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Attachment 9 - Partial Verbatim Minutes from January 14, 2015 Planning Commission Meeting1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A P P E Los Gatos Planning Commissioners: Community Development Director: Planning Manager: Town Attorney: Transcribed by: A N C E S: Kendra Burch, Vice Chair Mary Badame Charles Erekson Melanie Hanssen D. Michael Kane Tom O'Donnell Joanne Talesfore Laurel Prevetti Joel Paulson Robert Schultz Vicki L. Blandin (510) 337 -1558 LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S: VICE CHAIR BURCH: The next Item #2, Conditional Use Permit Application U -14 -018 at 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard, requesting approval of a Conditional Use Permit for a high turnover, sit down restaurant, Super Duper Burgers, with outdoor seating and beer and wine service with meals on property zoned CH:PD, APE #529 -65 -028, Ms. Walters, will give us our Staff Report. ERIN WALTERS: Good evening, Vice Chair and Commissioners. This subject tenant space will be located within the Sandy Lane Commercial Center, which is the former Swanson Ford site located at the northwest corner of Los Gatos Boulevard and Blossom Hill Road. On June 20, 2011 Town Council approved a Planned Development application for a mixed -use project, including two independent two -story commercial buildings, and also 25 residential units. The building shells for the commercial buildings have been under construction and received a building final this afternoon. There are currently three active tenant improvements in progress: a coffee shop in Building #1, a veterinarian hospital in Building #2, and a retail shop LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 1"3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that will be associated with the animal hospital, also in Building #2. In June 2003 three Conditional Use Permit Applications were approved, which included the animal hospital, the bank and the coffee shop. Staff has received two new CUP applications for tenant spaces within this complex; one we are seeing tonight. One is also under review at this time, and has not yet come to the Planning Commission, for a high turnover, sit down pizza restaurant. All uses of this site have been evaluated for use compatibility, traffic, parking and accessibility. The Applicant tonight is requesting the approval to operate a high turnover, sit down restaurant with the sale of beer and wine with outdoor seating. The Applicant is proposing operating hours from 8:00am to 10:00pm, seven days a week. The CUP is required for operation of a new restaurant as well as alcohol service and outdoor seating. The proposed Applicant meets the requirements for the Town's Alcoholic Beverage Policy, which can be found in Exhibit 6. The proposal includes 65 seats with up to 15 of those seats to be located on the outside patio at the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 3 1 corner of Los Gatos Boulevard and Blossom Hill Road. The 2 Applicant is proposing to place a 3' wood and metal railing 3 to delineate the space, and the p proposed application meets 4 all five of the Town's required outdoor seating standards 5 that are all found in Exhibit 5. 6 The Applicant has made revisions to the floor plan to ensure visibility from windows at each elevation. 8 9 There is a hallway area that is visible from the two to windows that are located along Los Gatos Boulevard, and the 11 Applicant has proposed custom artwork to be installed along 12 this hallway area. 13 The property owner and West Valley Sanitation 14 have prepared and agreed upon a trash management plan for 15 the center. The plan calls for dumpsters to be located in 16 the site's two enclosed trash room, to be serviced six 17 times a week. 18 The Applicant has been in communication with the 19 neighboring homeowners association, Montecito at Los Gatos 20 Association, and has answered questions with regard to the 21 proposed operation of the restaurant. 22 Staff has recommended Conditions of Approval 23 24 regarding the maximum number of seats, delivery and 25 operating hours. There will be no traffic or parking impacts as a result of this project, and the proposed use LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 conforms to the Town Code and is consistent with the General Plan. This concludes Staff's report, and I'm happy to answer questions. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you, Ms. Walters. Do we have any questions? Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: If I understood your comments, you say there is another restaurant sort of in the pipe. ERIN WALTERS: That's correct. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: And how big is that restaurant? ERIN WALTERS: In regard to seats? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, both ways. This restaurant is a little over 4,000 square feet, if I recall correctly. How big would the second high turnover pizza restaurant be? ERIN WALTERS: It's roughly 2,000 square feet. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: So when you took into consideration any impacts of the present proposal, you also considered the other proposal, which may come before us? ERIN WALTERS: That is correct. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, thank you. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard W 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Do we have any other questions? Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I visited the property, but I'm confused about the outdoors seating and where it is. It's mentioned to be at the corner of Los Gatos Boulevard and Blossom Hill Road, and there was mention of a railing be proposed, but there's a seating area right now that has a stone wall in front of it. Is that the same seating area, or we're talking about a different seating area? ERIN WALTERS: That is the same seating area. That patio is shared by the coffee shop, Philz Coffee, that is adjacent, as well as this proposed restaurant. The coffee shop has approved outdoor seating, they can have up to 12 seats total inside /outside, how they work with that, and with the proposed restaurant and the service of alcohol there has to be a secondary delineation, a secured area where the service of the food and the alcohol would be served. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So relative to how it looks right now, there's this wall there and then there's basically nothing in the patio. So there's going to be a new railing that's somewhere inside that patio to separate LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (out the Philz from the Super Duper Burgers, is that correct? ERIN WALTERS: That is correct, and it would be from the street view you wouldn't be able to see it, but if you were up on the patio it would be a metal and wood kind of rectangular shape that is attached to where their service door is. VICE CHAIR BURCH: If I may be of assistance, if you take a look at both sheets CUP -2 and CUP -3 you'll see inside that circular enclosure it almost appears that that's a separate room with a door, but when you look at CUP -3 it's in fact showing you where the seating will be delineated in that enclosure, and it shows the seats and the railing. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So you're saying this door at the end of the exterior seating plan that's a few feet away from Philz is where the railing would be? Okay. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Do we have any other questions? Commissioner Kane. COMMISSIONER KANE: I have a concern about alcohol and the children. We've got Fisher School, we've got Van Meter, and I drive by that intersection two to four times a day and there are always children going back and forth. When Staff looked at this, what was your concern LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard ri 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ]1 12 13 14 15 16 17 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about the Town Code on desirability and essential service of alcohol with hamburgers? ERIN WALTERS: I would defer to Mr. Paulson. JOEL PAULSON: As we look at the applications for these, and there have been many applications, all of which come before the Planning Commission and all of which move on to the Town Council. For instance, the Chipotle space in the center across Blossom Hill also has the approval for serving beer, and I believe it's wine margaritas. Those things are controlled by ABC, and our police department obviously when we receive complaints, and so the burden is on the Applicant to show why they believe that the service in conjunction with their meal service is necessary. That information has been provided by the Applicant as to their justification, and as your recommendation moves forward to Council you can make any comments that you wish, because they will receive verbatim minutes of the meeting this evening, and depending on the ultimate recommendation the Commission could choose also to not allow them to serve alcohol, or beer and wine in this case. COMMISSIONER KANE: Well, perhaps with the exception of Double D's, The Happy Hound, Jack's, McDonald's, Carl's, most of these places don't serve beer and wine, and in the Applicant's statement they provided a LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mini business plan and said the process of going through is simple: You order your meal and then you stock up on beverages, and I just reacted to that. Stock up on a couple of beers while you're waiting. Do you know what percentage of the Applicant project that's to be takeout versus sit down and enjoy the restaurant? ERIN WALTERS: I would defer that question to the Applicant with regard to the statement about the beverages being consumed while waiting to get your meal, as well as the percentage we could ask the Applicant. COMMISSIONER KANE: I have one other Staff question, if I may? VICE CHAIR BURCH: Of course. COMMISSIONER KANE: We just provided a CUP for the drug store, and somewhere in here the Applicant was saying these alcohol beverages shall not be handled by anyone under 21. That's what they say, they're going to handle their spirits with people 21 and older. Being a new Commissioner I don't have an immediate understanding of if they have to be 21 with sealed bottles, why would the Super Burger people need to be 18 with open containers? ERIN WALTERS: If we could, we could ask the Applicant how that is handled in the restaurant, and how that works with their other facilities with regard to age. