Attachment 11
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Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Planning Manager:
Town Attorney:
Transcribed by:
A P P E A R A N C E S:
Kendra Burch, Chair
Mary Badame, Vice Chair
Charles Erekson
Melanie Hanssen
D. Michael Kane
Tom O'Donnell
Joanne Talesfore
Joel Paulson
Robert Schultz
Vicki L. Blandin
(510) 337 -1558
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Item #4, Town Code Amendment A -15 -003 ATTACHMENT 1
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR BURCH: We are now on to Item 4, Town Code
Amendment A -15 -003, a public hearing to consider adoption
of amendments to Section 29.10.145 of Chapter 29, Zoning
Regulations, of the Town Code allowing businesses to charge
for valet parking services within private parking lots. Ms.
Lampros? No, sorry. I don't know why I wrote the wrong name
down tonight.
MONICA RENN: Both of us are here. I'm just going
to start with the opening comments.
CHAIR BURCH: Okay, thank you.
MONICA RENN: Before you tonight is the draft
ordinance to allow businesses to begin charging for the
valet service in their private lots. This amendment was
drafted at the request of the Council, given the requests
that they've been receiving from business owners.
Currently valet is allowed to be offered in
private lots, but it may not be for a higher fee than the
Town charges, which is currently nothing. The suggested
amendments would still require a Parking Lot Permit to be
obtained and would allow for the property and /or business
owner to work with a commercially licensed valet vendor to
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1 obtain the permit. Upon approval and issuance, they could
2 then charge for that service.
3 Staff did quite a bit of benchmarking with
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similar ordinances and other jurisdictions, and we prepared
that draft language in your report to include several of
those provisions that must be met by all the stakeholders.
We want to draw your attention particularly to, depending
on who the applicant is, that the property owner or the
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to business owner, and any other business that shares that
11 lot, be in agreeance to the application for the permit. We
12 also found that there was no other jurisdictions in our
13 benchmarking that did not allow the businesses to charge.
14 The Town recognizes the value of valet, because
15 it increases the availability of parking without increasing
16 the physical real estate for parking spaces, and in fact
17 offers our own valet service during the holiday peak hours,
18 and again, that's offered complimentary.
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This concludes our report, and both Lynne Lampros
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and I are, and then members from the Town Attorney's office
and Planning, are here to answer your questions tonight.
CHAIR BURCH: All right, Commissioner Badame.
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VICE CHAIR BADAME: Can you provide the examples
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zs of the neighboring communities that you surveyed that have
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a similar draft ordinance? Because I haven't seen any
around here.
LYNNE LAMPROS: Good evening, Commissioners.
Campbell does not have one; they have no valet parking on
the books. But Saratoga, San Jose, Palo Alto, and San Mateo
are communities in the area that do.
Specifically with regard to Saratoga and San
Jose, as they are close, they allow valet parking with no
comment as to charge or no charge, so they are not tying it
to any one business, and they are not offering it for free
at the expense of the City. They are letting the vendor
come in, provide the service, and charge for it.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: I have one more question, if
I may, Madam Chair? This is probably for Monica Renn. What
is the cost to operate the valet service in December for
Lot 4? So we know what the businesses are looking at cost -
wise, if they can turn a profit in doing this. Can you give
us an idea?
MONICA RENN: Sure. We do a Not to Exceed
Agreement; I believe it's roughly $24,000. We do that as a
Not to Exceed, because there are some days where, for
example, two years ago it was like 30 degrees at night and
we found that people 'weren't out there, so we would stop
the valet service and we only pay for what we have. So we
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don't exceed that amount, and oftentimes it's closer to the
$18,000 mark.
But again, that's from Thanksgiving through
Christmas Eve, so it's about a month, and it's offered
about three to four days a week, depending on the closer
you get to the holidays.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: You had something you wanted to
add?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: I'll point out one of the major
differences between the ordinances that we looked at —and we
didn't just look in this area, we looked at some even
within the state and even out of the state to come up with
some of this language —the one issue that we did not address
that is in a lot of them, that you will find in Saratoga
and the other cities, they actually allow the valet stand
to be in the right -of -way, to be in the street to allow you
to pull up out in front. We at this time felt like we
weren't ready to go to that level yet, because we're
certainly not sure about the secondary effects that could
occur. But I just wanted to point out to you, if you look
at most of those ordinances, they also not only allow on
their site but also would allow it in their right -of -way.
CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Commissioner Talesfore.
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I'm not sure whom this
would be addressed to.
I was expecting in the Staff Report that we would
have a list of the possible parking lots, and I don't see
that, and it makes it really difficult to make an informed
decision without knowing that. That's one question I have.
The other question is how will this affect the
Parking Assessment District? How will these be counted? Or
how will they not be counted?
And then I have a third question; I'll just throw
it out there. How was this idea brought to us? Did a
business owner bring it to us, or was this just something
that the Council thought out, I don't know?
MONICA RENN: I'll address two of those
questions, and then I'm going to bounce the Parking
Assessment District over to Joel, because he has better
history on that.
The Council asked for this because of requests
from specific businesses in the community, two of which I
know of would be Hult's Restaurant on Highway 9, and then
Dio Deka has also requested to do this.
We do have a map of the Parking Assessment
District that we can put up on the screen for you. The
reason why we don't have a list of parking lots is because
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this is a very Staff - intensive thing to do, and what we
have found is that some places have three spots on their
property and some places have 23 spots on their property.
