Attachment 52 - Part 1 Verbatim minutes from the February 3, 2015 Town Council MeetingA P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Town Council:
Community Development
Director:
Planning Manager:
Town Attorney:
Transcribed by:
Marcia Jensen, Mayor
Barbara Spector, Vice Mayor
Steven Leonardis, Council Mem.
Rob Rennie, Council Member
Marico Sayoc, Council Member
Laurel Prevetti
Joel Paulson
Robert Schultz
Vicki L. Blandin
(510) 337 -1558
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
MAYOR JENSEN: We are going to move on to Item #6,
which I'm just simply going to identify as the North 40. I
will give a little preamble before we start, and that is
that as all of you know who are interested in this item,
it's been under discussion by the Town, with the Town,
through the Town, for many years. It's going through the
North 40 Advisory Committee, it's gone to Council a couple
of times, it's gone through the Planning Commission, and
after the Planning Commission it's come back to the Council
a few times.
One each occasion that I've cited there has been
public input, public testimony and public hearing. At our
last meeting on this in December we actually reopened the
public hearing after it has been closed and certified the
EIR, indicating that the EIR was sufficient under the law,
that it met the requirements of the California
Environmental Quality Act, and left any findings or any
other required statements to be handled on a different day
LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL 2/3/2015
Item #6, North 40 Specific Plan
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depending on what, if any, specific plan ended up being
adopted by the Council.
Since that time that the public meeting has been
closed the Council has continued to receive written input,
emails from you, we've received Desk Items tonight. I'll
just cite Los Gatos Community Alliance Desk Item, one from
Ms. Quintana, one from the lawyers for the Yuki family, and
numerous other input that we've received as Council members
since our last meeting. So I want to assure everyone that
the Council has certainly heard, understood, read and
considered all of your input and we very much appreciate
it, so we're going to proceed with a Council discussion
tonight without public input.
I have asked the staff to go through this
discussion in a certain way, which I've actually shared
with members of the Council, and hopefully the Staff is
going to give us those points. We'll keep these bullets up
along with, when it's appropriate, a page reference or
chart reference so that members of the audience can follow
and the Council can follow what our discussion is going to
be. So if you look at the bullets that are up on the
screen, that's how we intend to start. Ms. Prevetti, is
there a Staff presentation?
LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL 2/3/2015
Item #6, North 40 Specific Plan
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LAUREL PREVETTI: No, you've already acknowledged
that Desk Item and addenda that are before you. The team is
here, including Parks and Public Works Staff, economic
vitality consultants, Joel Paulson has significant
experience with the history of the program, Town Attorney
and myself, so we're available as a resource as you
continue your deliberations. Thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: Thank you, Ms. Prevetti. Before we
start, let me ask the Council if there are questions for
the Staff before we begin our discussion? I don't see any.
Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: No question, but maybe we
need to do disclosures from the last meeting.
MAYOR JENSEN: Sure, let's go ahead. Councilman
Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Since the last meeting
I've met with Grosvenor and SummerHill, and I also had a
meeting with several members of the Community Alliance.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Since the last meeting I've
met with Don Capobres of Grosvenor, and the residents
Lockridge, Quintana, Van Nada and Ristow of the Community
Alliance.
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Item #6, North 40 Specific Plan
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MAYOR JENSEN: I will simply echo what the Vice
Mayor said. I've also had those meetings with those people.
I have discussed matters that tangentially relate to the
North 40 with school board members, but that's it.
Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor. I
have met with representatives from Grosvenor, as well as
SummerHill, as well as various members in the community.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Well, like others I've met
with representatives from Grosvenor, SummerHill, Los Gatos
Union School District, as well as many interested members
of the community.
MAYOR JENSEN: And I'm going to just state for
everyone that we have read everything that we have been
given regarding this project by email, letter or whatever
other device we may have gotten it, and again, thank you.
So Council, what I'd like to do is direct your
attention to the bullets and /or the outline that you were
provided for tonight, and what we're doing is starting from
a top down approach with a discussion of the Specific Plan
itself, whether or not that continues to be the right
planning approach or tool for this project. So let's just
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start with the discussion of the Specific Plan, if there's
anything to discuss. Does anyone have any input regarding
continued use of the notion of a specific plan? Okay, no
one seems to have an objection to that.
I'll just say for purposes of explanation for
those who are in the audience and who may be watching, the
General Plan calls for a specific plan, which is
essentially a framework, an outline, that the Town develops
and adopts for development of a particular property, in
this case the North 40 Specific Plan area. It is not an
application, it is an outline for what the Town would like
to see for future development, and that's the direction
that the Town has chosen to take in its General Plan.
I'm just going to look for consensus. I guess
raise hands of the Council for those who think that the
Specific Plan continues to be what the Town should be
doing. So I'm seeing a consensus for that.
So we will move on to a discussion of the Vision
Statement, and Mr. Paulson, if you could put that up so
everybody can see what we're talking about. If you're
following along and you happen to have your very own
Specific Plan in your lap, it's that highlighted box on
page 1.1.
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The question for us to discuss for the Vision
Statement is, those of you who have been following this
project, it went through the North 40 Advisory Board for
some time, and then the General Plan. It came to the
Council, and the Grosvenor representative will know the
exact date, I can't remember, but there was a time when the
Council decided that what it needed to do was adopt a
vision plan, or a Vision Statement, for the Specific Plan,
and what you see on the board is the result.
So my question for my fellow Council members is
does this still reflect the vision that the City Council
sees for this Specific Plan area? If it does, do we agree
with it? Do we think there are changes that need to be
made? Do we think that it needs to be clearer? I would look
to the Council for any discussion of the Vision Statement.
Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: What I'd like to do is
point to the third, "The North 40 will address the Town's
residential and /or commercial unmet needs." Given the
history of where we were when this Vision Statement was
created, the context and the environment of what we are now
looking at has changed significantly. What I would like is
to add at the end of that "and state requirements" so that
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it would read, "The North 40 will address the Town's
residential and /or commercial unmet needs and state housing
requirements."
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, I'm going to make sure that
we get this right for the record. The first time you said,
"state requirements," the second time you said, "state
housing requirements."
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Oh sorry, "state housing
requirements."