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 i3 14 is 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER KANE: I agree with you, I just don't think the Applicant could know why one is 18 and the other one is 21. Why are 18 year olds handling open service alcohol and the people with closed bottles have to be 21? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Could we just check with Counsel and /or Staff, because I had a recollection that the ABC required that the handling of alcohol, whether closed or open, servers have to be 21. This may misspeak, but I think that is the law. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Yes. Staff was just looking that up. Do you want to make a comment? ROBERT SCHULTZ: It is 21. COMMISSIONER KANE: So the Applicant's documentation needs to be amended? VICE CHAIR BURCH: Yeah, and that is something that we can handle during the motion and make sure that's amended. COMMISSIONER KANE: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Any additional questions? Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: This is about serving alcohol with meals. This is regarding the Town's policy to serve it with the meal. How is it handled? Like for instance, if someone orders a meal and they have a beer LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with it, and then what if they come back and they want to have beers? Do they have to buy more food or is that covered under the meal that they've handled, or is it just not addressed? ERIN WALTERS: I'd defer that to Mr. Paulson. JOEL PAULSON: Generally within reason, and when the Applicant comes up they probably have some policies or procedures relating to that, but if someone ordered a meal and they wanted to have more than one beer, I'm sure that they would allow them to do that. Now, if they want to sit there, finish their meal and have 12 beers over a course of however long, that is problematic. it's not intended to be like a bar where you could go in and just sit and drink and /or order food and then sit and continue to drink for an extended period of time. But the Applicant hopefully can shed some additional light on that subject. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Badame. COMMISSIONER BADAME: I want to get the serving straight. So the patrons place their order at a counter, and then do they carry their own food from the counter and seat themselves as long as it's inside, because if it's outside they have to be escorted by a restaurant employee LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 if they're drinking alcohol outside, but inside do they collect their food at the counter and then seat themselves? ERIN WALTERS: That's my understanding. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I know this isn't required in terms of looking at development proposals today, but I was wondering about parking. When I went by the facility it didn't seem like there was very much, and considering that we're trying to get more people riding their bikes, the sidewalks looked fine, but I wasn't sure about the parking. Do you have a comment on that? ERIN WALTERS: As attached in the Staff Report, there's a parking table that describes each tenant space within the center. Some of the tenant spaces have not been leased yet and they're vacant, but they've been programmed in terms of use. Based on those calculations and the Town Code requirement for parking, that is how we've come up with what is how many spaces are out there and then how many spaces are required per each use. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I'm confused; because what I was looking at looked like car parking, not bicycle parking. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/19/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ERIN WALTERS: I apologize. There are bike lockers out on the site, and I don't have the exact number of how many there are. I was out at the site today and I saw a couple, but I don't have the exact number. Then there are also bike racks as well. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I saw the bike locker, I saw a couple of bike racks, but I thought to myself Super Duper Burgers seemed like a place that families would go after they were at Vasona and stuff, and they'd be riding their bikes, and I wondered if there would be enough places for more than one family to park if that were the case? ERIN WALTERS: That's a great question, and I don't know the total number of bike parking racks at this time. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Our Town Attorney has a comment. ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes, I want to quickly correct myself. Under state law, to be a bartender you have to be 21, but you can be 18 to be a server, a waiter, a waitress, but certainly you could still make a recommendation to be restrictive if you want to make that recommendation to City Council that any service of the wine and alcohol you must be 21. You can certainly make that a recommendation to City LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 13 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Council, but under state law you can be 18 and be a waiter or waitress and serve alcohol. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you for the clarification. I think we should go ahead and move to the public portion. If we have any additional questions of Staff, let's just go ahead and hold them to the end. Thank you so much, Ms. Walters, for all your information. I will call now Tom Consunji. ERIN WALTERS: Actually, I believe the Applicant, Hannah Walbridge, wanted to speak first on behalf of Super Duper. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Ms. Walbridge, and to remind you that you have five minutes. Make sure that the mic is close to you and state your name and your address for the record, please. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Good evening, Planning Commissioners. My name is Hannah Walbridge and I'm here for 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard for Super Duper. I handle all the new development for the restaurant. We're a small, local company out of San Francisco and we were founded in 2010 by two chefs who shared a passion for great food, as I'm sure some of you have read. We believe in slow food values, everything fresh, local and sustainable. We partner with local purveyors like Straus LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 to 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Creamery for our soft serve, and Golden Gate Meat Company for our beef. We do a lot of things in- house. We make our own pickles; we grind our own beef to keep the quality up. These beliefs carry over into our interiors. We like to create inviting, warm interiors that are open to the community and to the families that live within that community. We're very family friendly; we offer a very simple menu, which speaks to that. We like to use reclaimed and recycled materials in our build -outs. We commission local artists for artwork. We like to keep a very simple, approachable vibe and culture to the restaurant. All of our packaging is a hundred percent compostable and we recycle all of our cooking oils. This cuts down on our waste and the noise and all of the kind of buildup in the neighborhood and around the neighborhood with the trash. We are very excited about the opportunity to be in the Town of Los Gatos. I personally grew up in Willow Glenn, as you all know is very close to here, and have spent a lot of time in the Town. We really feel strongly that our concept and our values are in line with that of the Town of Los Gatos. We believe in the community here and we like to partner with sports teams and local charities and give back LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to the community. Every year on our anniversary we do a Free Food Day where we give away free food and like to celebrate our success with our guests, because we really believe that the community and the guests are part of our success, a large part, actually one hundred percent a part of our success. We've been really fortunate to win a lot of awards and accolades over the last couple years. We've gotten best burger awards from everything from SF Weekly to Biz Journal and 7x7 magazine. We've been on Eater SF's "38 Essential San Francisco Restaurants" list for the past three years and we attribute all this to the communities that we're in and building those relationships with our guests. We feel like the Town of Los Gatos is a great place to have our South Bay flagship location and really look forward to working with the community here to make that happen. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Do you have any questions? I do. I assume as you chose this site that you spent a decent amount of time in the vicinity there. As you're aware, we do have schools diverging all in that location, and in particular I'm going to address the middle schoolers. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 When school lets out that entire corner of the shopping across the way is flooded with middle schoolers. I'm going to imagine that if you are put in that corner, after school you're going to see a large influx of middle schoolers; they're always looking for a nice place to hang out. I would be interested in how you handled other communities, because obviously if you have beer and wine sales you may have somebody in there drinking, and you have a large, young student population, so how you've maybe managed a level of separation between those to ensure the safety of the children, just to ensure that they do have a safe place to hang out. Have you experienced this in any other communities? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: We do. Our Mill Valley location is one that I find is probably most comparable in area and demographic. We're right down the street from the high school, Mt. Tamalpais High School, and they have open campus and they also let out around 3:00 o'clock. We're right in the downtown Mill Valley area there and get a lot of that traffic, and our patio is kind of one of the hangout spots after school. We serve beer and wine. We serve it because we like to attract adults to our restaurant over taking their kids to a different fast food restaurant; they can come and LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 enjoy it as kind of an extra bonus and perk. After work when they bring their kids they can have a glass of wine or beer. Also downtown San Francisco, we do see some at lunch. But in an environment like Mill Valley, like here, we don't see a lot of those sales at lunch time, and it's a pretty small percentage of our sales, varying location 5 -100, closer to 5% at Mill Valley. So it's not as much of a concern, because we don't really see people ordering that during the day. It's also only given from behind the counter and it's only on tap. There are no beer bottles; there are no glasses of wine. It's strictly we have two wines and two beers that we serve from a tap and it's given to the person when they order their food, period. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Commissioner Talesfore. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Thank you. It's a pretty big space, I was visiting it today, and under your Condition of Approval here, and also in your letter to us, you talk about porters. The Condition of Approval that I'm reading in Exhibit 3 says, "A porter shall be available at all times to maintain the patio area." So can you talk to us a little bit about the porters? Are they inside and outside? Do they stand at the door? How does that work? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HANNAH WALBRIDGE: The porters. I didn't see that one; I'm sorry. The porters? COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: It's in Exhibit 3 of your Conditions, and it's also in the letter. Now, let's see. I'm sorry; I thought you would be familiar with it. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: No, I am. I'm sorry, I'm not... COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Let's see, where was it? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Oh, I'm sorry, it's semantics. Yeah, we actually have somebody on our staff that is assigned to look over and maintain that outside area at all times. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: So somebody will be assigned to do that only, or I would imagine other things as well? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Yeah, like they check the restrooms, make sure the restrooms are clean. They'll do the outside area. With this with the alcohol, the conditions on the beer and wine, we're going to have to maintain and monitor the patio more than in some of the other locations, so we'll have somebody on staff to do that. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Badame. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item 42, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 27 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER BADAME: How many locations do you have, and do all of them serve beer and wine? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: We have eight other locations: Two in Marin, five in San Francisco, and one at Valley Fair, and they do all serve beer and wine in the same fashion, through a tap, two beers and two wines. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Along the same line of questioning, are all of your locations approximately the same size? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: We vary. We have on location as small at 1,800 square feet in San Francisco, and then we have another one about 3,600. This will be our largest one, and so we've been working with our interior designer to find some interesting ways to make it feel warm and comfortable, because that is a big space. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So you're saying that this location in Los Gatos, even though we're so much smaller than San Francisco, is going to be your single largest location? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: It is, physically. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: By how much? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: By about 500 square feet. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Do we have any other questions? Commissioner Kane. COMMISSIONER KANE: I have two, if I may. Back to the issue of a porter, on page 4 of the Staff Report it advises, "The patio will be seated and monitored by the restaurant hostess," and on page 5, Item 5 continues, "When alcoholic beverage service is permitted outside a restaurant employee shall seat patrons." Now that doesn't sound like a custodial personnel cleaning up. What exactly does that mean, that the hostess will do the seating and if somebody orders a drink someone else will seat them if they go outside? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Since we aren't a full sit down restaurant we don't necessarily have a busser and a hostess. In some of the San Francisco restaurants we're quite busy, so we have people that are assigned to stay on the floor, help people find their seats, clear trays if they need to when they see them, clean up, make sure that things stay orderly and maintained. This person in this location will be assigned to really monitor the patio, because I feel like that's going to be... We have a lot of space in this location for people waiting. I'm not so concerned about somebody kind of taking care of that area, it's more the patio area and monitoring the alcohol and LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 making sure that's it's all clean and people are seated properly. That's why we see that person taking on that role. COMMISSIONER KANE: All right. I understand keeping it clean and organized, but this says, "When alcoholic beverage service is permitted a restaurant employee shall seat patrons." What exactly does that mean? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: That means that they're going to have to seat the patio. I think what we're going to have to do to monitor it, to make sure it's taken care of, is just seat the patio. People aren't going to be able to just sit there randomly; we're going to have to seat it. COMMISSIONER KANE: All right. And there's another section that talks about... It's in the very nice letter about all of your awards and quality of service. The gentleman says... Let me ask you a question first. In the business plan what do you project as the percentage of takeout and the percentage of sit down? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: For this location we think we're going to be at about 70% sit down and 30% takeout. COMMISSIONER KANE: Then regarding that 30 %, Mr. Sarti, the owner, in his letter says, "At Super service is simple. Patrons place their order at a counter and stock up LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 io 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on beverages." So if I'm taking out two burgers, can I stock up on two beers? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Absolutely not. We're a Type 41 license. We're only allowed to serve beer and wine on the premises. There's no removal of that beer and wine. COMMISSIONER KANE: Thank you. And if I was ordering takeout, could I order a beer while I was waiting? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: I have to find out the policy on that, but I know that we don't let people take out beer and wine, so they'd have to say they were eating there and eat there. But I'd have to find out how that's handled exactly. COMMISSIONER KANE: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Any other questions? All right, no. Thank you very much. At the end you will have an additional three minutes to speak, if you choose to, to address any other issues that come up. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Great. Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: All right, so now I will call Mr. Tom Consunji. Please state your name and address for the record. TOM CONSUNJI: My name is Tom Consunji and I represent CHL Ventures, the owner of the property. Did you need... LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Well, you put in a speaker card, so if you have anything, you have three minutes to address us. TOM CONSUNJI: Well, good evening, Commissioners and Vice Chair, and I just want to say that as a representative of the property owner, CHL Ventures, we strongly support the application of Super Duper. We think that they are a very, very good addition to the complement of establishments that are going to be at Sandy Lane Commercial Center, and I am just actually here to answer whatever questions might arise. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Do you have any questions? No. Thank you very much. All right, next I will call David Yu. Mr. Yu, please state your name and address for the record, and you have three minutes to speak. DAVID YU: Hi, my name is David Yu; I live at 629 Blossom Hill Road and I'm representing Montecito HOA as a board member. This is in regard to a statement made in the CUP regarding shared parking. On page 7 of the CUP it mentions that there are seven shared parking spaces with businesses on the residential lot. Last year around September I had communicated with Mr. Paulson and he confirmed that this statement is incorrect and that there is no requirement for LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 1.5991 Los Gatos Boulevard 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 ]8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the shared parking, so I would like the Commissioners to remove the statement from this particular CUP and all future CUPs for businesses coming into Sandy Lane. VICE CHAIR BURCH: All right, do we have any questions? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Could we have Mr. Paulson clarify that for us? VICE CHAIR BURCH: Yes, please. JOEL PAULSON: As the PD was approved they were approved for a total of 128 spaces, so provided for the allowance of seven additional spaces designated for the commercial site. There was confusion and Mr. Yu was concerned, rightly so, that that adjacent residential parking could be used for commercial, and that is not the case. So they get credit for it, but there are technically only 121 spaces, I believe, on the site for this use. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I don't understand that. They get credit for it, but you can't use it? JOEL PAULSON: Correct, that was how the Planned Development was approved. It was approved with that condition and so they get credit for those spaces, and I think there was some reasoning that with the adjacent homes there would be potentially many patrons of those businesses LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 1.4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that would not have to drive or park, because they'd be parking in the residential area. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: But if we assume you have 121 spaces and not 128, how does our analysis go for these restaurants coming up? Because I don't care what you credit them with, you're only going to have 121 parking spaces. JOEL PAULSON: The way that Staff has looked at it, and Ms. Walters may have some additional information, is that the space, just like many of our downtown sites have zero parking spaces but they have credits for parking spaces, so in this case the commercial was designated for a credit, or an additional seven spaces, which gets us to the 128, and that is what is used for all of the tenants. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: My last question, if the Chair permits, would be I just would indicate to you that when we close the public hearing I, for one, am going to want to explore that, because downtown is a different issue as far as I'm concerned, and I'd like to know how this whole thing flies if you have 121 spaces, not 128. If it works fine with 121, then I would be comfortable. If you say well no, it only works with these imaginary spaces, I would be uncomfortable, and so I'm just giving you a heads up. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Okay, we will continue that. Do we have any other questions? Seeing none, thank you. Next is Natalie Ladd, and again, please state your name and address for the record and you have three minutes to address. NATALIE LADD: My name is Natalie Ladd and I live at 653 Blossom Hill Road. I am also a Commissioner on the Transportation and Parking Committee, but I am here representing myself as a resident, and I'm one of the board members at Montecito. I wanted to address the seven parking spaces, but I believe that's also taken care of now. We are really excited to have Super Duper Burgers there. We're a little concerned about some of the noise and traffic that's going to arise. I don't know if this is necessarily an issue we need to bring up with Super Duper Burgers, but since the property management is here, they also own the area across the street where Starbucks is, and we regularly have the cleaning of the parking lot happen at about 3:30am in the morning, sometimes at midnight. For about eight or nine months they were mowing the lawn as early as 6:OOam. We recently had the code compliance send them letters and they are now finally mowing the lawn at 8:OOam. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 i9 20 21 22 23 24 25 Because that's a little closer to our residential, it's adjacent to the residential, I'm a little concerned of how we could manage and take that into consideration as more CUPs arise, to be mindful of the residents as to when they take out garbage. I understand there's a process in place, if they're going to take out garbage only at certain hours. We're concerned about people rumbling through the garbage cans and trying to get recyclables, or dumping glass out at night when a restaurant closes, or people hanging out, more the cleaning of the parking lot. So I'm just more concerned about the noise, if we could please address that for all future businesses coming in. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Do we have any questions? All right, thank you. At this time, Ms. Walbridge, you do have another three minutes if you would like to come and address anything that you just heard. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: I would like to just address the noise issue a little bit. We are very familiar with this, being in close quarters in a few of our locations. Like I said earlier, a hundred percent of our packaging is compostable and all of our beer and wine is on tap, so we don't have any bottles, cans, recycling; it's all LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 is 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 compostable paper materials and a little bit of food waste, so that helps reduce the noise. We also are sensitive and set up schedules for taking out the trash so that the rummaging through and opening and unlocking noise doesn't bother the neighbors. Also lock the containers so that nobody else has access to them, because we also have dealt with that a bit, people trying to gain access for food or whatnot, so they will be locked and that will be controlled with our management and we will have specific times that they take them out. We usually take it out once after the lunch rush and once after the dinner rush, and we can move that up a bit to accommodate homeowners and make sure that it's a minimum. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Great, thank you. Do we have any questions? Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So relative to what you're saying, there isn't going to be any cleaning activity between 10:OOpm and 8:OOam? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: We can schedule it so that there's not any cleanup. We're not responsible for the common area, we're only responsible for our space, but 4ithin our space, yes. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Well, this might be a question for Staff, but I would want to know who is LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 29 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1.1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 responsible for the common area, because (inaudible) organizations are using it. Then my second question for you is it dawned on me when Ms. Ladd was speaking, is there music playing in the restaurant and on the patio? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Inside the restaurant, yes. We don't have any plans to put it on the patio. It's a shared patio, so it's common area. But we do have music that plays within the restaurant. I wouldn't say it's background music, but it's not live music. We usually have three or four speakers throughout the space that are evenly spaced. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So then since it is a mixed -use facility, the residents that are nearby wouldn't be able to hear it... HANNAH WALBRIDGE: No. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: ...unless they entered the restaurant? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Mmm-hmm. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Any other questions? Commissioner Erekson. CHARLES EREKSON: So you would be comfortable with a condition that would not permit amplified sound in the exterior seating area? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Yes. CHARLES EREKSON: Because you have another system for alerting me when my order is ready? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Yes, we do. We use pagers, or we give people table numbers. CHARLES EREKSON: That's what I assumed. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: But at this location, because of the size, we use pagers, because otherwise it's too loud. CHARLES EREKSON: So may I ask you one other question if no other Commissioners have a question of the Applicant? I need to know when you anticipate opening, because I've promised Commissioner Talesfore that I would take her out to eat, and we need exterior seating reservations, because she didn't believe that anyone would sit and eat at the outside exterior area, so I need to know when I need to have my money ready to take her. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: All right. Well, hopefully sooner rather than later. COMMISSIONER KANE: Madam Chair, I'm hearing an issue of conflict of interest here, and I'm quite taken aback. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 31 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: I'm a little hurt I wasn't invited too. All right, we don't have any more questions for the Applicant. Thank you very much. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: All right, we're going to close the public portion of the public hearing and now ask if any Commissioners have questions of Staff? Mr. Kane. COMMISSIONER KANE: Vice - Chair, for the Town Attorney, can we go over that 21 and 18 again? ROBERT SCHULTZ: Under state law, since they're just serving beer and wine, you could be 18. So you could have a server there by state law that says 18, but you certainly could be more restrictive. COMMISSIONER KANE: I understand that. ROBERT SCHULTZ: If the Planning Commission wants to make a condition that says service of beer and wine has to be 21, then they're always going to have to have someone on Staff who is 21, and if someone ordered a beer, they'd be the one that would have to pour it and give it to them. COMMISSIONER KANE: I'm just not understanding the difference between tapping a beer and you've got at 18. What about the fumes? ROBERT SCHULTZ: Bartenders are mixing drinks, and it's usually the hard alcohol. It's what a bartender is LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 22 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and that's why it's 21, but in a restaurant that has a bar, the bartender is 21 and they make the drinks or they pour the beer, and then they give it to a server to give it to them. COMMISSIONER KANE: Okay, because it's along the same lines. The food is quality, the restaurants are good, I researched what they do on the website and it all looks great. I just remain concerned about what years and years ago we called "kids in bars." I just find trouble supporting the service of alcohol when minors are present, and clearly it's going to be a congregation from school, the way Starbucks is now. I just don't see the necessity for it, and the conditions from the Town Code are philosophical and go to quality of life and integrity and harmony and essential services. I just don't see it, and I worry about the kids being in that establishment. On the other hand, being a new Commissioner, I don't have a sense of what has been done in Rome, and I know that we don't have precedence when everything is on a case -by -case basis, but I don't see penalizing these folks if other folks are not being penalized. Have we ever considered hours of service for beer and wine, like from 6:00 o'clock to 10:00 o'clock, so that the children who are LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 flooding in from school to get a burger go into a different environment? JOEL PAULSON: That certainly is an option for the Commission. They're free to recommend any conditions that they see appropriate. COMMISSIONER KANE: Has it been done before, and would it be fair? JOEL PAULSON: I can't recall any that have restricted it to either evening or like lunchtime but while school is in, and then evening. The monitoring of that would also be challenging, but if that's something that the Commission feels strongly about, then that's certainly something that can be placed in a condition. ROBERT SCHULTZ: My experience is not with the Town, but other towns and cities. I don't think I've ever seen an hourly like that, like 6:00 to 10:00, but I certainly have seen it restricted to indoors instead of the outdoors if you didn't want it in the outdoor patio area; that's something I've seen in many conditions. COMMISSIONER KANE: Do we have any takeouts that serve alcohol where there is a sign or some clarification that you cannot be served alcohol if you're doing a takeout, you can't order a couple of beers and jump back in your car? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ROBERT SCHULTZ: Certainly that can be a condition. I've seen that condition, maybe not in this town, but in other towns and cities. I'm not sure if ours don't, but certainly that could be a condition if there's takeout and while waiting for takeout there will be no service of alcohol. That certainly is a recommendation you make also. COMMISSIONER KANE: All right, thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Erekson, do you have a question or are you just playing with your pen? CHARLES EREKSON: I have a couple of questions, a question for probably Mr. Paulson, since he's the senior member of Staff here by length of service. In the Conditional Use Permit for the Garrett Station and Vasona Station, which I believe, if I understand their service approach for this restaurant, it will be pretty much identical to the Garrett Station, my person experience would suggest that we have not required the service of alcoholic beverages to be made by an employee to people sitting in that patio. So do you recall what sort of limitations are on the Garrett Station, A, and B, more recently —and I just don't remember this so we'll see what he remembers better than me —we issued a CUP to Mooyah Burgers at the Downing Center, which I believe their LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 l5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 service approach is very similar to this restaurant, and I don't remember whether they have alcoholic beverages or not; I just don't remember. JOEL PAULSON: We'll pull that up on the CUP table on the Town's website so we can get you a definitive answer on both of those restaurants. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Just further to that, there are I believe a number of places in Town that have outside dining and outside service of alcohol. For example, at Old Town there are at least two restaurants that come immediately to mind that has outside seating and outside service of alcohol. There's a Mexican restaurant downtown near the theater —I'm having senior moments in the names of these places —that also serves in the back. There is also a restaurant across the street from Old Town that also serves on the side. So there are a number of restaurants in Town that already do this apparently without trouble, and the police department have to okay the service of alcohol, but to the extent that Commissioner Kane is concerned, I don't know why it would be harmful, for example, to impose a condition that said a year trial to see how they do rather than judge that they are not going to go well when we have I can count at least five places already doing this. And LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 B 0 to ll 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the kids, for example, in Old Town, you walk across the bridge from the high school and you're right in Old Town. We haven't had a problem with that, so I would like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but if Commissioner Kane is concerned, we could keep a time limit on it to inspect that to make sure it was without trouble. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: And just to add to the list of restaurants, the one that comes to my mind is Main Street Burgers, which is very popular with the young set, and I don't think we've had an issue, but I would tend to agree, if you felt more comfortable, I think we could... I mean this is a new restaurant coming to town asking for a CUP for beer and wine. I could see that we would maybe put a time to show, so I would go along with that. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Badame. COMMISSIONER BADAME: I would be agreeable to a time limit as well, but I would just like to remind the Commissioners that across the street is a police operations building, so it will be under scrutiny. COMMISSIONER KANE: Well, we don't want the police in there either. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Well, it sounds like we're moving in the direction of a motion. Does anyone want to venture one? Commissioner Erekson. CHARLES EREKSON: Before we do that, unless the Staff could suggest to us that they required at Garrett Station or Mooyah Burgers, which I think are the two most comparable, and Main Street Burgers, I don't see what we gain by restricting the service on the patio to be served by someone for alcoholic beverages. It's not clear to me what we gain by doing that and it will be challenging to enforce. I mean I'm just trying to be practical here, because someone would have to declare where they were going to sit when they ordered. So I'm going to declare that I'm going to sit indoors, but there's no seating indoors, and then I go try to sit down, so I'm going to have to hold my beer, can't sit down and eat, et cetera. It's not completely clear to me what we gain by imposing that on the operator. And it seems like to me there are practical complications, and to the extent that they will have someone monitoring the use, I mean it's hypothetically possible, if we're concerned about them passing alcoholic beverages to someone who is underage, you can do that inside as well as outside. In a space that large, someone LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could get lost in a corner of the inside as well as a corner of the outside, so I'm not a hundred percent sure what we gain by doing that. It seems like to me the real issue is will we have a conscientious operator who will operate not just by the letter of the CUP, but also by the intent of the CUP, and if we do, we won't have problems, and if we don't, we'll have problems. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I'd forgotten I wanted to have a discussion around the parking. Staff did a lot of I'm sure very good work on figuring out how we're going to be able to accommodate all the parking from not only this use, but the other ones coming down the pike and the likely ones that will be coming, but I don't know how critical the absence of seven actual parking spaces as opposed to the credited spaces are. So can anybody with Staff tell me, if we remove that seven from consideration and assume we only had 121, forgetting the argument about credit, would we have a problem? JOEL PAULSON: Yes, we would be two spaces short. I think it's 126 total, taking into consideration everything that's been approved and the upcoming pizza restaurant that you'll be reviewing, and so that would LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 0 10 11 12 13 14 1.5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 equate to eight seats total split between probably those two restaurants. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Could I hear the rationale of saying let's pretend like there are seven spaces that we know are not there? JOEL PAULSON: Unfortunately, I wasn't involved in the original project, but as we looked back through the approval, approval was based on understanding that they were only going to be able to put a certain number of parking spaces in the commercial portion, so the residential side was actually over - parked, and so they gave them credit for seven parking spaces that are located in the residential space. Some of that basis, as I understand it, was that some of the tenants of the adjacent residential units, as well as the adjacent residential units behind that in the apartments and condominiums, there are quite a number of spaces there, and Placer Oaks, you might get a better opportunity for people to actually walk, and so those people whose residential spaces may not need to drive and park there. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Did you also say if one were to take away two seats essentially from both restaurants, then you'd be okay? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard Ric 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 l0 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOEL PAULSON: It would be four seats. It's two parking spaces and for the... COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, that's a total of four. I mean is it four from one or is it... JOEL PAULSON: It's eight total. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Oh. JOEL PAULSON: So parking for restaurants in this area is one space for every four seats. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, thank you very much. VICE CHAIR BURCH: I meant to ask... I'm sorry, go ahead. JOEL PAULSON: Sorry, I wanted to get back to Commissioner Erekson's comments. The Mooyah actually doesn't have alcohol; they weren't approved for alcohol. Garrett Station does not have any restrictions. Main Street Burgers, they do not have restrictions as far as serving (inaudible) in those areas, and I don't recall any restrictions for serving in any of our restaurants in town. CHARLES EREKSON: Okay, thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: I want to ask a follow up question on the parking just for my own knowledge. There are still a couple spaces here that just say "future tenant," so when you're doing these calculations how do you LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard III 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 determine the number of parking spaces to make sure? You're saying you know it's going to be four per restaurant. Well, how are you taking into account the number of parking spaces required for those other unknowns? JOEL PAULSON: Fortunately, in this case we actually have tenants either allocated through approvals or with a pending application where we know all of the tenants for all the ground floor space. So then for the second story space that's located in the buildings that remain, we program that as office, which requires one space for every 235 square feet. So that's where we calculate that, and so should a restaurant want to go upstairs or a retail use want to go upstairs, the retained use actually has the same parking requirement. The restaurant would be based on that square footage divided by the 235, which would give you a number of spaces allocated to that space, and that would correspond to a number of seats. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thanks. Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had a comment and a question. When Commissioner Erekson brought up Garrett Station it reminded me that the only time I've ever been to Garrett Station is for these big, huge soccer /lacrosse parties for my youngers, and I've never witnessed any problem when parents ordered alcohol. It's the exact same LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 516 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12_ 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 format. You go the counter, order your food, they give you your drinks, you sit down and they buzz you with a pager. And I've never witnessed any problems, and so that made me feel better about this. I had a minor question on the parking. When I was visiting the property I liked what I thought was some spots designated as clean air vehicle, but I wondered what would keep people that didn't have a clean air vehicle from parking. And what defines a clean air vehicle? Is it a hybrid, or is it an electric vehicle only? I was just curious about that. JOEL PAULSON: I don't know the strict definition of clean air vehicle, but I imagine if you can get one of those stickers, then you're probably a clean air vehicle. There are some locations that we have that are electric vehicle only spaces and generally those are ones with chargers in front of them, and there are also requirements for a certain number of those types of spaces to be included in the development based on a number of spaces that are provided. So I don't have a strict definition for what constitutes clean air vehicle. How would we stop someone not in a clean air vehicle from using those? I don't know that we can, but I would look to our Town Counsel to see. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 1 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ROBERT SCHULTZ: My understanding is the police are working on an ordinance right now. A lot of towns and cities are wrestling with the same issue on enforcement, not only for a clean air vehicle but for the charging stations and how long and where, so that's going to be coming forward to Council so that those definitions can be clarified. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Thank you. As a follow up to the Town's Required Outdoor Restaurant Seating Standards that's on page 4 and 5 of the report, and Commissioner Erekson brought this up and he's questioning it, so, "When alcoholic beverage service is permitted outside a restaurant, employee shall seat patrons," that's the standard? JOEL PAULSON: Correct. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: And then the italicized, "The outdoor patio will be seated and monitored by restaurant employees," what is that? Is that an interpretation or... ERIN WALTERS: That was the discussion with the Applicant to meet these requirements, so it is a requirement of #5, and then based on our discussions it would be the restaurant employees would monitor. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard B[9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Is that true of all the restaurants we have named up here tonight? ERIN WALTERS: If they have outdoor seating that serves alcohol, they need to make these five requirements. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: All right, thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I was going to make a motion, but I'll hold off (inaudible) might be a question. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Okay. Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I just had more of a question, and this is probably because I'm a new Commissioner. I understand that the Conditional Use Permit goes with the property, so I saw that there was a limitation in the proposal of two years when it would expire, and at which point I guess they would have to reapply, so I wondered what would happen to the property? Like supposing Super Duper Burgers had a really tough time and they moved out after a year, what happens in the... JOEL PAULSON: The condition you're referencing is they actually have to vest the Conditional Use Permit, meaning that they have to open the restaurant within two years, otherwise the Conditional Use Permit expires. Should they open and struggle, as you suggest, and they close, then you have another restaurant, and if they can live with LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard IN 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the current conditions as they are approved, then another restaurant could occupy that space. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner O'Donnell, you want to venture a motion? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I'm going to try a motion. I have a feeling that I'm inviting people to give me some conditions that I will either forget or not think of, but just to get this on the floor I will make the motion. I'm going to move the approval of the application and the recommendation to the Town Council, because it involves alcohol. First that no further environmental analysis is required, because a Mitigated Negative Declaration and Mitigation Monitoring and Reporting Program were adopted by the Town Council on June 6, 2011 and that's further developed in Exhibit 2. The required findings are also set forth in Exhibit 2, and those are (inaudible) required by Section 20.20.190. And I would recommend the approval of the Conditional Use Permit U -14 -018 subject to the conditions of Exhibit 3 and the further conditions that the parking be reduced by four. Well, the seats be reduced by four seats, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 1.2 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and as it's presently divided between inside and outside, I assume that could be at their discretion, but by four seats. That the conditions, and they may already, specifically provide that there will be no outside music or other outside mechanically produced noise or sound. And also that all exterior maintenance by staff such as cleaning and that kind of thing, all exterior work of that nature by the Applicant, not occur from I think it's I'm arbitrarily going to say from 10:00pm until 8:OOam. That does not speak to the owners, because they're not before us; it does speak to this applicant. So those are the ones that I can think of, so that's the motion. I'm inviting people who think I forgot something. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Erekson. CHARLES EREKSON: Just a clarification. You said to reduce the seating by how much? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: My understanding is we need a total of eight, and maybe I misunderstood the numbers. So it would be four from this Applicant, and we can't decide now, but if we take four away from the next applicant, that's the eight that would be required to get into 121. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard INJ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOEL PAULSON: You know what, I think we were looking at the 126 versus the 128. The 121 are actually onsite. I'm looking to Ms. Walters. ERIN WALTERS: Fifteen seats. JOEL PAULSON: So it would be 15 seats from each? ERIN WALTERS: For total. JOEL PAULSON: Total? ERIN WALTERS: Total from... COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, since I can't divide 15 by two very well, and since they're up first, I would change mine from four to seven. CHARLES EREKSON: Let me second the motion so we can move forward, and then I have a question. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Okay, so Commissioner Erekson. CHARLES EREKSON: So this is for whomever from the Staff can answer this question, and maybe I missed something here or maybe I'm having trouble counting or with math. If I look at the table that is in Section E of the Staff Report, I believe if I understand that table correctly, it's a calculation of the required parking spaces of space which has already been issued a Conditional Use Permit, so that's an accurate number, or it's a projection of the number of required parking spaces for ones which we know are in the pipeline, except for the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 second floor, which there aren't any in the pipeline, but you did for offices. So if I look at the bottom of that table it says 125.6 spaces. That to me rounds up to 126, so the delta between 126 and 121 is five, which would take 2.5 seat reductions, because right now you've got two seats. Wait a minute. It would take ten seat reductions if you were taking them all out of restaurants, because you get two seats for one parking spot. JOEL PAULSON: It is actually three seats for every parking space. It's the delta of five parking spaces versus what's on site versus the 126, five plus three is 15, so that's where the division is seven in this case, which when the next application comes through, should the City Council's action go one way or another, then eight would be potentially required to be removed by the Commission for that application. CHARLES EREKSON: Okay, then I have a question, through the Chair, for the maker of the motion. If I understand correctly from Ms. Walters, this space has approximately 4,000 square feet. The pending application of the one we don't know about, which is a pizza place, has 2,000 square feet. So it would seem to me not to be fair to that pending applicant to ask for them to have the same reduction in number of seats of space that is twice the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 7.4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 size, so I guess I would just ask the maker of the motion, would it be fairer to proportionalize it? But I don't know. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, if you use a fraction and you simply made the denominator the total of the two restaurants, and then you said it's four over six basically, so this restaurant would bear the burden of two - thirds. I'm a liberal arts major, so maybe my math is wrong, but assuming that's right, then I guess in following your line of reasoning, it would be two- thirds of 15 would be attributable to this restaurant. Would that satisfy your question? CHARLES EREKSON: It was just a question of should we do it that way as opposed to overburden a future applicant? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: This whole thing troubles me, because I'm not trying to penalize this user. On the other hand, when somebody tells me there are really only 121 spaces and we're pretending like there are 128, I'm worried about the homeowners and everybody else. This is going to go up before the Council, and hopefully between now and then maybe somebody will come up with a better idea, but I could not feel that we should approve something that depends on simply a credit, which I certainly don't understand. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 50 1 2 3 9 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 ] 6 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But I would adopt your suggestion that we use a proportion, and as we said before, this is slightly more than 4,000 square feet; the pizza restaurant is somewhat more than 2,000. If we took the actual square footage of both applicants and used that as the denominator and used this 4,000 -plus feet as the numerator, it would give us the percentage reduction of the total from the 15 spaces, and that's what my motion would intend. ROBERT SCHULTZ: If I may, very quickly. Through the PD process many times you can grant exceptions: exceptions to setbacks, exceptions to heights, exceptions to parking, and in this case that's what they did. They did an exception to the parking when 128 was required and made it 121, so there is a credit for that seven that was granted through the PD. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: And certainly the Town Council can say that. My only problem is my personal experience with restaurants, particularly fast turnover restaurants, is traffic is sometimes worse than you anticipate. This intersection is certainly not a great one. I would rather be conservative, and if the Town Council feels in their wisdom that that's been taken care of, that's fine, but my recommendation would be the one I've made. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 51 i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 1-/ 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore. COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I would support that, only because we have to remember that this isn't just a fast turnover, sit down restaurant, but there's takeout that will be happening here at the same time that will involve a need for perhaps parking, and it isn't figured in, so I would rather be conservative. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Erekson. CHARLES EREKSON: Through the Chair to the Town Attorney, so given what the PD says, does the Council without amending the PD have a legal right to impose different parking limitations than they have already granted through the PD? ROBERT SCHULTZ: That's a question I'm going to have to research a little bit. I'm trying to think of examples of that. Maybe your PD gave an exception to height, but then through the Architecture and Site review you didn't give the exception that they were granted. That can be done, so I'm looking at the same situation here where through the PD an exception has been given to the parking requirement, but now looking at the actual project have concerns with parking, and can that now be removed? It's another vested right issue, but I certainly believe to move it along if the Planning Commission is in agreement LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with Commissioner O'Donnell, then that can be an recommendation, subject to legal requirements, that the seating be further reduced to meet the 121 limit. JOEL PAULSON: The other thing that I would offer is that generally when we have existing sites we use the square footage of the space to determine the number of parking spaces allocated to that site, so doing that math, it reduces the current application by nine spaces to 56, and the pending site for the pizza space, reduces that from 30 seats to 26, so there's a nine space reduction for this application and a four space reduction for the pending application. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: That's roughly what on paper I had, although I think (inaudible). JOEL PAULSON: I think it's we have the 125.6 and it's the rounding, and so that's where we get the little bit less and it's actually two spaces less than the 15. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I would accept your math. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Erekson. CHARLES EREKSON: I would ask the Vice Chair if she would be willing to reopen the public portion of the public hearing so that we could ask the Applicant if it would have a significant impact on the operations of their LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 is 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 business if we reduced the seating capacity by about 150, because my sense is probably they moved forward given what was in the PD as they worked with Staff with some good faith assumption that they could do a business plan based on 65, and now we're telling them they have to do a business plan based on 55, so I guess I would be interested in at least as part of the record for them to be able to respond to that since we didn't have an opportunity to ask that question earlier. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Yes, I would very much like to do that, and to make a quick comment prior, because I would like to support the motion to move this forward. I have a hard time supporting a motion that penalizes an applicant based on something that was approved as a PD. I feel like we're pushing the blame down the road a little bit on what was a decision that was made prior and it makes me uncomfortable to place that burden on someone else. At this point I'm going to open the public portion of the hearing and ask the Applicant to please come back to the podium, and as you are returning, I believe you have three minutes to speak. Oh, you're just asking questions. Okay, great. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 HANNAH WALBRIDGE: I do appreciate the opportunity to speak to this, because it is a significant burden, especially looking at the overall space and the design. We spent a lot of time trying to design it so that it feels good with 65 seats, because even given the square footage that's less than what a typical operator would put in a 4,000 square foot space. So to make the math work with what we're paying with rent and cam and all of that, it's tight where it is, so that does make me nervous, for the record. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Do we have any other questions that we want to present at this time? Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: You can see what we're wrestling with, and our wrestling may not make any difference when it gets to the Council, and I intend to ask our Counsel the question in a minute, but is there any reduction that notwithstanding the hardship of any reduction, you could accept? In other words, we've said nine as I recall, our recommendation as far as mathematically. You've told us too we did this short pencil, blah, blah, blab, we can't do it. But is there any number... I mean for example, if we didn't say nine, we said four, we said three, we said some number, is there any LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 i5 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 number just so... It's kind of an unfair question, and you can tell me no, but is there any number that you could live with? HANNAH WALBRIDGE: The minimum? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, the best number. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: I mean we want... It has to work for everybody; we know that. We also don't want parking to be an issue, because then it hurts the business as well on the flip side. I mean maybe if we could come to four. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I appreciate that answer, because that's a very hard question to ask of you, and that's a very constructive answer. Thank you. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Yeah. VICE CHAIR BURCH: There are no other questions? Thank you very much. HANNAH WALBRIDGE: Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Now I will reclose the public portion of the hearing, and Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: This is the time to do this, and I appreciate all this discussion. The question of because in the original zoning approvals were premised on the 127 spaces and not 121, there's some question as to whether we can use 121 and not the 127. I understand that, and on the other hand we've just had a fairly generous LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 56 I offer of four parking spaces, and clearly that's not nine, 2 but perhaps my motion would then include a reduction of 3 four, not a reduction of nine. I would suggest that when 4 the original approvals were given it did not prevent us 5 from considering specific impacts as it comes down the 6 pike, and whereas the whole project may be entitled to 127, 7 I would assume we can parse those out in some way. I think 8 9 rather than testing that theory however, we have an offer to of four, which I would be inclined to accept, and would 11 therefore, with the approval of the seconder, amend my 72 motion to reduce the reduction in parking to four.- Does the 13 seconder concur? 14 CHARLES EREKSON: I'm okay with that. 15 VICE CHAIR BURCH: All right, that's a motion and 16 a second. All in favor? 17 COMMISSIONER KANE: Any discussion? 18 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Okay. Yes. 19 COMMISSIONER KANE: (Inaudible). 20 VICE CHAIR BURCH: Okay, go for it. 21 COMMISSIONER KANE: I thought we'd get a motion 22 and a second and then have discussion. 23 29 COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Michael always says he (inaudible). 25 VICE CHAIR BURCH: He knows his part. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 to it 12 13 14 15 16 1' 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER KANE: Commissioner O'Donnell has stolen my opening speech. I am new to this Commission. Many, many years ago I served on the Commission and Commissioner O'Donnell was there many years ago. I've always had this issue about kids in bars and alcohol around children, and the reason it's appropriate to bring up our history, Commissioner O'Donnell and I, is we had these discussions eight, ten, twelve years ago, and at that time we were promised an Alcohol Policy. So I'm not really addressing the motion, but I don't know where else to get this in on the record. We need an Alcohol Policy. I have all kinds of concerns about tipping point and about dominoes, not Domino's Pizza. I got a list from Town Staff of some 80 restaurants that are in Town, 40 of whom have what we used to call "B &W," beer and wine, while they're pending the application for "full booze," is what we used to call it. You know, I'm seeing that kind of attrition, erosion again, because if Super Duper Burgers gets the beer and wine, is the pizza joint far behind? Can they exist with Cola -Cola while the neighbor has got beer and wine? And I don't know if the CUP has —it may already have it —that they're applying for beer and wine. Where do we put Philz? Does he need Irish whiskey to put in the coffee? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard wa 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 is 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We need a policy, we need a line, and we need some understanding as to which way the Town is going to go. That's not the Planning Commission's job, but it is the job of anybody to say a clarification would help. The point about the history lesson is we're working off of an Alcohol Policy from 2001, I think, Tom. It's the same one we saw a hundred years ago, and it says, "Whereas we understand it can jeopardize public safety and we need to balance the regulations," and then we go to the Town philosophies, which I mentioned earlier about quality of life and harmony, and we're still doing the same thing we've been doing. So if this is the only opportunity, I have to say it. As I studied the case, as I made the visit, and as I looked at the schools, and as I looked at this list and which way the Town is going, we need guidance as to how... We need a Town Code, a law, a clarification as to how we apply an application. We don't legislate, it's quasi - judicial, but the legislators I think need to after 16 years give us some clarification on what we're supposed to do with alcohol, because other vendors need to compete. The pizza place needs to compete. This place needs to compete with Chipotle, and so on and on it goes. Where will it end? I don't know, but I'm frustrated by it and I don't know that LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 it 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we need the other 40 restaurants to get in line for their beer and wine or their full alcohol. Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you, Mr. Kane. LAUREL PREVETTI: Vice Chair? VICE CHAIR BURCH: Yes? LAUREL PREVETTI: We do have the Staff response to that for the benefit of the Commission and our listening public. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Great. LAUREL PREVETTI: To our knowledge Philz and the pizza place have no intention of selling alcohol, so they have not applied for that privilege. If at the time that they do, they would be going through a similar process with ultimate action before the Town Council. The Town Council actually agrees that our 2001 policy is old, and for that reason they set up an ad hoc committee to deal with both alcohol service and entertainment. The recommendations of the ad hoc committee went back to the Council last fall and the Council said that it was time to codify the policy and not just have it as a standalone policy. So we are proposing to bring back those code amendments for Council consideration to make sure that they agree with the language in a couple of nonths, and then it would come back to you as the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recommending body for any code modification, so you will have an opportunity to address the bigger policy issue that you're raising tonight. Thank you. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. COMMISSIONER KANE: Madam Chair? VICE CHAIR BURCH: Yes? COMMISSIONER KANE: To that point then, rather than come up with the conditions I've been discussing: 21 years old, hours of service, that kind of thing, I have a conflict that I'd be penalizing the Applicant, and that's not right. So I'm not going to make any conditions to the motion, but I do hope that we get some guidance on which way the Town wants to go so that we can adjudicate an application rather than try to make up new language. So to the maker of the motion, I don't have any conditions, unless someone else does. VICE CHAIR BURCH: Any additional discussion? All right, now we'll take a vote. All in favor? Opposed? Thank you. Okay, I was just told there is no appeal as this is a recommendation to the Council. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/14/2015 Item #2, 15991 Los Gatos Boulevard 61