So what we would do is we would look to those permit
applications when they came in through the DRC and vet out
is this a space that would even work? Would it be something
that causes some sort of blockage of public right -of -way or
cause any other concern?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: With the Hult's application, I
think that's one to look at, what they were thinking there
is they would actually have the valet in their parking lot,
but their parking lot would still be used at Hult's for
people to pull in and not use valet if they didn't want to,
and if you wanted to valet, then you'd go across the street
and park at the parking lot. They had a shared agreement
for the valet cars, so they weren't losing any parking
whatsoever for their restaurant, but it would provide an
extra service if someone wanted to park at Hult's.
So that's that application. I'm not sure how Dio
Deka was going to do theirs; I'm not familiar with that
application.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Can you remind me where
Hult's parking lot is? I'm going to assume it's adjacent to
the building.
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ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: It's not adjacent behind
the building; it's to the side?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: South side of the building.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: South side, okay. I just
wanted to be clear. These are things that I think we need
to know.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: But that application, when it
came in, as Monica mentioned, would have to show that it
could work from a fire standpoint, a handicap standpoint,
and that it wasn't going to impact the parking spaces that
were already designated under the Assessment District.
Probably one of the best scenarios is if a business can
find a shared parking agreement at night and this was a
bank that's not using it; that allows them not only to fill
their parking lot up with cars, but also to valet extra
parking spaces instead of spilling out into the
neighborhoods.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: May I just ask, who owns
the parking lot between Cin -Cin and Hult's?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: That's a Town lot.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Town lot. Thank you.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: And he wouldn't be able to valet
cars in there.
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I COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Right, I know that.
2 Thank you.
3 CHAIR BURCH: All right, I saw Commissioner
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Hanssen, then Commissioner Kane.
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COMMISSONER HANSSEN: You answered part of my
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question about the Council having an interest in this.
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I used to sit on the Transportation and Parking
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Commission for a few years, and I know that we had heard a
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to proposal from some merchants that were around the high
11 school to do similar, because of the parking problems at
12 the high school, so I generally think this is a great idea.
13 I wondered if the Transportation and Parking Commission has
14 seen this?
15 MONICA RENN: They have not seen this
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17 COMMISSONER HANSSEN: Is there a reason why they
18 wouldn't have seen this? Because they're supposed to be
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making recommendations to Council on things to do. I just
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was curious.
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MONICA RENN: There is no specific reason why. It
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was just a work item that came from the Council. I would
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zs guarantee that that has been brought to them.
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COMMISSONER HANSSEN: Then the other thing I was
wondering was I like the idea of the permit process. Is
there a time limit to the permit? Because supposing that
things didn't go the way we hoped that they would, I
wondered if you gave them a permit to do it? It should have
an end date to it, so that if you needed to change
something that you could.
MONICA RENN: That's certainly language that you
could draft. There is the question of does it run with just
the operator? Do we do a yearly renewal? We would require
full indemnification and insurance and all of that, so that
would have to be updated every year anyway, so we could
certainly do some sort of review process.
COMMISSONER HANSSEN: At least initially while
this is new, a year seemed like a good idea to me. I don't
know if the rest will agree.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Kane.
COMMISSIONER KANE: I wanted to share two
personal experiences; one is Saratoga. I'd been going over
to Saratoga to a restaurant a long time ago, and I knew
where to park; I knew where to park behind the main street.
What was annoying is when they got valet parking it would
change across all of those parking places. I don't see it
in writing here, but because we don't have that map I can't
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janticipate a specific complaint, but I'd be real sensitive
Ito exactly where are you going to put up those chains and
where are you going to have the valet parking? Because that
Ican turn people off and ruin the evening before it starts.
Second considerations are complicated, but when I
did valet parking, as a valet parker, we spent a lot of
time trying to make change. We spent a lot of time trying
to deal with the monetary. What we haven't regulated, and
maybe we shouldn't, but I think it would make life simple
if we retained the can charge no more than the Town, which
right now is zero, to a reasonable and customary number of
can charge no more then the Town, and the Town charged $10,
or $15, or whatever the real number is, but keep it round:
$10, $20, $25, so the exchanges are quick. A lot of people
don't carry cash, but they can anticipate how much they're
going to need if we have one simple number, and that number
can be determined by people who know what that number
should be.
And there also should be a policy of no tipping,
because that complicates and extends the exchange. I'm
looking at Pony Express where in and out, move, move, move,
and the guy's going to run and bring back the car, and they
ought to bet $10, or $20, whatever the right number is.
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I would defer to anybody who's got a better idea,
but I think we ought to have a number. I think it ought to
be a round number. I don't think it should cost the
business money to run this operation, but I don't think
they should be making a $1.98 profit on it. Figure out what
a round number is, so that I know if I'm coming to town for
dinner I need an extra ten bucks, and I'll keep it in my
shirt pocket, make the exchange quick.
I don't mean to be micro managing, but answer
those questions for the consumer before he or she even gets
there, and then they know what to do. They hand over $10 or
$20, there's no tipping awkwardness, keep it simple. Thank
you.
MONICA RENN: I can certainly address your first
question about the chains. Those would be things that we
could address in the Parking Lot Permit. So if there were
concerns about a thoroughfare, or if, for example, looking
at Hult's, a lot of people will pull into Hult's and then
pull into the muni lot from there. If they requested a
chain, that's certainly something the DRC can consider at
that Parking Permit level. I didn't know that that was a
question.
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COMMISSIONER KANE: And the second one about the
monetary. Have you considered? Would you consider? Should
you consider?
MONICA RENN: I think that would be up for the
Planning Commission and the Council to consider. I think
market rates are going to vary, and if you put a rate in
the code it could become a challenge based on we have a
parking garage that we're looking at now. There are a lot
of variables in there, so I don't know how exactly that
would work, but it's certainly your ability to make that
recommendation to the Council.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: We actually have a card from the
public, but I called on a couple of people I saw raise
hands before I got it, so I'm actually going to call them
up. So Brayton Gosling. When you get up, make sure you pull
the microphone close, state your name. You've got three
minutes.