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so you are looking for
essentially a Housing Element statement on the mission.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Correct.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. Anyone else? Councilman
Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Actually, I'll just echo
Councilwoman Sayoc. I was thinking exactly that. I would
have stated in terms of try to meet our RHNA numbers with
this, but the way she stated it sounds fine to me.
MAYOR JENSEN: Anyone else on that point? Vice
Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Question of Staff. Let's put aside my personal opinion
about RHNA numbers and how we may or may not meet them, but
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to the extent that we have a RHNA obligation and to the
extent that housing may be constructed on the North 40 at
some point in time, wouldn't those numbers count against
our RHNA obligation?
LAUREL PREVETTI: We are still in the process, as
you know, of identifying how the Town would like to meet
its regional housing needs allocation, or RHNA, number. We
have identified a variety of adequate sites that the
Housing Element Advisory Board is still considering and
debating and no decision has been made. Once the board does
identify those adequate sites, then those are the sites
that we will be facilitating housing through a variety of
programmatic elements.
So that's the Housing Element where we're
planning for housing. The work that you're doing here on
the Specific Plan, and in the event that it is approved and
ultimately housing is approved, then as we do our annual
Housing Element Progress Report we would be able to
acknowledge our progress towards meeting our Housing
Element obligations. so it depends whether or not this site
ends up being within our Housing Element and whether or not
we'll be acknowledging any progress regardless, but if in
fact it does become part of our Housing Element, we'll be
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paying higher attention to whether or not it is providing
housing.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Madam Mayor, if I might? I'm
going to make it easier for myself. Let's say the RHNA
numbers say we should have 600 new homes in Los Gatos, and
let's say that the North 40 is not included in your Housing
Element, but let's say 300 homes are built on the North 40,
couldn't the 300 be subtracted from the 600 when we report
out to the state?
LAUREL PREVETTI: It will be, but it would be
essentially extra capacity that the Town has created.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: Let me just make a statement for
any of you who on the off chance don't know what RHNA is.
It's an acronym, Regional Housing Needs Assessment, and
it's set by the Association of Bay Area Governments. It is
• number of housing units that ABAG has determined through
• criteria process that each community in the Bay Area must
demonstrate that it can provide for affordable housing. So
when you hear people say RHNA, that's what they mean.
Councilman Leonardis, did you have any comment on
the Vision Statement?
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COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Going back to what Ms.
Prevetti said, could we potentially mandate that if this
project were approved, and let's just say there were 364
units added, could we specifically state we want these 364
units to count toward our RHNA numbers?
LAUREL PREVETTI: Yes.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Rennie, before I call
on you, I'm going to ask a question.
At the Housing Element Advisory Board, and Mr.
Schultz may want to answer this as well, the board has been
discussing whether to include any residential units on the
North 40 in our plan to meet state requirements. My
question is if the Council were to specifically designate
in the Vision Statement or elsewhere in the plan units
towards the RHNA, would there be different development and
review standards for those units than there might be under
the normal Town processes of review?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes, under your housing, your
RHNA numbers, once you designate those, and that's what
we've talked about, you have by right, so it could
potentially be different. Hopefully through your Specific
Plan though you're going to have a Specific Plan that has
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those guidelines that will give the developer or the
property owner knowledge of exactly what you're looking for
and the type of unit so that it's potentially possible that
that project would go through though the same process of
just A &S, a design guidelines review, to be approved also.
I'm not sure if I'm quite answering it, but it certainly
has a different requirement once you designate them as RHNA
under your Housing Element.
MAYOR JENSEN: I think you've answered it, but
just to be absolutely clear that in the Specific Plan there
were, for example, a hundred units designated as RHNA
housing for purposes of our state requirements, then the
review that the Town would make once an application came in
for a hundred houses would be limited to determining
whether it was in compliance with whatever was in the
Specific Plan, but nothing else? No CEQA review, no traffic
review, no height review, no nothing?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: And that's possible without it
being named as your RHNA numbers, and the end game is that
they could come in with a hundred units and just go through
the A &S process and be approved without any CEQA, because
you've already done that CEQA through your Specific Plan.
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MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, thank you. I just wanted to
make sure that that was clear. Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: My comment question is
along the same lines. My understanding is what we would
need to do in the Specific Plan is designated as a minimum
of 20 units per acre, which is I think what combination
SummerHiil /Grosvenor /Eden's plan is already, then we could
include that in our Housing Element and that would allow us
to take some of the AHOZ off. My understanding is this
would be superior to Los Gatos, because with the Specific
Plan we get more local control. As soon as we put an AHOZ
zone on we lose a lot of our local control. We can ask for
less things, we can put less stipulations on it, it's kind
of fast tracked through. Is my understanding correct?
LAUREL PREVETTI: The buy right provisions would
apply both to the North 40 and to the Affordable Housing
Overlay, or AHOZ, sites, as our Town Attorney just
described. So if it were the will of the Council to
consider the North 40 when the Housing Element comes before
you, then the 20 units to the acre would be one way of
having it qualify. The act of rezoning essentially
establishes the buy right. We've already zoned the
Affordable Housing Overlay Zone sites, so that action
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already occurred with community process and noticing, et
cetera, so you would essentially level the playing field
between both.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If I could follow up. So
part of the AHOZ zones is 20 units per acre plus another
35% bonus, but do we have to give the 35% bonus in the
Specific Plan also?
LAUREL PREVETTI: You probably will, yes, because
you would meet the minimum. If the project qualified under
the state guidelines and a developer requested a 35% state
density bonus, then yes, you would be obligated to provide
that.
MAYOR JENSEN: Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor. The
addition of the wording, "state housing requirements," I
think that was the suggestion by Ms. Sayoc, I'm going to
have to listen to all of you, but right now it is not
something that I would add.
First of all, I would not add it because the
Vision Statement and Guiding Principles, as they now stand,
are not mutually exclusive of that concept, and secondly,
those RHNA numbers and their ramifications to our town
still have to vetted by the Housing Board, and they're
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shaving... Well, I don't know if they're having a challenge
with it; they may be having a challenge with it. Then it's
(going to go to the Planning Commission, and then it's going
to go to the Council, so I'm not prepared at this juncture
to add that phrase, because it may have the negative
ramifications that have just been explained to Council
Member Rennie, and it may have very negative ramifications
to our North 40 area. As with regard to any specific
developers, what that specific developer may or may not
have, that is not what is before us this evening.
