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P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning Kendra Burch, Chair
Commissioners: Mary Badame, Vice Chair
Melanie Hanssen
D. Michael Kane
Tom O'Donnell
Joanne Talesfore
Community Development Laurel Prevetti
Director:
Planning Manager: Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Robert Schultz
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(510) 337-1558
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR BURCH: Now we are going to move back to
what was agendized Item 6, which is a public hearing to
consider adoption of amendments to Chapter 2, Constraints,
Analysis and Site Selection; and Chapter 5, Architectural
Design of Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines.
Mr. Paulson, I understand you're going to be
providing us the report on this.
JOEL PAULSON: I'll provide a brief report.
Before you this evening, as directed by Town Council, Staff
has prepared some proposed amendments to the Hillside
Development Standards and Guidelines for two specific topic
areas: the first being methodology for visibility analysis,
and the second being the opportunity for future homeowners
to use an LRV averaging option if the homes aren't visible
as defined by the Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines.
Staff has pointed out some questions for the
Commission to consider specifically relating to the
visibility methodology. Mr. Weissman has also provided some
other issues that the Commission can definitely address,
and above and beyond that, anything else that the
_g5
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I Commission has concerns about, we're here to answer
2 questions.
3 This will be a recommendation to the Town
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Council—this is not the final deciding body—and so any
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recommendation could include additional direction and that
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would get forwarded on to the Town Council when
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appropriate.
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9 CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Do we have any questions
10 of Staff at this time? Commissioner Kane, then Commissioner
11 O'Donnell.
12 COMMISSIONER KANE: Well, the obvious. What
13 you've provided on the sections you provided for me, for me
14 they're fine, but the question really is how do we proceed
is with respect to Dr. Weissman's letter? Do we ask you for a
16 rewrite? Do we say which ones we want to rewrite, or to
17 include or not include? He brings u excellent
g P points, and
is he puts more strength into the guidelines. How shall we
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proceed on the presumption that we want to incorporate
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those stronger provisions?
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JOEL PAULSON: If those are things that the
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23 Commission is interested in adding, then that would be part
24 of your direction to Town Council as part of your
zs recommendation, and whether it's all, some, similar to the
Tree Protection Ordinance. I think you'll probably remember
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Dr. Weissman had additional comments that weren't
originally incorporated into the Tree Protection Ordinance
amendments, but many of those the Commission decided to
forward on as part of their recommendation to the Town
Council.
COMMISSIONER KANE: So depending on our guidance,
will you then consider adopting and putting into the form
of the guidelines themselves, which would make it easier
for Town Council to approve?
JOEL PAULSON: Those would be part of the
amendments as the Planning Commission moves forward to the
Town Council. They would be receiving verbatim minutes, and
then also Staff would be outlining those proposed
modifications to the Town Council from the Planning
Commission.
COMMISSIONER KANE: So it would be prepared, but
they'd do a go, no go?
JOEL PAULSON: Correct.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I have two separate
points.
The first is a question which is relating to page
two where it says, "The following steps shall be taken in
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completing a view analysis," and if you move down about
four maybe, it says, "If determined necessary, three-
dimensional illustrations." It isn't clear to me,
determined by whom?
And if you go down another ... skip the next one and
go to the other one where they say, "Other locations as
deemed appropriate by the deciding body may be chosen." It
isn't clear to me when. So if I'm an applicant and I do
what I think is the law and I come in and you say guess
what, we're adding another viewing station, it seems sort
of unfair. Whereas if I file the application and you decide
you want a different viewing station, an additional viewing
station, and you tell me, that seems fair to me. Now, I
don't know if it's practical. So my two questions on that
are as I said.
Then the separate point is I think the comments
raised are very, very good. On the other hand, I think
they're worthy of some real consideration and I don't know
if this is the right time—it's certainly the right place—to
do it. Maybe it is. It's 10:00 o'clock, and I personally
would like to really discuss these things, notwithstanding
that I think they're a lot of very good suggestions, I
9on't necessarily think all of them are good suggestions,
Dut maybe I'm wrong. So I will throw out the question to my
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fellow commissioners really as to whether we should set up
a special time to consider these things and have a
discussion of them, or whether we should do it tonight?
But before we get to that, I would like to have a
question on those two paragraphs that I asked you about.
JOEL PAULSON: Sure. Those are both great points.
The Community Development Director would make the
determination, so we can add that clarification in there.