BRAYTON GOSLING: Good evening, my name is
Brayton Gosling; I'm the current hotel manager over at
Hotel Los Gatos. I've been with the hotel for about six
years, so I've seen our far share of parking over the
course of the time.
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At our hotel we have 72 guest rooms and only 101
parking spots, so valet is necessary for us in the evening,
particularly with Dio Deka on property; it's a very popular
restaurant in the area, as well as they also do events
constantly on property, which is great. It does not take
much for our lot to fill up very quickly, so that's why we
bring in the valet.
One of the big pushes has been for us to try to
have a way to offset some of these costs with the valet
parking. It's roughly for us about $18.50 an hour per valet
that we have in the evening, so on a busy night if they
have three valets running, it can get quite expensive quite
fast.
In terms of being able to set a monetary
threshold, certainly it could happen to make sense. In
terms of tipping though, I think that would really
discourage folks, especially young folks who want to be
valets, that rely on that extra income, knowing friends
that are valets that depend on that.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Pay them a decent wage. The
tipping can drive some of us crazy.
BRAYTON GOSLING: Absolutely. Since we do use the
third party vendors though, that is up to the third party
vendor to determine their wages for the folks.
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CHAIR BURCH: All right, thank you. Do you have
any other questions? Commissioner Talesfore.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Do you park all the cars
Ionsite?
BRAYTON GOSLING: Currently, yes, we do park all
Icars on site.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Currently. And if you
didn't? Have you ever had an overflow?
BRAYTON GOSLING: There have been small amounts
of overflow in the past, yes. Our valets are pretty adept
at double - parking cars in ways that keep the fire lanes
open on property. And if there was a need, they may spill
out into the street, yes. That could happen, particularly
with the high -end clientele that we get there at the
property. We do want our guests to not have to walk far
from our property, particularly ladies in heels; that would
be inconvenient for them and a disadvantage.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: So you see continuing
just parking onsite?
BRAYTON GOSLING: That is our goal. We don't
expect any increases in our event load occupancies, or
anything like that, so we're not seeing a huge impact on
that.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Okay, thank you.
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CHAIR BURCH: Any other questions? Commissioner
Erekson.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: The draft doesn't address
the charges for valet parking. This is a question that I'm
going to ask the Staff, too, in a minute.
If there were varying rates in the town, and the
delta of those rates was significant, let's say by a
hundred percent —some places were a dollar and some were
two; I'm using those examples to illustrate the delta;
obviously they would be higher than that if they were
twenty versus forty or something —is there a moment at which
time it wouldn't be in the overall interest to have great
variation in those charges, and therefore that would have a
dampening effect on the business district from a
reputational sense, or would cause issues between
businesses in the Town that would suggest that the Town
should make some attempt at regulating the... I'm talking
about from not the Town's standpoint, but from looking
after the vitality (inaudible).
BRAYTON GOSLING: As a business, when you go up
to hotels in large cities, even downtown San Jose, it's not
uncommon to pay for parking. People expect to pay for
parking when they go to a property. So for us, being where
we're located, I couldn't speak to any other business.
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1 we're pretty isolated away from a lot of the other
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3 I COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Can I reframe my question?
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I'm not talking about charging for it, I'm talking about
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deltas between... So if one business that has valet parking
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is charging $20, another is charging $40, another is
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charging $60, would there be an issue between merchants, if
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you would, in the Town if we ended up with large variances
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between them?
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11 BRAYTON GOSLING: I think it kind of goes to the
12 caliber of property, perhaps. A property like Hotel Los
13 Gatos would maybe charge a premium for parking, whereas a
14 property like the Toll House may not charge the same rates,
15 just because of the clientele that they're drawing.
16 COMMISSIONER KANE: Well, excuse the Toll House.
17 BRAYTON GOSLING: This is not meant to be a jab.
18 Sorry.
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COMMISSIONER EREKSON: No, no, it's okay. So
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you're suggesting that by your example, and I don't worry
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about the other ones that you used, that it's in all
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likelihood if there were a variance, that you might be on
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zs concluded from you, you said without worrying about the
other examples that you used. And you're okay with that and
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you don't think that would cause issues between you and
other merchants in the Town?
BRAYTON GOSLING: I don't foresee it as
(inaudible).
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Mr. Paulson, I don't
think you addressed the Parking Assessment District.
JOEL PAULSON: I did not.
TALESFORE: Would you feel like
enlightening us?
CHAIR BURCH: Oh, we still have the speakers. I
thought you had a question for the speaker.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: No.
CHAIR BURCH: If we have no more questions for the
speaker, thank you very much. I will close the public
portion, and now we will go back to asking questions of
Staff. Commissioner Talesfore.
JOEL PAULSON: So, Ms. Talesfore, in relation to
the Parking Assessment District, typically the whole reason
for the valet is to get more cars on the site. It wouldn't
affect the parking spaces. The only time that would be a
problem is if they're taking away parking spaces that are
required onsite. The Parking Assessment District spaces, as
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1 you know, are located throughout all of the Town parking
2 lots, so they wouldn't be impacting those, because we
3 wouldn't be allowing them to park on Town parking lots, so
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I don't foresee an issue with Parking Assessment District
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credits or parking spaces.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: And would there ever be
shared parking on one site? Paid valet versus non -paid
valet?
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to JOEL PAULSON: I think those are things that
11 we'll have to look at on a case -by -case basis depending on
12 the parking lot, and I think that's where some of this
13 charging and tipping conversation is different if you have
14 a three -space parking lot versus a 50 -space parking lot.