MAYOR JENSEN: I'm going to jump in and make a
comment, and then I want to move our discussion somewhere
else perhaps.
I agree with Vice Mayor Spector. I think that the
Vision Statement is broad and very general and an unmet
need is certainly an unidentified Regional Housing Needs
Assessment per state law, so I think that we are obligated
to comply with state law. We are just identifying our
broad, general goals in the Vision Statement. We are
identifying residential unmet needs as one of those I think
by implication that that has to include any kind of state
law obligation that we have, so I would tend to agree with
the Vice Mayor and not want to be specific in including
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that language. Any other discussion on that proposed
addition? Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Given what I've heard, I'm
prepared to table this thought and that added language for
now, because there are parallel tracks of what's occurring
with the Housing Element as well as what's happening here
in the North 40. The reason why I put that out there,
particularly today as we discuss this, is the Vision
Statement, at least for this Council member, has changed
dramatically when I look at residential unmet needs from
when we looked at it as a North 40 committee versus where
we're looking at it now as we're looking at the Town's
total housing requirements. So I can understand that there
are two parallel tracks, and we can see how those tracks
intersect, if they even do, and so I just leave that for
others to think about.
MAYOR JENSEN: Other comments on the inclusion of
the housing requirements language in the Vision Statement?
Okay.
Actually I have a discussion item about the
Vision Statement, again on bullet number three, or actually
the entire thing.
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If you read it, the Vision Statement refers to
throughout the Town. It does not pick out a geographical
area, which is kind of interesting, because when you look
at the General Plan with respect to the North 40, and there
are land use elements, et cetera, that are called out in
our Staff Report, it does, in conformance with what a lot
of people have had to say to us, talk about serving the
residents of the north side of Los Gatos. If I look at this
Vision Statement, it does not say that. So number one, I
think there's a conflict, and number two, I wonder if it
makes sense to have something... I agree with looking at it
vis -a -vis the entire town.
So if start with the first bullet and I say,
"Will look and feel like Los Gatos," that's inclusive of
the entire town. "Will embrace hillside views and open
space." Everything in Los Gatos should do that. "The North
40 will address the Town's residential and commercial unmet
needs," not the north side. And, "The North 40 will
minimize or mitigate impacts on Town infrastructure and
community services."
So I have trouble with the fact that a lot of the
testimony has been focused on what's good for the north
side, because I don't see that in this Vision Statement.
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I'm ready, willing and able to listen to my fellow Council
Members about why I should be looking at just the north
side, given this Vision Statement and why this Vision
Statement is valid, but I'll just throw that out for
discussion. Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I
should first say a disclosure. I was one of the two people
who wrote the Vision Statement and Guiding Principles, so I
have a vested interest in it.
That being said, during the entire time that the
North 40 Advisory Committee was working on the Specific
Plan we had probably a thousand issues, and very often we
would circle back to the Vision Statement and Guiding
Principles to answer it, or to try to answer it. It really
helped.
I don't think that there is a disconnect between
the wording "unmet needs" and some people's focus on the
north part of town, because you can say that the North 40
is supposed to meet the Town's unmet needs. One might argue
that a small Target is an unmet need and we should put it
in the North 40 and it would address the entire Town's
unmet needs. That's consistent with the Vision Statement.
Or, one might say that we have no small restaurants way in
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the north part of town, and so you put small restaurants
there, because it meets the needs of that part of town as
opposed to the south part of town where we are now, so the
Vision Statement addresses that along with the Guiding
Principles. So I don't see a disconnect between the unmet
needs, nor do I think it is just supposed to address the
north part of town, but it could address the north part of
town.
MAYOR JENSEN: Any other comments on that notion?
Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I was just going to add
that I think I agree with Vice Mayor Spector, but if you're
concerned about the north part of town I think we can look
at our policies that follow sort of the next level down and
make sure that that's added in there.
MAYOR JENSEN: Any other comments? Councilman
Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: I concur with Vice
Mayor Spector's comments. I think the interest for the
north side of town, and primarily where it appears there is
some separation or special attention being paid in all of
our correspondence to that area, is because of their
proximity, but the statement is all inclusive. It's all of
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Los Gatos, which includes the north side of town, so I
don't look at any necessary changes to the Vision Statement
language in that regard.
MAYOR JENSEN: Any other discussion on that issue
or any other issue with the Vision Statement? Okay, I'm
going to summarize and again look for just a show of hands
consensus.
What I heard was that the Council is fine with
the Vision Statement, that we are tabling for now an
addition of language regarding meeting housing requirements
in bullet number three, and that the Vision Statement is
sufficiently general to include not only the needs of the
north side of the town but other places in town as well.
So is that what we are hearing and including? So
just by consensus? All right.
Now we'll move on to the very easy part, the mix
of uses in our Specific Plan area, and I'd ask for a chart
to go up. Hopefully we can make that lots more visible,
maybe move it up a little so that the light's better.
That's Table 2.2, which appears at page 2 -10 of
the Specific Plan. Mr. Paulson, maybe I'm going to ask you
just while you're up there to summarize that for everyone
in case they can't see it.
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JOEL PAULSON: Sure. What the table shows, Table
2 -2, is that residential will have up to 364 units;
combination of office and /or hotel will have up to 250,000
square feet; and that commercial, excluding office and
hotel, so other uses, retail, restaurants, specialty
markets, personal service, entertainment, would have a
maximum cap of 400,000 square feet.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so Mr. Paulson, just for
purposes of our discussion, what I'm going to ask the
Council to do —if we can, and maybe we can't, so Council
members please let me know —is discuss those very, very
broad numbers that are a distribution between commercial
and housing without getting into more specifics. If people
think that it's not useful to go this high up on our
discussion, we could just move to a discussion of housing
type and amount and then commercial square footage amount,
so I'm looking to the Council to see where do they think
that the most productive discussion could happen.
Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor
Jensen. Regarding the 364 units, to me there should be some
kind of limitations in the square footages in those units.