And secondly, with the view platform's
alternative locations, the existing guidelines actually
provide for that opportunity, so Staff would be looking on
a case-by-case basis. When an application comes in we would
go out to the platforms and look for visibility. If there's
something that came up with some recent projects where if
you move one way or the other some distance, then you have
visibility. So those are the determinations that Staff
would be making in conjunction with the Community
Development Director.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Let me make sure I
understood that. So if I have a project and I go out and do
whatever I do, and then you look at it and like one of the
things is all I can see is the Chevron sign, and you say
would you go out and go 150' down, is that the way it would
happen?
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JOEL PAULSON: That is the way it would happen.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: So it's possible that a
person would have done what they thought was what you
required, but that person would be also aware that if it's
crystal clear, that's probably where it's going to end, but
perhaps if it's not crystal clear you may ask for... I don't
know if you can ask for more than one, or certainly an
additional, viewing platform.
JOEL PAULSON: That's correct.
LAUREL PREVETTI: And to that point, if it would
be clearer, instead of it being determined by the deciding
body and note with the first star, that could also be
clarified to be as deemed appropriate by the Community
Development Director. So you don't have to wait until
you're before a deciding body and then you have to head
back out to the field.
CHAIR BURCH: I think that that's an excellent
suggestion.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: It sounds better now.
CHAIR BURCH: Yes. Commissioner Talesfore.
CHAIR TALESFORE: By the way, I think that sounds
better.
My question for that is when do the story poles
go up in the hillsides? If this additional viewing platform
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would be decided by the Community Development Director,
would the ten days before—I think it's ten days before -does
that give Staff or the Director enough time to say this
isn't going to work:
JOEL PAULSON: When story poles go up depends.
When a view analysis is necessary, then they would go up
much earlier than a hearing, because we'd have to do that
analysis prior to even setting a hearing.
CHAIR TALESFORE: Yes, thank you. I wanted to
clarify that.
So to Commissioner O'Donnell's point about this
discussion, I think this could be a very rich and deep
discussion. I think we could spend an hour just on
visibility. I think we could spend another hour on LRV
averaging. I like to suggest that we maybe set aside a
special meeting.
CHAIR BURCH: I agree, but we do have people that
have come to speak.
CHAIR TALESFORE: I'm not finished. But tonight I
think we could use our time wisely perhaps by asking any
questions we have prior to that next meeting, and listening
to the speakers and entertaining that. That's what I would
put forward.
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CHAIR BURCH: So I'm going to strongly suggest
that we have our speakers come in front of us, because I do
believe we're going to have quite a few questions for our
speakers. Following the speakers, I would like to then
reevaluate with the Commission timing, and if we do want to
continue it for a special meeting.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Let me just ask this
question. It strikes me that, for example, if I'm out there
and I want to speak, and at the end of the day we're going
to continue it for a study session, I guess if I'm a
speaker I'd rather speak at the study session than speak
now, because, for example, the comments that we have have
raised questions in my mind, but if the speaker doesn't
know what those questions are, it makes it difficult.
If, on the other hand, we're in study session and
we really go over all this stuff, and somebody then has an
opportunity to respond, perhaps it would be clearer.
CHAIR BURCH: So could Staff clarify that? We
could have speakers speak tonight, but we could also have
them speak at the study session?
JOEL PAULSON: Correct. They would be speaking at
both hearings.
MALE: (Inaudible).
CHAIR BURCH: No. Unfortunately not from...
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MALE: (Inaudible).
CHAIR BURCH: Unfortunately, you can't. We can't...
Sorry. My lawyer will get very upset at me if I do that.
So because they've sat here all evening, I'm
going to open the public portion. I'm going to listen to
the speakers and then let's discuss it. That also gives the
speakers as they come up, since they've heard this
dialogue, they can weigh in on it as they come in and speak
to us about coming to the study session.
So that being said, I'm opening the public
portion of this item and I'm going to call up Steve Abbs.
You have three minutes.
STEVE ABBS: Good evening, I'm Steve Abbs with
Davidon Homes.
As Mr. Weismann pointed out a month or so ago in
a Planning Commission hearing, the Hillside Development
Standards and Guidelines are a balance of property rights
and the goals and interests of the citizens of Los Gatos.
The Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines is a
document that the Town has put a lot of effort into.
we find it tough, but we find it fair and
workable as it exists today. we do find it a little unfair
that the rules are kind of changing as we're close to
getting these applications approved.
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But I think it's important that any amendments
(that are being done to the Hillside Development Standards
land Guidelines keep that balance of fairness. I think what
IMr. Weissman is proposing has a lot of unfairness with
regard to property rights. I do support the fact that if we
go do a study session I think Davidon, being probably one
of the most experienced in the visual analysis side of
things -we've probably done more visual analyses in the
history of this town -I think we have a lot of valuable
experience and I think we would definitely be interested in
providing some input with respect to that.
we also think that if there is a study session
that the Town Arborist should have some say in this thing.