15 That's something that definitely can be part of your
16 recommendation, but until we actually see what those look
17 like, we're not going to know. But I imagine there will be
18 circumstances where they'll have areas where people can
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self -park versus valet park in certain circumstances.
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I just have two
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questions, and one is about this wasn't vetted with the
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Transportation and Parking Commission. I wonder, did any of
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this go out to the residents? Have we vetted this idea with
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25 residents? We have such a strong commitment to community
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participation in a lot of our issues, and I could see that
this would be important.
MONICA RENN: This has been noticed through the
public noticing process that we always use, so it's been
posted as any other agenda would be. There has been no
other specific outreach specifically looking at charging
versus not charging.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Then I had one other
question. This is a pretty basic question. I still don't
understand quite how this is going to work. So tell me,
would a place like Old Town be able to have paid valet
parking during the day and night?
MONICA RENN: Yes, they could.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Then how does that
create more parking for Los Gatos?
MONICA RENN: Currently Old Town asks you to only
park there if you're patronizing their businesses, and when
there are special events in town they even have a parking
attendant out there making sure that you're coming in to
patronize their business, and that's certainly something
they can do, as that is their private lot.
It would create more spaces in that when you
valet park you do something called "stacking cars," so
sometimes they get twice as many cars in one space. It's
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creating more parking in that people who are now eating at
the Wine Cellar or eating at California Cafe are staying
within Federal Realty, who is the property owner there,
staying without their property to park, and they're not
taking a space on the street that now someone could take if
they're going to, say, The Lexington House for dinner. So
that's how it creates more parking.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: A follow up to that is
would Federal Realty or any of these places consider having
a validation?
MONICA RENN: I can't speak specifically for
Federal. I know that when we spoke with Mr. Hult, it was
something that he had thought about; if you eat in a
restaurant, there's maybe a validation system. I think it's
something that these business owners haven't explored,
because it hasn't been a option for them, so it hasn't been
something they've spent time looking at.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell, then
Commissioner Erekson, and then Commissioner Kane.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: On the draft, on page
five of the report, beginning with number one, when you
come down to Inn, and it says, "Prior to the issuance of
the permit, furnish the Town with liability and property
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damage insurance." Assuming this is an ordinance, how does
one determine what kind of insurance you have, liability
and property? Is it $100,000, is it a $1 million? What is
it, and how do we know?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: We have standards that have been
set by policy with the Town, and we have that for any of
the businesses that have to indemnify us.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Wouldn't you reference
that, then?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yeah, we can do that.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: When you read it, it's
like what are they talking about? Then if you look down to
0, "Private valet parking is approved by the development,"
blah, blah, blah. "The Development Review Committee shall
have the discretion to deny it." I don't know what
discretion it rests upon. What is the standard that they
could deny? I mean if it's arbitrary, you and I both know
that's a bit of a problem, so I suggest to you that we come
up with something that would be enforceable.
And then my other issue is it might be solved
with a one -year permit, but there's no provision in here to
rescind or remove a permit, so if a guy's got a permit and
he's not doing good things, we don't provide how you take
it away. So I'd like us to think about that.
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Then finally, just a comment. I love Hult's
restaurant; it's very, very nice. Their parking lot is
totally inadequate, but it's more than most people have, so
I'm not criticizing it. But if they start charging for
valet, what's the point of having that parking lot? I mean
if you're going to allow people to charge you for their
parking because it's "valet," you're going to find that all
the free parking in town is going to disappear, because if
it's a parking lot of any size, why wouldn't you have a
valet? It would be like no free parking; you can't do other
than valet. So the guy's got 50 spots, there are ten cars
there, and you've got a valet. That changes the whole thing
of Town.
I think if we're going to try to solve a problem,
I'm all for that, but if we're trying to create a problem,
I have a problem with that. I can tell you from my
experience, if you can find a parking spot at Hult's, good
luck. I occasionally will find one spot. If they're going
to use valet, yeah, they can put more spots in there, I
suppose, but I just wonder what is the point of this thing?
There is a good point, but I don't think it's to provide
money to people... If I can't find a parking spot in Hult's,
I find a parking spot someplace else and I walk.
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Now you're going to say well let's triple -space
in Hult's and we're going to charge for it. You're shaking
your head no, but that's all I'm hearing. So somebody wants
a recommendation from us, I find it's very vague and it's
not clear at all.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: We wrestled with those exact
same issues that you're wrestling with, and those can be
issues that I think the DRC is going to have to wrestle
with and you might see some of those on appeals.
With Hult's, let me explain a little bit better
than that. His model is that you can still park free in his
lot. When the lot fills up or if there's...
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: (Inaudible) triple-
spacing.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: No, he's not triple- spacing
there at all. When you want a valet, he goes across the
street to the bank with your car and parks in the valet.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: You have a rule that
says he can't... You just told us a minute ago...
ROBERT SCHULTZ: That would be part of his
conditions. His conditions are his lot is still being used
for the free parking lot, so that would be part of his
conditions.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Will everybody have
those conditions?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes, everyone would have to have
Ithose conditions.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Then how do we get
triple - parking in?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: For that he wouldn't even need to
triple -park, because he's over at the bank building where
there's plenty of parking, but you could triple -park over
at the bank across the street.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Take the hotel. At the
moment they've got a lot of parking, and we just heard hey,
we could really solve the big problems, because we'll
triple -park. Now, if you said no, you can't triple -park,
because Tom comes in and he likes to park his own car and
you want to charge him $10 for a valet you may or may not
need. I don't think you're addressing those issues.