For instance, you're going to have housing for the
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millennials, but what is the limitation of the sizes of
those units? Is it 500 square feet? Is it 500 square feet
times 364 units? So I think there needs to be a deeper
definition of square footages in reference to those 364
units.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so that might be more
specific discussion of housing type and amount, and that
appears at page 2 -28, section 2.7.3. So if we want to take
on housing first, there is the section in the proposed
Draft Specific Plan that deals with the number of units,
the square footage. Councilman Leonardis, do you want to
speak more specifically about that, or just put your
comment out?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: My comment is out
there for discussion.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. So does anyone have... Vice
Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor. A
question of Staff, if I may?
This provision that we're now looking at on page
2 -28 is very general and does not really speak to Mr.
Leonardis' questions, and I'm trying to remember, at some
point in time in the evolution of the Specific Plan did we
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have a chart that delineated the square footages with
specificity?
JOEL PAULSON: What I'd offer through the Mayor
is in the Glossary there's a conceptual hypothetical
scenario, and so I'll put that up now.
MAYOR JENSEN: Can you let us know, is that in
our Appendices or in the back?
JOEL PAULSON: That is in the Specific Plan on
page 6 -16.
MAYOR JENSEN: Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Just for clarification,
since we're going to this, which actually does answer my
question of where it is, remind me, the fact that we put it
in the Glossary, was that of significance in the sense of
how important it was or how controlling it was to the
Specific Plan?
JOEL PAULSON: I would look potentially to
Council Member Sayoc also since she was involved in that
conversation.
This was originally, as I recall, in the Specific
Plan, and so there was quite a bit of discussion about
whether or not that should be maintained in the Specific
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Plan and ultimately was moved to the Glossary for a
hypothetical scenario rather than hard, fast rule.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: If I may, when we put it
in the Glossary... I'm going to take a large discussion on
this. When we were looking at residential there was
significant debate over one, whether residential should
even be there, and two, the number, and because one of our
Guiding Principles was to minimize the impact to school
districts our thought was what type of residential unit
would minimize the amount of children, the child load
factor? And this was the compromise that was reached by our
committee, that realistically single - family homes, single
detached family homes, created the largest school load
factor, so we eliminated that. Then we looked at the size
of the units, saying that nothing larger than 2,000 would
be included, which is why you see the townhomes and row
houses up to 1999.
We decided to put it in the Glossary. I saw it as
that was the limitation. By having it as defined in the
Glossary it was clear to those that would then process the
application that these were the criteria we were looking
at.
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MAYOR JENSEN: Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. It doesn't really
make any difference what I remember or don't remember, but
my sense was the Advisory Committee was having a challenge
as to what size units we should have, and so we moved it to
the Glossary in order not to have to put it into the
Specific Plan. But putting that aside, whether it's in the
Glossary or whether it's not, I think it is a very good
methodology for us to begin addressing the, I think,
important questions raised by Mr. Leonardis.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I think the concern that
we're trying to address is the student generation rate, and
I have been thinking about this quite a bit and thinking
well, do we limit sizes below 1,000? If you recall, when we
had open testimonies there was a lady that spoke about
millennials wanting certain sizes, and actually she was
really talking about urban settings versus ours, which is
not really an urban setting.
I did sort of ask some questions of Grosvenor and
SummerHill when I met with them last about this and I
discovered it would be difficult to limit to certain sizes.
Well, I mean you can limit below 2,000, but I was thinking
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how many units could be below 1,000, for example. And then
they showed me some designs that they were planning where
they had a 1,600 square foot unit where the way it was
designed there was no way you were going to put kids in
there.
I came to the conclusion it's difficult to try to
limit size to get the limit in the kids. It's also about
design, and if we limit it too much, now you're also
limiting the flexibility to create a nice product that if
it's designed correctly will not allow kids.
Potentially we may want to try to beef up our
policy more around these areas versus setting minimum
limits, or at least not set them too far down. Hopefully
that's clear.
MAYOR JENSEN: Good enough. Council Members, any
other questions before I weigh in on it, because I haven't?
When I look at 2.7.3, which is actually part of
the Specific Plan that refers to the number of residential
units, it refers to gross square feet of various types of
uses. Then in 2.7.3(a) it says, "Residential units shall
range in size," et cetera, and it refers me back to the
Glossary that's here. So I'm just wondering, because it
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says, "shall," hasn't the Draft Specific Plan already
included these ranges, and why do we have it in a Glossary?
JOEL PAULSON: I don't know the exact answer to
that, I'll be honest, but I think as is represented here,
this was a hypothetical example, if the term "shall," and
it obviously does reference back to this Glossary
definition, then this is something that could be done. It
also allows for some ranges, and I know during the Advisory
Committee conversation we had a lot of discussions about
ranges and the challenges with ranges, so I believe even if
you look here with these conceptual ranges of total gross
floor area, the caps are the same as are in 2.7.3, I think
the 400,000 square feet and the 300,000 square feet for the
various product types.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilwoman Sayoc, you had your
hand up.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: I think it's a great
discussion, talking about the size, the design. I do agree
that all those factors weigh heavily in developing the
residential units that we're going to have, but I still
maintain that the actual units are of more concern, because
each unit will generate a load factor to our traffic, and
if you look at what is specifically happening in our
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community, regardless of the size of the unit ranges of the
design you will have families moving into our area
specifically to have their children go into our school
district. I think it's a common occurrence that we all
know, and so I still maintain that the best way to look at
this is by the actual units. All these design parameters
are great, but it's still the reality of what we're looking
at when we're looking at whether or not this is the maximum
allowed.
MAYOR JENSEN: Before I call on Vice Mayor
Spector I just want to ask Mr. Paulson again, so I could
read 2.7.3 Residential Units A, as, "Residential units
shall range in size," just as a generalized factual
statement: they shall range in size. For example, they
could be the chart that we're looking at here is... I'm
thinking that that's probably what the concept was, and if
I understand Councilwoman Sayoc correctly, I don't think
that we had gotten to that discussion, but if you were
talking about just talking about the number of units to be
allowed, like 364 or some other number, then I agree with
Councilwoman Sayoc not only for school impacts, but for
traffic impacts and other impacts. Reducing the number of
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units to me is a way to achieve that, not only the number
of units, but potentially the size. Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. I personally
agree, and the Advisory Committee agreed, that you can say
it isn't just the millennials who were our target group for
housing, it was also seniors. In fact, seniors were our
fastest growing and largest growing community of residents,
so we were looking at those two groups. we were mindful of
the fact that generally you can't put limitations on
whether or not a family lives there, or a single guy or a
senior family.