I think again, what Mr. Weissman is coming up with, there
are a lot of things that we don't agree with, and I think
both sides definitely need to be heard on this.
When this was brought to Town Council, they
specifically... This is the only reason we're here, because
Town Council sent us to Staff. Staff was to get specific
clarification on the methodology regarding two things, one
being the viewing platform. Then also they had some
confusion on existing trees; what trees are going to be
removed and what trees are going to be impacted by
construction. we wanted to make sure that those were not
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part of the screening of the visual analysis. Those were
basically the two confused items that Council sent us back
to Staff for clarification.
I do want to quickly say that it is important
that the Commission keeps in mind that this visual analysis
is supposed to be taken from the naked eye, standing on a
viewing platform. The level of detail that Mr. Weissman
speaks of, trying to define twigs and leaves and dead
branches from 1.5 miles away, is just not practical in this
situation.
I support what Staff has recommended for the
methodology and I believe it is what we have been doing,
but again, we would like to offer our insight through this
process in making sure that these guidelines get amended
properly. Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Do we have any
questions? No? All right, our next speaker is Jeff Thayer.
JEFF THAYER: Steve made some good comments. I'm
Jeff Thayer with Davidon Homes, and we do feel like we're
on a little bit of quicksand here after 14 approvals in a
row, and we think we've done a great job up there, but we
welcome the opportunity to have...
My question is are we going to be able to have an
actual discussion here, or are we going to have to go in
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1 1three-minute increments, or how is that going to work in a
2 Istudy session?
3 I LAUREL PREVETTI: Typically it is in three-minute
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increments.
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JEFF THAYER: In a study session too?
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LAUREL PREVETTI: Yes.
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JEFF THAYER: Because we can't get ... we just can't
have a analysis.
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to
LAUREL PREVETTI: Right.
11 CHAIR BURCH: Unless of course people have
12 questions.
13 LAUREL PREVETTI: Well, let us work with our Town
14 Attorney to figure out a methodology, because I'm sure
15 you're not the only one who would like to have more of a
16 dialogue with the Commission.
17 JEFF THAYER: Absolutely, absolutely.
is
LAUREL PREVETTI: I think our challenge is how do
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deliberation opportunity. So we'll work with our Town
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Attorney. Thank you.
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CHAIR BURCH: Question?
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24 VICE CHAIR BADAME: I would like to comment that
zs we always welcome written correspondence.
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JEFF THAYER: Which you will get when you set
your date and all that.
I did have a little brain teaser for you, and I
don't want to get you all mad at me, but as I look down at
the bullet points, it says, "A visible home is defined as a
single-family residence where 25% or more of an elevation
can be seen from the Town's established viewing platforms."
And then down at the bottom there's a little three -star
asterisk to that, and it says, "Percentages shall be
rounded to the nearest whole number." So if our calculation
shows exactly 24.5%, do you round down or do you round up?
If you round up, we're out of compliance. If you round
down, we're in. If it's 25.01%, we're out of compliance. Do
you know what I'm saying?
That was just really kind of tongue in cheek, but
it's kind of an example of when we're going into these
things. I'm sure that was meant to be a simplification, but
in fact it's something subject to abuse, and if we don't
get this kind of alteration of the rules correct and fair
you're going to create a situation that is far more
complicated in the future than it is today.
CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Any questions? No? Dr.
(Weissman.
COMMISSIONER OIDONNELL: One question.
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CHAIR BURCH: Okay, yes.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Isn't it anywhere up to
24.4, you round down; 25.5 you round up? I mean that's what
I learned in grammar school, so I don't know.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Madam Chair?
CHAIR BURCH: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KANE: The point is excellent, and
maybe the language could be rewritten to 24.5% or more.
What else do you want to round? You don't want to round
19.215. You just want to know whether or not you got 25%.
So change the 25% to 24.5.
CHAIR BURCH: Yes, and I think that that's a
point that we will add in. All right, next speaker.
DAVID WEISSMAN: Dave Weissman, Francis Oaks.
I trust that all Commissioners have had the
opportunity to read my Exhibit 4 letter of September 15`h. I
am happy to answer any questions that you may have in
reference to that letter.
But first I would like to quote for emphasis one
particularly important and relevant section of the Hillside
Standards as you consider what items you may want to add to
the Staff draft. One page 13 of the Hillside Standards, it
says, and I quote: "Potential," as it relates to
visibility, "is defined as capable of being seen from a
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viewing platform if trees or large shrubs are removed,
significantly pruned, or impacted by construction."
