area, Lark Avenue to the south of Noddin -- Noddin 10 or Noddin (pronunciation) Avenue. Applicant, Grosvenor 11 USA Limited, property owners Yuki Farms ETPH LP, 12 Grosvenor USA Limited, Summerhill North 40 LLC, 13 Elizabeth K. Dodson and William Hirschman. 14 I was going to have the Council ask questions 15 of Staff after we finished with the Applicant. 16 Ms. Prevetti, are you okay with that? 17 MS. PREVETTI: Yes. 18 MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. We finished the 19 public testimony on Tuesday, however, the Applicant has 20 ten -- no, five minutes left for rebuttal, so at this 21 time would the Applicant team like to come forward, give 22 us their five minutes of rebuttal. Thank you. 23 DON CAPOBRES: Good evening Mayor Spector, 24 members of the Town Council, members of the public. I'm 25 Don Capobres, representing Grosvenor. 4 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �-4J Reporting Services, LLC owi 1 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We commend Town residents and others who are concerned about various issues that impact the Town and the region for participating in the public hearing. What we heard and saw two evenings ago reminded us of something we learned a while back. The common characteristic of being a Los Gatan is the love for quality of life that is experienced here. But what we heard reminded us that it is not just one type of Los Gatan. We learned during the Lexington hearings that there is a mountain way of life that's different from the flatlanders, from time living downtown and spending time in the backyards of Highland Oaks and may be -- maybe an evening or two at Boulevard Tavern, we know the difference between downtowners and folks on the north end of town. What may be attractive housing for one person's parent may not be for others. Some shop downtown, others never come downtown for dining and shopping. Some like tall trees to screen housing, some don't want them to be tall. The Specific Plan balances many competing development standards and policy goals, as we outlined in our presentation two nights ago. These standards and policy goals .were.codified over a year ago. Together Grosvenor, Summerhill, Eden, and. Lexor Builders has put 5 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING AcEv=lage U l�n 1 ©epcg Services, LLC I together a team of passionate development and design 2 professionals who have designed not only to achieve the 3 objective standards of the Specific Plan, but to capture 4 the entire spirit of the document. 5 MS. BAKER: On top of that, we've interjected 6 what we have learned from countless hours of 7 conversations with you, whether it's been about the 8 North 40 or not. We've seen the Town change over the 9 years as well. Had the Specific Plan been adopted three 10 years ago, we might not have been compelled to try to 11 find a way to get the bike lanes that direct the 12 North 40 to the Los Gatos Creek Trail. That came about 13 because of conversations we all had together and the 14 recent movement to accept cycling as a mainstream mode 15 of transportation. ' 16 Over the years we observed not only in the 17 Specific Plan advisory -- we were observers not only in 18 the Specific Plan Advisory Committee process, but 19 engaged throughout the Town. 20 We attended and participated in Safe Routes to 21 Schools, LGUSD's education summits and the Reimagined 22 2022 Facilities Task Force, Town commissions such as 23 Transportation and Parking and Bicycle and Pedestrian 24 Advisory Commission, Housing Element Advisory Board, LGF 25 Millennium Foundation Fundraisers School Board meetings 6 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U1o1�1 Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 61 04 1 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and Net Zero conversations. We did this not because we had to, but because it was invaluable to have a holistic view of Los Gatos in order to propose a plan that not only satisfied the Specific Plan's objective standards, but to take into account these years of conversations. We have a team that started almost nine years ago with Grosvenor, but then expanded as the Specific Plan evolved. The opportunity for Eden Housing to provide 50 affordable units during a time when redevelopment agencies and funding has collapsed, and for Summerhill to build its fourth community in this town and for a small builder, Lexor Builder; to join a larger application, to work alongside not only one another's applicants, but also with the residents of this town to enable a unique opportunity for a truly collaborative design. . We hope you take the time to ask our team questions that will uncover how dedicated we've been and how we've worked to balance the needs of today and tomorrow without forgetting the town and the property's historian and agrarian roots. We're happy to elaborate on these or any questions you may have. Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Questions? Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: .I have several. I 7 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING AdvantageReporting t 011? Services, UC: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 m113 don't know if you want them to be categorized or how you want to go about it. MAYOR SPECTOR: I'm going to say do it as ever you'd like. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. Okay. My first question I think is for Ms. Olson. I'm sorry, I may get your name wrong. Did I? Osgood, I'm sorry, I knew it started with a zero -- not zero, 0. It's already going bad, so -- it's only 6:00 o'clock. We had several comments on Tuesday evening about the senior component, and I asked you about it just briefly just to talk about placing them over the market hall. You gave us a letter, thank you very much. I don't know if everybody in the audience has seen that, but I wanted you to elaborate, please, on, you know, emergency plans. We've had some concerns about how will the seniors exit, what kind of services will be provided. You gave us that information. Another comment that we had was what is the type and style of adequate space that the seniors are getting provided. Have you done that in other projects? So, for example, Community Gardens have provided that our private open space that's common to the residents, is that something you've done before? Is that something you find to be adequate? How does it work? And do you 8 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC W 1 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have any issues with maintenance of either that type of space or if you were, for example, to give everybody a balcony or a patio? What's your experience with that? I know I've asked you a lot of questions, so -- and talk fast, but hopefully you can get some of them at least. MS. OSGOOD: Sure. And if I miss anything, please let me know. I'll start with first one, which is emergency plans, and I assume you mean evacuation? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Yes. We had a comment that I think everybody got, and if they didn't, it was in case of an emergency, how will the seniors on the third floor be evacuated if power goes out. MS. OSGOOD: Sure. So I can also have the architect talk about that, but we follow all of the requirements under the California Building Code regarding exiting, path of travel, signage, and those kinds of things, so that's all prescripted by the California Building Code, and also meetings typically with the local fire department. Regarding I think common space and services, I'm going to lump those a little bit together, because yes, the building program that you see before you today is very typical of the type of housing that we do. Paula Krugmeier and BAR Architects have worked 9 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advautage , �{ RepertmS 010114 -*r ���5 Services, LLC 1 with Eden on several properties, many of which are 2 stand -alone Eden deals and developments where we're not 3 necessarily here with Grosvenor. The units are small, 4 and they're small by design. 5 One of our primary goals in senior housing is 6 to really help people live as independently as possible 7 with grace and dignity in a place that they can afford, 8 and part of living independently is seeing to seniors' 9 needs and making sure that they're healthy and that have 10 the services they need. And a big part of that is 11 making sure that we're reducing isolation through social 12 activities. 13 So yes, the units are small, but that doesn't 14 mean that there aren't places in the wider development 15 for groups to get together and interact. So we always 16 have a large community room and other smaller spaces 17 where you can deliver services, and an outdoor garden 18 area or courtyard. And we use those spaces to have 19 active, engaging activities that our onsite resident 20 coordinators coordinate. 21 So those might include more social in nature 22 things, tea and talk, ESL classes, arts and crafts, but 23 they can also have more educational and enrichment 24 programming around personal finance, education, health 25 and wellness, different clinics.. We'll often partner 10 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U1U115 Advantage jC pn Reporting Services, LLC (4% L 4 E 7 8 9 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with nearby agencies that come in and offer these programs onsite. I can go into more on that. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: No, I think you've answered it. And I will defer to if anyone else on the Council has questions on this issue before I step into a different issue. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Thank you. Ms. Osgood, during testimony on Tuesday, Mr. Tom Picraux had mentioned, he's the chair of our Community Services and Senior Commission, he had mentioned that he gave context to the lack of services that we have identified for seniors, and he mentioned that there might be future opportunity for Eden to work with seniors that don't live in your community -- in your center, and I want to make sure I -- did I hear that correctly, and if so, could you clarify how that would work. MS. OSGOOD: I mean, I think Eden is always an active participant in our community. Most recently was National Night Out, and I don't know how much the Town of Los Gatos celebrates that, but we had over 50 National Night Out events at our properties and developments all across the state. And that program is very much a celebration for our residents onsite, but 11 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage j I Reporting 010116 Services, J'LLC 1 it's also a way to connect our developments and 2 properties to the wider community, to local police, 3 local elected officials, but also just people in the 4 neighborhood to be a part of the community together. 5 So, you know, that would be some way that we 6 would out reach to the wider community. We do have a 7 community room which could be available, which I think 8 was mentioned for folks that want to maybe have an event 9 and come onsite. 10 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And one of the other 12 ideas thrown out about the reason why this was chosen 13 about market hall was the idea of seniors wanting to be 14 a part of the -- part of life, part of just existing, 15 whatever's going on. What I find, though, with our 16 downtown, for example, there is some conflicts that 17 usually arise between the need for quiet by a certain 18 time versus trying to create more of a vibrant downtown, 19 and so I worry about having a senior center on top of a 20 market hall, and again, could you just -- what are your 21 thoughts on that? Because there could.be some certain 22 constraints where I think if a millineal was on top, 23 would it necessarily have those problems. 24 MS. OSGOOD: Yeah, I mean, I think modern 25 construction also can deal very well with problems -- 12 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U1O117 l Advantage �—A q Reporting Services, LLC iA% G 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 ` -0y issues of noise. And we're talking about a market hall here, it's not necessarily, you know, like an all night business, either. So I don't think that that is going to cause us much concern as perhaps maybe you're worried about. As I mentioned before, we do have other properties that are located in very urban, loud areas. We have a couple properties right next to a BART station or a freight line and, again, we have looked at that -- and they're senior properties, and we've looked at that and done things in the building construction to make sure that seniors can close their windows, and not to get too wonky here, but the.STC rating is high enough that it will be a quiet, comfortable environment in their -- in their unit. MAYOR SPECTOR: When you do your wonky thing, do they have -- are they have air conditioning? MS. OSGOOD: I -- these are details I haven't gotten into since we're not -- MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. You only reminded me, 'cause you said that in order to reduce the noise you would close the window. MS. KRUGMEIER: Paula Krugmeier, BAR Architects. The -- going back to the security question, as Andrea Osgood pointed out, there are a number of 13 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING (1 t Advantage A0 Reporting U l Q 1 6 Services, LLC I exits from the podium level. There are two for the 2 building and two for the parking area, and from the 3 building you can go into the courtyard that has two 4 exits. So there are a lot of -- there are actually more 5 exits than are required from that podium level. So 6 there are a lot of options for getting people out. 7 In terms of the noise and bother -- potential 8 bothersome activities, the commercial area and any 9 restaurants in the area, by state law standards for 10 buildings, the interior of a dwelling unit must meet a 11 certain decibel level, decibel reduction from the 12 outside and must have a certain level of quiet. 13 The way buildings are built to current 14 standards as required in the State of California, the 15 interior -- the windows and building skins, for reasons 16 of sustainability, are now so highly sealed that you 17 actually have to have a ventilation system, which then, 18 in the case of Los Gatos, as with our project together 19 in Dublin with a similar climate, we would have air 20 conditioning, air conditioning and ventilation. 21 MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Mr. Rennie. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor 23 Spector. This is probably back for Ms. Osgood. Both 24 the other two council -- three Councilwomen kind of 25 asked most of my questions, but I want to re -ask one of 14 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 01011 Advantage J 7 deporting Services, LLC 61 LO Ll 7 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them. Our chair of our Senior and Community Services Commission, Mr. Picraux, stated as he was concerned that all these additional seniors.would stress the services that we already have. And you talked about some services, but could you answer it in the direction that -- so it sounds like you're probably providing -- you know, so when I think of senior services, I'm not going to name them all, but, you know, we have things like Live Oak Daycare Center, we have Live Oak Nutrition. You have the Law Foundation providing legal services. You have -- I won't go through the whole list, but -- so it sounds like I heard things that sort of relate to daycare services, but can you overall say whether we need to add to our services and whether maybe you're even supplementing other services or others that can come in as a trade off. MS. OSGOOD: Yeah, I mean, I think we have a whole company that is a professional services company, and I think we would look to coordinate and collaborate with Mr. Picraux and his group. It's quite possible that our senior services coordinator might be connecting an existing -- or a resident of the community to some existing services, but we also have properties all over the Silicon Valley, and we may have a network of other 15 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting Services, LLC 9 1 resources and groups that might be able to bring 2 resources to the community that that group is not yet 3 aware of, Mr. Picraux's group. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Sounds like you'd be a 5 net positive I think you're saying. 6 MS. OSGOOD: I believe so, yes. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. 8 MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I'm not sure if this is 10 for you or the architect, but another comment was -- or 11 comments were a concern with the amount of parking that 12 was provided for the senior units, and could you just 13 address that in your experience with other facilities 14 and why you think the parking here is adequate. 15 MS. OSGOOD.: Sure. We find -- we build senior 16 housing all over the Bay Area in very suburban 17 communities, much more car oriented communities much 18 like Los Gatos, and it is very typical in almost all of 19 our recent projects, in fact all of them, for seniors we 20 build at point five parking spaces per units. 21 Seniors tend to have fewer cars and -- and 22 especially over time somebody might have a car where 23 they're living now, and they move in, and they choose to 24 give up their car over time, and we've been able to make 25 the point five work very consistently at all of our 16 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010121 Advantage �'4q Reporting Services, LLC U 7 L 4 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 properties. And lower income people own fewer cars. It's something that you can find also in census data, but not to get too wonky. MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen, are you going to switch subjects now? COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: (Inaudible.) MAYOR SPECTOR: Go ahead. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Two quick things. You. mentioned lower income seniors don't tend to have cars. So then I'm assuming there's transportation that you would be providing for the seniors that live there? MS. OSGOOD: We don't provide separate transportation. That is already available in the community, but we do like a residence services coordinator can help connect a resident to local Paratransit if it's required, or, you know, we might have local -- MAYOR SPECTOR: Hold on, please. MS. OSGOOD: Yeah. MAYOR SPECTOR: I asked you last time, and I'm going to ask you again. You're going the hear things this evening from all speakers and from the Council, some of which you will appreciate and some of which you will not like. I'm expecting you to listen to everybody 17 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage l / Reporting Services, LLC 1 with respect and quiet. And I'm hoping that we don't 2 have to, you know, have people exit this room and sit 3 outside, so please respect everybody, the speaker, the 4 Council, everybody. Thank you. I'm sorry, go ahead. 5 MS. OSGOOD: So the short answer is no, we 6 don't operate our own shuttle buses or anything like 7 that, but we do help seniors get around and help them 8 coordinate through available resources if they don't 9 have a car. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And my final thing 11 before we move away from the senior, there's a lot of 12 discussion of placing them on'top of market hall isn't a 13 positive thing. Looking at your architect, could you 14 show with your elevations in your plan how does it look 15 ..like? You're going to be shared parking, it's going to 16 be adjacent to a parking lot, it's on top of a market 17 hall. Where does one enter, how does one exit? I mean, 18 these are all the things that I've been trying to think 19 of if I'm -- if I have my mother there. Can I see what 20 kind of environment she'd be living in? 21 MS. OSGOOD: Sure. And we definitely think 22 through all those things, and I think before I hand it 23 over to Paula, I just want to sort of share something. 24 I think I mentioned Tuesday and in my letter, you know, 25 we do have people already on our.interest list. We 18 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 1 r} Advantage JC pn Reporting U I O J Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 haven't advertised this. We just started it up in January, frankly, and we have over 30 people who want to live here, and 15 of those people are from the Town of Los Gatos. In fact, I had lunch with them not too long ago, the folks that live here in Los Gatos that want to live here, to talk to them about the property and answer any questions they have and see if they might come on Tuesday to speak with you. I met a woman who is 75 years old, has lived here ever since she was five, lost her house because she had to sell it to pay for her husband's Alzheimer's care that he had for 15 years, and she now lives in a sub standard apartment and doesn't know how much longer she can stay there. And some of those people came to speak to.you on Tuesday, but because of the tenure of the community, on some of the people in the crowd, they chose to leave, and I just feel like that's something you should know. There are people who are scared to talk about how important this is to them, and they're people that live here today. And they're excited about the potential of this development. MS. KRUGMEIER: Generally speaking, as you know, this is the -- one of the most mixed use buildings in the proposed submittal, and I.must say for the lasts 19 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage:.l t^., Reporting 010124 Services, UC 1 25 years we've been gaining experience doing mixed use 2 buildings, so where the entries are, how people 3 circulate through, how we help create separation between 4 public and private is very, very important to us. 5 So with that as kind of a basis of creating 6 circulation for the buildings, what I would say is -- 7 let's see. I'm going to just -- yeah, you can -- here 8 we go. I can point to it. 9 The main entrance to the development or to the 10 commercial district is here, and kind of the core of the 11 district is around Neighborhood Street. To create both 12 continuity of the commercial frontage and privacy for 13 the seniors, we have tucked the lobby for the seniors 14 more towards the back side of the building. And what 15 does that do for us? That allows folks that are coming 16 and going to enter,.pass by the commercial activity.and 17 come into a quieter area where there's a duck out. This 18 duck out is where transit, Paratransit taxi or some kind 19 of -- where you would come to perhaps pick up your 20 mother, can duck in here out of the flow of traffic. 21 There is a lobby, and then one goes upstairs to 22 the living levels. Once one ducks in here with a car, 23 they can circulate around in the normal circulation of 24 the site to go out. They don't have to make a u -turn or 25 anything like that. 20 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ��1O1GJ Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 2 11 l: 1< 1: 1� 1� if 1. lE 1� 2( 21 22 2. 24 25 L If you're a resident who lives here, you enter ? past your -- past your lobby. You come in, and you 3 directly go up the ramp, and you arrive at the parking 1 level, which is the podium level, so there -- there's i only one level of market below the housing, but there i are two levels of parking, so we've squeezed in those I levels of parking. i So if you're entering by your own vehicle, this i is your parking area, and you enter right into where the 1 community space is. So just to give you an orientation of the plan in general, right in the heart of the plan you come up either from the lobby at the ground level, or you come in through the garden and the community space here. And about half the units are on one side and about half the units are on the other side. Did that answer the question? MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And where are the elevators? MS. KRUGMEIER: The elevators are stacked here. And so as you come out of the elevator, you're right in the heart of the space. And the central office would be in that area. As Andrea pointed out, that's where there'd be a little computer room library. There's a community room with a kitchen and restrooms and that 21 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reportmg 010126 Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 sort of thing. But by the way, I also would like to say something about this garden area. The way Eden Housing develops their senior developments is really, really fantastic. They get great participation in community gardens. They have experimented with having private decks versus common areas. So the advantage of having a common area is that folks get out of their units and go and enjoy it. The other thing we've seen in hot climates when folks have a little private patio off their unit is that they're not that big, and the air conditioning condenser ends up being on it, so it doesn't end up being as practical as having a larger shared area where people can actually get together and remove some of that isolation that sometimes happens with senior communities. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc? COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: (.Inaudible.) MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Now, focusing on Eden. All right. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor Spector. So I didn't realize this before, but it looks like on the fourth floor on the side before this community garden must be a well that goes up, so the 22 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Reporting 010127 Services, LLC (A L d C E i 8 a J 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 people from the fourth floor that are by that, do they have windows that overlook the community garden? MS. KRUGMEIER: So on the podium level here there's nothing well -like about it. The only thing that's well -like is the ramp going down. So only the cars would experience something that you have described. This is a large open area -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So - MS. KRUGMEIER: -- that is at least 80 feet wide. 80 -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: 'So on the fourth floor on the side. MS. KRUGMEIER: So on the fourth floor their windows -- the one thing you have with housing is a window approximately every 12 feet. That is kind of the nature of housing, 'cause rooms are on the average 12 feet, so you have series of living and bedroom windows here. You have living and bedroom windows also on the outside. So yes, people have views down and can actively look at it and visually participate. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: So while they're there, any other questions for Eden or the senior housing? Seeing no one, thank you. And we'll go on. Ms. Jensen, you have other 23 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage U 1 ®128 12S Reporting Services, LLC 1 categories of questions. 2 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I do. And some of 3 these questions, just so that Staff knows, I am going to 4 be asking the Applicant, and then I'm going to be asking 5 the same question of Staff, because I know that the 6 Applicant has a particular interpretation and a 7 viewpoint on certain of them, and Staff may have a 8 viewpoint on them as well, so I want to make sure I get 9 both of them. 10 So one of the things, and just for the Council, 11 it's our Staff Report that we got for tonight that was 12 responding to the questions that we raised on Tuesday, 13 and I'm looking at page two, and it's the first section 14 regarding CEQA analysis, and it's a generalized section. 15 I'm looking at the last paragraph..before the 16 paragraph that's numbered two, and it said -- there's 17 two parts to this question, it's probably for the 18 lawyer, wherever the lawyer is. "More importantly, as 19 a," quote, "by right," unquote, "development, additional 20 CEQA analysis is not required because the project is not 21 a project" -- "not considered a project under CEQA." 22 So I know that "a project" is a term of art, so 23 I just want to understand the interpretation from the 24 Applicant what that interpretation is, why is it a 25 project, why is it not a project, and I'm curious how 24 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 1 ®12 Advantage u In Reporting Services, LLC 6 EMO 1 L 4 W, 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that plays with -- well, I'll get to the other CEQA stuff. So just -- but for now project versus not a project. MS. BAKER: You're right. We're going to have our attorney answer this one. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. MR. FABER: Thank you and good evening. Andrew Faber. I am attorney for the Applicants. Under CEQA, as I think the Council has had experience over the years with CEQA, it applies to things called projects, and projects are discretionary decisions that a public entity takes. So, for example, decisions that are not discretionary, CEQA does not apply to, for example, building permits, which are deemed to be ministerial. In the housing element legislation, the statute on state law that talks about by right development, it says that by right means that it is -- that the arc -- site and architectural review for projects that are by right are not projects. I shouldn't have said for projects. What I should have said for developments, those are not projects within the meaning of CEQA. It says that specifically. So that's the short answer as to what that 25 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage JCin Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 119131 means. In addition -- well, I can go on, but that's the short answer. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I'll take the short answer for• °now. If you want to follow up, that's great, but the other part of my question -- again, this is something I'll follow up with.staff -- is I'm curious, I have an idea about this; but I want to see what your idea is and staff's idea, there's 13.5 acres that is designated under the housing element as 20 units per acre, which is the by right housing. That means I could build a house on it, and you get to tell me what the house looks like, but beyond that, you don't get to tell me too much is at least the way I think about it. And my question is what I see in Applicant's t letters, or what I think I see,..is an interpretation that takes that definition of the by right, if you will, on the housing and expands it to the entire application; commercial, restaurant, whatever it might be, and so my question is am I right that you're expanding it to the entire application, and if you are, what's your reasoning behind that? MR. FABER: I think the -- again, the short answer is it applies to the housing, and it applies to mixed use development, because in the Density Bonus Law 26 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 14 1 Advantage �_A , Reporting Services, LLC W 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it specifically talks about one of the characteristics of housing developments are mixed use developments. In this case, for phase one, the marketplace that you've just been talking about with the seniors above it in that building meets the definition of a mixed use development under the Density Bonus Law. So in fact, the Density Bonus Law and the Housing Accountability Act and the housing element all apply to that project, that part of the project as well. So in -- again, the short answer to your question, I believe, is that, in fact, the way this project is proposed, it is by right the entire project, and in addition, to di -- to expand slightly on that, if I might, there was discussion at the Council meetings earlier and Planning Commission as well about the possibility of moving units into the Northern District, for example, so reducing the number approved as part of this phase one, and actually we think that you can't do that, because you have a project in front of you, and the project in front of you is entitled to be approved as is under the Housing Accountability Act and the Density Bonus Law and the housing element statute. And those laws do not allow you to say well, you know, we could put some of this housing somewhere else, because there's no application to do that in front of the Town 27 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage�n Reporting 010132 Services,lLLC i 1 now. 2 There could have been if there were an 3 application to put it somewhere else, then perhaps units 4 could be mixed, but in fact there is one project in 5 front of you, and the point of these state laws is to 6 say that if you have a housing project in front of you 7 that complies with the zoning and the planning, then it 8 must be approved unless you make very specific findings 9 that of course Staff has told you about, and you can't 10 deny part of it, for example, by reducing the density, 11 even if you have a good faith intention of someday 12 restoring that somewhere else, because that future 13 somewhere else project is not in front of you. 14 MAYOR SPECTOR: Any follow -up? Go ahead. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Just a couple. Do you 16 have a case cite for why -- why I can't do that, that 17 says I have to do.it? You just told me that I -- even 18 though I can, there.'s specific findings that I can't do 19 it here 'cause there's a law. Do you have a cite for 20 me? 21 MR. FABER: Well, I think the -- the housing 22 element -- the Housing Element Law, the Density Bonus 23 Law, the Housing Accountability Act all deal with that. 24 There are -- 25 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: .Okay. 28 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING l 010133 Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC L E i E c 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. FABER: -- cases -- there are very few cases under these laws. Honchoru (phonetic) was one. The Wolmer (phonetic) case under the Density Bonus Law, for example, deals with the issue of could you, for example, say that the senior and market rate housing should be lower, because we don't need such high ceilings in your opinion, if you had that opinion, and the Wolmer case, which has been sited to you in letters, Wolmer versus Berkeley, specifically says you can't do that, that in fact the developer's entitled to have his project evaluated based on the particular amenities and design that is proposed. So those are some relevant cases, and we could -- if you have more specific questions, we could give you more research. There aren't very many cases in the area, though, as perhaps you know. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. And another follow up. And I may have more, but this is one of them. One of the ways.that I think about the Specific Plan, which is difficult to get anyone to think about the Specific Plan, the way I think about it is it's really a zoning scheme. I've created zoning for this 44 acres. It's not a planned development. I'm not making it up, I'm not changing it, and if I own part of that zoning just like if I own a house in the Almond Grove, 29 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage J" 'n Reporting 0 10 13 J �i' erviees, LLC 1 and it's zoned for residential, and there's 100 lots, I 2 don't have to wait to build my lot for the other 99 to 3 get built because I'm in a residential zone. 4 And what I just heard you say is that well, 5 because there's not other applications in front of you, 6 you have to take all of mine. Why can't -- why can't I 7 say I know there's other land out there, I have a zoning 8 scheme, and I don't have to wait for every application 9 to come in, 'cause I don't know whether it will, when, 10 how, if, but if I decide, based upon specific objective 11 findings, that I don't want to put the whole 13 and a 12 half, just because you gave me an application that does, 13 why do I have to accept that? Because that's -- because 14 there's no application out there? 15 That doesn't make sense to me, because if I've 16 got a house with a lot, and there's 99 that haven't 17 developed yet, I don't have to wait. So please explain 18 why I'm wrong. 19 MR. FABER: I hesitate to say you're right or 20 wrong, but I -- in fact, I agree with some of your 21 interpretation. We've had debates here before, I 22 remember having one a couple months ago, as a matter of 23 fact. But I think in this example, Council Member, the 24 situation is that we have -- you and -- the Specific 25 Plan is zoning. It is the General Plan and it is zoning 30 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING OHM " Advantage UA( �q Reporting Services, LLC G E C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 actually, it's both. And the Specific Plan and the housing element say that there's by right development. The Housing Accountability Act says that if an Applicant applies for a project that is consistent with the General Plan and the zoning, which we contend this is, and the staff agrees, then it cannot be denied or reduced unless the Council can make specific findings, as you know, based on objective criteria that are written, quantifiable objective criteria that there are specific public health and safety issues, not just the fact that the Council might say, you know, in looking at this again, maybe we'd like some of the housing put somewhere else, which might be consistent with the Specific Plan or it might not. It really doesn't matter. The fact is that this project is consistent, and, therefore, if you say well, you know, we'd like to put -- take 50 units off this project and put them somewhere else, you are in fact denying or reducing density of this project, which is the one in front of you. And the Housing Accountability Act was passed by the state for exactly this purpose. It's exactly the purpose to say if a city has done a lot of planning, it has zoning, it has planning, and, it's designed.to allow 31 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage�n Reporting 010136 Services, LLG 1 certain quantities and densities and locations of 2 housing, that's the end of the planning. That's like 3 the PD zoning, as I think the Applicant's mentioned in 4 one of their letters. That's like when a PD zoning 5 comes in front of you for another project. In this 6 case, in effect the zoning came in front of you last 7 year for several years, and the zoning is the Specific 8 Plan, and you adopted a Specific Plan. And the Specific 9 Plan says this is what you can do under the zoning. 10 So the housing -- the purpose of the Housing 11 Accountability Act and the purpose of the housing 12 element by right legislation, is that if an Applicant 13 comes in and says here's my project, which is consistent 14 with all the planning and zoning you've done, which is 15 the case here and the staff agrees, then it must be 16 approved. 17 So you don't have that flex -- you had that 18 flexibility at the Specific Plan stage. The Specific 19 Plan could have said, for example, there should be more 20 housing in the Northern District, it doesn't have to be 21 above retail. It could have said many different things, 22 but it says what it says, and it was adopted by the 23 Town, and this project complies, and that's why you 24 don't have the flexibility that you just mentioned. 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. 