But circling back to what the Mayor and Ms. Sayoc
were saying, if we want to start at the 30,000 foot level
on housing, it would be to examine the total number of
homes and whether or not we wanted it to be 364 or not.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Let me go the opposite
direction. I was actually thinking that we want to
incentivize senior units and I was going to propose
something to the effect...
Maybe this starts with a question for Staff. I
don't think we can limit something to a certain age in our
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Specific Plan. Is that correct that only the developer can
do that, but we can't put age limit in our Specific Plan?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: No, we can designate senior
housing in our plan.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. So I was under the
impression we could not, so that was part of my thought
anyway, so let me continue.
My proposal was something like what if we put a
carrot in there that if you build 60 senior homes, which is
what's already planned at 500 square feet by Eden, then you
could allow a bonus. You can pick a different number. I
said a round number of 100 senior units at 500 square feet
per unit above the 364, and my reasoning is the General
Plan already allows somewhere around 500 - and -some number of
units. Senior housing generates much less traffic and it's
likely to not generate it during the peak periods. It goes
after one of our growing unmet needs. By 2030 one in four
people in the county will be over 65, so to me I'm actually
thinking an incentive that would add more units versus
reduce units, so I wanted to put that on the table before
we got too far down the reduce units side.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. No, we haven't reached any
decisions on this yet. We're still just making comments and
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asking questions. So I have a question. where did the 364
units come from?
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Mayor, that was a
number that was come up with at a North 40 Advisory
Committee meeting, and that was the number that has been in
there since.
MAYOR JENSEN: Come up with by whom? The
developer, a Staff person?
JOEL PAULSON: It was a member of the Committee,
as I recall.
MAYOR JENSEN: And was there any data, evidence,
anything surrounding the 364, or was it random?
JOEL PAULSON: I do not recall any data to
support the decision.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: A question of Staff. Did
that come from the General Plan? Because I don't remember
the genesis of that number.
JOEL PAULSON: That was in the North 40 Advisory
Committee meetings.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: I was a Committee member
and I don't remember that or who proposed that, but to be
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fair though, the General Plan when we first began this
process had I believe up to 750 units that was being looked
at, and it was slowly whittled down. I don't remember
exactly how we got to 364. I don't believe it was actually
by any one person, because we did do things by consensus,
but just so that those in the audience understand, it was a
process where there were actually higher numbers that were
being looked at.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor. So
the specific categories of units, for instance Cottage
Cluster, Detached, it shows 40 -50 units, the breakdown of
each and every type of unit. Where do those numbers come
from? How did that mix get allocated?
JOEL PAULSON: I think those were numbers that
given the potential product types that we were looking at
that our consultant at the time, RM, who is still our
consultant, I think that was work with Staff and our
consultant to come up with some parameters around that.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: So let me see if I can give us a
little bit of direction. Start with just the concept of the
number of units. Councilman Rennie has indicated that he
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thinks there should be incentivized for certain types of
units to go over 364. We've had some comments that people
might think that 364 is something that should be worked
with, if you will, by the Council. So let me just see if we
can do a discussion around that, leaving aside the chart
that's up on the board right now, around the idea of 364
units, and see where we go, if anyone has any comments on
that. Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: A couple of thoughts to
that. One is the reality is we're looking at not only
traffic generation rates, but we're looking at school load
factor rates, and what's great is that there is an ongoing
process right now where potential developers are working
with the school district to look at what exactly will
happen if this is developed, and a demographic study was
just created and it looks at the different housing types
and how many children we can expect to be generated.
I know that discussion is ongoing, and I would
hate for us to finalize any number until we have more input
from the school district on how that conversation is going
and what in their opinion is the best way to mitigate the
school impacts.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Leonardis.
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COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: I would say the
numbers we should be focusing on are 364 units or less, and
perhaps an increased allocation of senior housing within
that 364 units.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: If you recall the
discussion we started about RHNA numbers, I don't know if
we completely killed that off, but if we consider trying to
get more RHNA numbers here, the thought process is if we
don't go for RHNA numbers here we reduce the number of
units. That may mean that we get below the 20 -unit density
and we can't get RHNA numbers out of this. That means we
put housing here and we still have to put another 617 or
619, whatever the number was, somewhere else in town.
I still like the idea of thinking about getting
RHNA numbers here and eliminating AHOZ zones in other
places. That would say to me increase units — again, I'm
arguing for increased units, I guess, but you know —so we
can actually reduce units other places, or at least make it
less buy right other places.
MAYOR JENSEN: Vice Mayor Spector, you have any
input on this? Okay.
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So my input is it's very difficult to figure out
where you go from a specific number that nobody can tell
you where it came from, that we don't have any data that
indicates why it's good, bad or indifferent.
I disagree with Councilwoman Sayoc that we should
not do anything until we get more input from a specific
party. I think we've gotten a whole lot of input and that
we need to do our best to come up with an idea of where we
are going to attempt to mitigate impacts across the board.
Not just with the school district, but I mean if we took
the idea that we're now going to ask everyone, we would ask
Campbell to not development Dell, we would talk to Good
Samaritan Hospital, we would talk to Caltrans. It's our
unfortunate burden to try to figure how we're going to
mitigate these impacts and we've got to come up with
something that is reasonable.
It troubles me, just because this kind of thing
troubles me, that there's no evidence upon which to base
the 364 number, so I have to go back and say to myself
okay, how do I as a decision maker come up with something
that I think is reasonable to mitigate the impacts that
we've all heard so much about to include school impacts in
looking at these residential numbers? Vice Mayor Spector.
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VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor. I
think that those of us up here on the Council have to
understand that the work done by the Advisory Committee and
probably by the Planning Commission before us required us
to make hundreds of decisions, and most of those decisions
had to do with numbers. As I tell my husband, when I get
there and I have to make decisions on the North 40,
sometimes I feel like I'm on a high dive. I'm going to hold
my nose and I'm going to jump in and hope that there's a
lot of water, because I don't know.