And the fact that Hult's at the moment goes to a
lot is great, but why would he go to the lot if he can
triple -park and maybe make a profit at it? I'm not against
people making a profit, but if we're making a situation....
We have a lot of parking in town. I almost never
have to walk, but I almost never cannot find a parking
spot. I think it's great to triple -park, but not if it
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means the people that normally would have parked there must
pay no matter what; if it's empty or not, they still have
to pay to use a valet. I'd go to Campbell a lot.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Erekson, then
Commissioner Kane, and then Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: I'll make one comment in
response to what Commissioner O'Donnell was saying, and
then I have three questions for the Staff.
It's not my problem to solve. As a Planning
Commissioner, or if I were on the Town Council, it wouldn't
necessarily be my problem to solve if Alex Hult decides to
charge valet parking, whether it's detrimental or a
positive to his business. That's a business question for
him. And if he pisses you off and you don't ever...
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: (Inaudible).
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell, I'm going
to ask that it stay to the person who has the questions,
because I think there's a lot of dialogue that needs to
happen here.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Anyway, so I want to be
sure I understand a couple things. In sections L and N, I'm
inferring from it that in fact the permit runs with the
permittee, and it runs specifically with the business, if I
understand M and I understand L correctly. So not with the
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owner of the property, but I would conclude that it runs
with the person operating the business.
MONICA RENN: We actually call out in the first I
believe A that it could be a property owner, and we did
that, for example, for Federal Realty. If they wanted to do
it as a property owner, but they would have to have the
agreeance of every tenant there.
We did consider the same thing that you're
talking about. If you have four businesses that share a
parking lot and a property owner wants to do it, you would
want all four businesses on board, because if one of those
businesses does not want the paid valet, then you have that
conundrum to consider. That's why we've written it in here
that if it is the property owner, even if it is one of the
businesses... So if the Wine Cellar wanted to offer paid
valet in the evening, they would need all the other people
to be in agreeance.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Right. Section L talks
about the permittee's hours of operation; so to use your
example, there could be different hours. There are
different hours of operation between that, so one might
want to look at the language to be sure that it's clear,
because I was concluding it was the business owner.
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Then in Section O it talks about the ability of
the DRC —if none of the criteria are met, which is fine, so
that leaves the discretion, so there's a set of criteria in
there —and it says it has the ability to revoke the Parking
Permit with so many days notice, but it doesn't say on what
basis that it could. I don't know what the right language
is, but without stated otherwise, presumably it could be
revoked for any purpose by just simply giving them ten days
notice, which does not seem to be fair or appropriate to
the holder of the permit. I understand that you want to be
cautious with that language, but to not address it leaves
the business operator more vulnerable than I think the
intent is.
Then I want to come back to the question that I
asked Staff, and this is really a business question. Is
there an interest that the Town has if there are large
variations in the valet charges that have some potential? I
don't know, but you do this all the time. You know my
question.
MONICA RENN: There are certainly different
perspectives on this, and I think that one is a business is
going to regulate that. So if two businesses sell the same
tee shirt and one sells it for $50 and one sells it for
$30, you might start patronizing the $30 business. So
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there's also this while the other businesses may say hey,
you're only charging $20 and I'm charging $25, the intent
is that you're going to that business. So if the business
owner starts to hear I don't want to pay $25 to park in
your lot, or $10 or whatever it is, then that would be
their business decision at that point to go back and forth
on that. We don't regulate what's charged on other things,
so I don't see the nexus to regulate that.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Just a quick follow up?
CHAIR BURCH: One more.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: That's fine. Is there the
danger, the risk, if the valet charges get high enough —and
I subscribe to the marketplace argument that you just made —
that the downtown area, albeit the overwhelming percentage
of parking spots will still be free under this plan, could
inadvertently get a reputation that you have to pay when
you go to downtown Los Gatos, and how does one think about
that?
MONICA RENN: That could certainly happen. The
thing that I think we will find if this were to be adopted
is that there really aren't that many private lots that are
large enough to do this and'that would make it lucrative
enough for the business.
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We went through and we looked at places that have
their own parking spots, and it's probably close to 80 %,
but many of them have one space, or two spaces, and it just
doesn't make sense. There are maybe ten places that have
enough spots that they could even think about it, and then
at that point, if they even have enough room to still keep
a fire lane would be questionable.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: The only way I see this in any
business is really the Hult's model, that you have the
ability to put the stand on private property. So now you've
eliminated anything on Santa Cruz: Gardino, Lexington
House; they've got no place to put a stand, because we're
not allowing them right away. And then you've got to find a
third party parking lot to park your cars in.
When you talk about Old Town, yes, you could have
the Wine Cellar, do it, but they're going to have to find
parking that offsite, not within that parking lot. If you
thought somehow they were going to reconfigure that parking
lot and still have fire lanes, and still meet all the
requirements of all the other tenants, no. But if the Wine
Cellar could put up a stand there and someone wanted to
drive up, get out of the car, and pay and their car is
taken over to the Wells Fargo parking lot and then picked
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I back up after the end of the night, you've created more
2 spots for people in that scenario.
3 But there are not that many that are going to fit
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that mold that I've been able to find, and I've been
walking the neighborhood for quite a bit trying to figure
it out. If we allow them in the right -of -way, then I think
that could lead to quite a bit more issues.
8
MONICA RENN: I think though, if I may, we
9
10 wouldn't prohibit that. So for example, Willow Street,
11 Linden Plaza, the vendor that's there is Corinthian, and
12 what they currently do is they call it "assisted stacked
13 parking." So if you pull in and there are three spaces
14 available, they say go ahead and take a space and keep your
15 keys. If you pull in and there's not a space available,
16 Ithey take your keys and they park your car when there is a
17 space available, or they double park. So that's an example
18 of how you could utilize both.