32 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ui�137 Advantage Y"J Reporting Services, LLC 1 (IN 1 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Unless I have specific objectable -- objective quantifiable findings. MR. FABER: And there are specific health and safety problems with it. Yes, if you have those, you have more flexibility, but so far -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. MR. FABER: -- no one has come up with those. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. I understand your position. Thank you very much. MAYOR SPECTOR: Hold on. I want to follow up on that. I just want to make sure I understand. So even though your client is applying for a right that encompasses the entire Specific Plan; i.e., 270 units under the entire Specific Plan, and even though your client is doing a phase that is a portion of that Specific Plan; your client is still entitled, as you are saying, to the entire 270 units plus bonus. MR. FABER: Well, it's actually 237 plus bonus, but -- is all they have applied for, but in conceptually, yes. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, thank you. Do we have any other questions on housing? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Yes. MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: .If there was something 33 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage `4q Reporting U D 138 Services, LLC 1 that was going to be added, I'm curious. 2 MR. FABER: We have another lawyer here -- 3 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Oh, boy. 4 MR. FIBER: -- (inaudible) housing law. So she 5 has something else. 6 MAYOR SPECTOR: Let's do this one at a time. 7 Is this -- I'm sorry. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Is this on the same 9 topic that you -- 10 MAYOR SPECTOR: Are you answering the same 11 question that I just asked? 12 MS. KAUTZ: Let's see. No, I am not answering 13 the same, because Andy answered it the way I would have 14 answered it. i 15 MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Now, do we have any' 16 other questions about this? 17 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: On -- 18 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Sorry, okay. 20 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Well, so with the by 22 right, my understanding is the by right that is entitled 23 to your Applicant is strictly limited to the residential 24 component of this application. 25 MR. FABER: Well, it's -- as I said or tried to 34 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING "101,33 Advantage Jqpq Reporting Services, LLC L� 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 say earlier, in fact, the senior affordable project is a mixed use building as defined in the law, because it's a combination of first story retail for neighborhood serving uses with residential above it. So that's also by right we believe. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: But there are -- there are other portions of the application that are non - residential, the open space, the community gardens, the other commercial areas. That does not fall under the by right residential component. MR. FABER: Well, it's one project. Obviously you have some discretion if you want to read -- re- figure some of the open space in a way that doesn't change the buildings. I think the Town certainly has the right to do that. For example, that was lot of discussion two nights ago about trees, kinds of trees, drought resistant trees, number of trees, heights of trees, things like that, are certainly within your purview. And that's not a by right issue, that's a legitimate planning function, I believe. MAYOR SPECTOR: Do we have any other questions about the by right? Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Curious whether -- if any portion of the housing that is proposed in the 35 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING (1 fn] ( 1Advantage Jrnn Reporting tl 1 U 1 Y 0 Services, LLC 1 application is mixed use, you were -- your argument is. 2 then that covers the rest of it. So, for example, let's�;- 3 say you have mixed use, that's the 49 senior units over 4 the market hall, and I agree with you that that comes 5 into the Accountability Law, but I take out the rest of 6 it because you're -- you're using the mixed use to make 7 that qualify? Does that make any sense to you? 8 All right. So if I -- let's say I eliminate 9 that. 10 MR. FABER: I going to defer to Barbara Kautz 11 on that. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: The mixed use portion 13 of it. 14 MS. KAUTZ: I'm Barbara Kautz. I'm also an 15 attorney for Grosvenor and S.ummerhill. There -- in the 16 Housing Accountability Act, there's a definition of a 17 housing development, which is covered by the -- by the 18 requirement that the density can't be reduced, or the 19 project be denied, you know, unless you have some 20 objective -- you know, unless it doesn't comply with 21 objective standards, or there's public health safety 22 standard. 23 So that -- and the definition includes a 24 project that has neighborhood commercial, where the 25 neighborhood commercial is limited to first floor, which 36 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING l 01 ®141 Advantage jqp`' Reporting Services, LLC 60 ii 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is the case here. So that's included in the definition of housing development in the Housing Accountability Act. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions on this issue? Seeing none, go to the Council for -- I'll start with Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Sorry. MAYOR SPECTOR: Other category of question? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: This is still on -- I guess it's on density and housing, but again, it's for reference, page three of our Staff Report for tonight, and it is on the question of replacement housing for the arguably low income housing that existed on the site. And we have an answer that -- from the Staff, and I'm just going to read it. "It is assumed that all of the existing units are or have been occupied by very low income housing. The project proposes to provide 49 very low income units and, therefore, meets the statutory requirements to replace the units." My question is does it matter that those are age restricted units? MS. KAUTZ: I would -- I would start by saying that the -- that particular statute has a provision stating that for applications that were made before January 1st, 2015, the replacement housing requirement 37 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL.MEETING ((�� Advantage �l' I^ Reporting U 1 ®1 Services, LLC 1 does not apply, and this application was made in 2 November of 2013 and continues. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I appreciate that. 4 It's an intellectual exercise. 5 MS. KAUTZ: But on the intellectual exercise, 6 there's also a requirement; as I'm sure you're alluding 7 to, that the units have to be replaced with units of the 8 same type or size. 9 There's no definition whatsoever of the same 10 type. Our position is that the existing housing out 11 there is rental housing, and it's being replaced by 12 rental housing, and so the fact that it's age restricted 13 wouldn't matter. 14 And maybe I should add that there's a -- 15 there's some clean up legislation proposed to that 16 replacement housing provision, because aspects of it are 17 rather incomprehensible. And I received an e -mail today 18 from the person who handled the work for the -- was the 19 consultant for the assembly housing committee when the 20 bill was passed saying that they were doing this clean 21 up legislation, and everybody wondered what type and 22 size -- or size meant, what did type mean. She said, 23 you know, we need to define it, because nobody 24 understands what that means. 25 I'm -- you know, our interpretation is that 38 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING aia1, =3 Advantage jc�q Reporting Services, LLC U Mikki 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it -- you know, it's very low income housing. It clearly has more than enough replacement, and also that it is replacing rental housing with rental housing. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Let me follow up, and then we'll go to Miss Sayoc. You referenced the date of November 2013, and given that we approved the Specific Plan in June of 2015, can you explain to me what November 2013 is. MS. KAUTZ: The Applicants actually made an application for -- for this project before the Specific Plan was approved. In looking through the Staff, you know, comments about why the application was incomplete, one of the comments was actually it was obviously that the Specific Plan had not been approved yet. That application was very similar to the one you have before you today. It had a few more units, I think it had 335 rather than 320, but that application was made. The Staff looked at it for completeness. The same application number remains today, so that is the same application that they made. There was no -- there's no requirement in the state law that the application had to be complete before January 1st of 2015. There was only a requirement that the application had to have been.made. W TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING //Advantage n^ Reporting 0101 2 4 Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: So you're saying that in November of 2013, your client made an application under a Specific Plan that was approved in June of 2015? Is that what you're saying? MS. KAUTZ: No. I'm saying that my client made an application -- made an application to have a project approved on the site, which at that point the Council could have, the City could have approved or denied. The Staff responded that the plan was -- you know, that there were a number of things that needed to be added to the plan, that the plan was incomplete, you know, the application was incomplete back in 2013. And also that they believe that the Specific Plan should be approved before the project could be approved. But it's the same application, very similar to what you have in front of you today. MAYOR SPECTOR: When you say the same application, you say well, it looked the same? What do you mean by the same application? Because we have the application. So why is it the same? MS. KAUTZ: Because the application -- I mean, typically with planning applications, somebody applies for a plan, right? They get comments back from the Staff. They may get comments back from the Council, or at some kind of a study session they make modifications 40 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING \I ... Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 1 L 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in the plan. The plan is reviewed consistently, you . know, it has the same application number. The plans are very similar to what was approved before -- to what was submitted before. I'm not exactly sure. Your -- according to some of the materials that we saw, the Staff responded to that application within 30 days and gave the -- gave a list of things that were required to make the application complete. Your -- I don't know if it's a policy, but it's stated that the application -- Applicant then needs to come back within six months with the revised plans. The Applicants continued to come back every six months with revised plans responding to additional comments, you know, that they received from City Staff until the application was deemed complete earlier this year. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: First a comment. I need to clarify that the application that I'm looking at, I consider it an application that came in in 2015, and I've been hearing a lot of discussion about this -- 2016, sorry. Because the Specific Plan that we were reviewing and creating was not in any way a reflection of an application that came in 2013. I never looked at any application, so I just 41 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING y 0 t4®radage �n Reporting Services, LLLC i1 want to make sure we understand there is a separation . 2 between the plan the Town created and then the 3 application that was supposed to happen subsequent to 4 the vision we created in 2015, and it's not the other 5 way around. 6 So I just want -- we didn't create a Specific 7 Plan in response to an application. 8 MS. KAUTZ: We -- yes. I have never -- I 9 didn't say that. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. I clarified 11 that. 12 MS. KAUTZ: The clients wanted -- wanted to 13 get, should we say, a head start on dealing with some of 14 the very complicated technical issues, and so they -- 0 15 they submitted a plan. I believe the only people who 16 ever looked at it were the staff members who needed to 17 review it to make -- to respond about.whether or not it 18 was a complete application or not. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So that -- having 20 said that, I need -- you spoke really quickly about -- 21 MS. KAUTZ: Sorry. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: -- the response on 23 page three to the existing homes that are there. 24 Assuming that they were there up until -- 25 MS. KAUTZ: Well, they're still there. 42 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 01®1,7 Advantage 4q Reporting Services, LLC li l: 1; 1: l� l� lE l; lE 1� 2C 21 22 23 24 25 I COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: They're still there, 2 okay. Regardless of the January 1, 2015 changes that 3 the law requires, what is your interpretation of how 1 your application conforms with the existing units and i how those units will be replaced with the 49 that are i above market hall? 7 MS. KAUTZ: You know, as -- I just need to 3 reiterate that we don't believe that that particular ! requirement applies to this application. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. MS. KAUTZ: Okay. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Then -- MS. KAUTZ: But I will -- COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: -- no elaboration (inaudible). MS. KAUTZ: But I will elaborate. First of all -- let's see. Even if you assume that all of the units are occupied by very low income households, which my clients state is not in fact the case, but let's assume that, the first requirement in the replacement housing is that it be replaced with housing at the same or lower income level. So I don't believe that there's any -- that there is any argument that if -- if in fact these are 16 to 19 -- we're actually not even quite sure how many units are out there, if. these are 16 to 19 very 43 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage l "n Reporting Coils services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 1.8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0101 :13 low income units, they're being replaced by 49 very low income units. I don't believe that anyone is arguing that the income level of the replacement level -- units is inadequate. The -- the issue that I think you're alluding to is a requirement that they be the same type or size, so what does it mean that they are the same type? There is nothing in the statute that describes what it means to have them be the same type of unit, .nothing at all. And, as I said, even the state recognizes that it's not at all clear what is meant by that. MAYOR SPECTOR: Let me follow up, then. So the decision as to type or size; same type or size, that would be made by whom? The decision - makers? MS. KAUTZ: We are asserting that they are the same type of units in that they are rental apartment -- rental units like the ones out there. MAYOR SPECTOR: Right. Understood. MS. KAUTZ: You know, and then we can argue. MAYOR SPECTOR: Or we could decide. Ms. Jensen, anything further on this issue? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Just a couple, sorry. So for -- let's imagine that there's possibly maybe litigation. You're taking the position that it's rental to rental, there's no -- there's nothing in the 44 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING "I Advantage Jmq R,egorting Services, LLC U 7 L E i 8 0 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 state law that indicates what type means, and whether it's age restricted or not is a question that either the Council's going to decide, and then if somebody challenges it, a court's going to decide. MS. KAUTZ: You know, actually our position is that the provision doesn't apply to the project. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. And now my other -- MS. KAUTZ: (Inaudible.) COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- question. Certainly the Applicants have been around the Town long enough to understand how some of this stuff works, but, for example, I have a restaurant and I want entertainment, and the Planning Commission says, yeah, when we get it, when we make a policy, we'll let you know. And that could be ten years from now, but -- so I've kind of said I want to do it. Is that an application, or, you know, you -- there's - -- there was always a provision in the General Plan we need to make a Specific Plan for the North 40. So I could.say yes, here's my application. It's got 500 houses and, you know, 800,000 square feet of commercial, and the Staff says, you know, you got to wait for the Specific Plan. And so my question is does that -- for Staff as well, does that count as an application, and if there 45 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantages Reporting 0 1 0 1 Serviees,LLC i 1 are substantial changes to what you're saying is the 2 application, the houses have been reduced, the square 3 footage has been reduced, there's something that's 4 significantly different -- and you're looking at me like 5 you're confused, so either I'm going to slow down, or 6 I'm going to say it in a different way. 7 MS. KAUTZ: No, I understand what you're 8 saying -- 9 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. 10 MS. KAUTZ: -- I'm sorry. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: So what do you say 12 counts as an application? And I'm almost hearing you 13 say that because it has the same number now as it did in 14 November two thir -- 2013, that that's your application, 15 no matter what happened to it, because it's got the same 16 number. 17 MS. KAUTZ: I'm not -- I am saying that under 18 the Town's own policies that have been established for 19 when a new -- when a new application needs to be 20 submitted, this is the same application. 21 MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Now, do we have any 22 other. questions on housing? We have the answer on this, 23 Mr. (inaudible). Any other questions? 24 MS. KAUTZ: My client wants to add something. 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Are you answering the same 46 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 01915-1 Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LJX e c E E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 question, Mr. Capobres? MR. CAPOBRES: I would be, yes, Madam. Mayor. So in different projects that we've worked on in the past, applications such as ours are processed concurrently with a Specific Plan that's going through. And more -- actually, more often than not, that is the case, and without a doubt, fees were paid in terms of application process since -- since we submitted the application and got the application number, and so it's not uncommon for the -- the application and the Specific Plan to go concurrently, and which I know all too well, we're not sure when the Specific Plan was going to be approved. No one told me in 2008 that the Specific Plan was going to be approved in 2015. And so- we move forward with an application kind of relying upon the fact that the process was going to move forward, and at some point in time the Specific Plan was going to be approved. And so, again, it's not uncommon that they move concurrently. We've paid the fees, and the timing of the approval of the Specific Plan was uncertain. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Now, do we have any other questions? Given the way Ms. Jensen started, any other questions on housing? Ms. Jensen. MS. KAUTZ: Mayor Spector, could I -- 47 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting 0101b2 Services, LLC I MAYOR SPECTOR: I'm going to wait for 2 Ms. Jensen's question. 3 MS. KAUTZ: I just wanted to clarify one 4 answer. 5 MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. 6 MS. KAUTZ: Okay. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I just have a process 8 question for the Mayor. There's a number of issues that 9 we have in our Staff Report that we asked for answers to 10 Tuesday that pertain to housing in some fashion, and I'm 11 wondering whether you want those asked now, or can we go 12 through the numbering in the Staff Report? What's your 13 preference? 14 MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. I did not assume 15 that the questions and answers to which we received 16 input from Staff this afternoon would be necessarily 17 repeated here as part of our public hearing. Having 18 said that -- so I don't -- in my mind it doesn't have to 19 be done. Having said that, if you or other members of 20 the Council want to raise those questions publicly, 21 that's acceptable, also. 22 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. So I'm 23 happy to hear the clarification, and then I have a 24 different question. 25 MS. KAUTZ: You asked who determines -- who 48 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING I` U 1 U 1 ai ry Advantage jc�q Reporting Services, LLC U (j% L c E i E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 interprets type or size, and the correct answer should. have been the courts ultimately. Sorry. MAYOR SPECTOR: And you mean the courts litigation post this hearing. MS. KAUTZ: If there's a disagreement about -- if there is a disagreement, you know, the courts always say we're the ones who interpret. MAYOR SPECTOR: So it's like if three of us say X, then you take it to the court and the court says no, it's Y? MS. KAUTZ: Exactly. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: May I ask a quick question of Staff that may lead to more questions on this? MAYOR SPECTOR: Certainly. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So I'm stuck on this application date. Was there any required studies that we normally require of applications that were done in 2013 and not in the 2016 time frame that at least I was thinking of? MR. PAULSON: So many times the applications come in, and those studies haven't been done, so that's not something that's done at the time of application necessarily. Those are done through the process of HM TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reporting Services, LLC 1 reviewing the applications, (inaudible) geotech, 2 architect, arborist. So they're -- they're -- they dof 3 span that time frame of the application. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. But it doesn't 5 answer my question. Did those studies occur in 2013 or 6 in 2016? 7 MR. PAULSON: I don't have that information 8 right now. We'll see if we can dig it up. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. 10 MR. SCHULTZ: If I may. So it -- the 11 application, when it comes in, is sometime triggered by 12 what we call the Permitting Streamlining Act. So any 13 time we get an application that comes in, that's the 14 date the application is submitted and filed with the 15 Town. Anyone can do that at any time on any piece of 16 property. And at that time we accept a fee, the 17 application fee. 18 We have 30 days from that date to deem the 19 application complete or incomplete. If we don't do 20 that, then it's deemed complete, and we have to go to 21 the next step, which has times when you have to get it 22 to a hearing. So Staff is very mindful that first 30 23 days when it comes in, it's got to review its 24 application and decide whether it's deemed complete or 25 incomplete. 50 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 1110155 Advantage �A1 q Reporting Services, LLC 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 For this one, you'll see on the front of your page that they did that. They did that in November 14th, 2013. Within 30 days of that, we deemed that application incomplete and said one of the reasons -- I'm sure as you heard was one of the reasons.why is because we were studying a Specific Plan. Then we went back.and probably -- there was probably a laundry list of things that deemed it incomplete. They knew they couldn't fix the Specific Plan until that was over, but maybe there were other things they could. Came back in April 29th. So each time you can see they submitted a new application for us to review within that 30 days and process. The law, in my mind, is clear, and I can read that to you, that it says, "It does in the apply to an applicant seeking a density bonus for a proposed housing development if the application was submitted to or processed by a city, county or city or county before January lst, 2015." It doesn't say that the application had to be deemed complete. If that was the case, we could make an argument that this section applies. But all it says is the application has to be submitted or processed by the Town or the City. And I have a difficult time saying that this application wasn't submitted to the Town 51 TRANSCRIPTION.08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting Services, LLC 11 bAl 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 before 2015. You could make the argument that they meant it had to also be deemed complete, but that's not in the legislation. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Further questions now? Miss Sayoc. While you think about it, anybody else -- I'm going to stick to housing. Anybody else have any housing questions? Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I had a house -- I'm not sure whether this is going to qualify as housing, but it has to do with the density bonus and the waivers that are requested. And this was something that I brought up the other night, and to the Mayor, yes, I understand that we have answers from the Staff, but I wanted to get answers from the Applicants with respect to this as well to figure out what people's positions are, and I may want to follow up with the Staff. But the waivers that were requested - and this may not be for the -- well, part of it's for the lawyer, and part of it's maybe for your architect. The first part of the question is, which I asked on Tuesday, Applicants submitted request for waiver, which basically had-to do with height, and one of them was please measure the height from the completed grade, which was going to include a fill that was going to make it higher. And then there was justification . 52 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage jc q Reporting Services, LLC 60 W al 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 provided in the letter as to why that fill and grading. was necessary in.order to provide the housing that was contemplated. MS. KAUTZ: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: My question is -- my legal question is is it -- what's your position with respect to whether or not the Town must accept the justification for the waiver? I understand in the law that we -- we shall grant you the waiver. My question is must we accept the justification for your waiver, and if we don't accept the justification, can we deny it or make a finding that no, it's not required to provide this level of density, and then you submit another request for waiver, or you do something else, whatever the consequences of that are, so do we need to take your word for it essentially? MS. KAUTZ: You would need to have substantial evidence before you that the waiver was not required to provide the density. If without that evidence, then the only way you can deny it is if there is a specific health and safety standard. I -- my co- Counsel,.Andy Faber, referred to the Wolmer decision. In that decision there was an argument by a resident that waiver was not required, that, you know, physically the projects could -- the housing could 53 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting U 1 0 15 8 Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 01015 have fit on the site by reducing the height of the ceilings. The ceilings were nine feet. By reducing the ceilings in the commercial area by -- in the commercial space by some amount, by getting . rid of the swimming pool, and I think by getting rid of some other amenity, and the court was very angry.about that assertion and basically said waivers must be granted, period -- period, for, you know, the -- physically preclude does not mean that you have to get rid of every amenity on the site. Physically preclude means that the project that's before you is physically precluded, you know, by whatever development standard is requested to be waived. So it's clear from that decision that cities are not able to let us say, you know, reduce 1,200 square foot units to 400 square foot units in order to say -- you know, and say that the project is not physically precluded. U So that's a very strong case from an Applicant's standpoint, because it really states that to find that a density development standard does not physically preclude the project. It's really the project that the Applicant submits. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: One more follow up is please, whoever is appropriate, tell me why this grading 54 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Report ng Services, LLC l E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is necessary to provide the housing. MS. KAUTZ: That's not mine. MS. BAKER: I actually might need to get our civil engineer up here, but let me start by saying when you look at the Specific Plan, it's sort of a menu of options of where you can put housing or where you can put commercial heights. Some things are very defined, and some things are not as defined. So when we are putting all of these things together throughout the process they evolved, obviously, as height evolved and public open space requirements, those sorts of things evolved, but if -- what we tried to do, although we have unlimited number of waivers that we could ask for, we tried to do was find the waivers that still got the intent of the Specific Plan with respect to the majority of all of these categories, height, FAR, in this case lot coverage, these sorts of open space. So if it's -- it's a push -pull. And what we found was that not only did we have real grading constraints on this property, which again my engineer can speak of, that made this one of the items that seemed like the most challenging to -- to achieve, and if we weren't able to achieve it, then we would suddenly start having to ask for waivers in other areas, such as 55 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage ^ Reporting Services, IL 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 010161 open space so you could get that -- you would have less open space, but maybe spread things out more to make it lower. So we could have said well, no, we don't really want to have 30 percent open space, that will be our waiver, but we did believe that it was such a critical portion of the conversation during the Specific Plan Advisory Committee meetings and in walking through this Town, we just felt that that -- there were some things we didn't feel like were appropriate compromises. So we landed on two, but I think that why we landed there was in part because of the constraints of grading on the site. MR. REAGAN: Good evening. Chris Reagan with MacKay and Somps Engineers. I think to answer this question you need to look at all the policies in the Specific Plan, of which we tried to maximize and comply with as many as possible in looking at the grading. There's several scenarios, and we've evaluated several different ones. We believe the project in front of you as proposed does maximize compliance with those objectives. Related to grading, one example is that there's a policy for circulation and connectivity for pedestrians. So when we looked at that, one thing we RR TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Y q Reporting Services, LLC L 4 c E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 took into account very seriously was the ADA accessibility of the site, trying to minimize slopes were possible, reduce steps were possible, so that the site in general is just more accessible to anyone, and that the look and the feel of the site doesn't feel odd where there's grade changes or elevations, drop offs and retaining walls. We wanted it to feel smooth. And so one of the critical points in looking at that is loss -- or, I'm sorry, where Neighborhood Street comes in off of Los Gatos Boulevard, anyone familiar with that site knows it drops in quite a bit, so we looked at that, and we wanted that street to come in. It's still -- it's in the seven percent range, and you could steepen that up and change the whole site, but we felt the seven percent was a good criteria to work from. So when you drop in at that point, it kind of sets a grade right in the middle of the site, and then we kind of filled in around that, looking at all the other variables that go into grading design, primary one being storm drain. A few different elements for storm drain are the water quality flood control and hydro modification, which is matching flow rates, pre - development and post - development flow rates. So we had to factor in all that grading and drainage design.to protect the site and 57 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage AJ' Reporting Uf c 9 Services, L C I meet the storm water quality regulations. \I 2 Next, which I already mentioned, was the ADA JJJJ 3 accessibility, minimizing slopes and steps. Everybody 4 had to look at the boundary conditions around the site. 5 There's existing development that's going to remain. We 6 wanted to match grade as close as possible without 7 having significant retaining walls where possible. 8 And then the fourth criteria we looked at was 9 an earthwork balance looking at the cut and fill, which 10 was mentioned the other day, and we can clarify the -- 11 the information that was provided there. So we looked 12 at an earthwork balance, how much cut is there, how much 13 fill is there, how much offhaul might there be. There's 14 certainly no import in this case, that was just wrong 15 information. 16 So we looked at that and, as efficiently as 17 possible, tried to keep the dirt onsite. That's a 18 criteria that most civil engineers would look at. So we 19 factor in -- factored in all of that criteria and came 20 up with the site design that we felt met all the 21 policies as best we could when balancing those different 22 competing interests. 23 So from based on that you can say that the site 24 is designed as efficiently as possible and then look at 25 placing the buildings on that site and then look at the 58 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING l` L Advantage Jq In Reporting U l O 1 6 3 Services, LLC i� 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 height and the density that comes from that. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Just a simple follow up. MAYOR SPECTOR: Hold on, Ms. Jensen. Is there a follow up to this one? 'Cause I wanted to go to Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: It's a very simple follow up. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, go ahead. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: There were comments that were raised on Tuesday night, I don't know if you were here, indicating that the fill was for the purpose of, instead of digging out underground utilities, just covering it up. Can you comment on that? MR. REAGAN: Certainly. And that was unfortunately just a misunderstanding. I can provide a diagram that will help. The diagram that was presented during the comment period was looking at actually something different than the grading analysis. What that diagram -- there is a different one that I'll talk about in just a moment. The diagram that was presented by the commenter compared the existing ground elevations out there today with what the proposed finished ground elevations 59 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 0101 #-1 tage nn 'Reporting Services, LLC I will be in the future. That's not the grading design.. 2 That's looking at the top of the pavement, the top of 3 the foundations, the top of the landscape. That's much 4 different than the grading. 5 The grading design looks at a rough grade 6 surface, which would be the building pads under the 7 foundations, the ground under the streets, underneath 8 the pavement and the rock underneath the landscaping. 9 And so the diagram here is going to be a -- 10 it's a little blurry to see, but if we can get it 11 focused in, it's going to show much more cut than fill, 12 and part of that is because there's a subterranean 13 garage that's going to generate a significant amount of 14 dirt at the affordable market hall building as well as 15 an underground hydro modification vault, storm water 16 vault, here that's 11 feet below ground. Significant 17 dirt's going to come out of those two elements. 18 So as you can see what's being highlighted here, 19 all these areas are in cut. And there's -- you can't 20 just look at it -- there's a depth to that as well, 21 right, so just because it's red or green doesn't mean 22 it's the same. Some of these red numbers are much 23 deeper cuts that you're going to generate much more 24 dirt. 25 So when you look at this earthwork balance,. 60 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING F l r vl��b'J Advantage �-A`pn Reporting Services, LLC 7 ` L c E 04 6� i 8 C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 which had been reviewed by Staff, there's going to be more dirt cut than filled and off hauled from the site. So it was just -- it was misinformation the other day. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr: Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor Spector. I think my question's kind of simple. It seems like we jumped sort of four steps into the detail on this, and I wanted to make sure that I remember the high level correctly. My understanding is all building heights have to be measured from pre -grade level, and you ended up asking for a waiver for one building because the post -grade forced it above the maximum height. Am I remembering this correctly? .MR. REAGAN: I think there may be two different criteria there. So from a grading perspective in general, the whole topography of the site's changing. And I believe we're asking for a waiver to allow the entire site to be measured from finish grade rather than existing grade. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: .Okay. Thank you. I understand better. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So two quick questions on this. With this map, can you point to where is the, 61 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Add vantage �Tq Reporting 1 6C) Services, LLC 1 I guess, the deepest el -- deepest part of the site? 2 Does that make sense? The lowest. Thank you. i 3 MR. REAGAN: Can I just walk up here and point? 4 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Yeah. 5 MR. REAGAN: So Lark Avenue is out here. The 6 topography drops all the way across the site to the 7 north. Los Gatos Boulevard's here obviously. It drops 8 in fairly steep and catches here. This drops in here 9 and catches here. So the challenge is right in this 10 area where Los -- I'm sorry, Neighborhood Street comes 11 into the site. 12 The controlling grade is Los Gatos Boulevard 13 creating the new intersection here that obviously we're 14 not going to change. So the roadway is dropping down, 15 and Neighborhood Street is dropping down to here. We 16 were looking at the ADA accessibility and trying not to 17 make this street too steep. So that sets the criteria 18 in the middle of the site, and then you start to work in 19 around that for all those other variables that I talked 20 about. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So -- I'm going to ask 22 you to be Vanna White. So you point to Neighborhood 23 Street, and you said at the end of that was the lowest 24 part? Is that -- 25 MR. REAGAN: And then it -- I'm sorry, then it 62 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Adw. STS Reporting Services, LLC U 7 L 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 continues to fall this way. Ultimately the drainage for the whole site and topography's going to continue north, and that would be northwest. Get that correct this time. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. MR. REAGAN: That direction. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So then the question is why didn't you site market hall, since you knew that was tallest building, on the lowest part so that it would bring the overall height even further down? MR. REAGAN: So essentially we did. The road drops in, and then it levels out to make all the accessibility work around the building so that there's doors that are able to come out to the street, right. So the lowest part of the site is -- lowest part of phase one is right in this vicinity. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. But -- okay. So maybe I need an architect. Why can't you place the building on the lowest site? MS. KRUGMEIER: We attended many of the Advisory Committee public meetings, and one of the comments that kept coming up was to put the tallest buildings towards the center of the site so that they would be screened from the freeway side, and they would be screened from the Los Gatos Boulevard side. So that 63 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting U 1 v 1 U i5 Services, LLC 1 is one of the principal reasons we did that, was 2 following that continuous discussion in the Advisory 3 Committee. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. And I see that's 5 the center, but again, I was there, too, and I remember 6 we talked about utilizing existing site conditions and 7 one -- I remember a lengthy discussion was putting the 8 height where the lowest part was to help absorb the 9 height impact. 10 MS. KRUGMEIER: Yeah. So just to clarify that, 11 even though the footprint of this building comes out to 12 here, the tall part starts back here. So there is lower 13 retail in front of it that screens it. 14 Similarly from the back side there is lower 15 retail that -- or lower housing now that screens it. As 16 Chris Reagan pointed out, the principal drop in the site 17 is between here and here, and then as he pointed out, 18 and maybe you can give numbers, it more or less levels 19 out even though there is a slope to drain. 20 MR. REAGAN: I think also to help clarify, it's 21 hard to see on this diagram, but this long straight line 22 right here continues across the site. That's a contour 23 elevation. It's essentially the lowest. It's all the 24 way across here, so the building is on the lowest part 25 of the site, it's just that it's.a bigger footprint. 64 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage U4C , Reporting Services, LLC Lo 1 L 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So we're talking about a few inches, maybe a foot across this whole distance right here from -- this contour to the next contour is way over here. So you're only talking about less than a foot of difference in existing ground elevation over this area. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Madam Mayor, I have two questions on storm water, or should -- MAYOR SPECTOR: Why don't you just go for it. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So there was -- can you clarify in which direction are you proposing your topography to carry your storm water. Because I -- one of your documents said northeast, you keep pointing northwest now. MR. REAGAN: Correct. The diagrams and the maps in the Specific Plan and the application are all correct that the water goes under the freeway toward Los Gatos Creek, We had a typo in one written narrative that indicated otherwise. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And that is the enlarged storm drain that we -- that we specified would have to be part of the Specific Plan to be enlarged? MR. REAGAN: Correct. It was installed with the previous improvements of the freeway.. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. And then my last 65 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �� � Reporting 0101 i i� Services, LLC I storm water question, I'm looking for the landscape 2 architect that pointed this out last time. The 3 landscaping plan overlaid with the storm water and in 4 Staff Report it says that they requested a composite 5 exhibit overlaying the landscape plan on the storm water 6 and infrastructure plans. Do you happen to have that? 7 MR. REAGAN: So it -- let me back up just for a 8 moment so I can maybe clarify the bigger picture issue 9 there, and then if a specific diagram's needed, we can 10 certainly provide it. 11 So composite plans, when you overlay utilities, 12 trees, all the competing interests, is something that 13 we've been looking at all along. The landscape 14 architect, the civil engineer, the building architects, 15 everyone needs to coordinate on that effort. Certain 16 things are required in the application that we've 17 reviewed with Town Staff, and so at a planning level 18 we've gone to the level of detail that is common for an 19 application like this. 20 There was no requirement to submit a composite 21 overlay with all of that information on it. It's 22 something that's very detailed typically to show exact 23 locations of the trunk of a tree. We're not quite 24 there. I mean, we can provide a plan level exhibit that 25 would show that, but we're not quite there where we're 66 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING BIM7I Advantage jc %q Reporting Services, LLC 60 1 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 siting trees to the nearest, you know, half a foot or so at this point. And so. the -- I think the -- give me just one more second. The big picture issue I think she was trying to point out was there may be some spots on the site where you could lose trees because there's not going to be room for them. One of them was along the freeway frontage, essentially along 17, with the onsite road and the sound wall, is there adequate space for tree planting in there. And the question is yes, that's been looked at, trees can fit in that pocket of landscaping that will be there. That certain element has changed over time, which may have been confusing for people that were reviewing the application, because earlier versions showed something different than the current version, but our response there is yes, there's adequate room for trees along that sound wall. And then she specifically also commented that through some of the paseos that where the buildings were, by the time you put the storm water pipes and the storm water bioretention cells, which are the treatment, the storm water treatment facilities, in there that you may not have room for the trees, well, there's at least 20 feet of space between these buildings. The storm 67 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING �1 r� Advantage $egosdng Services, LLC ill 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16' 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ®1®173 water pipes are only around 12 -inch pipes, so the storm water pipes aren't going to cause conflict between the buildings. And where the bioretention areas, they're not huge oversized facilities, they're relatively small facilities that get tucked certain locations, and you can still plant trees within the treatment area, so I don't think there's any conflict. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So real quick. Do you happen to have that map? Do you mind -- MR. REAGAN: Not going to be able to show it here. It's tough to show it to scale on an eight and half by 11 to illustrate here. We have a version that -- COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So I remember the large (inaudible) well adjacent to the freeway and, okay, so you addressed that. And then off of Lark Boulevard, there were several areas as well, and if you could -- yeah, I can see why you say that's difficult to understand. MR. REAGAN: It's tough to see on this scale for sure. This is Lark Avenue out here, street A coming in here. These lines are real tough to distinguish obviously. There's building here, right, so through 68 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 here is a paseo. Here's a storm water pipe. And then these dashed in kind of colored areas are the storm water treatment areas. And so we're trying to plant trees in here with all of that occurring. So what I'm. saying there's at least 20 feet of space between these buildings. The storm water pipe looks large, but it's actually like 12 inches compared to 20 feet. And these bioretention areas are tucked in around the buildings in various areas. If we want to plant trees in here, trees can be planted in those bioretention areas, treatment areas. The treatment areas aren't going preclude planting of trees. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Other questions? Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: And Mr. Reagan, you might be the person to answer this, and others may want to answer it as well, while I've got you up there talking about digging things. Several comments that we've received as the Council are inquiring as to why aren't we undergrounding garages or portions of the building, and so I'm not -- I don't know who the right person is to address that, but you might be the one to start. MR. REAGAN: That's more of a product type .• TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantages Reporting Ol�li4 S Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 010115 question, so . . . COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. MS. KRUGMEIER: Could you -- excuse.me. Could you please repeat the question. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: It's basically why isn't there - -.why aren't things undergrounded to make the building lower? MR. CAPOBRES: Well, as a matter of fact, there is -- the Town of Los. Gatos and I think the Specific Plan in common conversation throughout the years has been about kind of avoiding a sea of parking lots on the Boulevard and kind of hiding the parking. And so, as a matter of fact, on the market hall Eden building there is a parking structure, and that change came about during a pretty lengthy process of going back and forth with your consulting architect, Mr. Cannon, and it was not a cheap addition to make to provide additional underground parking, and so I can go through the parking structure. I'm a big karaoke fan by the way, I'm going to fall into that. So this is the parking structure here, Council Member. The way it works, and so this is the basement floor plan, so this is subterranean parking, and we have 130 stalls here. At the grade level we have another 64 parking stalls in the.parking structure, and 70 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �_A ,n Reporting Services, LLC ON 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 2 2 Z 2. 2, 2' 1 then on the level P2, 69 parking stalls. 2 So, you know, this was the underground parking 3 that was added during the review process with the 4 consulting architect. Do you want to talk.about the 5 rest of it? 6 MS. BAKER: So to note, that in the Specific 7 Plan there's no identified percentage or requirement for 8 underground parking. It's encouraged, and we did add it 9 and, as noted, the original application did not have any 0 underground parking, but the consulting architect and 1 Staff, through several rounds of comments, encouraged a 2 level of underground parking within the market hall, 3 which we achieved. 4 The other products, the other housing types 5 that are proposed are not typically an underground 6 parking type of housing. It's a different building 7 type, and because there's no standard or requirement or 3 objective criteria identifying the requirement for that, 3 we have at -grade parking for the remainder of the residential units. L COUNCIL MEMBER MAYOR SPECTOR: 3 your hand up. E COUNCIL MEMBER have a question I don't TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/ JENSEN: Thank you. Mr. Rennie, I think you had RENNIE: Thank you. Actually, I think anybody brought up, but -- 71 16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage rn Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17' 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0131 "1 MS. KRUGMEIER: on the parking undergro MAYOR SPECTOR: MS. KRUGMEIER: to a project. MAYOR SPECTOR: question was -- I'm sorry, I wanted to comment ended -- All right. -- as in general what that does Are you responding -- your MS. KRUGMEIER: The undergrounding -- MAYOR SPECTOR: Would you hold on just a minute. The question was why don't you have more underground parking so that you can have lower buildings? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: It wasn't limited to parking. I was just -- I think that some people had actually suggested living area as well underground, so if there's a comment that's an architectural comment about why you're not doing that, I would be very interested to hear it. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. If you're responding to that, that's fine. MS. KRUGMEIER: Thank you, Mayor. So in terms of undergrounding parking, what we heard in some of the comments was that we would like -- they would be interested in seeing, you know, coming down a ramp and having a parking garage so that we could lower 72 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Jq"J Reporting Services, LLC Ll l01% E c lc 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 everything. What that does, and I think we have a good example over at Aventino, is that it creates -- once you get that ramp down, which is about 120 feet long by 25 feet wide, then you're servicing a large area that becomes a mega block, and I'm sure this is going to come up later, but I think that that goes to the look and feel of Los Gatos, which is that as we get into larger scale blocks that are going to accommodate parking structure, it's going to go away from the look and feel of Los Gatos instead of towards the look and feel of Los Gatos. Why? Aside from the fact that it creates the mega block, is that it also creates a concrete podium on top of it. So even though we -- as we are right now, we can plant trees in the ground, in these Silva bioswales, in every place that we have -- every place that we have that's not building trees and plants can be planted in the ground and be healthy. If you create underground garages, then you're suddenly planting all your landscape on a raised planter or a berm or something that becomes what I'll call for now artificial instead of in the ground, and that limits what you can plant, how you can plant it'. It also goes to all of this thought about grading offhaul and the concerns.we heard on Tuesday 73 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Reporting 3erv4ces, LLLO i 1 about how much dirt's going to be taken off the site. 2 So you're going to start to take all this dirt off the 3 site, and that creates a condition that at least some of 4 your residents were concerned of. 5 And then the other thing that it does is that 6 it starts to limit the number of direct entries that you 7 can have to your units, because you're suddenly creating 8 this thing on top of this large garage. So we'll get to 9 it later, I'm sure, but we have -- every unit has a 10 direct entry on the street, and this is -- goes much 11 more to the look and feel of Los Gatos. 12 It -- what we have now on, other than the 13 senior housing, does not have elevators. Excuse me, 14 other than the senior housing and the eight to ten units 15 over one of the commercial buildings does not have 16 elevators. Again, this -- it is a more residential feel 17 to have direct entries to units. 18 And -- and then finally I wanted to talk a 19 little bit about the idea of cellars. So, yes, cellars 20 have been done for the last hundred years and are 21 certainly common in the United States, but they were 22 created for frigid climates where the foundations have 23 to go four to five feet underground regardless. 24 In temperate areas -- excuse me. In areas that 25 don't freeze in California, the building tradition has 74 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING (IIM79 u Advantage JC s,1 Reporting Services,LLLC W Lo lA 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 been slab on grade for everything up to about three stories. And the idea that there's -- these cellars came about 'cause well, okay, we have to go down four or five feet anyway, why don't we just build a partial story underground, and normally when you see a cellar, the first level above grade is lifted up so that those cellars can get some light. Well, that was before the era of housing community development and ADA, where the ground levels of all these dwelling units, their portions that are on the ground, have to be accessible. So cellars that lifted up even a couple of feet would require a 25 -foot ramp to get there. So there's a lot of things that are happening in three dimensions that we, as architects, have to solve that -- and I can spend more time talking about it if you're interested, but those are some of the general reasons why undergrounding becomes difficult within a density of about 20 to 25 units an acre. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? All right. Do we have any questions for the Applicant? Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So my question was back to the bioswell, and maybe it's the civil engineer, my understanding, and I could be wrong, is that you haven't used impervious -- you haven't used pervious hardscape materials, and typically the water district and, you TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING services; I.c 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17' 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 01 ®181 know, our -- our storm water, you know, guys say that . they don't like a lot of hardscape because it creates a lot of.runoff that goes to the Bay, creates more water for them to deal with, and it -- you know, it's generally not the right environmental solution. So I was curious, you've got so many bioswales, does that take the place of the need of having pervious materials? If I ask for pervious materials, would it sort of mess up your whole bioswell scheme? MR. REAGAN: So essentially there is a -- what people refer to as a toolbox of tools for storm water quality. Pervious payment is certainly one of those tools. Bioretention is a very common one with today's regulations. The nice thing about the bioretention is it's actually a landscape feature. In the case of what we're doing here, we're going to improve the -- by doing it the way we're doing it, we're going to improve the health of the trees and allow the trees to grow more. So there's other benefits to the bioretention, other benefits to the bioretention design, aside from storm water quality, because it's more of a landscape based feature. Pervious payment, water's just going to go through it and sit somewhere in the rock below it and 76 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage JC J Reporting Services, LLC ® 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23, 24 25 then be filtered off -- or kind of metered offsite. What we've done, we have the storm water vault underground that's going to hold water and meter it offsite, so it's essentially already holding the water and letting it meter out slowly to help avoid any impacts to the creek. _ So we're really doing both. And if we did pervious pavement, it just wouldn't help with the -- it wouldn't help with the treatment the way that the bioretention does. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So if I could just make sure I understand. So you basically collect the water off of the impervious materials into these bioswells, and then they get treated, and then eventually either the trees drink the water, or you take it off to the storm water; is that correct? MR. REAGAN: Storm water runoff will rain, hit the site, work its way.into these bioretention areas, filter through a special dirt. It then can either infiltrate into the ground, which is nice if the soil conditions allow for that, or it goes into what we call an underdrain, and there's a pipe under the bioretention areas where water can enter that at a slow rate and enter the normal storm drain system that goes down to a holding tank and then meters out to the creek to meet all of the.criteria. 77 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Reporting U 10 18 ; Kai' Services, LLC 1 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. I understand. 2 Thank you. 3 MAYOR SPECTOR: Other questions? Yes, 4 Miss Sayoc. 5 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Because this is -- 6 majority of it is going to be private land, who would be 7 responsible for monitoring the storm water quality? 8 Would that be -- would that be the Town, or would that 9 be the property owners? 10 MS. BAKER: Storm water would be managed by the 11 homeowner's association. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So all of these 13 bioswales, the bioretention pond, all of that would be 14 absorbed by the homeowner's association. 15 MS. BAKER: Correct. This would not be the 16 Town's burden. This is really common in developments 17 that have occurred after the storm water regulations 18 came into effect, because ultimately jurisdictions don't 19 necessarily want to bear that burden, so because we 20 already have a homeowners' association that will be 21 created for this project, it makes a lot of sense to 22 bundle that into that cost. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. And that would be 24 in perpetuity? 25 MS. BAKER: Correct. .... _. _ ............ ..... 78 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING a19183 Advantage Aq Repordng Services, LLC rl e c E E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 change -- COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So if apartments MS. BAKER: Correct. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Miss Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Changing direction to open space. And I think this is a legal question. One of the things that we asked the Town, we got the Town's response, and I was curious about your response or your position, is something that I haven't been familiar with before this project, which is the Quimby Act, which, as I understand it, is requiring that in order for the Town to ask for additional open space, that we need to make some kind of findings or determine that the project is going to create some conditions so that there's a nexus between the needed open space and what the project is doing, and I could get that -- be.getting that totally wrong, so I'd like to know if I am -- and what your position is on -- with.respect to whether or not the Town can require any additional open space here. .So, for example, if we heard from members of the public that we would like this to be less dense, we'd like it to be more spread out, the assumption being that that's going to create open space, and I want to know what the Applicant's position is.on whether that open 79 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage n� Reporting 010184 Services, LLC 1 space should -- whether that actually will create open 2 space and whether that's required or that it will just 3 get filled up with something else. 4 So it's kind of two questions. It's the Quimby 5 Act question, and do we really create open space or 6 just -- do we just create a blank lot that's going to be 7 filled with something else? 8 MR. FABER: Andy Faber. I think Don Capobres 9 wants to respond to the second part of your question. 10 The first part, the Quimby Act is a state law, and some 11 towns -- the state law allows cities to pass an 12 ordinance, and if the city passes what's called a Quimby 13 Act ordinance, then for new subdivisions the city can 14 require that for a subdivision of a certain size so many 15 acres of.land as open space must be provided by the 16 subdivider. 17 So some cities have Quimby Act ordinances and 18 some don't. For example, a city -- a Quimby Act 19 ordinance might have a standard in it that says if there 20 are going to be 1,000 residents, then three acres of 21 open space need to be supplied in some form either by 22 the subdivider or often by payment of in lieu fees which 23 the city then uses for its own park purposes. 24 In this case, Los Gatos doesn't have such a 25 ordinance. It doesn't have impact fees for park 80 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING I' Advantage `4 Services, LLC E 8 C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 development. The EIR for this project concluded that there were no open space impacts caused by the project, and thus, there was no need to provide open space over and above what the Specific Plan itself is providing, which is a required 30 percent. And of course, as you know, the project is providing more than 30 percent. I think Don may want to answer -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: May I ask a follow -up question of Mr. Faber before Mr. Capobres? MAYOR SPECTOR: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: You just said that this project, quote, creates no open space impacts, unquote. So I'm curious what you mean by that. Do you mean like we're going to build X number of houses and that means Y number of people are going to come to the park and the park is going to be overcrowded, or do you mean there's no open space impact whether you guys want more open space or not? I just want to know what you mean by that. MR. FABER: Well, I think what the EIR said is that there is no impact on the City's other open space resources, and there is open space available nearby for new residents of this project, and in addition, the project is providing its own open space, as has been mentioned, I think Wendi mentioned it two nights ago, at TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage ^ . Reporting Services, LLC 1 a level considerably higher than other new developments 2 in Los Gatos. 3 So overall there was no adverse impact on the 4 City's other open space, A, and B, the project itself is 5 providing its own internal open space, which -- in an 6 adequate amount, and of course as applied, or as 7 requested here, the actual project, phase one, provides 8 considerably more open space than the objective 9 requirement in the Specific Plan. 10 Does that answer your question? 11 MAYOR SPECTOR: Other questions? Mr. Rennie. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor 13 Spector. I'd like you to go through the open space a 14 little more on -- on Monday I requested a -- a walking 15 tour of the site to specifically look at open spaces and 16 what the views were, and, you know, typically we're 17 supposed to share that information, although I couldn't 18 bring it back in my mind and share it with the other 19 Council Members, so, you know, could you go through it 20 again for me. 21 MR. CAPOBRES: Council Member, do you want me 22 to go through the view corridor presentation or the open 23 space plan? 24 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Open space first, 25 please. 82 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING a1O181 Advantage JC q Report mg Services, LLC I AINLA to 1 L 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. CAPOBRES: Okay. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Madam Mayor? I'm sorry, Mr. Faber, he answered the first part of my question, but I didn't get the second part of my question answered. MR. FABER: I believe your question, if I may, I believe was a question of if additional open space was created somewhere, would that in fact lead to actual development of that, or would it really be open space, and then I think Don had actually talked it about the other night, but I thought he had -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: That may be incorporated in Mr. Rennie's question. I'm sorry, Mr. Rennie, but I wanted to make sure I got that answered. MR. CAPOBRES: So I think MAYOR SPECTOR: Are you answering Ms. Jensen's question or Mr. Rennie's or both? MR. CAPOBRES: I'm answering the question on the -- I think the functionality or the usability of the open space, which is what I understand the question to be. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Thank you. MR. CAPOBRES: So we're very excited about the open space program and, as we've stated quite often, the 83 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Lm Reporting 0 1 0 1 8 8 Services, L C 1 Specific Plan requires 30 percent open space. There's 2 different directions and development standards within -1 3 the Specific Plan that points you in a certain 4 direction. It does not require big play fields, for 5 example. It does suggest that that could be an 6 appropriate use of open space. 7 What we wanted to do, and what we're really 8 excited about is we're able to create a bit of a 9 meandering open space public realm program that's based 10 on the agrarian history of the site. And, you know, 11 we've got -- maybe go through the bigger pieces of 12 the -- to get of the usability side of it. 13 So, for example, just from a scale perspective, 14 and I do have kind of some problems with the names that 15 we've attributed to parks, and we'll do a better job at 16 that, but our main central park here that's located at 17 the central of the site, from the scale perspective for 18 folks who are looking at the screen or watching online, 19 that is the size of downtown's plaza. 20 And so as you continue on, what we've done with 21 the grand paseo, with the dog park, with this very 22 carefully designed open space treatment behind a 23 commercial building and the residential, is to create 24 different nodes that are connected with a heavily 25 landscaped paseo. 84 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING " 01018 Advantage Jq q Reporting Services, LLO (A L L G E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 You know, kind of picture yourself meandering. through an agrarian neighborhood with landscape that -- we can talk about drought issues as well, but with landscape that provides a softness that I think is not being picked up by the story poles and landing yourself in these very well sized and ample sized park areas to gather. They create an intimate feel, they create a -- you know, a feeling that -- that you want to enjoy it. Some of these are quite interesting that they're hidden, kind of entices you to find out what's kind of behind or through a paseo. And so, you know, it's been carefully designed. I can look at Paula or maybe the landscape architects to help me out here, but throughout that, what ties it together are the paseos, as well as the community gardens, and we've talked about that quite a bit. And so it's not just decorative community gardens, but they are intended so that people who live in the North 40, and we've gotten quite a bit of interest from folks, kind of gardeners, throughout the community to kind of walk around, try to find out what your neighbors are doing and folks in the North 40 are doing, we tie the open space together with commercial community gardens as well. We have one big large demonstration community W TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Repordng 13 G' Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 Fly (110191 garden, one on the roof top deck, and so again, we keep saying it's the number. We're working with Garden To Table in terms of making this really production oriented and not just ornamental. We planned a -- the estimate is about 14 and a half tons of fruits and vegetables can be created through this open space plan. The other thing that I think is really important from an objective standard perspective is the amount of this open space that's accessible to the public is in -- well in excess of what's required. 85 -- conservatively 85 percent of the open space program in this portion ,of the North 40 will be accessible to the public. And I'm not sure what the minimum requirement was, I think it's in the 20 percent range. And so other than some of the private real estate -- private open spaces that are associated with the residential program, the vast majority of this open space will be accessible to the public through public access easement. And Paula, if you want to add. MS. KRUGMEIER: Coming to any piece of land in any community with my planner's hat on, the first thing that I think about, and we think about as a team, is the public realm. And I wanted to circle.back to one of the 86 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Jc q Reporting Services, LLC W W 1� 1: l: 1: l� 1' li 1' li 1� 2( 2_ 2, 2: 24 2` Ll comments that someone said on Tuesday, which is the developers put the.buildings on first and then they did everything else, something I'm paraphrasing, however, it was really just the opposite. We really look very carefully at the public realm, what is that. That is the places where people can go, how you circulate, what you experience, what entries you see. How is that layered with a richness of landscape, street furniture and all of the various things that happen at the human scale, as well as at the vehicular scale. Try to put all that together in a layered approach that gives you a layering from public to private, from small to large, that people can really relate to. So I'm not going to reiterate all the things that Don said, but a lot of the thought that's gone into this public realm plan is a diversity like the diversity you find around Los Gatos with the muse you can find downtown or other paths that are heavily landscaped, streets that have parallel parking, layering of planting strips, street trees, shrub planting, and entry porches, entrances to shops, those kinds of things. So a lot of thought has been going into the public realm plan. That continues into the paseos that some of which are 25 feet tight,. and then you travel and Pl TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage rn�J1 Reporting services, LLC i 1 open into a larger space that's the size of a space you 2 can all relate to here downtown. 3 So if you have other questions, the landscape 4 architect and design team would be happy to address 5 them, but we are very, very committed to a very soft and 6 welcoming public realm. 7 MR. CAPOBRES: As you can tell, we -- you know, 8 the landscape architects and the civil engineers and the 9 architects, the public realm is kind of the focus of our 10 inspiration for the design of our application. 11 Having said that, as we said in our opening 12 remarks two nights ago, this is an area that is open for 13 discussion. We had a very productive conversation at 14 Conceptual Development Advisory Committee on walnut 15 trees and whether or not those were appropriate. We had 16 a very productive conversation with Historic 17 Preservation Committee, you know, a few months ago about 18 our interpretation of the historic and agricultural 19 piece of the site. 20 And while we're very, very proud and excited of 21 this public realm and open space program, you know,. 22 those are the types of things that we would have -- we 23 expect to have conversations about during this stage of 24 the process. And that is not a throw away comment. 25 These are very -- as we just said, this is the backbone 88 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING O10I93 Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC A 0 E i 8 C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of our application, and, you know, we're open to having the conversations about how those open spaces are programmed, if community gardens don't make sense, or if certain trees, orchard trees don't make sense, or how -- you know, how we program the space, that's conversation to -- to help improve the project, that's something that we'd be open to having. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I have a couple follow -ups. MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie, then Miss Sayoc. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Yeah, I have two follow -up questions. You made a comment about the community gardens and then immediately talked about production of all this fruit or vegetables that was going to go to the market hall or someplace. I think of a community garden as someplace where, you know, one of the -- the seniors live there -- well, they've got their own. Let's say somebody else that lives here can go and do their own planting and enjoy growing their own things. MR. CAPOBRES: Right. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Are they then supposed to give it to market hall? :• TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantagen� .�C�g 010194 s, Services, UC 1 MR. CAPOBRES: No. Not at all. Not at all. 2 You know, it's about -- you know, Zach Lewis 3 unfortunately couldn't be here today, he's traveling, 4 but it's about getting people excited about learning 5 about how their food's grown, you know, and how 6 difficult it is to grow food, and that's something 7 that's important to us. 8 Clearly we'd like residents to be able to take 9 that home to -- you know, to be used in their meal 10 preparation within their residence. However, you know, 11 we do have quite a few orchard trees in the common area. 12 We do have a commercial demonstration garden that's 13 quite significant towards the middle of the site. We do 14 have a rooftop garden on one of the commercial 15 buildings, and so our intention was, again, you know, 16 wherever we can, and obviously in concert with other 17 policies that we have to deal with, including drought 18 and things like that, wherever we can to not just make 19 it ornamental, we wanted to make it functioning. 20 That's why a conversation about walnut trees, I 21 know it sounds trivial, but it's not. It's about how do 22 you harvest the trees. And we have a couple Council 23 Members that have experience on walnut orchards, and 24 so -- but that does impact at the end of the day what 25 the -- what the North 40 looks like for a long time to 90 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Ui ®1�5 Advantage �—A 7n Reporting Services, LLC ON L 4 E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 come. So what that orchard treatment looks like on Lark is not a trivial thing, but those are things we're hoping to have conversations about, and we're very passionate about this topic. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: My second follow -up question, when I got the site tour from Miss Baker or somewhere in there, she mentioned to me that there's an HOA for all of this to make sure all of these things occur, that the fruit get harvested and so forth. She also mentioned to me there -- in one of the open spaces there was a wall where movies could be shown, and then I later thought of the question well, is this only for residents of this neighborhood, or can people come from, say, the other side of Lark or the other side of Los Gatos Boulevard to these movies. And what about community gardens, is it just for these people here, is there maybe going to be a -- you know, the wait list is priority here, but others can be on it? How is this going to work? MR. CAPOBRES: So we've designed it so that they're always in demand. The most dangerous thing about the community gardens is probably when they're not utilized or they -- they get -- they're not maintained. And so we did, working with -- you know, at the 01" TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING j t r Advantage (Apq Reporting �� i 1 96 Services, LLLC 1 beginning of the process we worked with Les Kishner, 2 local Los Gatan who's worked with the high school and 3 some of the schools here on the community gardens front, 4 and I kind of met with Les recently, and Les kind of 5 programmed out for us the appropriate number of 6 community gardens that would be available for the 7 general public that would be -- would include, for 8 example, existing residents in the North 40, but it 9 would not be exclusive to that. 10 We'd have -- we are working with -- so we 11 transitioned from kind of a high level planning program 12 with Les to a very detailed and operational oriented 13 consultancy with Zach Lewis at Garden To Table, and he 14 is working very hard to kind of put the operations 15 manual and all the policies in place. 16 It ultimately will reside with the residential 17 HOA, but the way that it works with the -- with the 18 commercial program is there will be reciprocal easements 19 where the commercial program will also have to 20 participate in some of those costs. 21 And so we're not quite there for in terms of how 22 many plots would be allotted to members of the HOA 23 versus members of the general community, but we just 24 want to make sure that they're heavily in demand, and 25 they're -- they're in great use.. 92 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING . 01019 "r W) Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 61 1 1 1 1 1 1. 1� 1' 1£ 1! 2( 2J 2< 2 24 2E 1 Interestingly enough, maybe because some of the 2 comments we made recently, there has been a lot of 3 interest in the community garden program, and I've had 4 several meetings just talking about that. And there's 5 different organizations that can -- that can really 6 participate, or community -wide organizations, and I'm 7 excited about trying to tie those organizations in with 8 the North 40. I'll try to keep my answers more succinct, Madam Mayor, so I do apologize. But the point is it's not a gated community, it's not exclusive to -- there's no fence around, there's no moat around, there's no wall around the North 40. The reason for some of these -- the grid pattern is to allow quite a bit of penetration into the -- into.this new neighborhood with a multimodal path with the -- you know, with the paseos, and we hope that folks from Highland Oaks comes over, we hope that folks from the other side of Los Gatos Boulevard come over. That's the plan. As Andrew Brenner (phonetic) mentioned the other day, market hall is intended to be for folks who can get there four or five days a week and buy things that might have been grown on the North 40, the produce that's been grown on the North 40. So we are trying to open up and tie into the existing fabric. 93 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advammiage ) Reporting Ua Services, LLC . . 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 v 010199 mike. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I will yield the MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Mr. Rennie. Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Thank you. So I want to follow on this theme. With -- I don't know if you have smaller pictures, smaller quadrants. I'd like to get a better sense of what the open space looks like. And so let's start with the -- what you're calling your central park. So my concern is you have this in the middle of your development. Realistically how many people will feel welcome to walk into a park that's surrounded by residential development? How many people will know it's open to the public? And I'll give a specific example. On the corner of Blossom Hill and -- gosh, what am I -- where old Swanson Ford was. There is a park there, and when that planned development went in, this was supposed to be for public use, and now it's fenced off, and I rarely see anyone in there. So how do you anticipate moving beyond so that the public at large understands they're welcome, and it's inviting place for them? MR. CAPOBRES: A, it starts with our philosophy, and I'll just leave it at that. The philosophy that we have is this is open -- this is a -- 94 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING I J Advantage u4q Reporting Services, LLC 6] V. S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an open neighborhood, not gated, as I stated. And that just permeates the entire design team and development team's psyche as we're trying to create openness. I don't know, Melissa, if you want to take on some of the programming of the size of -- you know, I will take a little bit of a stab on how -- how I would feel comfortable walking into a park that is surrounded by residential. It happens all the time, and it's some of frankly the best public open spaces I've ever experienced, you know, my travels. And some people won't -- might not like some of the examples that I give. They tend to be very urban, but, you know, public parks are surrounded by residential in some of the best places that we've traveled. I know a lot of people have traveled in Los Gatos. We share stories all the time as we're talking about this great public realm and this big public -- great public open space, and that is the beauty of kind of the philosophy of having kind of eyes, and that's why we go through great lengths with this design team to make sure the fronts of these doors and these fronts of these residential units are on the streets and on these public spaces to create, you know, a sense that, you know, these aren't going to be neglected. These are 95 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 7 I /�Aadvantage � , #edm�g j ` n U services, LLC i 1 going to be areas that feel secure. 2 But I think it really has to do with 3 dimensions, Melissa, or -- want to get into that? 4 MS. WILLMANN: Hi. I'm Melissa Willmann with 5 Van Dorn .Abed Landscape Architects. Part of the thing 6 that will make this space feel inviting is that it's 7 directly on the main street that goes through this 8 project. 9 In addition, when you look down through the 10 park, it'll be very visible as you look in, and it will 11 invite you in. You'll be able to see the community 12 gardens. You'll be able to see beyond the orchard 13 trees, and you'll be able to see some of the amenities 14 that will bring you into the park. �,. 15 Also, lighting will be a big part in this for 16 the evenings, and I think low lighting and bollard 17 lighting help a lot for these spaces.. And in addition, 18 towards the center of the space, we have so many 19 different seating opportunities and big and small 20 spaces. It's designed that way to have clusters of 21 people throughout the space. 22 Similarly, when you go into like a retail 23 store, if it's empty you don't -- you kind of walk by, 24 but when there's people in there and it's activated, it 25 draws more people in. So there's a lot of opportunities 96 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage jc q Repordu.g Services, LLC W LZ E F S 1C 11 1c 1? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 here for people to do different things; sit in the sun, ? sit in the shade. We're going to have hammocks in the 3 groves of trees. We're going to have a communal dining table. We're going to have some moveable furniture. And lots of variety. So I think that really helps to activate the space. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So I'm going to give you a scenario. A lot of discussion at the Planning Commission was on units 24, 25 and Lark Boulevard. MR. CAPOBRES: Right. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Why -- what was the thinking behind not putting the park there so that as you're going down -- I'm totally spacing out on my streets. Los Gatos Boulevard, it's right there -- MR. CAPOBRES: It's a small street. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: -- there's no -- there's no even question that this is open to the public. MS. BAKER: Well, it's actually really interesting, that space back there, it's pretty constrained fronting on a relatively busy road, but it also does drop down there, and behind the gas station in particular, there would -- there's a heavy slope in that area, so you end up being in a bit of a -- a bit of a 97 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting Services, LLC 1 hole, particularly once all of the grading and drainage 2 and so forth is completed. 3 So when we were considering just overall 4 ambience of where our park should be located, we didn't 5 believe that putting a space right on Los Gatos 6 Boulevard was necessarily the best choice. It wouldn't 7 be as quiet. It's just as accessible going through A 8 Street. It's much more pedestrian friendly to walk down 9 and to stop off in these various places. 10 So ultimately that -- that space, it just maybe 11 didn't create the right park like ambience that we were 12 trying to achieve. 13 MR. CAPOBRES: We're going to bump into each 14 other. We don't -- we unfortunately couldn't load up 15 the Power Point. You know, I was just reminded that a 16 lot of these parks are similar in scale, and to your 17 residential question, Vice Mayor, you know, Bachman Park 18 and other parks throughout town are surrounded by 19 residential and feel very open. 20 This is -- -- you know, contrast that with some 21 of the open space that you might see -- and I'm not 22 trying -- I'm not trying to disparage other projects, 23 but there are projects that feel like a project, like a 24 gated community, I think Aventino is a good one, even 25 from a -- although from a plan view, there looks like to 98 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING i Advantage Jq q Reporting Services, LLC G L c E C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be a meandering path. I don't think that feels very inviting to the members of the general public to go through, especially when you have gates around pools and things like that. And there's other examples of neighborhoods or communities that kind of have a bit more of an exclusive feel MS. KRUGMEIER: A quick comment on green spaces that are surrounded by dwelling units. There was a period in the seventies and eighties when these greenbelts were created through communities as this kind of ideal way that everyone could enjoy green space and, in fact, they were not used. Why is that? Because the entrance to the units were on the other side, and people's backyards face these things, so who would feel comfortable walking through people's backyards. So the idea of front and back and where you enter is very important to activating both the public streets and the parks and the paseos. So that's part of the design of the public realm, which may not be immediately visible just looking at the plan. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc, did you have another question you said? COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Yeah. So I know you 69 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN. COUNCIL MEETING Advantage `" . Rmporfing t o10�0� .� y: Services, LLC t• i 1 mentioned dog park as well. If you have a diagram of . 2 that and, again, is that open to the entire public? 3 MS. WILLMANN: Yes, I don't know if we have an 4 enlargement of that park, but yes, it will be open to 5 the public, yeah. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: What's the scale of 7 that? How large -- 8 MS. WILLMANN: It's one of the more intimate 9 open spaces. I believe it's around four, four or 4,500 10 square feet. Also, it attached to the multimodal path 11 and the trail, so there is lots of walking opportunities 12 from the park. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. Actually, I have 14 no -- I am not good with scale, so like -- 4 15 MAYOR SPECTOR: Can you give us a length by 16 width I think is what the Vice Mayor would like. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: I need to visualize 18 things. 19 MS. BAKER: And if you wanted to consider that 20 many residential lots on -- within the Town are about 21 eight to 10,000 square feet, imagine not having the 22 structure on it and having that space connected by 23 paseos and so forth. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: I see, okay, that 25 helps. 100 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 0100,3 Advantage (—A I Reporting Services, LLC W 60 1( 1] 1L l� 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss -- all right. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Just a couple t follow -ups I thought of. So the park, when you showed the picture, it didn't look like the multimodal path went by it. Is that not correct? MS. WILLMANN: I'm sorry, what I meant to say is there is a pathway that connects to the multimodal that's a regular pedestrian pathway from that park. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: To the dog park? MS. WILLMANN: Correct. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And what about the plaza size park? MS. WILLMANN: Correct. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And then my second question was now that I saw a picture of the park versus when I walked out there, I'm wondering if it's dog friendly. In Los Gatos we really like our dogs and being stuck in one little park is probably not going to work. Is this supposed to be dogs there only and nowhere else, or can dogs walk the rest of the area? Or, you know, is it accommodating for dogs to walk the rest of the area? MS. WILLMANN: Yes, the entire site is accommodating to dogs on leash, yeah. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. M TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage jrn S, Reporting U 1 �) Services, LLC Advantage 4 Reporting Services, LLLC 1 MAYOR SPECTOR: Other questions? 2 MR. CAPOBRES: Council -- or Vice Mayor Sayoc, 3 I don't -- you were asking for blowups of the public 4 space, and I don't think we answered that. Did you want 5 to go through? 6 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Just if you can give me 7 scales. I'm not as good as others about when you say 8 10,000 feet. I need to kind of have an idea of what 9 does that mean. A lot size, that makes sense to me. 10 MR. CAPOBRES: Right. What's that one? 9,000. 11 MS. BAKER: 10,000. 12 MR. CAPOBRES: So this is a 10,000 square foot 13 open space, and it's one we spent a lot of time on and 14 maybe underscores the amount of thought that went into 15 it. When we lost the move down building, not that you 16 ever approved it, when we lost the vertical mixed use 17 component, one of the challenges we had on this 18 particular part of the application was how do we -- 19 there's a back side to commercial retail and a front 20 side to residential and how do you resolve that 21 conflict. 22 And this one's an exciting one, and so the 23 front of the building, when you come into Neighborhood 24 Street and get to the point of A Street is right there, 25 and it's activated quite a bit in terms of what we can 102 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING At Advantage 4 Reporting Services, LLLC AN 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do on the street front front of that building. So that will clearly be the When you move to the north along North A Street, however, because the back -- because the other side of the building, you have to find a place for trash, you have to find a place for kitchens, you have to find a place for servicing a restaurant, and so we are challenged, because that would typically go on the back side, which is the front of the residential. We essentially twist the building right at the point. We have the servicing of this restaurant on the front with potentially a kitchen -- a chef's window that peeks in and sees the activity. We have trash being serviced on the front, and so, you know, we've kept the animation there, but on the back side of the building now we have this great interface where you can have nano doors and outside /indoor experience looking out into this 10,000 square foot open space and kind of seeing the activity that's going on on the residential side. So picture the dining room on the back side with a great -- kind of the great window or the opening nano walls. And so this is a bit of a rendering of how -- how that would feel, and you can see the number of people that are to scale, and it just created a really dynamic place that, again, we've seen in -- as 168x3 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 91 d oage JAS Reps Serviees; LLC i 1 we've done traveling, but we're really excited about how 2 this is a thoughtful way of finding a way to interface. 3 between residential and commercial. 4 The easy way to do this would have just been to 5 put the trash on the back, servicing on the back and put 6 a wall up so that the residential, you know, was 7 somewhat blocked by offensive uses, but we're really 8 thoughtful here, and we're really excited about kind of 9 how -- how this turned out. 10 So that's one example of what's going on with 11 these -- within these -- you know, within these pockets, 12 within these plazas and open spaces. This is the kind 13 of thought that's gone into each one of these spaces. 14 MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Mr. Rennie. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could change 16 subjects a little, but still in this area. Originally I 17 mentioned when I requested the walk of the site, we were 18 looking at view corridors, and we were looking at views 19 down roads. Could you go over those a little bit. 20 MS. BAKER: So we do -- we do have a Power 21 Point that was ready to go for view corridors. It was 22 such a critical component of the discussion at Planning 23 Commission that we prepared something to walk through. 24 If you'd like to see that. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: .It's probably -- yeah. 104 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �—A q Reporting Services, LLC Lo .(iA 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Well, at least I can compare it to what I saw physically. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. So tell me again what your question is, Mr. Rennie -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: It's about seeing view corridors, where.there's possible views of the hills, what are the views down the roads. These are set out in grids, so you look down a road, you have a view of something at the end usually. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. So we're looking at view corridors. MS. KRUGMEIER: Thank you. We looked at view corridors from two perspectives. One perspective is from the freeways, which has been an issue throughout the Advisory Committee, and then from within the site. First, looking at the freeway views, these were done by an independent group that was dealing with the EIR, so there are four views that are taken here. The image on the upper left is the plan as submitted in 2014, I believe it was, and -- or 2015, with move down building, which is no longer there, which was our kind of intermediate building between the row houses and cluster homes and the senior housing. The lower image is with the 35 foot height limit, what that looks like now.. And there's a key plan 105 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING old{ #gam Services, LLC 1 on each of these that shows you where the view is taken. 2 Thank you. 3 The next one we're moving southbound on Highway 4 17. I think the thing to focus on is the lower left 5 image, which is what the current submittal shows. 6 So the idea here is that the -- from this part 7 of Highway 17, the views of the hillsides are 8 unobstructed as they are currently and as they would be 9 with the proposed plan. 10 As you move south on Highway 17, beyond this 11 development, the views of the hills are actually blocked 12 by redwood trees and other landscaping, but as it is now 13 from the site this is what you would see, which I 14 believe shows that the hillsides are -- the ridgelines l' 15 and hillsides are still very visible. 16 The key plan, maybe Wendi could point out where 17 this is. This is rotating a little bit to the east, and 18 the upper one is the plan we no longer have. The lower 19 one is the proposed plan. 20 Ah, thank you. Okay. I am being corrected. 21 The upper one is what's allowed, and the lower one is 22 what we're proposing. 23 This one is rotating the view directly to the 24 east, and what we have here is that the hills actually 25 start on the right -hand side of the view, so looking 106 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 01U,11 'I Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC ki ?I li 1: 1: 1` 1� 1_ 1E 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 directly east, there are no hills because those are the 2 flat lands of northern Los Gatos, and the proposed view 3 is the one in the lower right -- lower left, excuse me. 4 Then we looked very carefully at what -- what 5 does it mean to have embracing the views in Los Gatos, 5 view corridors, whatever you'd like to call it. So 7 regardless of what it's called, we looked at two 3 options. One was -- or two locations as representative of what we see in other parts of Los Gatos. One is D for downtown and the other is N for neighborhood. In the downtown area, what we found is that as you look -- as you look around from North Santa Cruz Avenue, the many one -story buildings and two -story buildings block the views of the ridgelines. And the way that the ridgelines and hillsides are embraced within the Town of Los Gatos is typically down the street axes. So, for example, this is a cross street to North Santa Cruz Avenue, and you see very well that the ridgelines are -- are well framed by the street views. And this is lower intensity development than is permitted on the North 40. And so as we move southward on North Santa Cruz Avenue, the hillsides start to become more visible. Sometimes they're hidden by landscape, sometimes they're 107 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting U 1 ®u 1 9 Services, LLc 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hidden by buildings, and sometimes they're completely visible straight down the street. Embracing the hillsides is a dynamic thing. As you move through space, sometimes they're visible and sometimes they're not, due to landscape or buildings or other elements 01013 that may be there. Moving to the neighborhood option, it has been suggested from time to time that what would happen if we actually rotated the grid in the North 40 diagonally. I presume that's diagonally with respect to Los Gatos Boulevard. So we went and found Benedict Lane and some of its parallel streets and found that as you look down Benedict Lane that you had similar, even though your homes, your single family detached homes, this is not 20 units an acre, this is probably quarter -- excuse me, four units to the acre when you factor in the streets and whatnot. Where you have normal street landscaping that, again, these views were embraced as you look down the street, and as you're traveling through this, you get these wonderful axes straight down the street. Well, there is a crescent of hills around this part of the city -- by the way, I just wanted to mention there are other places you can go on Benedict Lane where you get quite full views of the hillsides, but there are places where there are no street trees. So really what 108 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING `, Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 0 c 1( 17 1L 1� 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 we were trying to look at are places that were 2 equivalent to the North 40. 3 So we plan to have street trees. I think the 9 desire is to have street trees, so those are the kinds i of places we were looking at. 3 And then perpendicular to the Benedict Lane, you can see hills in the opposite direction. This is towards the southwest. They're filtered by a lot of the mature foliage that's there. So again, embracing views is a dynamic thing. What does that mean for the North 40? We took four locations -- so I'm assuming that we're not going to talk about from the dwelling units, because from the dwelling units up on the second and third floor, you have sweeping views. There is no question about that. Maybe that is the advantage of having a second and third floor, and in the senior housing, even going a little higher. So those folks who live there are the people that have the least amount of resources will enjoy the best views. So where are we looking at the view from the public realm? How are we embracing them in the way that Los Gatos embraces the views? So we have five different locations here. One is looking straight southbound on our I TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING (� Advantage ^ Reporting t91 Qrj'1 l�' Services, LLC 1 street that is parallel to the freeway. So these are 2 photographs with the story poles up. So on the left 3 side you can see where the story poles are and looking 4 straight down, even though you're further away than 5 downtown by a couple of miles, looking on that same axis 6 as North Santa Cruz Avenue you get a similarly embraced 7 view. 8 This is parallel -- there's a key plan on the 9 upper right. So where you see the green line, that's 10 where you get a view of the hillside. Why can't I see 11 it right now? Because it has the existing walnut trees 12 in the way. As we create that street access, the street 13 trees, that view will be framed. As I mentioned, it's a 14 dynamic thing. As you move southbound on south A 15 Street, you get to the location of the orange view, and 16 the reason why you cannot see the hills from there is 17 that the Highland Oaks trees as Highland Oaks curves, 18 this curving street, and its street trees block the 19 view. 20 So what we're also finding is that where we 21 have straight streets, whether they be within the 22 North 40 or elsewhere in Los Gatos, typically that's 23 where you get the views. The curving streets tend to 24 block the views, and it's much more difficult to embrace 25 views with a curving street, because your street trees 110 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010315 Advantage �_X S Reporting Services, LLC W A U 1 1: l: 1: 1� lE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 curve in your view line. 2 The next area is from very close to the open 3 space, but looking over the community gardens. So when 4 you're in that area looking over the community gardens, 5 you are actually going to be able to see over the ridges 6 of existing office buildings on Los Gatos Boulevard. 7 So let's see if I can point them out here. 3 Those are the ridgelines of the existing buildings, so, you know, we can't push those down or anything, but we can certainly still very well see the ridgelines and enjoy them from the area around the community garden. And then we do have a diagonal street that's kind of the lead in to phase two, which goes that way, and -- anyway, this is the view. What we did was we drew over the story poles to show what that would look like as this kind of diagonal view corridor coming down, and the ridgeline's preserved above the -- above the two story retail. And then finally, there is potential -- this is talking about views from the second story. So again, You get sweeping views. I won't go into this too much, but the general concept is that in terms of the look and feel of Los Gatos and the way that Los Gatos frames and embraces view corridors, this is very much along the lines of what we see. 111 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING. Advantage ^s: gepardng 010 .�. 14ces, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2E N U1U17 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Follow -- I have a follow -up. MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you. So when I was -- I don't think you went over anything that looks west, and when I was out there, the first street from Lark that looks west, so it runs parallel, that one, yes, I noticed has views of Saratoga ridgelines that looked pretty nice, but my concern was you're going to plant a bunch of trees there that are going to block that view, correct? MS. KRUGMEIER: First of all, I'd just like to be sure I completely understand where you were on the site. So -- i COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Miss Baker is showing' the -- MS. KRUGMEIER: Okay, that street there. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- one I intend, yes. MS. KRUGMEIER: Okay. And then looking westward is -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Yes, so that's looking westward -- MS. KRUGMEIER: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- towards Saratoga. MS. KRUGMEIER: Yes. 112 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING I Aaivantage A Reporting Services, LLC 60 li 1: 1: 1: 14 1� 1E 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: You can see ridgeline, 2 there when I was out on the site. 3 MS. KRUGMEIER: Right. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: But there isn't the 5 65 -foot trees planted there that are screening the 5 highway. So I'm assuming that view is going to be gone, 7 so my question is can we remove some of the trees at the 3 end of that street so we preserve that view westward? 3 MS. KRUGMEIER: I think that's a great idea, l because the street trees will frame the view, and if there's actually just literally a cut out, as you mentioned, that would -- that would frame the view. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Could I ask Staff if that's a plausible -- MAYOR SPECTOR: Save that thought till after the discussion. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, sure. So if I could follow on another question. When you were talking about the - -.you showed the Lark Avenue views of the trees and how they covered most of the houses, so the question I think some people have is, you know, that's going to take forever for those trees to grow. What is the size of the tree when it goes in? When are they going to go in? At some point Ms. Baker told me it was going to take her four years to build all these houses 113 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage J( q Reporting Services, a Lc 1 if we approve this, so do the trees go in first, and do 2 we get four years of growth before, you know, we finish 3 building the site, and how tall are they going to be at 4 four years and six years and so forth? So I'd like to 5 understand when do we really get the view you tried to 6 show us? 7 MS. KRUGMEIER: I will ask our landscape 8 architects to elaborate on that. g COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you. 10 WOMAN: Just so I make sure I answer the 11 question correctly, could you please state it one more 12 time. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So we're planting a 14 screening of trees so that from the highway you won't be 15 able to see any of these houses. She showed some 16 pictures of what was allowed, and you could see some of 17 it and what was proposed, and you really couldn't see 18 any of it, and it was based on some trees that I don't 19 think are going to be the existing trees, you're 20 planting new trees. I think the plan says 65 foot -- 21 they're going to get to be 65 feet, which actually might 22 be too tall, but the question is when do we get to the 23 point that we're actually screening this? Do we have to 24 wait for our grandchildren or what? 25 WOMAN: Okay. So this is specifically along -- 114 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING lj , O I UM Advantage ��l )� Reporting Services, LLC (PI 1� l: 1: 1; 1L 1� lE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 so the -- the trees that we -- the state -- heights that 2 we are stating is generally ten years into the project 3 after -- ten to 15 years after the trees go in, which 4 is -- (inaudible) during when irrigation goes in, so 5 that's before the project opens, yes. 6 So ten..to 15 years is -- 7 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So what is ten to 15 3 year? Is that 65 feet, or that's when you took the 3 pictures? Or your -- your -- WOMAN: You want to speak? MS. WILLMANN: Yeah. MR. RENNIE: -- simulating pictures. MS. WILLMANN: So we're speaking specifically of the screen trees around the sound wall, correct? COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Yes. MS. WILLMANN: So in this package we did pick a tree from the Specific Plan tree list, which was appropriate for that space, which was the canary island pine. We are certainly open to looking at maybe a shorter evergreen narrow tree that could work there. But the one that we have proposed would go in at about 12 feet tall and yes, they can reach 50 to 65 feet. That's at their maturity, which is 30 years from now. But they would go in about 12 to 13 feet.tall. Now, again, if the comment is we're thinking 115 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Jcpq Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ®M?1 these trees may be too large, I'm certainly open to - -_ we have a couple other -- there's plenty of other trees we can look at that might be more appropriate that would be maybe 30 to 45 feet. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So if you put them in -- one last follow -up. If you put them in at 12 feet, how much are they growing per year so I can kind of guess coverage at -- MS. WILLMANN: Sure. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- you know, some number I like? MS. WILLMANN: Sure. So the first year you're not going to see much growth, but once they start getting established, you're looking at two feet a year, in a good year. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. MS. WILLMANN: You're welcome. MAYOR SPECTOR: Other questions? Miss Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I wanted to go back to my original open space question, if I could. What I was trying to get an answer to was not a description of the open space that's being proposed, but that several members of the community have commented to us about reducing the number of houses, moving them somewhere else, in order to lessen the density and intensity of 116 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING j Advantage (_ACpq Reporting Services, LLC Lo (PI 1 1 1: 1: 1� 1� 1F 1. 1 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 the project. The theory being that if houses are moved, 2 the space where the house used to be will be open. And 3 so I want to understand if that's -- if that would 4 actually be a result of moving housing, or whether there 5 would be some different result. 6 MR. CAPOBRES: That gets back to the Quimby 7 Act. So we believe -- well, we don't believe. We know B we've met the objective criteria of the Specific Plan 9 and exceeded it. The requirement's 30 percent. We're providing 39 percent. L And so if, for example, units were to be moved, ? we wouldn't be required under the Quimby Act and because we've already provided quite a bit of open space to backfill that -- or to keep that vacant for open space. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So, gosh, I wish I knew about the Quimby Act a while ago. Do you know what surrounding communities in our area have it and what -- what theirs happens to say, what percentage? Like -- MR. CAPOBRES: Sure. And maybe I'll look for Staff help too, or some of my other colleagues. I've experienced it directly in Mountain View. Not exactly a surrounding community, but similar. And so typically in communities that are 117 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage .4m Reporting 2 Services, rs,c 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2` challenged with public open space, it becomes a formula, and so it is about number of residential units with an estimate of population generated within those residential units, and then there is some type of factor applied that goes to an acreage number that's required to be either built within a development or in lieu fees 0102?3 paid into a park fee. MR. FABER: If I might elaborate for just a minute. That's correct. Some communities have Quimby Act fees, some don't. Some have park dedication fees that are not Quimby Act that might apply to non - subdivisions. And they're typically assessed the way Don mentioned. The city does a study. The study has to show a need for park space that is created by new development. It's kind of like traffic impact fees or other sorts of impact fees, and the state law, the Quimby Act particularly applies to subdivisions. There are also park fees that can apply. San Jose has both, for example. They have two ordinances that when you look at the code it's very confusing. They appear to be the same, but one of them is actually a Quimby Act ordinance that applies to subdivisions, and one applies to non - subdivisions, for example, an apartment building, which creates a need for open space because of new residents. 118 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING -�l Advantage s, ��,� q Reporting Services, LLC NIL W 1( 1: 1L 1: l� 1� lE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 So if the Town were to have such a thing, it 21 would do a study. The study would have to show a need 31 for open space created by new residents, and then an 4 appropriate calculation, just the way school fees and 5 other kinds of fees are calculated. As I say, the EIR 5 for this project, and for the Specific Plan actually, 7 shows no actual impact on open space, but if the Town wants to adopt such an ordinance in the future, it would do a study like that. MR. CAPOBRES: From my perspective, and so it also sometimes gets accompanied by design criteria specifically that you have to build a certain dimension, whether that be a minimum one acre contiguous or something like that. Just for future reference, it's helpful for a developer to know what the rules of the game are. And when you know what the open space requirement is for, you know, a proposed project, it just makes it easier, and you can specify what that has to look like, whether that be active use and things like that. You know, the nine -- the nine percent that we're over, again, some of these numbers get lost as to being kind of just small numbers, but just under two acres of open space above and beyond what's required by the Specific Plan. 119 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING // Advantage jc 1 Reporting Services, LLC 1 MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. 2 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank your Mayor 3 Spector. If I could -- this sort of leads into another 4 question I had. One of the concerns I've heard from 5 residents several times is sort of the intensity of 6 this, you know, it's built pretty much at the density 7 that we have -- if you built it at a lower density, we'd 8 have to -- we'd have to reject it because it wouldn't 9 meet our housing element, but there's so much of it, it 10 seems overwhelming, and some people have suggested well, 11 can we put some more open space in the middle of it, 12 which led me to wonder what is the intensity of that, 13 and I saw in the Staff Report it -- you know, in the 14 other -- we also have this policy that the Lark District 15 is supposed to be less intense, so I think the idea is, 16 you know, from Lark Avenue it's less intense than if you 17 get into the middle of it. 18 There was another piece to the question I'm 19 forgetting. Maybe I'll let you go ahead and start with 20 that. 21 MAYOR SPECTOR: What's the question? 