I don't know where we got the 364. I do know that
it was a reduced number from where we started. I would
imagine, based on everything else we did, that we all
discussed these numbers. Do I know that 350 is better than
364, or 390 is better than 364? I don't. But we are going
to have to come up with a number, and this is a maximum
number. It doesn't say thou shalt build 364 residential
units, do I am comfortable with us using 364 or some number
in order to move on.
I'm also comfortable with us designating a
greater specific number for senior housing. I'm also
comfortable with us designating the square footage as
smaller so that it will accommodate seniors and
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millennials. But you're not going to get any perfect answer
that the light is going to come in and just tell you what
this perfect number is.
MAYOR JENSEN: I'm still waiting for that. I'm
going to throw something into the mix that's not just the
number of units, but I wonder, and maybe Staff can weigh in
on this for me, whether it's not necessarily appropriate to
talk about number of units so much as it is appropriate to
talk about total square footage as resulting in a
limitation of units? Can anyone make comment on how that
would go backwards, if you will?
For example, if the Council were to say we don't
want 400,000, we want 300,000, is that a rational way of
limiting the production of units without designating a
number? The plan was written the way it was for a reason,
and I'm just trying to figure out if my interest is to
reduce the density of this project to mitigate impacts that
we've all heard about and I want to reduce density of
residential, and I hear the Vice Mayor saying that yes,
there have been many years, and I totally understand her
point of view, but if I thought based on everything I've
read, heard, et cetera, that I think it's appropriate to
reduce the density of what we're allowing, is square
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footage a more appropriate way to do that then picking a
number?
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Mayor, density is the
basis for the calculations. Even if you were to reduce the
square footage, if you reduce the number you'd still have
the same number of units that may be in different
categories, but I believe that the number of units is the
way to help mitigate your concern, or your potential
concern of the density of the project.
The square footage is really more an intensity
question. It's the number in combination with the size, so
density is the strict dwelling units to the acre for
specific projects. We've had conversations in the past on
other projects where the technical density isn't really
that high, but the perceived density is high because the
units are large on small lots, for example.
MAYOR JENSEN: Before I call on Councilwoman
Sayoc I'm going to ask you just kind of a follow up.
Councilman Rennie said that senior housing
produced less traffic. We've had environmental studies,
traffic studies, et cetera, regarding traffic. I don't
recall seeing anything broken down for senior housing. I
know that senior housing can sometimes require less
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parking, it may produce less traffic, but I am not sure if
there's any data to support that, Mr. Morley.
MATT MORLEY: On the screen are the IT numbers
for the various land uses, and those are the ADT rates on
the far side outlined by the type of units that we're
discussing.
MAYOR JENSEN: Thank you. Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Just in the hopes of
moving this a little bit forward, without looking at
specific units, the 364, I would be in favor of maintaining
the 20 units per acre so that we can hopefully address some
of our regional housing numbers allocation, and within that
density that differentiation between density and intensity
I would actually like to see the square footage of each
unit decreased. I think it would address some of the senior
housing, affordable housing, as well as millennials housing
that we've discussed that we're targeting.
I think there are other ways to help offset some
of the traffic issues that we're looking at as well as
school load issues if you look at the entire parcel and
look at realistically where those units, where that acreage
could be placed. So if you wanted to look at it strictly on
a density level, I could support that.
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MAYOR JENSEN: Let me see if I can attempt to
kind of summarize where there might be consensus. What I
hear is that we have several Council members, I think maybe
four at this point, who are interested in potentially
increasing the requirement for senior housing. I'm looking
around to see if I'm getting nods, and I'm getting nods.
Okay, yes, Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: On that issue, increasing
senior housing, I'm looking at page 228, and maybe I'm
looking at the wrong page or maybe I'm not looking at
enough pages, but I don't see where senior is defined in
order to figure out what we're increasing. Am I missing
something?
MAYOR JENSEN: You're not. It's not called out.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: So then in order to increase
it, we would have to know what it is to increase it.
MAYOR JENSEN: I think the increase that is
getting referred to, which it shouldn't be frankly, is the
upcoming proposal from a particular developer, so I think
that if the Council wanted to designate of the 364 units a
number, for example, for senior housing, set aside, I think
we could change the Specific Plan to do that. Ms. Prevetti
is nodding. Is that an option for us?
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LAUREL PREVETTI: Yes, it is.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I wanted to make a
comment on that. You know, it's what you know is planned
that kind of biases you a little bit, or helps you
understand what could be, and then you need to write the
words to get closer to that. So we know what they're
proposing and Eden Housing will build affordable senior
housing that are 500 square foot housing that very
affordable for seniors. If you just specify senior housing
or you specify a size, it's not going to be the same kind
of product that Eden is providing that's quite affordable.
I just wanted people to keep that in mind, and that's kind
of why I wrote it as an incentive for affordable senior
housing, add more affordable senior housing of that style.
MAYOR JENSEN: I'm going to ask a question then
to follow up with Ms. Prevetti. I'm assuming that if the
Council included some designation for senior housing,
keeping in mind that this is a Specific Plan for the Town,
that an applicant could come in with affordable senior
housing, market senior housing. Would the mix that
Councilman Rennie is talking about be better addressed
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through a Housing Element designation or better addressed
in a Specific Plan designation?
LAUREL PREVETTI: From my experience I would
recommend that if the Council has a specific outcome that
you're looking for that you would actually put it in the
Specific Plan so there would be clarity. And it is
important to specify the product type, so if you're looking
at affordable apartments per the chart that's up on the
wall on page 6 -16, Apartments /Affordable has been
identified as a range of up to 750 square feet, so that's a
very specific category, and if the Council wished you could
define that as senior housing.
The development community is very creative, so if
you're not clear about which project goes with senior, they
will make seniors work in cluster housing and in any other
product, so if you care about that you'll want to be as
clear as possible in the Specific Plan.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. Councilman Rennie, since
you're kind of leading the charge on this, do you have a
suggestion that you want the Council to consider? Not that
I want to put you on the spot or anything. You can say no.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: It didn't quite get
bought last time. Let me just repeat it that I'm thinking
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make it an incentive that if you put a certain amount of
affordable senior housing, and maybe we describe it a
little more so it matches the Eden, because I think that's
exactly what we want: 500 square foot affordable housing.