19
My understanding with the Hult's application is
20
they do want to use their own lot and then have a secondary
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agreement. So we could look at if you weigh in on one or
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the other. They're not allowed to use their own lot, but I
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24 think many people may not have the ability to do a parking
zs agreement, so they may say we want to use a section of our
lot to stack.
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CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Kane, then
Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER KANE: This is turning out to be an
18 -sided circle. When I read it I envisioned the problems
here, and I'm hearing even more problems tonight. I'm going
to go to Alex Hult and I think I know what I'm talking
about. I served with Alex on the Chamber, board of
directors, and what he was talking about was his south side
parking lot being open to the public, but when it got
filled he would like to have a valet situation for that
kind of overflow.
The story that he tells is often three people
will come into the restaurant and wait 20 minutes for the
driver to arrive, if they were riding four in a car, and he
hates that; and that's happened over and over, because he's
in a tight spot. He's got a freeway, a highway, and what he
wants to do is have an independent consideration where he
can take somebody's car across the street to the bank, or
the Town lot, or the whatever, when most of us wouldn't
cross Highway 9 per se. That makes a little bit of sense.
I'm going to try to underscore again what I
envision as a merit to having regulated on the expense;
$10, $15. You could put an ad in the paper: We'll park your
car for $15, and then list the vendors that are willing and
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[cY%
I able to do that. The Town Vitality Manager, partner with
2 Chamber of Commerce.
3 I'm listening to other voices, but I would not
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not regulate this. I'd keep it simple so that people want
5
to come here. It's $10. It's $15. Profit, schmofit. You
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underwrite the expense of choosing to have a valet service;
7
you don't make that a profit center, because that wouldn't
8
9 work for us. Go to Los Gatos; pay $30. But no, you go to
10 Los Gatos, you pay $10 to park your car. And the vendors
11 who can, do, and make a profit — Hult's would be happy,
12 because he's dying to get more parking spaces —and others
13 who can't afford it, don't do it. That's the free market
14 system. But don't let that parking expense be free market.
15 I just see that as a nightmare.
16 I have a question. We do this during Christmas,
17 right? We have some valet services? What's been our
18 accident insurance experience? Have we had bang -ups and
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fenders benders?
20
ROBERT SCHULTZ: The company that does it has to
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supply their own insurance and indemnify us, so from a Town
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standpoint we have no liability. In my two years we've had
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24 no claims. If we were to get one, and someone called and
25 said their car was damaged, we'd point them in the
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direction of the insurance company and the company that is
doing the valet service.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Still, it would be important
to get a competent service, so that again, we didn't create
a snake pit that wasn't there before.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER KANE: I think this is complicated,
and I don't know what my fellow commissioners want to do.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: We agree, it's very complicated.
We've spent a lot of time trying to figure out all the
different scenarios and issues, and you've brought up more
that we didn't even think about.
COMMISSIONER KANE: I feel strongly about the
regulations on dollars, and I'd like to know what best
practices are and the reasons to do otherwise, because I'd
really like to keep it simple, stupid. We're going to park
your car for $15, but bring a $20 bill. Just keep it simple
and make it enhance the experience, not complicate it.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Badame.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: We're a really small town,
and when I look at items J and K, it talks about the safe
operation of vehicles and traffic operations. So in regard
to traffic and vehicles, I've seen a pattern that if there
is no history of any accidents, it's considered safe. But
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I in regard to Mr. Hult's application, I'm trying to figure
2 out how he would ferry those cars across the highway,
3 because he's either going to have to block off his lot to
4
allow the stacking of cars right at that easement —I don't
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know if that's an easement — between the public lot and his
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private lot. So would he not block that off and take cars
7
into the public lot, and then hit Highway 9 where you have
a
to go across two or three lanes of traffic to get into a
9
to left -hand turning lane to then go into the bank parking
11 lot? Or is he going to exit out onto University, which he
12 would have to make a right, because there are solid double-
13 (Yellow lines? So then he would have to go the opposite way
14 Hof where he wants to valet the cars, and make a U -turn at
15 Isome point.
16 I Who is going to determine if this is safe? It's
17 Iright at an intersection, crosswalks, driveways. So do we
18 Ijust wait for an accident to happen, otherwise it's safe?
19
These are my concerns.
20
ROBERT SCHULTZ: We don't have a specific
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application in front of us. I know we're using that as an
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example quite a bit, but in the process that would be in
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24 (front of the DRC, which has an engineer on that board,
25 (which has a fire captain on that board, and they would go
through the process to evaluate that and the safety. What
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would the routes be? How would the stacking occur? What
would happen if it were stacked too much? And those things
aren't allowed. I think we've put in the ordinance
specifically that you can't stack out in University.
So I don't want to use too much of a specific
application, but there is a process that would vet those
issues. One of the things we discussed is whether maybe the
DRC should be the deciding body for these issues. If you
have that much concern, and we'll bring them to you guys.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: I have a lot of concern.
By the way, I have one other comment, Madam
Chair, if I may? That is there is a lot of follow up, and
code enforcement, and possible increased police complaints
with parking lot disputes.
But back to the insurance issue on number N,
which Commissioner O'Donnell had brought up, we're going to
have to monitor the insurance certificates, because people
do let their insurance lapse. So every year we're going to
have to get updated certificates from all the valet
businesses.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: We monitor over 500 -700
contracts. We monitor so many thousands of contracts right
now, so we've got those procedures in place that monitor
just huge amounts of contracts that we have, so I'm not too
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1 concerned with that issue. And for how many? We'll get
2 three or four, if that, out of this.