22 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So the question is what 23 is -- what's the intensity.of.this? You know, people 24 have said well, let's fix this by putting a hole in the 25 middle, but -- oh, and I was going to say one of the 120 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 019225 I Advantage `,ACpq Reporting Services, LLC Lo 1 1 1: 1: 1� 1� lE 1; lE 15 2C 21 22 23 24 25 11 things that led me to asking this question was in the 2 Staff Report it says there's supposed to be 15 percent 3 of the Lark District at two -story high, which I consider 4 less intense, but the Staff Report says we get 29 5 percent. Well, you know, we called in the Plan for two 6 story around the edge. How are we getting 29 percent 7 now if just the edges are at two story? 3 MAYOR SPECTOR: Do you understand the question? MS. BAKER: Yes. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. L COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I'm sorry, it's long and rambling. MS. BAKER: Somehow I think so. If I don't, then please help me realize what you are looking for. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Give me an intensity map of the site. MS. BAKER: Right. So an intensity map, maybe if we want to put a picture back up. So the Lark District, the idea of intensity when we watched the proceedings of the both the Advisory Committee, Planning Commission and then ultimately the Town Council, who approved the Specific Plan, was that it's not only an intensity as far as density, it was intensity of uses, and vibrancy and activeness level, so as you move towards the transition, it goes from primarily 121 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage J Repe , Services, LLC I residential to a mix of residential and then to 2 primarily commercial slash retail. " 3 And so when we're looking at intensity in a 4 different way as far as open space, for example, 40 -- 5 the Lark District has 4.79 acres of open space and 6 Transition District has 3.043. 7 So that's a 42.5 percent amount of open space 8 for the Lark District versus 36.4 percent. So that's -- 9 let me do math really quick, but it's about an acre plus 10 more in the Lark District versus the Transition 11 District. There's one example. 12 We have opened up green space more. The lot 13 area coverage is also far lower. The lot coverage area 14 is allowed to be 50 percent. In the Lark District it's 15 29.4 percent, and in the Transition District it's 33.9 l' 16 percent, so it's about four percent higher lot coverage 17 in the Transition District. 18 So there's other ways of looking at intensity, 19 but the other way you can measure it perhaps is height. 20 Height, we have a requirement along Los Gatos Boulevard 21 and Lark to have 20 feet for the first -- 25 feet, excuse 22 me, for the first 50 feet and then also a 30 foot 23 setback on both those areas. So both of the commercial 24 and.the residential satisfy that component. 25 The Lark District, though, I think exactly for 122 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING UIM Advantage �_ACpq RePcrdng Services, LLC li L E 7 8 0 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that reason, was required to have a 15 percent of the overall residential units have two stories or two story components, and so the residential in the Lark District that we're proposing has almost double that at 29 percent, whereas when you go into the Transition District you do have, other than the buildings right on Los Gatos Boulevard, which are commercial, the residential buildings along there are three story, 35- foot -tall buildings, give or take several -- or I should say give several feet. They're never taller than 35 feet. So you don't have those same two -story elements within the Transition District on the residential side. Instead you have the three stories and then the residential above market hall. So it's very -- it does feel very different as you move towards the north, and we have not only satisfied the minimums, but gone in one -- with height we've almost included twice as much two -story elements in the Lark District as than what is required. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So I'm not sure that helped me very much. MS. BAKER: It was a lot of numbers. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: It was a lot of mind 123 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U I ) ') .^( Advantage ^ Reportiaig V +QJV lJ' Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 22 2-` 24 2` 01 91auS numbing numbers. MS. BAKER: Oh, dear. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I'm a little better with a visual, you know, like, you know, map of -- MS. BAKER: Sure. Well, we have a -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- of what the buildings are. MS. BAKER: -- a height diagram. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: You know, again, you keep saying you got 29 percent that are two story, but they aren't all at the -- at Lark Avenue, then. So where are they? MAYOR SPECTOR: Let me ask you, Mr. Rennie, is this what you're looking for? i MS. BAKER: Something like this? COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Yes. I'd like to understand from this, so we're saying at Lark, I'd say lower, lowest intensity on the left side of the map, and it looks like it's getting more intense as we move across. It's at a constant gradient. MS. BAKER: Correct. The colors are a little bit strange on here, but you can see along the perimeter that's - they should be light yellow, but they're light green on here. That there, as well as along the park, this community park, we thought it was really important 124 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING. Advantage _A(pq Reporting Services, LLC ` 1 ( L E 5 E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I�I that the community park was framed by two -story elements versus three story elements, sort of a step down, again, a lessening of intensity. Probably if we just wanted to meet that minimum 15 percent, those could be three story elements instead. But all along Lark and Los Gatos Boulevard, as well as around the park, and then you can also see there's other areas at the ends of each -- of the -- right there exactly, and also as you're along A Street, there are some two -story elements so that you really -- as you're walking down the street, you have a two -story component, maybe goes up to three stories back down to two stories, so there's a lot of variety. And we have an exhibit that we had shown in our presentation that we can bring back up that reflects that. And then as you go towards the Transition District, you can see that you primarily have the green components which are 35 feet, other than along Los Gatos Boulevard, which again has the 25 foot requirement. And then the mixed use building, the market hall and Eden building, has 45 feet primarily. There are some elements that go beyond 45 feet, including the elevator, I believe the stairs and a couple of roof peaks. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. 125 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reporting ®l 3 10 Services,;LLO i 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 1E 1E 11 1E 1� 2( 2: 2: 2: 2. 2. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I think I get it, thank f you. I'll give another Council Member . . . C MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Do we have further question? Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: One question I've heard through correspondence is lost opportunities with the site, and there are several things that are sited, such as a community center, recreational facilities. And I know that during Advisory Committee, Planning Comission and Council, there was lots of debate of what these open spaces should look like and what they should be programmed for. I think Mr. Capobres said that, you know, that's something that, you know, he'd like to hear more feedback on. f Realistically, a soccer field, a lacrosse field, something that the community can actually tangibly see and use. Is that anything that can be put on your site? MS. BAKER: We're trying to find -- identify the area in the Specific Plan that refers to open space, because it's actually really important. Yeah. The 2.5.3, Open Space Goals and Policies, "The Specific Plan S area shall encourage outdoor activity by integrating a variety of open spaces" -- and I do want to remind everyone we're talking about a portion of the site, so 126 u 010'31 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING l ,I :t Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 60 1( 1. 1<` l� 19 15 1 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 satisfying every single open space might not be possible 2 on half of the site, but -- "such as pocket parks, parks 3 and plazas, common gathering areas, courtyards, I pedestrian paseos, clubhouse and barbecue areas, 3 walkable streets lined with large shade trees and active i streetscape, landscape buffers and ample seating areas." 7 So -- and then it goes on to talk about some of 3 the other components, coffee shops, wine bars, and so forth where community members can gather based on unmet needs. So in our application we have pocket parks, parks and plazas, common gathering areas, courtyards, Pedestrian paseos, a barbecue area, walkable street lined treats -- streets, shade trees and active streetscape. The one missing component, and that is clubhouses, which maybe Don might want to talk about as far as community rooms. You can also find on 2.5.5 many suggestions on types of open spaces, plazas, paseos, pathways, perimeter buffer, orchard planting and common recreation areas. MR. CAPOBRES: So part of the programming for the market hall building, which is here, is, you know, doing quite a bit of research in terms of what market halls have turned in to be over the last decade plus as 127 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage JCD Reporting 3 IC(J Services, LLC W, i� L 4 E E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they've evolved. One of the good examples that we've seen that might have some applicability to the North 40 is The Shed in Healdsburg. And one of the things we like about The Shed in Healdsburg is it did have kind of in the mezzanine second floor space'a really interesting community gathering space, place where you could -- for example, the Kiwanis or Rotary could meet, where school could have its summit meetings. So that inspired us. The second thing that inspired us in kind of the rest of the touring we did on market halls is the ability to do a demonstration kitchen where local restaurants or chefs or, you know, people would want to be able to do, you know, clinics or, you know, lessons in terms of culinary arts. And so that drove us to kind of find a way to integrate into the market hall program both the community gathering space as well as a demonstration kitchen that would have catering. And so that's what is proposed here. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Mr. Rennie. .COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could change the subject a little bit. One of the concerns that I heard from some -- maybe -- did they say it, or I got e -mails anyway, was housing along Los Gatos Boulevard -- or not -- sorry. It's only 9:00 o'clock, I'm already 128 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A^ Reporting 0 19 2 3 3 Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16! 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 [�l�?34 making mistakes -- housing along Highway 17, and I looked in the EIR, and it talks about mitigation measures, and there's even sort of these high pollutant zone map on that they show in here and I'm trying to -- I'd like to understand have we achieved these mitigation measures? You know, it says things like the ground level outdoor residential yards that are not oriented to Los Gatos Boulevard side of the plan area shall be located close -- no closer than 100 feet from the State Route 17 right of way. So have we complied with all these mitigation measures? MS. BAKER: Staff could confirm that, to have an unbiased party, but yes, we have -- part of how we achieve this is -- it's, again; a little rough to see, but there are in the green zone -- in this green zone right here, this is where you have to satisfy this condition and this mitigation measure by interior ventilation systems. This is not something that's uncommon in the Bay Area the way that the winds blow. I'm not an air quality consultant, but learning a bit about it, the way the winds blow across freeways depending on which side of the freeway you're on, you can have air quality impacts, and the way that they measure these is 129 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11 /16.TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC W 141 t`N L 9 G lug 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 effectively if somebody were to sit out on the site 24 hours a day, on the site 24 hours a day outside breathing the air. That's not necessarily how you live in your home, but you could. So outdoor and indoor are a little bit different. But for the interior spaces, you can use ventilation systems. We use them frequently when we're nearby freeways. Sometimes impacts are greater, again, depending on the way the winds blow, they could go deeper into a property. All this was studied as part of the Specific Plan EIR, the mitigation measures were -- were discussed and implemented and ultimately approved. And all -- these units along here will all have those air filtration systems. It also means if you have those, you have to have the ability to close your windows and have air conditioning, but air conditioning is always in our units. So that's one component. The open space areas, there's -- I believe it refers to private open space areas in that particular mitigation measure. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: It talks about backyards. MS. BAKER: Correct. So in this area, there's one area of -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: .(Inaudible), yeah. 130 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage l.f In. Reporting G 0 9 _ •� Services, LLC 2 3 4 5 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 010 1 MS. BAKER: Yeah, of potential private open space, and that area we just would not put -- we could not put fences up and keep that space open so that it's more common open space, so the other option is that there actually things -- maybe Staff wants to address it as far as whether or not that -- we need to take down fences or if the current standards apply to those. But there's -- the only area that's impacted is right here on the site, and it's -- it's one private yard area. So you could remove the fence, have that go into the open - the common open space, that would be satisfied. COUNCIL MEMBER MAYOR SPECTOR: COUNCIL MEMBER subject questions. MAYOR SPECTOR: subjects right now. Ju Mr. Rennie. RENNIE: Okay, thank you. Mr. Rennie. Questions? RENNIE: I have different Okay. Well, we're not on st looking for questions. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. So let me switch gears here. I did that one. Another -- so another complaint that I heard was quality of materials. You know, I've heard that these were kind of poor quality tilt -up buildings. Can you address the -- you know, the quality of the construction, and.is it going to last and 131 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Jc q Reporting Services, LLC W t G E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so forth. MS. BAKER: I'll start off by saying that this is not our first community in Los Gatos, and so you could probably get a very good idea on the quality of craftsmanship that.Summerhill constructs by driving by one of our other communities, but here to speak I think is better, my architect to speak at least on the for sale condominiums, and then maybe Paul could speak to the commercial components. MR. THATCH: Good evening. I'm John Thatch from Dahlin Group. As far as materials, I think we're looking at a wide variety of materials and quality materials. We are looking at horizontal siding, vertical siding, things that go appropriately with the architecture. We're doing like 40 year comp roofs, so they're quality. We.'re looking at corrugated metal, but things that are going to last over time. And also, again, what Wendi mentioned, Summerhill is a very.quality builder as far as things that we do.with them and materials, they are first class. There will also be plaster, but were looking at a smoother plaster, a higher quality, not a heavy lace. So I think everything we're looking at is looking at very much,. you know, finesse of the details. It's 132 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage n Reporting Services, LLc 1 not -- it's not just materials, it's also the details,. 2 how we follow through with all the details I think that l 3 will really make this project come I think out really 4 well. .5 The other item I want to point out just as far 6 as materials is windows as far as quality. We are 7 trying to do a lot of windows as far as in the design, 8 bring a lot of indoor /outdoor quality. And again, I 9 think, like people mentioned, to me, you know, Los Gatos 10 is landscape, it's trees. How do we bring that inside 11 the architecture, everything that we're creating 12 outside. So . . . 13 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Question for you, sir. 14 MR. THATCH: Yes. 15 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Just a follow -up on 16 that a little. Before we get to the look and feel, I've 17 had comments or heard comments about how does your 18 architecture or the materials you're using reflect the 19 agrarian history of the site. Could you just give me an 20 explanation of what you've chosen and how you believe 21 that that reflects the agrarian history. 22 MR. THATCH: Well, part of it's just not 23 materials, part of it's the forms. I.think we look back 24 (inaudible) I think I mentioned the other just talking 25 about barn forms and different things that we could do, 133 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING fw ®1®1636 Advantage ATS Reporting Services, LLC f� 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 maybe doing a contemporary interpretation of that. How we're using metal corrugated accents in places, where we're using -- you know, sometimes it's horizontal or board and batt siding that's appropriate to barn or farmhouse architecture as far as what we're looking at. Looking at details as far as the corbels and wood details and different things that we're doing, but taking it maybe a little fresher contemporary look at those type of items that you would see I think in barn, farmhouse, agrarian architecture. MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. MS. BAKER: If I might also answer, under 3.3.6, Building Form and Articulation, specifically in the residential section of the Specific Plan, you can read items A through -- let's see, how far does it go? There we go, A through S, and agrarian architecture is not noted in this portion, so while we absolutely believe that it's something that's very important, it was not a requirement in the residential portion of the. Plan. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Other questions? Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So, .you know, I was starting -- I actually have a few on the look and the feel. That was one of the biggest complaints I've 134 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage jCp Repartimg Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 f�.li W (�1O�I heard, that this doesn't look and feel like Los Gatos, 'a it was I think number one from the Planning Commission on reasons for denial was it doesn't look and feel like Los Gatos. And one of the complaints that I've heard is it's -- it's cookie cutter, and Los Gatos is not cookie cutter, we're -- you know, we're eclectic, we're a variety of things. We -- you know, really what I think has happened is we've grown neighborhoods maybe where cookie cutter and grown organically different. Can you explain, you know, prove to me it's not cookie cutter. MR. CAPOBRES: Right. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And I think that means, you know, what are your variations of styles and heights and, you know, it's not the same building plunked down many times. MR. CAPOBRES: Right. I don't think we're going to get to look and feel yet on that answer to answer your question specifically on the different types . of elevations that are available. Since Wendi plugged Summerhill, I will plug Grosvenor as well. Grosvenor is a long -term hold company in terms of your question on materials, we tend to hold longer than our counterparts. I'm not saying a build it and flip strategy is a bad one, it'sJ ust not one that 135 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �_ATn Reporting Services, LLLc ,1 .1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Grosvenor implements. We tend to build it, not to say we never sell it, obviously we just sold Los Gatos Village Square. Not that we designed that, either, but we do build to hold for a long time, which typically means building to high quality -- a higher quality standard. Proud to stand by some of the projects that were identified during the public testimony and very proud of kind of the legacy that Grosvenor has from a design perspective as well. MAYOR SPECTOR: Does that respond to your question, Mr. Rennie? COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: That was the first question. I think he was responding to the first question. They haven't started responding to the second one yet. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, thank you. MR. THATCH: I think what we wanted to talk a little bit, like you were asking about, you know, getting that look and feel and describe some things. I think the first thing we wanted to talk about is we -- again, of course we do not think it's cookie cutter. We think there's a lot of variation as far as, you know, one story elements, two story, you know, masses three story masses and a lot of variation within that. And we put together sort of some exhibits showing 136 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage " , Repwting f" 10 . 2 Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 � DIUII some different areas, like on A Street that show, you know, two story, three story. There's some one story masses that are sort of pointed out by the arrows that you see here. So we think we -- we do have a lot of movement in the architecture as far as what happens. Also in the details, as far as roof overhangs, different pitch roofs and different things that happen in the architecture, that really creates I think something very dynamic that will work really well with the landscaping. And then, again, this is along Bennett Way, again, just looking at the different massings, the different forms, the different heights, you know, going flat roof, pitched roof, a lot of different things as far as creating movement in the architecture and just having, again, a lot of dynamics in what happens in the architecture. And this one again, this is looking actually down an alley, you know, but again, there's a lot of different variations as far as different things that happen in the roof, different things that happen in the massing. And one of the things I want to really point out that I think we talked briefly about is the garages in this community are hidden. They're in alleys. The 137 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING A4 Advantage 4q Reporting Services, LLC AS f� 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 FZ1! 25 main streets, the paseos, the garages are placed away from the public, away from the green areas. And again, this is looking down South A at the community park. But again, there's a lot of up and downs as far as variation that I don't think some of the renderings that we've given you show justice, but there's a lot of different things that happen in the architecture as far as materials and roofs and different massings. And again, along the park, you know, different things that happen with one -story elements, two -story elements, the gables, roof accents, massing and wall planes that I think we have a lot of variation. And again, want to point out the glass that we're doing that really created some really neat glass area that are going to work well inside and out. MS. WILLMANN: To transition to one of the things that we heard from the community was that when the story poles went up, there was kind of collective. community gasp, and if I were in.the community, I would probably do exactly the same thing. Orange netting is not attractive. It doesn't show anything of what John Thatch was showing in terms of the layering of roofs, porches, flat roofs, sloped roofs, that sort of thing. So the orange netting is just not attractive. 138 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage ACp^ Reporting lam' Services, I,LC 1 If we went down the street and tore down the 2 beckwith block and put up some orange netting in its 3 place, one could easily imagine that having lost that 4 texture and detail of the beckwith block and replacing 5 it with orange netting, no one would like it, and people 6 would be really up in arms. 7 So I think getting beyond that orange netting 8 and into the layering on the elevations in the detail 9 and the human scale that we put into it I think is -- is 10 really critical to going beyond what people are zooming 11 out and looking at as a cookie cutter. So again, I just 12 want to zoom in to what street level is going to be 13 like, what the experience is going to be in the public 14 realm, not from a satellite view. 15 MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you... Mr. Rennie. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could follow up -- 17 do you have more? 18 MS. KRUGMEIER: So anyway, just a few -- I want 19 to make that general.comment, because I can totally 20 understand why people are up in arms about the -- the 21 story poles. 22 So same points here. The Transition District 23 has the variety and eclectic look that you see in Los 24 Gatos. The materials are a variety from, let's see, 25 from the agrarian kind of natural wood. There's going 139 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage UAl s, q Reporting Services, LLLc W W rl*s 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1' 1. 1! 2( 2: 2, 2� 24 2� 1 to be new wood, there would be painted wood. We would 2 have stucco finishes. We would have exposed rafters 3 here. And in terms of the agrarian look, the buildings 4 that are closest to Los Gatos Boulevard, which I don't 5 think are in this particular series, are the most 6 agrarian looking. 7 So they're the ones that you would -- that 8 would be within your immediate view as you're on Los 9 Gatos Boulevard. So these are just some similar 0 responses to the idea of varied massing that you're not 1 going to see in the story poles. 2 MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? 3 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Yeah. I MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. i COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I'm curious if you i could put up this diagram, 5ST.2, which probably you'd 7 have to pull out of the book there. You know what, 3 it -- I'll have to say yes, it looks nice with all the 3 different height variation, but I'm really trying to I understand how many times, let's say, the same building is plunked down. It's 5ST.2, according to what's on the wall. It's easier than looking over my shoulder. So you know, this -- if this is a color map that I -- you know, I can see color makes some variation, but I'm trying to understand how many times 140 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage 'A( "0wor.wg Services, LLC ill 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 #11" M is the same building plunked down here? Like along the top, it looks like I have five cookies, for example, you( just made them different colors. Maybe those are big chocolate chip cookies, but -- you know, the kind you put in the whole pan size, but the other buildings here, you know, it's a maze of colors, but if I eliminate colors, how many times is -- you know, I can't see the numbers, but, you know, how many times are some of those buildings repeated? MR. THATCH: Right now what we have is basically -- if you look at -- again, the first five that you were talking about, there's three variations to those, and then there's color variations within that. So as far as we -- we have contemporary. We have more, again; the agrarian sort of barn influence, a farm house as far as the character as far as what we're doing as far as three different characters for that -- that building form. With that building form comes a lot of the different articulations as far as the roof, different heights, different things that would happen. It's not just always sort of -- the plans aren't exactly the same. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So they're not -- those five are really the same cookie,.then? 141 l .. TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage s, �`� q Reportiug Services, LLLc W 4011S Irl E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. THATCH: No. Well, two of them will be. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay.. MR. CAPOBRES: Well, so one of the challenges we have is we're -- we have to design -- your zoning requires and your housing element that we design to a minimum of 20 units per acre, right, and how do we get there. And we're barely at 20 units per acre, barely. And so you have to look at the examples of your other communities within Los Gatos that are 20 units per acre and compare them to what we try to achieve, which was smaller block sizes, which is less intense, and that is the balancing act that we have. And so this notion of meandering through meadows and, you know, creating kind of that park exit, we tried very hard to create that with varying the story heights along the paseos, but we still have to remember we have to design to a minimum of 20 units per acre. And I want to correct a statement that I made that Council Member Jensen asked me in terms of why we picked 20 units per acre, whether or not it was to hide behind by right density bonus. In specific -- maybe that wasn't the question you asked, but I remember answering that we wanted to take advantage of that -- I was corrected, in fact, your zoning requires zoning at a minimum 20 units per acre, and if you do not approve of 142 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Aa pving LLC 71 III 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18. 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a project at .a minimum -- I have it right here, Barbara -- 20 units per acre, then you would have to rezone for those units. And so that's the challenge we have. I'd like the design team to be able to kind of explain to you the difficulty of designing to that density and not having it look like a project and how we've achieved that. MR. THATCH: Don has a good point. I think you saw earlier, Tuesday, as far as what things -- you know, projects are 20 acres in town, and I think you saw there wasn't I think as much articulation as what we're doing. We really wanted to pay careful attention if we do have three, we do have two, we wanted to have variety as far as what we did in the massing and also the materials to fF create something that's richer and I think more fitting for the Town of Los Gatos. So I think that was the big point, but it does come with the density. It does come with, you know, two -- it does come with three stories as far as how you do something. So we, again, looked at how we could break it down in different ways, in different ways that also I think color, materials and everything could add to that richness. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I have some more, but let Council Woman Sayoc -- 143 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage , ��� q Reporting Services, LLC L 4 E E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So this is a similar question similar to the community park. The application through our community hearings now people have said what they want, so -- and community park, that looks nice, lounging, versus an active place with recreational facilities. I've heard that loud and clear. Another one is people want traditional architecture, and we can have a debate about what traditional is, whether it's the Mediterranean, whether it's Craftsman, but given the -- first -- two -part question. First, with the layout you have, is it possible to change the form of architecture so it's not all cookies? Maybe I want a cupcake there instead. So that's one. And then the second is you the 20 -- the density, and without other legalities, you can create, architect, something more what the if you weren't constricted by that correct? keep talking about getting into the I'm assuming as an community is wanting 20 unit.per acre, MR. THATCH: You have more flexibility, yes. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. 144 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage} Jas r�bpin • O.a 0 J Services, LLe 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. THATCH: We are doing 20 to the acre. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Right. But there's an implication that -- and we're going to get into this at a later time, but on your 20 acres you don't have to utilize that 20 units per acre completely. MR. THATCH: Well, part of what -- I mean, part of I think what happens as far as the density is I think somebody talked about if we do something that's lower, then suddenly we have to pop up higher, and I don't know if that's your -- if I'm answering that question right. We have to go higher density and, again, the architecture can get stiffer if that -- if that makes some sense. If we do something at a lower density, like I think what I'm hearing from you, to get back up to 20, we have to do something that's going to be denser than what we were proposing. MS. BAKER: I actually want to understand your question a little bit more. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So I'll be very direct. You do not have to solve our 270 with 20 acres, and so architecturally, if you had more flexibility, could you create more of this meandering height, open space that people are looking for? MS. BAKER: Well, I guess that there's a -- there's probably a legal answer to that, which I think 145 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 1 Advantage J q Reporting ' �• i t ! r• �� • Services, LLC li l: l: l: l� 1! li 1' 1F 1! 2( 2: 2, 2: 2� 2` go we've heard already, and then there's the architectural component of this, which John just addressed. The only -- your Specific Plan refers to very particular types of housing that is supposed to be on this property, and those types of housing -- I think I kind of rambled off last night, but the only -- the type of housing -- the only type of housing that is not a multi - family structure is cottage cluster, and the cottage cluster is a conditional use permit, and much like us coming in and asking for a rezoning, that is a very different ballgame than coming in and asking for architectural and site review and a tentative map. It's a legislative action. It would require a Specific Plan amendment that -- I mean, there's different -- tell me if I'm stepping out of bounds, attorneys. So -- so when I'm looking at the residential units and what it is that -- if I'm looking at the square footage, for example, there's 700,000 square feet of residential square footage that is available, and we're using 440,000 square feet. So we're neither anywhere near the maximum. We're not capping everything out. And we've kept it at that it says a minimum of 20 units per acre, however, we're just right above that. We could have proposed something at 25 units per acre with that type of TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING gqAdvantagey } ^'�}`�' Xtworting Services, LLC M1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15, 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 V guideline, so there's different -- I wanted to make sure I understood your question, but the guidelines are very specific as far as what housing types we're to use and the density that we should be developing at. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. Let me simplify it and break it down. So first of all, with the multi - family that you have, again going back to we hear traditional. Could you do different types -- MS. BAKER: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: -- within that? You can MS. BAKER: That's a different -- COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: -- Mediterranean. MS. BAKER: That is a different -- totally different question, so that's why I was trying to get clarification. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Absolutely. MS. BAKER: Yeah, thank you. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: But then -- but also I just want to point out the constraints that I'm hearing -- MS. BAKER: Yeah. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: You know what, that's for deliberation, I'll just wait. MR. CAPOBRES: I -- well., I think it is 147 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage STS Reporting Services, LLC W 01% 1Z 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 important, and so I want to answer -- have them answer the architecture question, but if you read the Specific Plan, it is a multi - family housing driven plan. And it specifically makes it harder to build lower density residential, because the lowest density residential unit type, or residential type, which is cottage cluster, requires additional layer of approvals. And so when you read that as a developer, the direction that you need to take is is that -- is that one. And again, look at the other multi - family program -- or communities within -- and I do really want to get to this, within the Town of Los Gatos, and I would -- I would say that the program that we've tried to develop is less intense looking than the other 22 unit -- or 20 unit per acre communities within Town. Now, the housing element was approved prior to the Specific Plan being adopted, and we all went -- we all had very frank conversations during that deliberation, and we participated in it. We are point blank, so -- you know, and ultimately we knew what we were all -- I would say -- I would hope we all knew what we were getting into when we said to the state that you had to approve -- you would have zoning at a minimum of 20 units per acre, and that is what we're going to deliver to the state, and that is what -- where we went .; TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage g rig Services, LLC 1I2 ill 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with it. And so -- and we can talk about when the North 40 was contemplated within the -- MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. Don, I'm going to cut you off there -- MR. CAPOBRES: Yeah. MAYOR SPECTOR: - because we're going way over the question. Miss Sayoc, any more questions? MS. BAKER: So the traditional -- so if you want to get more traditional, though, there are options, because there's -- like we talked about last night, there is the skin of the building, and I think that's exactly what we should be talking about at these meetings are these types of aesthetics and the -- how f these can be altered. Perhaps flat roofs are not as appealing, and there are things that we can do to accommodate that perhaps. The -- some of the particular -- maybe you want more types of different elevation introduced, for example, so that there's more diversity. You talked about cookie cutter and whether or not maybe instead of three out of the five being varied plus various colors, maybe we could introduce one -- another elevation type. Those are things where you can work within the building footprint, work within the existing Specific 149 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ,O�,OZa4 s;��►� . Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC W 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1' 1' 1'. 21 2: 2: 2: 2� 2` 1 Plan, but get a very different feel of what this project 2 ultimately looks like. And so after the Planning 3 Commission meeting we took a stab at some thoughts, 4 started drafting some things, and after the Town Council 5 meeting we sort of put some -- some ideas -- 6 MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. I'm going to.hold you 7 off now. I think you may be getting away from her 8 question, and she says yes, you are. 9 MS. BAKER: I'm sorry. I thought it was an 0 elevational question. 1 MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. 2 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: If I could clarify. So 3 just to summarize this whole -- yes, we can change I architectural elevations with what you have in the i multi - family type unit that you have. i MS. BAKER: Yes. There's nothing that would 7 prohibit that. 3 MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, thank you. Ms. Jensen. a COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. I just l wanted to go back, and I figured out what Mr. Capobres was talking about with my question, and I wanted to make sure that I got the answer that I thought I got last night and what I was trying to do for the record, which was to ask I heard comments from the public what happened to the cottage cluster,.and I was doing that in 150 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting . Services, LLC 1l2 AI 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 terms of objective standards, subjective standards, what was by right, what was not by right and the cottage cluster requires a CUP in the Lark District, hence would not be by right, therefore, there is no cottage cluster in the Lark District. Not that you're hiding behind anything, but that it's a CUP requirement, which takes it out of a by right objective standard, correct? MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor Spector. They actually were starting to lead where my -- maybe my last two questions were about changing the architectural. I've heard -- I think I only heard one person say they liked this -- what do we call this architecture, modern something or other? MS. BAKER: We have a variety, but there are some that are more contemporary and some -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Contemporary, okay. MS. BAKER: -- that are agrarian. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So the first place that I would be curious to change architecture is as this -- you know, as this neighborhood integrates into the rest of Los Gatos, it's really what do you see on the outside. So I would start with Lark Avenue, again looks like this contemporary that doesn't match things across the street. 151 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING DIQ'L�G .°r.t'r► Advantage �,Iln Reporting Services, LLC �0 t E j 8 C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So can I have -- what could I have instead on that, and then assuming it's -- you know, we keep a lot of the inside the same and -- you know, what can I have that still integrates? I want to be careful about requesting things, 'cause I -- you know, when I was -- before I was married I would take anybody's furniture and put it in my house, and my mom used to say my decorating style was early.Halloween, so I don't want to create early Halloween, but I want to find a way to, you know, so the -- yeah, this is a perfect picture. So the top line, it's hard to say that looks like Los Gatos, and that's what's going to be on Lark Avenue, and so the bottom line looks -- what is that Spanish and something? MS. BAKER: So obviously we -- to see this better, we took out all the orchard trees that are going . to be in front of these units, so this is -- -- this is .pretty stripped down, so what you're really going to see along Lark is a lot of orchard trees, but to get specific to the architecture, I think John can MR. THATCH: No, I think we looked at -- the two -story farms I think work really well with, you know, some Spanish. Look at Spanish eclectic, look at shingle style, look at Craftsman, I think different things, and that's what we've tried to deal with straight here. 152 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �� �prtin2 010 ]'a1 :.• w Services, LLC K? 10 11 12 14 15 16 17. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 �.• p10��8 These are the possibilities as far as things that we could look-at. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could follow up. So that looks much better, I think, these different options. One of the -- on the inside looks, particularly the flat roof row house, I don't like, and I've heard a lot of people say they don't like. Could I swap that out with Mediterranean or Spanish style or something like that, and it's still not become early Halloween in there? MR. THATCH: Well, I'll show you. So again, we took note of what we heard and went back and looked at it and what we could do with the row house, and we looked at we wanted to still do something Spanish, but have, you know, a little bit cleaner line, then I guess I'd say maybe you'd be inspired by Irving Gill, 1920's, you know, architect in California, but more of a Spanish but clean lines, still being able to do the glass and things that we want. So these are things that we looked at as far as variation from the contemporary. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And a couple follow -ups. So that's -- is that tile roof, then, on the bottom one? MR. THATCH: It would be a barrel tile roof, yes. 153 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING * j* Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC r -� D 1: 1: l: 1� 1` if l; 1E 1� 2C 21 22 23 24 25 1 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And I see the ? replacement, and I think it looks much more Los Gatos 3 like on the bottom. But if I put that next to the other I things in your development, will it stick out, or does 5 it fit in? 5 MR. THATCH: .Well, I. think what we would look at, as far as taking this route, we'd be careful about 3 how it works and how it works with landscape. I think, 1 again, we would look at how we plot it. I'd want to 1 make sure it doesn't stick out. I think we could plan it so it doesn't and how we work it into the design. But that would be, to be honest, would be our next task. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. I have one more on a different area. So that's what the other one looks like next to it. We can't see the top. MR. THATCH: So I think again, they -- part of it they come from sort of -- they're inspired, say, from the same sort of 1920's period, so I think they come from sort of the same time age as far as I think they could go really well together. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So one more interface question. I know the Planning Commission -- and I don't think we talked about it much -- had trouble with the two houses on Los Gatos Boulevard, so again, this is, you know, integrating into what's already there. We've 154 TRANSCRIPTION 08111116 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A ,Roorting • diO?59 .,a,.•� Services, LLC 1 got the gas station, and then you've added two houses, 2 and then you've got some building and then the Hirschmank 3 medical building. It looks -- and then you have a 4 restaurant, I think. It looks kind of funny to have two 5 houses there. And I know we made this rule you had to 6 be 25 foot on Los Gatos Boulevard, although everything 7 that's already there is at 35 feet. It feels like it 8 doesn't fit. It's residential mixed with commercial. 9 What can you do to fix that? 10 MS. BAKER: So I think it's kind of a two -part 11 question. Honestly, the residential is a permitted 12 uses -- use in the Specific Plan there, but I understand 13 as far as from the aesthetics and going down the 14 Boulevard, if you were to keep residential there as we 15 propose, then you could have taller windows make it look(' 16 a little more storefront along there. 17 It is two story, so it's not going to have a, 18 you know, large commercial presence feel, but there are 19 things that you can do with the windows and the 20 articulation that would make it feel much more 21 commercial, like what's next door. 22 But we did -- we've been working with 23 Mr. Hirschman, he's now a co- applicant of ours - for 24 some time, and there were some real challenges in that 25 area, and one of the first things we looked at after the 155 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING y Advant.ag _AcpS Rega ®flung ntozso ��rot services, LH.c W 1 1 1, l: 1 1! li 1' 1£ 1' 2( 2: 2 2 22 pla 1 Planning Commission was well, could this transition into 2 something more like live -work, where you actually get 3 sort of that combination, but live -work is a prohibited 4 land use in the Lark District, so with the commercial 5 constraints and with the constraint of live -work, and 6 then we went through the open space constraints, you are 7 guided towards certain places, but there is a way to 3 achieve a more storefront feel in a residential product. 3 We've done it in other locations which are transition locations. So there's opportunities there. L COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: All right. I think I ? have one last question -- 3 MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. l COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- on my -- my long list here. And I forgot to ask it. Back when we were i talking -- well, we were talking about the low income senior, and we have talked about losing the move down units because we lowered the height and they don't make sense for you to build them any more. Is there any other way to get units that are market rate that anybody could buy that would be more appealing to seniors? You know, something that's on a ground floor kind of thing or -- or maybe doesn't have stairs or something? MS. BAKER: Yeah. This one actually -- COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Or -- 156 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantages Reporting O lO 361 Serviees, Ltib i 1 MS. BAKER: This is something the Planning 2 Commission talked about a lot. I'm seeing where I have t 3 it in my stack of goodies here. So -- here we go. We 4 asked Dahlin the next day, we sort of felt a little bit 5 uncomfortable with the fact that we had designed units 6 and there weren't single story units within our 7 offering, and that's something that's always desirable. 8 We do have flats, so we have 20 second level 9 flats, 20 third level flats, and then Grosvenor has 10 eight units above the retail in the Transition District 11 that are elevator served. But they're -- we're trying 12 to work within existing footprints, and so we asked Don 13 what can we do, and in each one of those buildings, the 14 five buildings, that one next to Highway 17, that's -- 15 that's one of our more complicated puzzles as far as the 16 floor plans, but there's an opportunity on each -- on 17 those end -- end units -- on the interior end units to 18 actually create flats. 19 You can do it within the existing footprint, 20 you can make it so it's always one level and with one 21 bedroom, nice gracious open -- open great room and -- 22 and they're also along the paseo, so you have great 23 access right along -- into the paseo. And that could -- .24 if something -- if those architectural changes are 25 desired, if flats are desired, then we could add about 157 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING iPIP Advantage J In Reporting Services, LLC Advantage •. n 1 1;a �h Services, LLC 1 another ten flats. Does not impact our overall unit 2 count, which is important, because we are at just 20 3 units per acre. 4 So we're trying to come up with creative 5 solutions where we could get some more single level 6 living on the ground floor where mostly is actually 7 garage space currently in these units. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I didn't completely 9 understand where you're putting them. Are you talking 10 about the five big cookies on the top? 11 MR. THATCH: (Inaudible) around the corners of 12 those buildings. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Along seven. 14 MR. THATCH: (Inaudible.) 15 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So they're on those 16 units by the highway, but they're on the far side from 17 the highway. 18 MS. BAKER: That's correct. 19 MR. THATCH: (Inaudible.) 20 MS. BAKER: Sorry. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I think I'm out of 22 questions. 23 MAYOR SPECTOR:- All right. While Mr. Rennie is 24 looking at his notes, any other questions? Mr. Rennie. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: .I think that's it. 158 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage •. n 1 1;a �h Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 .. 010264 Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Well, thank you Applicants. We'll now close the public testimony. And thank you all for your questions and your answers. Before we get to the Council portion of this, I will just give an outline so you can think about it, 'cause I -- we are going to have, Miss Sayoc, a ten - minute break. So when we get back, we're going to begin with disclosures, and then we will go to questions .of Staff, and then we will go to Council discussion. Mr. Schultz, before we take a short break, what will you be looking for in -- as far as disclosures? MR. SCHULTZ: So as you know, this is a quasi . judicial hearing, so your decision must only be based on what's in the record, all the letters you've.received, all the testimony that you've heard. Our Town Code of Conduct does allow you to have ex parts communications, but you have to disclose those ex parte communications, and I know that can be difficult, because this application has been pending for a very long time. And so our Code of Conduct specifically talks about that you're supposed to disclose any information that you received that's not in the record, any information that you received that's not in the record that you are relying on on making the decision. 159 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Aq Advantage s, ��� q Reporting Services., LLC 10 e E 5 E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And the reason is that to make sure it's a fair hearing. If you received something when you were at the site that you believe is influencing your decision, you'll need to disclose that during that. But if you received nothing more that's in the record, and there's nothing outside influencing your decision, then there's nothing to disclose. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. All right. We will take a ten - minute break. (Whereupon, a recess was taken.) MAYOR SPECTOR: Calling the meeting back to order. Thank you. If everyone can please have a seat and quiet. As we discussed or noted prior to the break, the next item that the Council I must address are disclosures. Mr. Schultz has indicated to us what he expects, and so we'll start with Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I'm just going to say that since the application was filed, I have met with a large number of residents on multiple occasions. Met with the Applicants on multiple occasions and visited the site on multiple occasions. There is nothing that I have learned in any of those meetings that is not on the record. MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. ! TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING r Advantage . Regortiatg `,1 O' G 5 Services, T V o 1 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. Well, trying to 2 be thorough, I have had several incidental contacts I 3 think with the developers. Mr. Capobres lives in the 4 Almond Grove, two blocks from my house. I walk by his 5 house frequently to CB Hannigans. I walk my dog past 6 his house. Dog barks, but . . . 7 Also, the Applicants have been very active in 8 many things in Town, such as the LGUSD summits I've seen 9 them at. I know they're involved in -- you know, I 10 think they listed many things, lots of the commissions 11 and so forth, so lots of incidental contacts. I think I 12 recall one time giving Mr. Capobres a ride home after a 13 late night Council meeting. 14 Again, all incidental contacts where no -- no 15 discussions of the North 40, so no information at all 16 was obtained about the North 40, since we had no 17 discussions. 18 I had several requests to meet with the 19 Applicants, and again, it was all information that's all 20 in the public record. It was, you know, usually things 21 like well, did you see the Planning Commission result, 22 no, and they would review for me what -- what happened 23 and so forth. 24 On Monday of this week, I did request a walk of 25 the site, and I would say everything I learned from the 161 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 1 • OlOZ66 � i, �. � � i1 Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 11 W F� 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 walk of that I re -asked this evening so that everybody could get that information. I -- let's see. I've had -- there's been many conversations with members of the public, really no new information from what's been submitted in comments and e -mails that are in the public record. I recently this week did meet with a citizens group that they said they didn't have a name, and then I think they sort of made one up, I can't recall, they were the ones that did the survey. A few -- they gave me some information that I don't think was in the public record, but some of it doesn't seem to be correct, so I'm not sure how to -- how to -- you know, I'll say -- let's see, let me catch up with my notes. Before I go there, I'll just mention that I met with Bill Hirschman, also. Good thing I checked my notes. He's -- and I -- mostly the only thing I learned from him was that he was a co- applicant with seven houses, which is already in the public record, so no surprise there. And so the community group, they told me that our housing element wasn't going to be valid because we -- the plan doesn't meet the income level breakdown, or they -- the proposal doesn't mean the planned income level breakdown. I don't think that's in the public 162 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage 11 �y g�rtirmb 010261 Services, 1J C 1 record; but then I later found in the public record an 2 e -mail from Glen Cam -- Capono -- Caporra (phonetic), 3 which was in Attachment 15, page seven, which basically 4 said you don't have to meet your planned income 5 breakdown, you just have to plan for it. 6 I also -- let's see, what else did I learn? 7 Oh, they also suggested that ABAG would pay for the 8 lawsuit from this if we went that direction. And I 9 think it didn't get in public record, but the -- I 10 checked with Staff, and the response from the Town 11 Attorney was ABAG will not pay for the lawsuit, so I 12 don't think that's in public record, so for public 13 record, ABAG will not pay for the lawsuit. 14 And I think I covered everything. Trying to be 15 thorough. 16 MAYOR SPECTOR: Yes. All right. I've been 17 working on this application and the Specific Plan for 18 six years. I have met with the Applicant and the 19 community members throughout that time. I can say with 20 all honestly and candor that the hundreds, if not 21 thousands, of e -mails and input that we've received that 22 there is nothing that I learned verbally that I didn't 23 learn many times over by way of written communication. 24 The meetings with the people with whom I met 25 the most over the past six years.would be the Applicant, 163 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING k 010268 Advantage An Reporting Services, LLC W 1 1 1; 1: l� 1! li 1' 1f l� 2( 27 2� 2; 24 2` 1 answer number eight that we have, it talked about the -- 2 the fill being an element of the Applicant's design 3 element. So do I understand that if the design were 4 different there -- that amount of fill might not be necessary? b MR. MORLEY: So there's multiple elements to 7 the fill that the Applicant had provided as 3 justification for or reasoning why there's fill there. 3 Three -- three reasons specifically I think that I recorded, let's see, including storm water element, an L ADA element, and a design element, all attributed to the ? reasoning for the fill. 3 So whether or not -- we didn't try to disprove whether the fill was necessary or not. We simply i outlined the answer in that way. So if we were to -- i and the toughest one for us is the ADA element. In order to identify whether the project could work without -- with a different design, we would have to actually go through a design to prove that an ADA element would be successful without the fill in place. MAYOR SPECTOR: Are you able to tell us whether or not that amount of fill is necessary if the design element increases the fill above and beyond the ADA and the whatever you said, storm water? MR. MORLEY: I'm sorry, I don't think I follow 170 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING }� Advantage 1A Reporting 0 01 0 v % 5 SAlni'es, Li 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that question. MAYOR SPECTOR: You said that we -- there's a certain.amount of fill that's necessary for ADA, correct? And you also said I think for storm water, or I missed that. MR. MORLEY: That's correct. MAYOR SPECTOR: Do you know whether or not the design element increases the requisite fill above and beyond the ADA storm water mandates? MR. MORLEY: We don't know that. MAYOR SPECTOR: All right. Other questions? Miss Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: We can then ask all the questions that we want (inaudible)? Okay. All righty, then. So my first question is a follow -up to the Mayor's request with respect to our options, and the Mayor phrased it as, "approve with modifications that can be administered by Staff." And so by that I just wanted to make sure that it's on the record that a modification that amounts to a change to the Specific Plan is not something that can be administered by Staff, and if there was a change to the Specific Plan, that would require that this particular application be denied because we are supposed to evaluate this application per 171 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 1. Advantage Jq q Reporting Services, LLi W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the Specific Plan now in place, correct? MR. SCHULTZ: That's absolutely correct. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. And if -- and then I'm just going to jump to a litigation question, then I'm going to have some great litigation questions later. If there were a lawsuit and the Town -- let's imagine the Council makes a motion that or decides it wants to change the Specific Plan which results in a denial of this application and then there are lawsuits filed. Mr. Schultz, do you know, then, what the -- is there a mechanism, or under the law are proceedings on an application stayed or suspended pending a change in the Specific Plan while the court proceedings are going on, or could another application be filed under the challenge specific -- or the plan that the Town has indicated that it wants to change during that time? If that makes any sense. MR. SCHULTZ: I'm not sure, but I'll try to -- I'll try to rephrase it and say I think your -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Does everything stop, or does -- or can -- MR. SCHULTZ: No, it doesn't -- it doesn't -- it doesn't stop. If the Applicant in this case sued the Town, if the project was denied or it was approved with 172 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage , (') V Rfpurapg 01 U7 ? services,JLLC 1 modifications that they believed you did not have the 2 legal right to do, they would have the ability to file a 3 writ. That doesn't stop any other application coming in 4 under our Specific Plan, and that doesn't stop you from 5 making amendments to the Specific.Plan. 6 That lawsuit moves forward, and if they're 7 successful on that lawsuit, and then they would be able 8 to come back, though, and it would be under the original 9 Specific Plan. You wouldn't then come back if they're 10 successful in their lawsuit and us be able to say when 11 they came back in and said cops, we've changed our 12 Specific Plan, you now have to follow that. They would 13 still be under the old rules. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: And pending the r 15 resolution of the lawsuit, other applications could be 16 filed under the existing plan? 17 MR. SCHULTZ: Correct. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. All right. 19 Shifting gears to the -- 20 MAYOR SPECTOR: Before you shift gears, let me 21 follow up on one of these, because I have discussed this 22 with Mr. Schultz. But if there were a pending lawsuit, 23 and if while the lawsuit were pending we have -- we 24 changed the Specific Plan, a new Applicant would have to 25 comply with that revised Specific Plan; is that correct? - 173 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage K. ��� q Reporting • OlOZ78 Services, LLC Lo 11 1: 1: 1: 1� 1� I 17 16 1°. 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 MR. SCHULTZ: That's correct. 2 MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. Sorry, Miss Jensen. 3 Back to you. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Now I'm going to beat a i dead horse. However, if the -- a lawsuit was filed 5 challenging the Council's decision to change the plan which resulted in a denial of this application, a court 3 could say you're wrong and enforce the -- this version of the plan and the application, correct? > MR. SCHULTZ: Correct. 'COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. MR. SCHULTZ: It would fall under the old Specific Plan. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. Now I'm going to go to the replacement unit issue that we talked about with the density bonus. The Applicant took the position that rental to rental is the only replacement that is required, and that an age restriction or a size and type restriction is -- has not been determined and is not relevant to that question. What's the Town's position? MR. SCHULTZ: So I start with what I said earlier is I believe the original application makes that section inapplicable. You certainly could state that many of the statutes say it's when it's deemed complete, 174 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING i J s ryry /Advantage A(f,�n '#j f6 timg '' UIOJIJ P-�ll�' i/f 4 Services, UC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and, therefore, the application wasn't deemed complete. until 2016, and, therefore, it is applicable. So if you get to that, the next step, if you win your first argument and it actually is applicable, you know, it's a very novel issue that's been presented. I wasn't aware of this type of the type and size and what was said. It hasn't been defined. I was also privy to the e -mail that the legislation's trying to clean this up. So that's going to be a judge to decide whether this type and size is equal to the type and size. You heard the Applicant's argument that it's rental to rental. And size -wise, it's actually -- some of the units are exactly close. I mean, that's a complete analysis as exactly what's out there. And we're not even at the issue of knowing who's out there and what their income levels are. So I took a more just top of the line approach of it and just said there's 49 being developed. There's 16 out there, so they certainly are meeting that replacement and way beyond that and felt at that level they met that Code section. But again, there's no litigation on this. It hasn't been interpreted. State's trying to wrestle with the exact same requirements. So I can't make a legal argument there on what the outcome would be. 175 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ! Advantage Y q Reporting Services, LLC K W 1 1'. 1; 1: 1� 1� lE l; lE l� 2C 21 22 23 24 25 1 MS. PREVETTI: Madam -- 2 MR. SCHULTZ: That's up to the Town to kind of 3 look at and decide. 4 MS. PREVETTI: If I may, Madam Mayor. I think 5 size is size, square footage, et cetera. So I imagine 6 that definition could be fairly easy to determine. 7 In terms of type, typically it's housing type, 3 so is it a single family home, is it a multi - family, et 3 cetera. Rental is really more of a tenure. It's an ownership type. So it would be -- it would be interesting if the legislature were to say tenure ownership to ownership or rental to rental. So I think t typically type means the form of a building. But we'll see what the legislature comes up with. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Follow up to that is -- thank you, Ms. Prevetti, that's very helpful, but when I'm thinking about type, I'm also thinking about everybody can live there versus only a senior can live there. So is that a question that's ultimately, if this goes to litigation, it has to be decided by a court? MS. PREVETTI: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. MR. SCHULTZ: Well, with regards to the type 176 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage J Repbrddng OI O,;g i S Services, LLC 1 that live there, you know, we define -- we define 2 families in our code is it doesn't have to be with i 3 children. I think that was part of the argument that 4 was made, that, you know it's persons and families. We 5 define families as a household of more than two is how 6 we define it. They don't have to be related, they don't 7 have to be married, and so the senior complex that's in 8 this proposal certainly is also available to families of 9 more than a -- a household more than one. 10 So I think they meet that type. It's that issue 11 that Ms. Prevetti brings up is what type is -- 'cause 12 you would be going from single family homes that are out 13 there to a small apartment unit. 14 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: This is something that W 15 I didn't ask the Applicant, it's on page six of our 16 Staff Report. It's about the offsite traffic 17 improvements. And it came up on Tuesday, the question 18 of well, are those -- are they improving something that 19 they're causing, or what is this list of projects that 20 we have out there, and I just wanted to get on the 21 record a thumbnail sketch of the list of projects that 22 we have that are attached to our traffic impact 23 mitigation fee ordinance,.because we have to have that, 24 as I understand it, for law, so that we can have a nexus 25 in order to collect those fees at all. 177 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING O1O.M - Advantage Aq Reporting 3 Services, LLC Ll t 1( 1: 1� 1. 14 1� lE 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 So I just want there to be a on the record ? explanation of how those projects are required and 3 selected versus what the EIR requires as mitigation -- ! traffic mitigation for this project. If that makes i sense. i MR. MORLEY: Certainly. And'I'll put a document up on the overhead, which is the entire list of projects. And as you can see on the left -hand column on this particular -- particular list, there's a source of where these projects have developed from. So the -- this is what -- what feeds into the list of projects. These are town identified projects that were included within the study, the traffic impact study, and together sum up and identify what the total need is for the Town in terms of capital projects and an element of those projects that is associated with growth, and the growth element is the part that the impact fees can be collected for and can pay for. So with the project we would typically collect -- collect the fees based on the number of trips that are generated and the amount of impact fee that is -- is required according to our fee schedule. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Yeah, I do. Thank you, Mr. Morley. Not on this topic. I just wanted to, TRANSCRIPTION 08111116 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Yvaulage Services, LLC 178 1 again, compare the Staff's interpretation or position 2 with respect to the Quimby Act open space requirements 3 versus what the Applicant has told us. 4 MR. SCHULTZ: I think we're on the same page 5 there. We don't have a Quimby Act fee. They've met the 6 requirements as staff has interpreted. They've met the 7 objective standard for the amount of open space, and we 8 learned -- I learned at the break is the reason why we 9 don't have a Quimby Act ordinance is that there is a 10 formula that you use that you have to show that you 11 don't have enough acreage per population and that 12 we're -- we don't meet that when it was done quite some 13 time ago. We could redo that study for future, but we 14 don't have it here. 15 And I would also say if we did have it in place 16 for this, the outcome probably would have been since we 17 had a Specific Plan, we had the exact amount.of open 18 space that was required, the Quimby Act would have just 19 been an extra fee you would have been able to collect. 20 You wouldn't have been able to mandate more open space, 21 because the Specific Plan is supposed to be your 22 document that should -- tells him exactly, or her, 23 exactly how much open space is going to be there. 24 So the Quimby Act, if we could have been able 25 to do it, would have been more of just a in lieu fee 179 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Ll Advantage A Reporting Services, LLC - Lj 1� l: 1: 1: 1� 1� lE li 18 1� 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 they would have paid on top of their open space. 2 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Follow up to that. 3 When you say that the General Plan concludes that Los 4 Gatos has the acreage required, quote /unquote, I assume 5 you mean parks, Oak Meadow Park, (inaudible) park, 5 whatever it might be, versus a planned development that 7 doesn't have any open space in it or, you know, a 3 subdivision that doesn't have any open space. a MR. SCHULTZ: It's public open space, publicly owned space, the Vasona Park, and that is what -- would all go into that calculations. And I think it's -- I don't want to misquote, but I thought it was 3.5 acres per 1,000 people. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. So Los Gatos would have to show, in order to require additional open space or fee, for example, for this project or whatever it might be under the Quimby Act -- MR. SCHULTZ: Any other subdivision. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- that we did not meet that ratio, that we didn't have enough -- MR. SCHULTZ: Right. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- and we've already got a General Plan that says we do. MR. SCHULTZ: Exactly. I think we actually did the study at some point in time. We'd have to follow 180 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage .rRo s re• • 01035 "��': -'' °_ Services, LLC i 1 up. It might have been the eighties or the nineties we 2 did that study to see if we could enact a Quimby Act, 3 and we didn't meet the definition from the state. It's 4 not.from the General Plan. It's the state -- 5 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. 6 MR. SCHULTZ: -- that says when you can enact 7 it. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. And then 9 finally -- well, not finally. Actually, two more. Back 10 to -- the question of the requested waiver and whether 11 the Town has to accept the Applicant's justification for 12 the requested waiver, two questions on that. 13 On the last page of our Staff Report it's -- 14 we're told that if we refuse to waive or reduce 15 development standards, we must support them by one or 16 more findings similar to those available for design or 17 request for an incentive. I don't know what those are, 18 unless they're the same as the density bonus, specific 19 adverse impact on public health, safety or welfare, 20 illegal, et cetera. 21 MR. SCHULTZ: Okay. I thought we had them in 22 there, but I'll find those for you, the exact ones and 23 the language we would need, but to paraphrase, you need 24 to have substantial evidence in the record that the 25 request for the waiver wasn't needed to allow for the -- 181 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reporting Services, L.0 Advantage ep ®r4 U1O387S Services, LLC 1 the density that they were requesting. 2 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: And -- 3 MR. SCHULTZ: Is that it right there? 4 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: It's there? 5 MR. SCHULTZ: Joel will take it. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I believe you. 7 MR. PAULSON: It's on page nine. Just below 8 the second bullet. It talks about waiver -- 9 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Very limited 10 circumstances? 11 MR. PAULSON: Yeah, if you continue on there. 12 If it would have a specific adverse impact upon health, 13 safety or physical environment, or it would have an ® 14 adverse impact on a property listed in the California 15 Register of Historical Resources, and -- 16 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: And that's -- those are 17 the findings that are under the state Density Bonus Law, 18 correct? 19 MR. PAULSON: Correct. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. Then the 21 correlation to that question is if the Council were to 22 conclude that it did not accept the justification for 23 that waiver requested, I'm assuming that then what 24 happens is -- well, I don't know what happens. Does -- 25 is -- does that result in a denial, or does that result 182 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage ep ®r4 U1O387S Services, LLC 1 in the Applicant coming back and asking for different 2 waiver? At this point in the proceeding, what's the 3 result of that? 4 MR. SCHULTZ: The Applicant could ask for a 5 different waiver or even a concession or incentives, 6 'cause they haven't even used those. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay: 8 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Jensen, let me follow up. 9 there. How do -- how would that work, as a practical 10 matter, with the September 7th deadline that the 11 Applicant has -- that -- that is required under the 12 Applicant's position? 13 MR. SCHULTZ: I'm not sure. I don't have an 14 answer for you right off the top. I guess I'm not at 15 that -- if you can get to the -- you know, the 16 definition under the waiver showing from substantial 17 evidence that it's physically -- the effect of 18 physically precluding the construction of the housing 19 development, which they've shown they can't do it and 20 meet that height restriction and meet the 20 units per 21 acre. If there's testimony to the contrary or 22 deliberations, then maybe we can figure out how we would 23 craft that denial of that waiver and determine what the 24 next steps are. 