Then you get a certain number more affordable housing. I'd
like to see it as an incentive, first requirement.
One thing I would be careful of is usually what
happens is you put in affordable housing, but it's kind of
subsidized by the other housing that goes there, so I would
be careful saying half of 364 have to be affordable
housing, because now you may not make it economically
feasible for a development to put it in.
MAYOR JENSEN: Comments? Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor
Jensen. Moving back to something that Vice Mayor Spector
said about we continue to discuss senior housing and
amounts of senior housing, but how are we going to define
what senior housing is? Council Member Rennie mentioned
Eden Housing would be developing a project for seniors. One
of the stipulations is it's one person 55 years or older in
the house. Is that the way we define it, and do we define
it that way across the whole development?
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LAUREL PREVETTI: I don't recall a specific
definition. I've seen 62 years of age and other limits in
other contexts. I think it's important while there's
certainly a pending development application that might help
us understand how the Specific Plan were to be applied, I
just would like to remind the Council that you're creating
the policy that will be applied for future applications, so
you can define that as you feel best to meet the needs of
the Town. The Town Attorney may have additional advice on a
definition.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Now, there are a couple of
different requirements in the Fair Housing sections, and
I'd have to come back with you on the 62 and the 55. There
are different requirements that apply to each and we could
look at those if that's the direction Council is going in,
and then come up with that language.
MAYOR JENSEN: Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Through the Mayor, I do
have a question of Staff. Whether the number is 364 or 300
or whatever other number, 20% of that has to be below
market, is that correct?
JOEL PAULSON: The Specific Plan, I think as it
currently reads, is a minimum of 20% should be affordable
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housing. I believe there is policy language to that effect.
Additionally, the Town Code currently for that number of
units, if a project came in with a hundred or more units,
then the BMP requirement normally per Town Code is 20 %.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: At least 20 %, okay. So
right now we're at 72.8. Could we specify that the
affordable units be senior, or does it have to be open to
all available through our BMP?
JOEL PAULSON: I'll look to Counsel for Fair
Housing modifications.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: You can designate in your
Specific Plan an area and number of units that you want to
be senior housing. That's acceptable.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: Okay.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: And then we have to define of
course what you mean by senior housing, and that's where
I'd have to come back with those figures.
MAYOR JENSEN: Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor. For
the Town Attorney, I just want to clarify; you said you
have to designate an area. Did you mean a physical area? I
mean just say, for example, we say we want 50% of the units
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to be senior, however you subsequently define it. We don't
have to have it in an area, do we?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: You could if you wanted to.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: But we don't have to?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: No.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, in an attempt to get
something out of this, I'm going to look to the members of
the Council and just ask the question: Are people
comfortable moving forward with the 364 unit number, the
max? And if you're not, let me know. Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: You're calling it a
max?
MAYOR JENSEN: Calling it a max. Okay, so you're
raising your hand. You are comfortable with it?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Yes.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so I see Councilman
Leonardis and Vice Mayor Spector are the two that are
comfortable with that. Okay, so let's throw that out for a
moment.
of those who are not comfortable with it, does
anyone have an alternate number in mind? All right, I will
throw out 300 just to start the discussion. I know I'm
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going to get lots of anguished sighs about that, but I'll
just throw it out in an attempt to get a high, get a low,
and get to where we can reach some kind of consensus. vice
Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. I sort of feel
like I'm playing poker, but I play poker. Anyway, I don't
recall any magic at 364, and since it was a maximum I was
still okay with it. Is there significance to the number
300, other than it's less than 364?
MAYOR JENSEN: Frankly, it's less, and it's my
experience that if you write something that says maximum I
guarantee you, you will get that number. So I am trying to
get to a number that at least as a decision maker I can
feel comfortable with saying that it was my best attempt to
reach a mitigation for the various issues that have been
called out to us on this project. I haven't heard a good
data point for 364, so I'm thinking my 300 is probably just
as good, but I am actually looking for a reduction.
I understand the argument that Mr. Rennie is
making about hitting RHNA numbers, and I understand the
argument for affordable and for senior, and I do think that
senior has a reduced traffic impact. I also think that
certain small types of millennials housing, when combined
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with the right kind of uses around it, could also have a
reduced traffic impact.
Really what I'm looking for in proposing that
lower number is to look to the Council for are people
wanting to reduce the square footage or the number of units
in an attempt to mitigate some of the issues that have been
raised, or are members of the Council comfortable with that
number as a maximum and want to go forward with it? So we
have two that have said they're comfortable with that.
Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor
Jensen. You know, this is difficult because we have the
state saying we need these numbers and we have to meet
these numbers, so in attempts to try to help meet some of
those numbers, obviously units are nice in that regard. Of
course, in an attempt to reduce traffic and all other
impacts that come with numbers, obviously you want less. So
it's kind of a tug of war. If the amount of housing were
reduced, what would go in its place? Would it be more
commercial space, and what would the impact of that be?
Would it be more open space? So we have those questions
that could rear their heads coming soon, I suppose. Just
some random thoughts.
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MAYOR JENSEN: Councilwoman Sayoc.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: For me, I'm going to give
you my two largest factors for determining the residential
units.
One is what can we allocate toward our regional
housing numbers? I'm having a difficult time looking at
this application just as the North Forty Specific Plan and
keep looking at what do we as a town have to look at in
terms of housing? Whether it's 364 or 300, if we can
allocate that so that it would satisfy our RHNA, I would be
comfortable. That requires a density of 20 units per acre,
and so I guess I'd have to see how that would pencil out.
The other concern for me is making sure that the
load factor is distributed fairly throughout the 44 acres,
and if you're looking at traffic I don't believe that it
makes sense to have all the housing in one specific part of
that. I'm also particularly concerned about, again, the
school districts. You have two school districts, actually
four, and I think if you can offset it and have it equally
so that both school districts have the benefit of absorbing
whatever school factor load comes in, I think I would be
comfortable.
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MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, let me make another stab at
this. The Specific Plan area, am I correct, Mr. Paulson or
whoever else, is it currently zoned 20 units per acre, or
would the Council have to take an action to zone it that
way?