3 VICE CHAIR BADAME: If we get three or four, is
4
it worth it to go through all this?
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ROBERT SCHULTZ: It's brought by Council.
6
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Okay, thank you.
7
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Hanssen was next.
a
COMMISSONER HANSSEN: Since I heard some of 'this
9
to issue before, having been on the Transportation and Parking
11 Commission, I generally think that this is a good idea, but
12 I do think it may need more controls, and there may be more
13 issues that we haven't thought of. I think actually there
14 is a fair amount of criteria in here, reading through
15 relative to doing this.
16 I wondered if rather than making this a permanent
17 ordinance though if it wouldn't be a good idea to do it on
18 a trial basis, just like the Town did with the green bike
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lanes and has been done with other things. I believe the
20
downtown valet parking— Monica, correct me if I'm wrong —was
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originally done on a trial basis, and then it has continued
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on a regular basis, because we've gotten really positive
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feedback for doing so.
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zs So maybe one approach to this would be to do a
trial for like a year, or six months, or something. Put
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some controls on it, like a maximum amount that can be
charged for the valet parking, and then do a reevaluation
to see if the process is right, and if the feedback is
right, and if there are disputes that came up that we
hadn't thought of. But that way it's not going to be a
permanent part of our code. That's just a thought I had.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: It already is a permanent part
of your code, but you just can't charge, so that's really
why it's in front of you. The code specifically says you
can't charge unless the Town is charging, and we're not
charging for parking.
COMMISSONER HANSSEN: You can't create a
temporary revision to the ordinance saying that under these
conditions for this amount of time will allow... Because you
have everything but the amount of time in here.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: You could certainly pass it
where it will automatically lapse within a certain period
of time; that recommendation could be added. I just want to
make certain you understood why it was coming in front of
you. If Hult's had agreed that he didn't want to charge,
this issue might not be in front of you, and he could be
doing valet parking right now.
CHAIR BURCH: All right, Commissioner Talesfore,
and then I thought Commissioner O'Donnell raised his hand.
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I COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I just have like one
2 last question, and a lot of comments.
3 Is this going to be cash based only, or credit
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card?
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MONICA RENN: We wouldn't control that.
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: So it's up to however
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they want to do it?
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MONICA RENN: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: And how about the
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11 signage for valet parking? Is that going to be somewhat
12 branded so it looks like it's all Town, or how is that
13 going to work?
14 MONICA RENN: We haven't discussed a branding for
15 the valet signs, but the signage would be addressed in the
16 Conditions of Approval as far as where it could be, what it
17 could look like, how big it could be.
18 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: So that would be up to
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the owner of the business?
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MONICA RENN: It would be up to them to present
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it to the Town, and it would be up to the DRC to approve
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it. You could certainly make a recommendation if you wanted
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24 something to be branded or be within certain parameters;
25 that would be something you could do.
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I think that's all for
now, and I think most of my comments are in discussion.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I think that I have not
heard enough evidence or facts for me to make an
intelligent decision on this. It turns out this is a really
complex thing, and I guess not having been in on it from
the beginning I don't understand the problem, because when
you hear what's the advantage of valet parking? I heard
about double- and triple - parking, it's going to double the
parking downtown. Then I say well wait a minute, that's not
right. And then we say well no, that's not exactly what we
want to do. So I'm sure there are some really good thoughts
here, and I'm sure you people understand it, but I don't.
And then the question becomes is it really
important that I understand it? Well, it only becomes
important if we're supposed to make a recommendation to the
Town Council, and that's what this says. So I'm not sure
this ought to be before us, because this is pretty complex.
I, personally, if I were going to have to make a
recommendation on this, I'd like a study session.
And believe me, I'm not looking for study
sessions, but if I had to make a recommendation on this,
then I want people to explain it to me by saying here are
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I three or four examples of what we're talking about. I
2 haven't really heard that. I've heard things that are
3 inconsistent with what I heard later.
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I've got two possibilities: either we have a
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study session if it's important enough, or I'm just going
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to vote against this. So that's it.
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CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Kane, you just had
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your hand up.
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10 COMMISSIONER KANE: There was a comment by
11 Commissioner Hanssen, not that we have a sunset clause that
12 expires in one year, but that we have a mandatory review
13 clause to carry it forward. That's what a merchant would
14 want, so that way he or she can depend upon employee
15 reliability, quality of employee, insurance continuity,
16 that kind of thing. And each one be independent depending
17 on how many there were, so that they would put their best
18 foot forward to do the right job to get that renewal. But
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rather than have a sunset clause, have a required renewal
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going forward. That's what the merchant could live with,
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not the other thing.
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But I totally agree with Commissioner O'Donnell
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24 yet but once again. This is very complicated and I don't
25 feel qualified or prepared at this point to take something
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this complicated and send it up to Town Council like we
knew what we were doing, when I don't.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore, then
Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Along the same lines,
after I read through this, and then after I started
thinking about it and I came up with my list of 12
questions —which probably could be 24 by now —I realized I
don't have enough information. I don't know what parking
lots we're talking about. I don't know exactly how that's
going to work.
It sounds right now as if it's one person, maybe
two people, maybe three, looking for this kind of parking,
and maybe they should just do it on their own. I don't know
why we want to turn this into another program that the Town
has to regulate. That's just my thought here.
There are lots of ways to approach this. There is
encouraging businesses to share parking. There is also
reexamining employee parking and creating some kind of
incentive for employees to maybe be parked somewhere else.