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Miss Jensen. 183 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING O1 1i g Advantage u4c ) Reporting Services, LLC -1 11 1: 1: l: 1� 1` 1E 17 18 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: One more. And this has 2 to do with potential litigation. I -- this wasn't on 3 the record, Mr. Rennie brought it up, would ABAG pay for I litigation. I asked Mr. Schultz earlier the cost of -- i to the Town of defending a suit, and I realize the first i step theoretically, depending on there could be multiple 7 suits from multiple parties, and I don't know what form 3 they would take, I know that the answer that you gave us 1 assumes that there would be a writ taken, and maybe you 1 can explain that for the record what that is, but I would imagine that there could be all kinds of different forms of suits, so I was trying to figure out what the cost to the Town would be under various scenarios should there be. litigation. MR. SCHULTZ: Sure. And first, for those that don't know, ABAG is the Associated Bay Area Governments, which is our insurance carrier. It's a risk pool, and they only cover us for tort claims, someone who trips and falls, or if there's tree limbs that fall or any other negligent claims. They don't cover decisions made by the Councils, such as this in land use decision, so yes, we don't have any insurance. You know, it would come out of the general fund, any defense of it. The first -- the first step would be a writ, what they call a writ, which is an administrative writ M, TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �-Arn RepoAing • 010::9 S Services, LLc 1 that's taken on the decision. There's not your typical 2 lawsuit, it's not a jury trial. It's a judge that hears(�y 3 it, and he hears it with no witnesses or no depositions. 4 It's all based on the administrative record. 5 To give an example of the administrative 6 record, we're involved in the Highway 85 litigation that 7 was probably over a year now into that, and we still 8 have not completed the administrative record on that 9 project because of the Highway 85 and the amount of 10 documents. 11 So we would probably be a little bit quicker 12 with our administrative record, but it takes quite a bit 13 to put it -- together the administrative record and both 14 sides to agree on the administrative record, and then WV 15 there's a hearing called for. 16 For costs for that, I would estimate that 17 anywhere between 75,000 to 150,000 for a writ challenge, 18 plus -- and then there could be appeals on top of that, 19 so you could go all the way up to 300,000 to defend a 20 writ action. 21 On top of that writ action was the other 22 litigation that I discussed, it is possible that there 23 could be a takings lawsuit that could be filed at some 24. point in time if your decision was incorrect. That's 25 the other lawsuit which most people are familiar with, 185 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING J �• 010.:90 E',r :;. R; {` Ad®anisge Am� Reporting Services, LLC A Lo 1( 1] 1L 1� 19 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 which would be the jury trial with experts and 2 deposition testimony determining whether there was a 3 dimolution (sic) in value of their property. And this I is only if they were correct in their -- and were to i overturn you if you did a denial. And those can run i anywhere between 300 to 700,000. So there's quite a bit of dollars involved in litigation and attorneys, but I would say that really shouldn't go into your decision. You should be evaluating this based on what's in front of you and, again, going back to finding the objective standards in the Specific Plan, because that's the document you approved in determining whether this project and the application meets the objective standards that are set forth in the Specific Plan. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. That's it for now. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC; Okay. So I'm also going to go through the desk item B that Staff provided. So let's start with.page two, number two, actual traffic counts are different than the calculations in the EIR. So first question is do we know how different, like what are the orders of magnitude? MR. MORLEY: So I..think.that was posed as a EM TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting Services, LL® 1 question that was received, or a statement that was 2 received, and the response is addressing that. 3 The -- we don't have measurements past -- we 4 don't have a traffic study past what was done initially 5 with this particular project. And I think the documents 6 that you've been provided outline sort of what the 7 potential for additional traffic studies might be in 8 that the project does not require additional traffic 9 analysis. It doesn't require additional environmental 10 work, and from the -- from Staff's -- from the 11 perspective of the analysis that was provided 12 subsequently by the Applicant, the phase one project is 13 a small portion from a traffic impact of the entire 14 Specific Plan, and that the project, the phase one 15 project, is required to pay for nearly all of the -- pay" 16 for and implement nearly all of the traffic mitigation 17 for -- for the entire Specific Plan. 18 So what in effect we will see I think is an 19 actual decrease in the impact. I don't want to be 20 misconstrued in that when you go out there, there will 21 be -- and the project is finished and open, there will 22 be more cars on the road, but the impact to the traffic 23 will be decreased through -- through -- immediately 24 after the phase one project, and subsequent projects 25 will then capture -- catch that up to what the full 187 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ,:x 0 103) 92 Advantage �A q Reporting Services, LLC Ll LO 1( 1] 1L l� 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 impact would be. 2 Does not preclude from -- the Council from 3 having further traffic analysis done for future phases I of the project. 5 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So number two, the i actual traffic counts are different, so that is not the Staff statement that they're different, no one has done that -- MR. MORLEY: That is not a Staff statement. That was a statement that was made -- COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: During Tuesday's -- MR. MORLEY: Correct. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Got it. Okay. I do want to ask you about number 17, the landscaping and storm water improvements. The response was, "Conflicts have occurred with past projects and are resolved as Staff reviews improvement plans prior to their approval." Walk me through, prior to whose approval? Prior to Council's approval? Prior to Staff approval? If you could just.clarify how -- at what point have the conflicts in the past been identified, and how were they resolved? MR. MORLEY: So it's typical, as the Applicant explained, for there to be conflicts between various MR TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING " 010 3 3 Advantage " cage c RePorg Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 •. 01U194 improvements on a project as the different specialties, start to come together and fully complete a project. So with this particular project, we would see that. One of the good examples I think is the landscaping along the sound wall along 17, and there may -- there may actually be some conflict along the way there between the trees and the storm water mitigation measures that are in place along that line. That will all come to fruition as the projects continues to develop and as Staff reviews those plans. And Staff will work with the Applicant to mitigate that to be able to address it so that conflicts don't -- still meet the requirements of the project, yet don't create -- or leave that conflict in place. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And I guess this -- I'll ask it to Mr. Morley, but if anyone wants to respond. When we are discussing underground parking, a statement was made that when you have underground parking, all of a sudden now you have this concrete, and so you actually may have less green on top of that because you -- just because of the -- just the concrete underneath. It makes sense to me, but can Staff affirm whether that is true, whether it is -- are there ways to get around that, understanding that the intent of the question was to try and get more.parking underground, TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �— ,q Reporting Services, LLC W e c E E c 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 but still maintain that green lushness that people are looking for? MR. SWISS: Mike SWISS, associate civil engineer. You're basically limited with a podium structure of the size of vegetation that could fit in above ground matter.. So you can't have larger vegetation to some degree, but you're not going to have the ability to grow roots to deeper levels. So you're limited by that thickness of vegetation or soil that can be placed above the concrete, so . . . There's a number of different high density developments around -- in the County and have these podiums -- structures, and you'll see that it isn't a large vegetative area. There's more -- there's open spaces, but they aren't covered by large canopies for that reason. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And the question that I had asked, also, of the Applicant was market hall and just siting it so that since it was the largest structure to be on the lowest part, based on your examination of the topography, could it be moved any further to the.lowest part to help absorb some of that height? MR. SWISS: I don't think we've evaluated that 190 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage s^ geperdn 1 U, 3 j Serviceg,T.$C '` i 1 to this point right now. 2 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. And then the last(' 3 question that I have, I'm going to steal Mr. -- Council 4 Member Rennie's question about just if -- when do the 5 trees come in regard -- if -- if the statement is true 6 that realistically the houses would be built in four 7 years, would the trees be planted first and so that you 8 have four years of growth before you see any 9 construction on the inside? Can you just walk me 10 through how construction would occur? 11 MR. MORLEY: So I don't know that we've seen a 12 construction phasing plan and how the -- how the project 13 would be built out. I expect it would be in phases. 14 The landscaping would be the last element of the 15 project, so that would come in at the end. (� 16 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Follow up is have you -- 17 have we had any projects in Town where we put that as 18 the first part to start establishing tree growth? 19 MR. PAULSON: So we have had a project that we 20 requested that they plant perimeter trees as early as 21 possible. The challenge gets to be with the physical 22 improvements with infrastructure and /or parking. 23 In certain instances where if you put the trees 24 in, then you come in and do the work for underground 25 utilities or parking and you damage those trees or kill 191 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �Cpq Reporting Services, LLC ki 1i 1 2 01 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 F "M! P4072 them. So we've run into some challenges. We've been . successful in certain instances, but it's not a typical requirement. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay, thank you. And then I have a larger question about just zoning, if -- should I just go ahead or? MAYOR SPECTOR: Why don't you hold on. Let me go to Miss Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I just wanted to follow up on an answer that Mr. Morley gave before the big question. You said that with respect to traffic studies, et cetera, I thought I heard you say that for this project we've done everything and it's all -- it's all good, but we were -- the Council was not precluded from having further studies on other phases, and I'm quite curious about that, because just my reading of -- we did an EIR for the entire Specific Plan area, so I want to make sure that you mean what you say, that somehow a -- a traffic study could be done for an additional phase, because as I understand the legal requirements for getting additional information, I'm not sure that that's correct, but I -- but if you tell me it's correct, I'll put that on the record. MR. MORLEY: So there's -- there's a gray area, 192 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantages Reporting 010 91 jC Se oes,' 'c" 1 and there's no specified time of -- or changing 2 conditions where you would require a second -- a 3 follow -up traffic study. The VTA has a standard. They 4 set their standard at five years. So I -- it is a 5 potential that another project could come in within that 6 time frame, and we'd have to wrestle with whether it was 7 required or not. In the five year time frame it starts 8 to become a little bit more clear and becomes a little 9 bit easier. 10 And then beyond that, it would be what are the 11 changing conditions in the environment on -- in terms of 12 traffic that would justify an additional traffic study. 13 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Thank you. 14 MAYOR SPECTOR: I'll go back to Miss Sayoc. I 15 You didn't have -- you didn't want to -- 16 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: A follow -up to that? 17 MAYOR SPECTOR: Go ahead. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Oh, no, I don't have a 19 follow -up, I'm sorry. 20 MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I would like to follow 22 up. So on the traffic study, if the Applicant comes in 23 with something on phase two that exceeds what's in the 24 original traffic study, I don't know, let's say I think 25 the original traffic study assumed a certain amount of 193 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING a.• 010,198 C;.�"! #? Advantage J q Reporting Services, LLC W 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 office, a certain amount of retail, if they came in with more office somehow and it still fit in the plan, then another traffic study could be required; is that correct? MR. MORLEY: That's correct. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So a follow -up to that. So again, walk me through the traffic studies. We have the large traffic study as part of the EIR -- and remind me what the date of that was. MR. MORLEY: The date it was collected in 2013. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. And that's -- that's the Notice Of Preparation date that Mr. Schultz was talking about? Of when we -- our cutoff is? MR. PAULSON: So the Notice Of Preparation is when we send out notice to the community and other agencies that we're going to be preparing an EIR. So the traffic study looks like February 13th, 2013. So it was in that time frame when the NOP was posted, so that is our baseline. When the actual traffic study was completed, we'll take a look and see if we can get you an exact date on that. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Well, years are good. 194 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING A&antage J Reporting 0104,99 ' ,s5., Services, LLC 1 So the Notice Of Preparation, that was 2013, that did -- 2 that was part of the EIR, and then was there a 3 subsequent traffic analysis done between the Specific 4 Plan and when this application was deemed complete? 5 MR. MORLEY: There was quite a bit that was 6 done with traffic along the way, so the EIR and NOP was 7 in February of 2013. Additional information was 8 requested by the Council as that initial TIA was being 9 concluded, and that was the information for the work 10 that -- the projects that were starting to come to light 11 around Samaritan, for example. Those were incorporated 12 in as additional information, not into the -- into the 13 TIA, but as additional information for consideration of 14 the Council. 15 That occurred in 2014, the early part of 2014. 16 Subsequently -- and to -- to address it specifically, . 17 the Samaritan Court plan was withdrawn through the City 18 of San Jose, and a replacement project was put in place. 19 That's the Samaritan Medical Master Plan that is in the 20 works now. And that NOP was in August of 2015, so last 21 year, so somewhat after the TIA, the traffic analysis 22 was completed. Does that help with the dates? 23 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: It -- well, yes, but 24 again, is there -- was there a traffic study done 25 between when the Specific Plan was approved and when 195 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING k •:.010300 ;; C Advantage 4q Reporting Services, LLC VL L t c E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this application was deemed complete? MR. MORLEY: There was an analysis that was done by the -- by Feren Pearce (phonetic) that evaluated the traffic study that was done previously and identified that the project was within -- within the bounds of that initial traffic study. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And what is the date of that? MAYOR SPECTOR: And while you're looking for that, the Council approved the Specific Plan in June of 2015? So the traffic studies would have preceded that. MR. MORLEY: Correct. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. MR. MORLEY: And the Feren Pearce memo was dated -- dated February 25th of 2016. And that's in your packet -- in your packet it is Appendix D to -- to the project. MAYOR SPECTOR: And just clarify for me, what traffic study did we do subsequent to the approval of the Specific Plan? MR. MORLEY: That was the Feren Pearce analysis that we -- that we were discussing that was completed. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. I just thought my better question is why. MR. MORLEY: That was the -- the check back to 196 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting +f}�n 010301 s ervices, LLC I make sure that the project was within the EIR that was 2 done for the specific -- for the Specific Plan. 3 MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, thank you. Mr. Rennie. 4 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could just do a 5 little traffic and then allow Miss Sayoc back. Question 6 on the mitigation, you answered that they are putting in 7 all the traffic mitigation for phase one, and I recall 8 that's a bunch of things at Lark and Los Gatos Boulevard 9 and some things down at the highway and some bicycle 10 improvements. 11 Does it include anything up toward -- up north 12 on Los Gatos Boulevard at Samaritan? 13 MR. MORLEY: It does not include the 14 improvements at Samaritan. It includes median island 15 improvements along Los Gatos Boulevard and a traffic 16 signal at Neighbor Street. 17 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And so all of that will 18 go in with this current proposal? 19 MR. MORLEY: Correct. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: And I recall it, maybe 21 there was money that should be paid into the 22 intersection improvement, a fund. Will they pay for 23 that from phase one or some future phase? 24 MR. MORLEY: So the -- that would be worked -- 25 still to be worked through. The.impact fees that the 197 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING +• 01030 2 Advantage An Reporting Services, LLC NO 10 i E c 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 project is -- this project is responsible for is approximately three and a half million dollars. Some of that could be offset by the projects that they are actually doing the improvement for. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So they -- so our stand -- if I could follow up, our standard traffic fee is three and a half million dollars, and they are doing some things that will offset that, but we may get some money into our own coffers to go do traffic improvements wherever we want is what you're saying? MR. MORLEY: I won't commit to getting some money in until we are able to see what the -- what the project costs actually line up to be. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could continue. So somewhere it said, I think Staff Report said that they're spending 11 million dollars on traffic improvements, if I'm remembering correctly. I think Mr. Lockridge said 12 million the other night. How, if they're spending 12 million, and we're asking for three million, would we ever get anything back? MR. MORLEY: So some of that -- some of that 12 million is attributable to the subsequent phases of the project, and so they should be getting those dollars back from the subsequent phases. All of that, the details.of that is yet to be TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting 0103113 Services, ►._ c 1 worked out and will ultimately be an agreement between .I 111 2 would suspect the Town and the developers to identify 3 what the -- what the method is for making that happen 4 over time. 5 There's also a portion of the impacts that they 6 are responsible for for -- for projects -- for some of 7 the work associated with the project. So for instance, 8 the work on Los Gatos Boulevard, the center median 9 island and the improvement at Neighborhood Street aren't 10 in our -- in that list of traffic impact projects that I 11 identified, so they wouldn't receive credit back for any 12 of that work. 13 So it would be simply the -- the list of the 14 projects within our traffic impact fee list that would 15 be eligible for some sort of an offset. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: One more if I could. 17 MAYOR SPECTOR: Yes, Mr. Rennie. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you. I also 19 recall that there was an impact on Highway 85, I think, 20 that required money to be paid into that. Are they 21 paying money into some VTA pot, also? 22 MR. MORLEY:. The project was reduced in scope 23 subsequent to the -- subsequent to that -- to the 24 traffic study. That reduction in scope eliminated the 25 impact to Highway 85. 199 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage An Reporting Services, LLC WC L E E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: When you say reduction in scope, that's when we limited the maximum office and retail total commercial? MR. MORLEY: That's correct. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. I think I'm done -- MAYOR SPECTOR: You're done? COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- with traffic questions, thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay. Further questions? Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So to quote Council Member Jensen, I'm sorry to beat a dead horse here, but I'm going back to actual traffic counts again. And again, I understand that this wasn't your statement, but if there are actual traffic counts that were done for the February 25, 2016 check in, and it showed. that it was different than what our assumptions were in the EIR analysis, isn't -- what do we do with that discrepancy? Shouldn't that be examined as part of the check in, that -- the 2016 analysis should have done? MR. MORLEY: I think -- let me start with this little chart, and maybe this will start to help frame it a little bit. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. 200 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting 1 0103055 Services, LLC I MR. MORLEY: So this is our work -- this shows 2 the full build out on the right, the big column, and 3 the -- the red is a residential portion of the project, 4 and the blue is the commercial. 5 As you can see, the phase one trips are 6 significantly less, and the improvements are 7 significantly greater, so there's no significant impact, 8 fairly easy to get to through a traffic analysis. This 9 shows there's no significant impacts in the first phase 10 of the project, because the improvements are so 11 significant, and the overall project -- the overall -- 12 the improvements that are being made for phase one will 13 accommodate the traffic from the entire Specific Plan, 14 which is to the right, the right side. 15 So you can see that the very -- the small 16 impact from phase one fits well within that, and yet the 17 improvements are going to be big enough to cover all of 18 the -- all of the Specific Plan project. 19 Some of that's working and some of it's not. 20 What can I say -- where can I go to help it calculate a 21 little bit? 22 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: It's just -- it's 23 working. I'm -- I need to repeat it. in my mind. 24 MR. MORLEY: Yeah, okay. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. 201 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING ��• 010306 'it,. t? Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC l e E E c lc 11 12 1? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Go ahead. You have more questions? COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: If I may. And so that is -- these numbers reflect the changes with the mitigation that was identified in our EIR, correct? Or is that just raw data of what it will -- MR. MORLEY: This is just to help -- this is just raw data. This doesn't reflect the traffic study. This is meant to help you see how -- how the first phase project is small compared to the improvements that are being made with the first phase so that the impacts -- because the traffic study is set up to identify impacts from the project. The impacts will not be -- are all mitigatable, are all being mitigated within the improvements that are being done through that first phase. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay, so I have you there. MR. MORLEY: Good. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Or you again, if there's a discrepancy in the actual data counts are different, does: ultimately the analysis that was being that make sense? MR. MORLEY: So you're saying have me. But data, and our 'i't that affect looked at? Does if additional 202 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING y Advantage �� Reporting 1 data was collected and it showed an increase in trips . 2 now, that -- wouldn't that affect the long -term look at t 3 it? And I think that feasibly -- theoretically yes, if 4 you were to look at the Specific Plan as a whole, but 5 we're looking at the project in this particular case. 6 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay, thank you. 7 MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Ms. Jensen. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I'm sorry, but I just 9 want to get the time line correct, just for me and for 10 the record. 11 So in February 13th -- or February 13th. In 12 February of 2013, we issued a Notice Of Preparation of 13 an EIR when we began traffic studies, methodologies, et 14 cetera, and that was reflected in the EIR that was 15 considered by Planning Commission and Town Council, 16 correct? 17 MR. MORLEY: Correct. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: For the entire plan 19 area. Then when the Council began to consider whether 20 to certify the EIR, the Council requested additional 21 traffic information, which was Dell Avenue, the at the 22 time Samaritan office building and Good Sam ER. 23 MR. MORLEY: Correct. 24 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: It also requested a 25 different methodology to look at.the traffic. Other 203 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010308 ill Advantage JTq Reporting Services, LLC ,AN LO 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 than the manuals that we always use, there were alternate means of discussing or looking at traffic. That request was made sometime before September 2014, because -- we got the additional information, because the Council then certified the EIR in September 2014, correct? With that additional traffic information. MR. MORLEY: Correct. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. Then you were telling -- there are some other -- okay. So then the Council adopted the Specific Plan in June of 2015, and once the Specific Plan was adopted, then we got the application, and then I've got an initial study, North 40 Phase One Development Project, initial study prepared for the Town of Los Gatos, EMC Planning Group, which is March 23rd, 2016, which is basically comparing the application to the mitigation and the findings in the EIR, one of them being traffic, and determining whether or not something else needs to be done. That's in March of 2016, and that concluded no, we don't need to do anything else for traffic. MR. MORLEY: COUNCIL MEMB other -- I don't know February 2016 study. MR. MORLEY: That's correct. ER JENSEN: Okay. What is the what is being referred to by the That's -- that's the study I think 204 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it was -- the document that I have is -- it was updated February 25th, so essentially March. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: So the one that I have that's March 23rd, 2016 is what you were referring to between Specific Plan adoption and today, that's the document we had that looks to see whether or not we need to do something different in every aspect of the EIR given the application? MR. MORLEY: Yeah. I'm looking at the traffic consultant's portion of that report, which is I think dated a little bit earlier, so that makes sense as it would be put together. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. But it's incorporated— MR. MORLEY: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- into that document -- MR. MORLEY: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- which is Exhibit 3. A VOICE: Correct. MR. MORLEY: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: A VOICE: Correct. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- of our -- All right. Is there 205 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010310E Advantage A q Reporting Services; LLC 60 L c E i E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any other traffic study out there -- MR. MORLEY: That's all of it. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor Spector. You know, since we keep talking about this theoretical change in the Specific Plan, is there any way we can change the Specific Plan to get more traffic mitigation? Should I -- back up a little bit. You know, we've talked about what if this project goes away and we go change our Specific Plan, can we change our Specific Plan in a way that we can get more traffic mitigation fees? MR. MORLEY: You can't change your Specific Plan, but your future traffic analysis may identify other areas that need to be mitigated depending on the situation at that particular time. MR. PAULSON: And generally to that point, if you were to change the Specific Plan, you would look at the new data, you do a -- potentially have to do a new EIR and look for additional impacts above and beyond what was reviewed in the EIR for the -- for the original Specific Plan. That would generally, even with an increase 206 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING r' j Advantage Jci^ Repoa%nng r 01 ®3 1 1 Services, `li'LLC 1 from Samaritan or some of these other projects that are 2 being talked about, probably means an increase in 3 commercial as an allowance for your modification to the 4 Specific Plan, which probably is not one of the 5 modifications that would be made I assume, so that 6 analysis would take place then. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So if I could just make 8 sure -- 9 MAYOR SPECTOR: Mr. Rennie. 10 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: -- I understand what 11 you said. So you're saying if we increase commercial, 12 then something might -- mitigation might increase, but 13 since you don't think it will increase commercial, 14 you're saying there probably won't be any difference i 15 from what we get now? 16 MR. PAULSON: Yeah, I'm talking in 17 generalities -- 18 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Yeah, okay. 19 MR. PAULSON: -- so, you know, generally the 20 more commercial, the more traffic. The residential is 21 very low traffic generator in comparison to the 22 commercial. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. 24 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Jensen. 25 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Again, sorry, just to 207 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 01031' 49i l� Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC 10 L c E 5 8 C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be my record person. I believe what you're indicating_ is that in order to change the specific -- in order for the Town to receive any other traffic impact mitigation fees, we would have to find that there was a nexus between those fees and whatever the project, we couldn't simply say based upon all the analysis that we've had already that we could raise the fees, so that's correct -- MR. PAULSON: That's correct. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- that's the first part? MR. PAULSON: That's correct. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: The second part is and the way that we could create a nexus is that if the application or the Specific Plan became bigger and more intense and generated more traffic and that, therefore, you could get more fees, so we can't just say I want more fees -- MR. PAULSON: Correct. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: -- without making a -- a bigger project? MR. PAULSON: Correct, generally, yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay, thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? You don't have to do them by -- by theory or subject. Mr. Rennie. 208 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A v R sporting 010 313 Services C ' i 1 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could go back 2 to -- to the lawsuit, I wanted to -- some of the answers( 3 to the lawsuit I didn't jump in for my clarification. 4 If there was a lawsuit and we lost, do we get to make 5 changes to the application after we lose, or are we 6 stuck with exactly what's submitted? 7 MR. SCHULTZ: What's submitted. 8 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. 9 MR. SCHULTZ: And I would -- I would state that 10 the prevailing parties -- what I didn't say earlier 11 about those costs and those amounts I was telling you 12 about is is that that was the legal fees we would pay 13 for our side. Attorneys' fees, if you lose, you have to 14 pay the other side their attorneys' fees, so you'd have f: 15 to pay if we were to lose. 16 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Which is probably the 17 same thing what we paid? 18 MR. SCHULTZ: Probably in that same 19 neighborhood that I said. 20 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So it's -- 21 MR. SCHULTZ: And them the other part of that 22 would be is if in fact a third -- if you approve the 23 project and a third party citizen or anyone sued, we do 24 have in our application -- in our conditions of approval 25 where the Applicant has hold us harmless and defend us. 209 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING x; Advantage s, �`�� q Reporting Services, LLC G L' E S 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So there wouldn't be any cost in that situation. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. No more lawsuit questions. Can I go to a different subject? MAYOR SPECTOR:. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If you recall, I was asking about the possibility of opening holes in the trees along Lark Avenue. The reason I asked Staff is I mean it sounds like a wonderful idea to get more view corridors, but are there any implications for anything else that would make that not a good idea? MR. PAULSON: Well, ultimately you'll decide COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I think I said Lark Avenue. I mean 17. MR. PAULSON: Correct. So ultimately you'll decide that that's not an issue for Staff to look at that, understanding that you're interested in trying to preserve some view in that corridor, so that is definitely something Staff could work with. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could just follow up a little bit. So if we said, you know, we could say something like Staff work with them to find the appropriate trees to leave a hole for kind of thing, and then it would be figured out? MR. PAULSON: Correct. . 210 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage 4rn , Reporting 01031S .I„ SeAdces, LLC 1 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. 2 MS. PREVETTI: Madam Mayor, if I could just -- 3 MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Prevetti. 4 MS. PREVETTI: -- elaborate? Thank you. That 5 would probably take the form of a condition of approval, 6 so we would want to modify the conditions of approval to 7 document that prior to issuance of building permits or 8 approval of the Vesting Tentative Map that to the 9 direct -- to the satisfaction of your planning director 10 the modifications have been made to create view 11 corridors, to eliminate trees that would be at the dead 12 end of certain streets. 13 So we would work with you to actually fashion a 14 very specific condition, so that way any reasonable 15 person would come to the some conclusion as to what that` 16 revised plan set would look like. 17 MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. 18 COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Just a follow up on 19 that question. I don't -- I don't know the answer to 20 whether or not the tree screening on 17 has any impact, 21 because that's the hazardous area zone, cancer, et 22 cetera, and the fumes, does the tree screen, is that -- 23 in addition to looking better, does it actually have an 24 impact on those things, and do we have to consider that? 25 MS. PREVETTI: Yes. Actually, the Air Quality 211 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U1O31f '' Advantage Jcpq Reporting Services, LLC II 61 L 4 E E 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Management Board does look at trees as a really important way of mitigating development next to freeways, so we might look at a substitute plant material, so maybe something that's not quite as high as what is being proposed in the plan, so I think -- you know, and the balance of that screening would still be there. I think we're really talking about maybe one or two trees being substituted out with the appropriate plant material, as the landscape architect testified earlier. MAYOR SPECTOR: Let me look this way. All right. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So just to follow on -- so follow on with that a little bit more, could we require -- well, part of what we want to do is visually screen the houses, but also pollutant screen, too. Couldn't we just put tree -- you know, acquire some trees not at the highway, but if the street goes down -- I'll try to stay close to the mike. If the street goes down, put them here so they're kind of hiding the houses, but there's still a clear visual path down the street, if I'm making any sense at all? MR. PAULSON: Yes, that's possible. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: .Okay, thank you. 212 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage �A s, Jn Reporting 010317 Services, J'LLC i� 1 MAYOR SPECTOR: I now look to my left. I don't 2 see anybody there. I'll look to my right. Mr. Rennie. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you. I had -- 4 have some more on my list, if I can figure out what they 5 are here. Or what I haven't asked yet. 6 I hate to ask this, but I forgot to ask the 7 Applicant, I wanted to ask about the market hall and 8 those other buildings, whether their architecture could 9 be changed, so this is a difficult question I know for 10 Staff to ask, but we can't ask the Applicant any more.. 11 There was people that thought they were kind of 12 glitzy, and it would be better to have materials that 13 maybe aged a little bit.or were -- you know, celebrated 14 sort of the farm a little bit more on those buildings, J 15 because we talked about the residential, and I forgot to 16 talk about those. Can you give me any idea whether that 17 makes sense or not? Or any way to find out from the 18 Applicant? 19 MR. PAULSON: To find out from the Applicant 20 would be a question of the Mayor. But that is something 21 that we could work on. The details of the market hall 22 or those commercial buildings, that commercial building 23 specifically, with the Town's consulting architect in 24 conjunction with the Applicant's team as a condition, if 25 that's something that Council's interested in. 213 TRANSCRIPTION.08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage STS Reporting Services, LLLC IOON f�1 E E c 1C 11 12 1? 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And again, we would craft a -- all of these, any changes that potentially were proposed along those lines, as Ms. Prevetti said before, we would craft as conditions of approval.. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So I want to talk about zoning within the Specific Plan. So within the Specific Plan we list the various uses allowed, and we tabulate that in nice content of Lark District -- I'm blanking -- Transition, excuse me, and Northern District. So it goes into the residential and what is by right, and we've had numerous discussions about this already, but when we did the housing element, our obligation was to provide 270 units at 20 units per acre in the Specific Plan, and nowhere in our housing element did we specify where those 13 and a half acres were going, correct? MR. PAULSON: That's correct. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: And so one of the things that was discussed was potential rezoning. There's no rezoning that has to happen, because within the Specific Plan, as long as the uses are allowable, we don't have to zone within -- there's no zoning that's necessary to occur beyond the Specific Plan; is that correct? 214 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage L4! p, Reporting 4 010319 Services, LLC i 1 MR. PAULSON: There is not. The Specific Plan 2 is in fact the zoning for the site. 3 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. And so -- okay, 4 so that's -- actually, that answered my question, and 5 let me think how I'm going to ask the next one. 6 MAYOR SPECTOR: Do you want time? All right. 7 Does anyone else have a question? I can ask them very 8 slowly. 9 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So actually -- 10 MAYOR SPECTOR: Go ahead. 11 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: So this is now -- hold 12 my train of thought here. So again, we've never zoned 13 which 13 and a half, so for the density bonus, there's 14 no -- there's -- there's no reason why all or 237, 270,. 15 or even I'm just throwing random numbers out, 13 ane 16 a half acres have to happen in the 20 units. We can -- 17 20 acres -- the 20 -- the 13 and a half acres do not 18 have to happen within this current application. 19 MR. PAULSON: There is nothing in the Specific 20 Plan that states that. 21 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: We don't no have -- we 22 don't need a pending application showing how else we're 23 going to do it, because we have till 2023 to meet that 24 obligation, correct? 25 MR. SCHULTZ: Correct.. There's nothing that 215 TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010320 ►; -�� Advantage JCpJ Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 says that it will all be in this phase, and it also says it's not going to be in this phase, either, though. So that's the issue. MAYOR SPECTOR: Let me follow up. I mean, what we're talking about here are two different things. We have -- so this is going to be an isn't that true when I finish making my statement. That we have -- we have planned for these units, and they could be built in this area, but at the end of the time in 2020, what will happen is that if they are built, the state will give us a check mark, and if they're not, we won't get a check mark. I mean, that's basically all that's going to happen. End of question. MS. PREVETTI: From a housing element perspective, that's true. I think the challenge before us is that you have an application with a density bonus request, and so we're a little bit more constrained than we might be in other circumstances. MAYOR SPECTOR: And let me follow up on that. Yes, we have an application, but following up on Miss Sayoc, we don't necessarily have a location for that density of housing, correct? MS. PREVETTI: That's correct. Both the housing element and the Specific Plan did not identify particular parcels. 216 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U2Q3 t Advanta& AS orftg Services, LLC is 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2` MAYOR SPECTOR: Nor do we have a mandate on the size of the units. MS. PREVETTI: Well, the Specific Plan does identify maximum size of units. MAYOR SPECTOR: Maximum size. MS. PREVETTI: So there are some -- MAYOR SPECTOR: (Inaudible.) MS. PREVETTI: Right. There are some parameters to guide development. MAYOR SPECTOR: Is there a minimum? MS. PREVETTI: I believe we've got maximums. We'll check through the guidelines. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. All right. Other questions? Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: It's a follow up on the same question, and I neglected to ask Staff earlier. With respect to whether or not if this particular application contains 13 and a half acres at a default density of 20 units per acre, can we split that up and move it somewhere else, and Mr. Faber's response was you can't, because you have to wait for another application, and my question was I don't understand why, because if it's like a regular zoning, I can build my house, I don't have to wait for the other 99, so can Staff comment on Mr. Faber's position that somehow we couldn't 217 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage `qq Reporting lJ Services, LLC 1 L 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do that because we had to wait for another application. MR. SCHULTZ: So you don't have to wait for another application, but he did say that to deny this and to remove units under that scenario, you have to base that on the objective standards found within your Specific Plan. You can't say oh, I just -- since we've designated that it's possible to do 20 units per acre, you can't just say well, I don't want four -- let's just take four acres, I don't like them on this site, I want them over there, because what the state's going to say is is what you're really trying to do is not allow density over 20 acres, because when the next one comes in, you'll push it and say no, I don't like it here, either. And that's where the discretion comes in, which you don't have any more, so we have to go back to the fact that if you are going to deny certain units on this application, you have to tie it to objective standards found within your Specific Plan. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. And just to follow up on that. MAYOR SPECTOR: Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: I assume that then -- you're now playing the. role of Mr. Faber, that the Par-] TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage J�q : Reporting U103?3 (J' Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2C 21 2L 2 2� 2` position is because of the way that you've approved the Specific Plan and your -- the parts of your housing element, you, basically, Town Council, aren't able to make any of those objective findings required, ergo, you have to take my 13 and a half acres. MR. SCHULTZ: Well, I don't necessarily agree -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. MR. SCHULTZ: -- that you can't find objective standards in here to deny certain parts of this project. I didn't say that. I said -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Well, you're playing Mr. Faber. MR. SCHULTZ: Oh, I'm playing Mr. Faber. Oh, okay. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Sorry. Sorry, Mr. Faber. MR. SCHULTZ: His is there are no objective standards, we've met them all, so therefore you have to approve this. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. And the Town -- you believe, as the representative of the Town, now playing yourself -- it's late -- that -- MR. SCHULTZ: Certainly -- COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: . -- there are objective 219 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Aft • 010 3 2 4 (('�� Adv=tage STS Reporting "� Services, I.LC i� 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 standards that this Council could find in the Specific Plan that would allow it to move some of those 20 units per acre to another spot, whether there was a pending application or not. MR. SCHULTZ: Yes. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Okay. On that other -- on the other part, pending an indication on the other part. Okay. Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further discussion? Miss Sayoc. No, it's not discussion. Questions. Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay. So this is a question -- I can't remember which Council Member asked -- about just various lawsuit, potential lawsuit that may come our way, and one of them was devaluing of land. Couldn't one make the argument that if you've utilized all 270 or utilized all 13 and a half acres, you've taken away the opportunity for the other land owners on the other side to build residential on theirs and devalue theirs, or as long -- or -- so that's -- that's the straightforward question. MR. SCHULTZ: So, no, because they would still have some zoning left, maybe it might be commercial, but you're not guaranteed of any type of zoning. You know, you've got the Specific Plan. I.suppose if there's -- 220 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING U1 O J ,#vantage 4 �, Report mg �,; �� Services, L LC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the question comes up if you've used up all of your residential and someone does all their commercial and there's still land still somewhere left, then the issue is how do you comply with the Specific Plan, but we're not there yet, but the other parcels would still have the ability to utilize their land in some way, shape or form. MS. PREVETTI: And I would just add, if I may, that it's not an issue of devaluing land, it's really have we taken the all economic uses of the property away, and the answer is no. MAYOR SPECTOR: And it's talking about eminent domain. All right. Ms. Jensen. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: Just a follow up on the,, taking question. Mr. Schultz, do you have an opinion one way or the other if delay can amount to a taking? MR. SCHULTZ: It's not necessarily a taking. I mean, the argument could be that if in fact you denied this project and it went to appeals and it was five years later, you know, there's -- there's just so many variables there that I'm not even aware of, the relationship between Grosvenor and the Yo -- Yuki family and where that contract is, and but there could be a claim for damages made that because of that relationship, maybe the contract.had options that he 221 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reporting 010326 S Services, LLC N 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 F*AI P�.7 wasn't able to obtain. So I can't speculate as to all the different ways, but there are lawsuits that have been filed over denial of a project that then is overturned by the courts, and there was a dimolution (sic) of value of your property because of that time delay. So that is a possibility that could happen. But at the same token, that delay might increase the value of property while the courts were trying to decide the issue, too, and I've seen that happen before, too. MAYOR SPECTOR: And following up on that, there may not be a delay or so much of a delay if litigation were not filed and a replacement or modified application was submitted. MR. SCHULTZ: That's correct. MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. Questions? Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor Spector. I figured out one that I forgot to ask earlier, and I didn't jump in when we were talking about it. We were discussing changing the Specific Plan and being able to add open space requirement to it, and I think you said we could add open space requirement if we change the Specific Plan, but I -- what I wanted -- I recall when we were talking about specific -- open space 222 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage ` Reporting 010'3::1 . services, LLC 1 2 3 4 a 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 requirement, when we were creating a Specific Plan, that I think the attorney gave us direction that if we got over 40 percent it was starting to get to be a taking, and that was one of the reasons we stayed -- stayed below that. So my question really becomes how much open space can you require before you get in trouble of a taking? Hard question, huh? I mean, they've already got 43 percent in the Lark District. MR. SCHULTZ: I don't recall that discussion. I remember the discussion more of what would be counted as open space, not so much a percentage. And so that's where a lot of the times the discussion is is what will be counted as open space in a Specific Plan, but I -- r I -- you know, if the comment would have been have I ever seen 40 percent, that is quite a large amount of open space, but it depends what you consider open space, and usually when you see that much open space, maybe they're counting parking lots, then. So a lot of those calculations -- and if you were to amend the Specific Plan, you could open up that discussion completely again, and we could do the research on that. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I guess what I'm trying to understand is it worth opening the Specific Plan to 223 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING i Advantage �rnn Reporting ICIJ' Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 try to get more open space if we're already at 43 percent, now if we go to 50 -- we say it's got to be 50 percent, is that even worth the trouble? MR. SCHULTZ: I wouldn't know the answer. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay, thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further questions? Okay. I see no further questions, and so this is going to be a suggestion to Council, and I'm going to suggest at this point we can have discussion or motion. My suggestion is that we have some discussion and input before we get to the motion, but it's not obviously a mandate to any of you, but to start the process going, I'm going to call on myself and start at a very, very high level 30,000 foot level, and so the other four of you can decide where you're going to go with your discussion and motion. Because I've been working on this project for such a long time, like since 2010, when it started, I just wanted to give a very brief overview of what it has entailed. It started -- the Specific Plan started with the General Plan Committee,. which is essentially a standing Town committee, but then it segued into the North 40 Advisory Committee, which I chaired, and which consisted of not only Council Members and Planning Commissioners, but also representatives of our. town, 224 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING at 010 3 1., Jdvancag® Repdr ing .p .Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 residents, businesses, property owners. It was a very large committee, and we met very often from, God, like 2000 -- probably about 2011 all the way through 2013. What we would do as part of the North 40 Advisory Committee is periodically we would check in with a joint meeting of the Planning Commission and Town Council, and what some people may not realize is we had this -- this meeting that for a while, you know, in our minds like lived in infamy, and it was a meeting of January 9th, 2012, when the -- the potential Specific Plan was presented to this group, and this group unanimously said no, we don't want to go that way. And one of the individuals on the -- no, actually on the Council, not on the Advisory Committee, on the Council', said that -- that there was a disconnect, and that if we continue, if we, the Advisory Committee, continue doing what we are doing, we're going to have a disconnect, that we have to make a decision. We either have to say that what the Specific Plan is going to continue Los Gatos over Lark and on to seven -- I mean, to 85, or we're going to say that it's going to be a different district. So we're going to have to make that decision, because if we didn't make that decision, we were looking for discomfort and dissension. So the reason that January 9th, 2012 became a TRANSCRIPTION 08 /11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 225 x , f, J Advantage q Reporting 010330 r:. Servicess,li, LLC l 1 L 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 big deal, because it was that discussion that led to the formulation of the vision statement and guiding principles. It was our attempt to say is Los Gatos going to continue over Lark to 85, or are we going to have two separate districts. And it was -- God, it was Council Member -- Council Member McNut and I who drafted the vision statement. It came back to the Council, and it was unanimously approved. At that point, through 2013, the Specific Plan Advisory Committee continued its work. It never actually voted to accept the Specific Plan. Instead, the -- we passed it on to the Planning Commission, and the Planning Commission in 2014 passed the plan on to the Council. They also had open issues, and then it was the Council in 2015, June of 2015, that adopted the Specific Plan. There are a lot of -- like I said, we have received hundreds, and sometimes it seems like thousands, of e -mails and communications, and there are some things that have been said very -- on a very regular basis. that I just want to address. Again, this is a very general level. Some people have said that you didn't -- we should have been involved, why didn't you get us 226 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage ( ^ gi poi %mg U I o 3 t Services, LLC I IRA 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 involved. Well, as you can hear from my summary, this -- these were public hearings from 2010 to 2015, okay, they were very, very public. They were noticed. Maybe we didn't have hundreds of people in attendance, but they were noticed hearings, and there were a lot of them. Some people want to say do something different. Well, right now we have a Specific Plan. We also have -- we may disagree on how to implement it, but we do have a state law that says there is a density bonus. There is a state mandate that exists. We have concessions or exemptions under the density bonus. Those do exist. We may disagree on how to implement them, but all those things exist. People have said well, how could you possibly have this application or this Specific Plan with all this traffic. Well, as you heard, we have a an EIR, and I will tell you right now this Council sent that EIR and the traffic analysis back until we got to the point where we had nothing left to do under the law. So we accepted the EIR. Very interestingly, we didn't approve it, we accepted it, because that's what we had to do at that point in time. People go what can you -- why are you doing this, you've got schools, it's too crowded. The school 227 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010332 Advantage ' '� Reporting £'¢ Services, LLC I 2 01 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 J 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 law is a state law. We don't have jurisdiction over the school, and plus this Applicant has struck an agreement with at least the elementary school district, and so they are not opposing this project. And lastly, people have said well, how could you do this, how could you have the Specific.Plan, it's inconsistent with the General Plan. Well, that's inaccurate, also, because one of the findings we had to make with regard to the Specific Plan is we had to incorporate it and say it is consistent with the General Plan. I am just bringing all these issues forward, because I've heard them so much over the past months and years, and so, in my mind, what I've just shared with you with regard to the history of the Specific Plan and the rules and laws encompassing it, those exist. And so right now we're going to be listening to all of us, our arguments, our motions and so forth, but this is what I consider the threshold that we will be building from. So I will look now to the other members of this Council for hopefully discussion, but if you want to go to a motion, go for it. Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Thank you, Mayor Spector. I also -- since we're talking about the Specific Plan, I -- I thought about this also quite a 228 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage iA Reporting 010333 �;?r ces,LiC 1 2 Q 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 W1 MAN 25 bit, and I jotted down a bunch of notes, and, you know, I keep -- I kept challenging the Specific Plan idea tonight with questions, and I -- I don't think anything has changed my original thoughts that I jotted down. I think I'd probably try to talk more extemporaneously, but since we've been at this five hours already, I may read my thoughts a little more. You know, and it sort of started -- I -- started -- you know, there's all this discussion of let's change the Specific Plan or, you know, look what the -- look, the Specific Plan got this project and, you know, I started thinking well, I think part of the problem is it's too much all at once. When you -- when you have a Specific Plan, you're inviting big projects all -- all to come at once, and it's difficult for -- for people to, you know, have a big change. You know, so I was thinking, well, sometimes I wonder if we -- it would be better if we did not require a Specific Plan, and then things could be built a little bit at a time and, you know, the impact would not be all at once, it wouldn't feel so bad, it would be more acceptable to people, you know. So I was thinking about well, gee, wouldn't that be a nicer world, considering all the pain we're going through. But then I realized we would not get most of 229 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING g. Advantage JCDr, Reporting gp 010334 Services, LLC R J J 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the advantages of planning a new neighborhood that the Specific Plan gives. You know, think about if the developer built five or ten houses this year and five or ten the next year and some more later, we.'d end up with the infrastructure piecemealed together. You know, we'd have ten houses by themselves that would not have enough -- you know, or ten houses by themselves wouldn't have enough traffic impact that we'd actually get any mitigation if we piecemealed it all together, so from that perspective if you have a bigger project, you get the traffic mitigation. wouldn't get the bicycle improvements that were paid for. We'd not get the large amount of open space. And look at our typical neighborhoods, we actually don't have that much open space in our neighborhoods. So by having this plan, we've ended up with, you know, this chance at open space. You know, in the current application, whether we approve it or not, you know, hopefully if we don't, we get another one, you know, there's a park the size of our plaza, which would be hard to do. You know, there's multimodal paths, there's a dog park, there's community gardens. 230 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Jl I'n Reporting (� t 010335 Sea- vices, LLC You know, we -- we would end up -- let's see, skipping past some of my notes here. Oh, we probably wouldn't get the bicycle improvements that were paid for. We'd not get the large amount of open space. And look at our typical neighborhoods, we actually don't have that much open space in our neighborhoods. So by having this plan, we've ended up with, you know, this chance at open space. You know, in the current application, whether we approve it or not, you know, hopefully if we don't, we get another one, you know, there's a park the size of our plaza, which would be hard to do. You know, there's multimodal paths, there's a dog park, there's community gardens. 230 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Jl I'n Reporting (� t 010335 Sea- vices, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 If we piecemeal built this, I don't think we would end up with a lot of these -- these advantages. We would not get a neighborhood that integrates together very well, either, but, you know, we may get that eclectic neighborhood that we think is Los Gatos, I guess. So it kind of takes me back to, you know, it's better to have a Specific Plan, you know, through all this musing that I did. Okay, so if we have a Specific Plan, that forces us to talk about these larger plans or projects that, like I said, are sort of hard to pallet. And like I said, some have said let's throw out the Specific Plan and do it over, because they didn't get what they -- they want in the Specific Plan. Well, you know, this is a town of 30,000 people{ with many different viewpoints and ideas. The current plan is -- you know, has been worked on for -- the current plan five years, and I think it's gone even longer than that, as the Mayor kind of gave the history, you know, with -- there's some residents that spent three years listening to public inputs, getting inputs from the professionals, the consultants, the experts, the professors, and putting together, you know, a pretty decent plan. You know, it's gone through, as you said, TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010336, 231 Advantage Aq Reporting Services, LLC K �j 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Planning Commission and Council meetings. We've -- we've ended up combining the desires of many -- many people, which means nobody gets everything they want. You know, we could -- we can start -- I'm not sure this makes any sense. So I was going to -- I was going to mention, you know, Lee Quintana told us that, you know, she -- she was at most of the meetings, and she was giving constant input, and what sort of impressed me was she said, you know, I gave a lot of inputs, but I didn't get very many things in it, but that's -- you know, the process was good and, you know, I don't think we should go reopen the plan is what she said. So that sort of impressed me that she didn't feel like she got very much of what she wanted, but, you know, it's -- the process is done, let's move on. And I thought about it, you know, one of the -- I didn't get everything I wanted when we talked about it, either. I felt strongly that it was a mistake to cut the height we did and the incentives, you know, with that -- for the extra open space that came along with it. You know, I recall what happened was it was about this time one night where we made a motion to say well, you know, it sounds high to have more than 35 232 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING vantage Reporting Services, LLC I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 a, 010338 feet, so we voted to cut it, and then the next Council meeting, you know, I thought about it and I realized well, geez, we cut the height, we've lost these move down units, which I thought were very important. We lost the ability to get sort of more different height and architectural elements that would have made it look like a better one. I recall at the time saying, you know, I think we're going to end up with sort of squashed, spread out buildings, which is what we got, because you still got to fit 20 units per acre in there. I guess so my point is I think -- I didn't get what I want, either, but I think what I'm coming to a conclusion is, you know, I didn't get what I want, either, but I don't think I want to open the Specific Plan. I would be not in favor of that after this long. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further discussion? Comments? Input? Miss Sayoc. COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Since we're on the subject of what we don't want and just the evolution, thank you, Mayor Spector, for just walking us through the evolution of this. It's -- it's been a long road, and I remember when this process started as an Advisory Committee member, I was adamant that there was going to be no residential houses on the.North 40, and I'm 233 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reporting Services, LLC I 2 1911 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 looking at the Applicant, and I thought I had the coolest idea ever. I wanted an underground Target with a green roof that was going to be soccer fields for our community. And so I still think it's the coolest idea, but I was outvoted, and but I will always make a point to bring that subject up, 'cause I'think it's still cool. But over the course of years many things happened. Our traffic increased. More commercial was built, and all of a sudden in 2015 -- 2014, as we started preparing for our housing this amazingly high number of 619 ,,. everybody has heard about this ad actually chairing the Housing Elei and at the time we had identified element, we were given units, and I know nauseam, but I was nent Advisory Board, sites, Los Gatos Lodge, Higgins Park, South Bay, and potential sites on Los Gatos Boulevard. And we submitted that to the state with housing overlay zones, and we were told that wasn't enough, and all of a sudden by right became this new word that we all had to learn. And we spent, I'd say, four hearings grilling our attorney to repeat over and over again, explain again how this by right works. And the concern that everyone has about this lack of discretionary approval 234 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Adv=tage l Reporting ozo33� S, Services, ZLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 all of a sudden hit us that that was going to happen on Los Gatos Lodge, and at that time I think actual unit count that we were looking at was 450, and by right means we could not ask for any substantial changes above and beyond what was required by CEQA. So that meant no traffic improvements, that meant that there was no -- we couldn't anticipate, even though we couldn't require, any further discussion between our school districts and whatever developer came there. All of a sudden my thinking started to change, and this notion of no residential units to okay, how can we absorb it so that housing could be spaced throughout our town in an equitable manner. That was something that was heard over and over again with the housing element. No particular neighborhood in Los Gatos wanted all affordable housing. It -- and there were justifications. We looked at where were we concentrating things, what were the traffic implications, what were the potential boundary lines to get people from A to B. All that was analyzed. And I just bring it up again, because this notion that yes, we don't have to abide by the housing element, you know, one could argue that, but then we have to go back through that exercise of where are we 235 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage A Reporting Services, LLC 9 V 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 going to put the housing units. And the people on that board did not feel that there was any other site that could absorb it. Now, that being said, again -- and I'm going to go through the years of iteration, I recall saying several times that we could absorb 270 units over 40 acres. That was my thinking at the time. And I know it did not get specified and which acres are going to be there, but one of the key things in all my public policy classes, you look at intent of your policy. And our intent was trying to minimize and bring in this additional housing, which we acknowledge we needed our fair share of housing in the area, but going back to one one of our vision statement, how do we do it so that it seamlessly fits in with Los Gatos. And you have so much opportunity and creativity to do that when you have 40 acres versus 20. And, you know, so that's the large Specific Plan, that's the large housing element, and so now we've created this plan. For all my teacher friends I call this the rubric that we use to grade potential projects against. And you will hear from us, from the five of us, the reasons why we think or not think that it will fit, but this Specific Plan, I mean, I.wish I took notes of how many decisions that were put into the Specific 236 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Plan. It wasn't just five yes or no votes. It was at least 20, 50 individual votes to create this document. And so again, public policy 101, what was the intent of the decisions that went into it. And I can tell you now that when I voted for 35 foot, it was to preserve hillsides. It was to preserve heights. And it was not to reflect on the particular application. And I think as we begin examining this application, we need to really focus on what was the vision, what was the intent, because that was what every single decision was based on from that point on. So that's my big speech. MAYOR SPECTOR: And to follow up on that, the other thing that we need to consider and keep in mind as we move through our thought process this evening is -- and I don't think too many people -- at least they don't say it, have mentioned there is a distinction between what the Specific Plan allows versus what the Specific Plan mandates. Now, within the Specific Plan, and because of the state law, yes, a certain number of homes are required. However, what is not mandated is the size of those homes. What is mandated is our examination of our architectural and site ordinance, which does allow us to look at site layout and architectural design. TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010342 1 1 x, ., x1. 237 Advantage �-Al "n Reporting Services, LLC I a, 19 K 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr. Rennie mentioned a new neighborhood. Well, that's not necessarily so. If we think back on the mission -- the vision statement that came from the Council in 2012, whatever I said, which is that the Council made a decision were we going to create a distinct district, or were we going to create a continuation of Los Gatos over Lark and to 85, and the decision we made with our vision statement and our guiding principles was the latter. So this is -- there are some mandates. The only mandates I see are the number of homes. After that, size, location, everything else, that is our decisions that we have the ability and authority to make here this evening. This is as quiet as we've been for days. COUNCIL MEMBER JENSEN: No, go ahead Rob. No, go ahead. MAYOR SPECTOR: Well, it's whoever I recognize. It's Mr. Rennie. COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So I was going to say at this late hour I'd make a motion that we continue till next Tuesday I think is the next scheduled one. I need some time to observe -- absorb all the information that we've collected today and figure out, you know, whether -- what a motion should look like. 238 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING f n$ age Reporting 0103, �n Services,LLLC i 1 I believe Staff didn't have answers to some 2 questions; is that correct? And maybe you'll be -- have 3 some of those? 4 MR. SCHULTZ: The only one I didn't answer. -- 5 yeah, the only one I didn't answer and then I did answer 6 it, and now I'm -- and conferred with Ms. Prevetti was 7 the question of if you denied the waiver and what would 8 happen in that scenario. So if you denied -- if you 9 approve the project without the waiver, without the 10 grading, they would have to -- they could make a choice 11 to do the project without that waiver, or they could 12 take that project, which is now approved a project, and 13 come in for a modification of that project asking for 14 one of the other concessions or waivers or incentives. i 15 That's how I think that would play out. ,m 16 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. 17 MR. SCHULTZ: I'm not sure if I answered that 18 one earlier tonight. 19 COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So it sounds like 20 there's no Staff question, so my motion still would be 21 to continue to next Tuesday in order to give us some 22 time to digest. 23 COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: I would second that. 24 MAYOR SPECTOR: We have a motion and a second 25 to continue to next Tuesday. I'm going to be opposing 239 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 010344::. Advantage Jn^ Reporting Services. LLC M F 1 2 [cl 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the motion. I'm opposing it because we still have time this evening, and because the only information in my mind that we received this evening was information from the Applicant, and there's nothing that the Applicant said that wasn't already before us or actually part of the original presentation. Further discussion on the motion? Mr. Leonardis. COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor Spector. Don't we have two days already picked out for future deliberation on this, and isn't next Tuesday's meeting supposed to be about regular Council business? MAYOR SPECTOR: The answer is -- COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Or am I asleep? MAYOR SPECTOR: The answer is yes and yes. Next Tuesday's meeting has the North 40 as an agenda item, and there are other items as potential just in case we finish with the North 40 today. So it is agendized for Tuesday, absent something extraordinary. COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you. MAYOR SPECTOR: Further discussion? Okay. Hearing none, we have a motion to continue this until next Tuesday. All in favor? (Ayes.) 240 TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage � M!Porting 010 3 5 I � . Services, LLC F E C 1C 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MAYOR SPECTOR: Opposed? No. May I -- motion passes four /one, Mayor voting no. So we're adjourned. (End of Meeting.) PX1il TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING Advantage _A T^ Reporting Services, LLC 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ® 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 LJ I, LISA GLANVILLE, C.S.R. #9932, a Certified do hereby certify: That the preceding,Video Transcription was taken down by me in shorthand to the best of my ability and thereafter reduced to computerized transcription under my direction and supervision, and I hereby certify the foregoing transcript is a full, true and correct transcript of my shorthand notes so taken. I further certify that I am neither counsel for nor related to any party to said action nor interested in the outcome of this ac1t__ion. ' +—h Witness my hand this _ day of October, 2016. -- ---------------- ANVILLE C 9932 State of California TRANSCRIPTION 08/11/16 TOWN COUNCIL MEETING 242 « Advantage S Reporting 01031,17 Services, LLC