These items are already included in the Hillside
Standards, and you have been asked by the Town Council to
consider incorporating these and other potential areas
discussed by the Town Council at their May 2015 meeting;
and there were many more issues discussed than the two that
Mr. Abbs just referenced.
while some of these issues have subjective
components, we can provide better guidance for Staff and
developers that are consistent with the goals of the
Hillside Standards; and one of the reasons the rounding off
was employed, because these are some subjective things.
As the hour is already late, may I suggest a
possible action so that you don't have to wordsmith this
document tonight? I propose that should you find merit in
some or all of the eight categories that I have discussed
in my letter, four of which are listed on page three of the
Staff Report, that you select those items and direct Staff
to work with me on specific language to codify these? Staff
and I did a similar successful collaboration on the recent
Tree Protection Ordinance revision, and I see no reason why
we couldn't have a revised draft for the next Planning
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Commission meeting. I think this should come back to the
Planning Commission before going to the Town Council.
I first brought up these issues on May 19, 2015.
I have offered to work with Davidon on some of them, and we
haven't gotten anywhere.
Mr. Abbs expressed concern about the fact that
dead twigs ... he talked about removino dead twigs, and so
forth. Well, in fact those dead twigs have been used in the
visibility analysis done by Davidon's architect to count as
screening.
Davidon has also put forth the issue of fire
control. Well, it says in the Hillside Standards that one
issue of fire control is to remove dead twigs.
CHAIR BURCH: All right, thank you. Do we have
any questions? No? All right. Our last speaker is Michael
Keaney.
MICHAEL KEANEY: Thank you, Madam Chair and
Members of the Commission. My name is Michael Keaney; I'm
with Summer Hill Homes and I am the project manager for the
project that we have under construction at the Sisters of
the Holy Name site on Prospect Road.
We've been under construction for most of this
year. We're finishing up the site improvements here in the
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next month or two, and we expect to start construction on
the first home in October, next month.
We are supportive of the proposed amendments to
(Section 1.2 of Chapter 5 to allow LRV averaging for non-
visible homes that Staff is proposing, and ask that you
make a recommendation to the Town Council to adopt this
revision.
We are aware of the fact that there is another
Ipiece of this that is more complicated with the view
corridor analysis, and our project is not subject to that
requirement, and I'm sure there are other projects besides
ours that are not.
The LRV averaging was part of the Davidon
project. I believe you reviewed it at that time and thought
that it was a good alternative for projects that were not
visible from the viewing platforms, and Council had the
opinion and recommended that that amendment be adopted for
all projects that could qualify for it.
I think there is a consensus around this as an
improvement to the guidelines, and as a project that is
currently under construction we would like the benefit of
that improved guideline really as soon as possible; we're
going to be starting construction and it seems silly not to
implement something that everyone agrees is an improvement.
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So while it may take a while to address the view
analysis issue, I would hope that there might be an
opportunity to move forward the LRV averaging. Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Do we have any
questions? No? All right, thank you. I don't have any other
cards, so I am going to close the public portion of this
discussion.
I do want to bring up that I think the last
speaker had a good point, so I'd like to ask my
Commissioners, I think a lot of our concerns do come from
the view, and do we also want the study session to include
the averaging, or how do we feel about the color averaging?
Do we want to break those apart? Keep them together? I just
want to get everybody's feel for that. Commissioner
Talesfore.
CHAIR TALESFORE: Absolutely we need to spend
time with color averaging. Absolutely, and it should be
included in the meeting.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I wanted to respond to
the suggestion that we do some drafting before we have the
meeting, and personally I would find that to be either
counterproductive or unfair. We're all saying we need some
time to educate ourselves and to hear not only from Staff,
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which is very helpful, but perhaps hear some conflicting
views and to take our time and to think about it. If we
were to now say to Staff, grab this one, that one, and this
one, personally I would not feel well enough armed to do
that, and that's the whole purpose of the study session. So
I don't see how we can say go ahead and start drafting some
things before we consider what we're doing and maybe that
will help us, because then that means well maybe Davidon or
something else should be doing their counter -proposal
drafts. It just to me seems a waste of time.
CHAIR BURCH: Okay. Any other comments? So, do we
want to set a study session to dive into this, and set a
date? All right.
CHAIR TALESFORE: It doesn't have to be on a
Wednesday, right? I mean I would entertain another day.
CHAIR BURCH: I think as long as we agree.
CHAIR TALESFORE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Wednesday would be
(inaudible).