There is mixed -use parking at peak hours and non -peak
hours. Also look at restricted paid valet parking on some
of these lots from a certain hour to a certain hour, but
not all day. I don't think we've explored all of it.
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I And the other thing that I'm really concerned
2 about, and I asked the question, is that this hasn't been
3 as public as it should be.
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A few years ago the Town had considered having
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parking meters in the Town on Santa Cruz Avenue, and I
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remember that it was in the newspaper advertised as an
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article. This chamber was filled for at least two meetings,
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and I was here as just a resident. And there were a lot of
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10 opinions about that. So I'm really concerned that if we
11 were to put this in place, we haven't notified everybody.
12 And as far as us taking another look at this, I
13 don't know if it's a study session, or it's another group,
14 or we come up with questions, but something more needs to
is be done. This is not to be taken lightly.
16 CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Badame, then
17 Commissioner Kane.
18 VICE CHAIR BADAME: I agree with all that's been
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said. I could not forward a recommendation at this point. I
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don't think we have enough information. I'm not crazy about
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a study session. What I'd like to see done, before even a
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study session is considered, which it could be at some
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24 point, is that it goes before the Transportation and
25 Parking Commission.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Kane.
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COMMISSIONER KANE: I'm ready to make a motion.
It's not the motion I was going to make, Commissioner
Badame. You want to send this to another subcommittee? I'm
not opposed to a study session. How did we handle the
45,000 -page Tree Ordinance?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: At this point in time we need to
make a recommendation to Council, and it appears that the
recommendation is that you can't make a recommendation at
this time, because you need further study, you need it to
potentially go to the Transportation and Parking
Commission, and then come back to you for a study session.
Then Council would make that determination, whether they
want to go forward with the ordinance, or go by your
recommendation (inaudible).
COMMISSIONER KANE: So that would be alternative
three, continue the matter to a date certain?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: No.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Then it would be
recommendation number four.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Okay.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Could I just ask one
question? Perhaps if the Transportation and Parking
Commission does a thorough job, it would make our job much
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/14/2015
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1 easier. In other words, based on the paper I've got in
2 front of me, I don't feel like I have enough information.
3 That doesn't mean if some agency or board that
perhaps has
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more expertise in this did it and came up with their report
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we might not be able to say hey that's a great report, or
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tweak this or tweak that. My feeling isn't that we should
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do it, but somebody's got to do it, and so therefore
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9 Commissioner Badame's suggestion, I think, is a good one.
to So I would ask Commissioner Kane if he would
11 consider, if he's going to make a motion, that we simply...
12 And I would Staff if we can do this, because
13 normally it's up to the Council to decide where it goes. We
14 don't get to say step back, we're going to send it to
15 somebody else. So you're shaking your head like we can't do
16 that. Okay, so we can't do that.
17 ROBERT SCHULTZ: You can make that recommendation
18 to Council that it be sent to the Transportation and
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Parking Commission and it be studied further; because of
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all of the issues raised you were unable to make a
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recommendation for this ordinance.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Then I would ask the
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24 maker of the motion to consider whether we ought to deny it
25 based on the facts we have before us with the suggestion to
Council A and B.
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COMMISSIONER KANE: Is a denial necessary? Or is
that our recommendation to Council?
My motion is I recommend we advise Town Council
that it would be a good idea to send it to the
Transportation and Parking Commission, along with the
minutes or the video of this meeting, and have them vet
that issue and send it back to us, so that we're in a
better place to serve the Town Council better. That's my
motion.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: And even for a workshop study
session with this board.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Right. So this motion
then could be for a continuance?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: No, it's got to get to
the Council.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I mean we would continue
it. How do we do this?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Your decision tonight needs to
go to Council.
COMMISSIONER KANE: The recommendation goes to
Council. They send it to the Transportation and Parking
Commission, back to us, and then back to them.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Okay, to send it. All
right, fine.
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I I CHAIR BURCH: All right, so we have a motion.
2 Commissioner Erekson.
3 COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Can I have the motion
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repeated, so I'm sure what I'm voting on?
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COMMISSIONER KANE: We're recommending to Town
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Council that the immediate question be sent to the
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Transportation and Parking Commission, along with notes or
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9 the video from this meeting, for them to give this a
10 thorough vetting, send it back to us, and then we will give
11 it thorough vetting in the form of a workshop or study
12 session, or something where we can informally work very
13 hard on a complicated document, and then we will give the
14 recommendation to Town Council.
15 ROBERT SCHULTZ: Along with more community input,
16 which was raised.
17 COMMISSIONER KANE: Yes.
18 COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I agree with what was
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just said, but I just want to understand. In essence we
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were asked tonight to deny or to approve.
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ROBERT SCHULTZ: You're recommending no changes.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay, what we're really
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24 recommending is we cannot approve. If you want to take that
25 as a denial, I guess that's fine, but what we're really
saying is this body would need more information, and we are
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suggesting that perhaps a better body to do the background
work, I don't know this as a fact, would be the
Transportation and Parking Commission, if the Council
agrees with that.
Just sitting here with all seven of us doing all
this at the moment doesn't seem very effective.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: No.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: But it's not because we
aren't trying. So anyway, just parsing it down again, we're
not approving it. If you want to take that as a denial, so
be it, but what we're really doing is advising the Council
as to what we just said.
COMMISSIONER KANE: I'm recommending what I
recommended.
CHAIR BURCH: Right.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: It's not approving.
COMMISSIONER KANE: They can do what they want.
ROBERT SCHULTZ:. It's rejecting, it's denial,
whatever you'd like to call it.
CHAIR BURCH: Okay, I'm going to second the
motion. Any other discussion? Okay, we're going to take a
vote. All in favor? Passes unanimously.
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