CHAIR BURCH: Wednesday is preferred? But it does
not have to be a Planning Commission night, right? I mean
we could do a different Wednesday. So if you're looking at
just the Planning Commission dates, I don't think that
we're tied to those.
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JOEL PAULSON: There are a number of options. If
we're going to go into a study session we can start the
Planning Commission early and do the study session before,
which is one option.
Moving forward just to get the study session
going if we're not going to go through and hear initial
comments, then we can probably do something maybe as early
as the 21" on an off Planning Commission night, or the 28th
if we want to do it before a Planning Commission; just two
suggestions.
CHAIR TALESFORE: You're looking at October?
JOEL PAULSON: Correct.
CHAIR TALESFORE: Do we have to wait that long?
JOEL PAULSON: I think we can look at the 7th or
the 14th; whatever the Planning Commission is interested in,
we can start that study session. We have to make sure that
any additional information we're going to prepare, we have
time to do that.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: What were the dates?
JOEL PAULSON: The 21Bt 28th any of the probably
Wednesdays in October.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: I believe October 7th this is
reserved for the Victim Services Unit.
JOEL PAULSON: So 14th, 215L, or 28th
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: We also don't want
(inaudible) maybe at 4:00 o'clock on certain Wednesdays.
JOEL PAULSON: Great point. So that would take
the 28`h off.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Leaving the 14`h.
JOEL PAULSON: 14`h or 218L
CHAIR TALESFORE: (Inaudible) before the Planning
Commission.
CHAIR BURCH: Yeah.
JOEL PAULSON: That's right, the 14`h we have
Conceptual Development Advisory Committee, so we're looking
at the 218`.
CHAIR BURCH: Right. Yup. Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMITTEE MEMBER HANSSEN: I know we've set the
first date for the Planned Development Ordinance, and
that's next Wednesday.
JOEL PAULSON: That's September 30th
COMMITTEE MEMBER HANSSEN: No other meetings have
been set yet, so that's not going to be an issue?
JOEL PAULSON: Correct. We can work around that.
CHAIR BURCH: All right.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: We're talking the 21"?
CHAIR BURCH: 218C of October.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: At what time?
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JOEL PAULSON: We'd probably start a study
session at 6:00, or we can start it at 7:00, if that works
better for Commissioners' schedules.
CHAIR BURCH: Earlier. Six is fine. Everyone's
looking at me because I (inaudible).
CHAIR TALESFORE: Wait a minute. Study session at
6:00 on the same night as a...
CHAIR BURCH: No, it would be the 21s`
CHAIR TALESFORE: Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Yeah. Oh, no.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: As a heads up, I may not be
able to make that.
COMMISSIONER KANE: The day or the time?
VICE CHAIR BADAME: The time. But go ahead and
plan accordingly. I'm just one person.
CHAIR BURCH: Well, what time is better?
COMMISSIONER KANE: What time is better?
CHAIR TALESFORE: Which time is better for you.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: It would have to be a
different date, or even earlier, if it was maybe 4:30 and
we're out of here by 6:00.
CHAIR BURCH: Well, you guys?
CHAIR TALESFORE: I could do that.
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CHAIR BURCH: I mean I could get out earlier,
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I don't think an hour -
and -a -half is going to do it.
CHAIR TALESFORE: But you could be here for most
of it.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Yes.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I was going to say maybe
we should put not only a beginning, but an end. But
personally I think two hours is...
CHAIR BURCH: Let's slate it for two hours.
O'DONNELL: 4:00.
CHAIR BURCH: Well, we need to know about Staff's
day too.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Right.
CHAIR BURCH: With that much notice, I know I can
do it, I can leave early, but what about you guys? Okay, so
let's do it on the 2180 for now. That's what we're slated
for, 4:00 to 6:00.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: 4:00 to 6:00?
CHAIR BURCH: Yup.
JOEL PAULSON: And so we'll also tomorrow check
availability to make sure there's no other conflicting
meetings here that evening. If there are, then we will poll
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(Commissioners for alternative dates and then make sure that
we inform the public through What's New, and then obviously
the speakers that are here tonight, we will inform them
directly.
CHAIR BURCH: A point was brought up as part of
this study session. Could we bring the Town Arborist in on
this, too?
JOEL PAULSON: Definitely.
CHAIR BURCH: Okay. I think having multiple
viewpoints would be very beneficial. Okay. Does anyone have
another other comments for that? All right, we will
continue that to the 216t at 4:00. Yes?
COMMISSIONER KANE: Can these guys give
(inaudible)?
CHAIR BURCH: I'd have to open up the public
portion to do that. I'm going to let Staff coordinate that
and let us know.
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