JOEL PAULSON: The zoning is not currently 20
dwelling units an acre. There is a variety of zoning
designations that were provided, I believe today, in the
Desk Item. The past projects in the mixed -use commercial
General Plan designation have been allotted up to 20
dwelling units per acre, but there is no minimum 20
dwelling units per acre in the Town currently.
MAYOR JENSEN: And if you have that chart that we
get in our Desk Item, that's got the zoning on it, if you
could put that up. And while you're doing that, Councilman
Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: Okay. Sorry if I keep
arguing my case, but a couple more facts.
I did ask Grosvenor the question about how much
retail they thought they were going to get on the site, and
based on the size and the height limitations they didn't
think they were going to get 560 square feet of the various
retail combinations on there. So that tells me if you
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reduce housing, you're making more room for them to get the
rest of their 560 retail, and housing, I think we've
learned before, is much less of a generator than retail, so
I'm concerned that we're going the wrong way.
I guess I didn't put it as one of my reasons, but
for adding senior housing, it generates a lot less traffic
than half as you saw regular housing, but if they go with
the incentive and eat up more of the commercial space,
you're actually going to reduce traffic even more.
MAYOR JENSEN: Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. I'll go address
these backwards on my notes.
Reducing housing does not necessarily increase
commercial retail. That will all be defined in the Specific
Plan.
I had a question of Staff on the issue of
spreading out the residential. I don't remember right now
what we currently say about residential. I mean do we say
that it has to be X amount in a certain district, or do we
have the ability to spread it out?
JOEL PAULSON: I don't believe there is any
requirement currently in the Specific Plan to spread it
out. There may be some policy language that offers that to
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recommendation. Can we spread it through? I believe the
Council, if that's their prerogative, can make that part of
the Specific Plan.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, I would agree. Thank
you.
And then the last one, on the 20 acres per unit
if we wanted to avail ourselves of RHNA bennies, how do we
get 20 units per acre —help me out here —on a 40 acre site?
How could we use the North 40 for RHNA and accommodate the
20 units per acre?
JOEL PAULSON: Well I think there are a number of
options. What the plan currently says is up to 364 units.
You potentially could say a minimum of 18.2 acres or a
minimum number of acres that would accommodate 20 dwelling
units per acre would be part of the Specific Plan.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: All right, so if we could do
that we could say rather than 40 you're going to have a
smaller amount, so then when you put the units there you
get the correct number. Okay, thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so just to respond to Vice
Mayor Spector, pages 2 -3 and 2 -4 of the Draft Specific Plan
describes and calls out the proposed districts: the Lark
District, the Transition District and the Northern
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District. All of them have residential designated in them
with the exception that the Northern District has a
particular kind. It says, "Residential (above commercial) -
including condominium, live -work flats," et cetera. I'm not
sure that I agree with the Northern District designation of
above commercial, however, right now there is residential
that's per the Specific Plan allowed in each of those
districts.
I think we understand where the various positions
are. Let's see if we can get to something. We're not going
to go through and edit this thing tonight, clearly. What
we're going to do is hopefully reach some consensus
motions, which I've been trying to do, and ask the Staff to
come back to us with those obviously at a future meeting I
would think at this point, unfortunately, although I never
give up hope.
Well, let me call on the Vice Mayor first. Maybe
she's got an idea.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you, Madam Mayor.
Given what you just said, I think that you can move forward
on this. You can see if you have a consensus on your 300
maximum, or some number, but right now that's at play. You
can request or suggest a 20 units per acre to be on a
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limited number of acres so that it gets you the RHNA
provisions, and you can have that distributed throughout
the property rather than in a limited amount of property.
So if you want to go that direction, I think you have
enough information from Staff to do that.
MAYOR JENSEN: Thank you. I'm going to drop my
300, because I think it's going nowhere. Is there consensus
on the notion of designating a particular number of acres
at the 20 units per dwelling acre section? I'm getting
nods. Let's see what we get with hands. Hands from everyone
but Councilman Leonardis. Councilman Leonardis, do you want
to convince us why we're wrong on that, what your position
is?
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: I think if it's just
we're working with the Specific Plan, that could be
determined later when the design comes through, so I don't
know, maybe I don't fully understand it, but I would just
leave the flexibility out there for the developer.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, I think we have 4 -1
consensus to designate a particular number of acres for 20
dwelling units per acre.
Before I get into a discussion of what that
number should be, let's go to the question of distribution
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of residential across the plan area. Is there a consensus
that there should be a distribution of residential across
the plan area independent of the Specific Plan sections
with respect to the districts that I just talked about?
Vice Mayor Spector. Oh, you're raising your hand yes. Are
there any other yeses? None.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I'm not sure I understand
what you're proposing.
MAYOR JENSEN: The question is independent of
what kind of residential it is, the question on the table
is are you or are you not in favor of distributing the
residential throughout the plan area as opposed to limiting
it to a particular district or location?
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I thought that we
squeezed it all into the Lark District on the theory that
that really fits with the residential that's already in
town, and as you move towards the highway, as you move up
towards 85, you're now in an area that's really 85 and 17
and that's less appropriate for people to live in. It seems
to me that the housing is squeezed that way for that
reason. I know we are allowing some above commercial in the
Northern District, but I don't think really any planned, so
I guess I'm on the fence on your question.
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MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. I'm just going to refer you
back to the plan language, again focusing on the Specific
Plan. The Transition District allows residential, the Lark
District allows residential, and the Northern District
allows residential, so the way the plan is written now,
residential is allowed throughout the plan. Do you have any
objection to that I guess is what I'm asking?
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: It's sort of
contradictory to try to get it together in 20 units per
acre though if it gets spread out.
MAYOR JENSEN: Well then, I think that I'm going
to confirm hopefully with Mr. Schultz and Ms. Prevetti that
whatever acres are designated in the Specific Plan, if the
Council so chose, could put those acres where it wanted, it
wouldn't have to all be in one single spot, is that right?
LAUREL PREVETTI: That's correct.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: So I'll say yes, you can
spread it throughout to make it easy.
MAYOR JENSEN: There you go. I'm going to keep
beating you down though. No, it's fine. You don't have to
agree. We could just do 4 -1. Vice Mayor Spector.
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VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Actually that's what I was
going to say. If we want 20 units per acre, then we know we
have to designate X amount of acres in order to get that
number, because if we spread it over 40 it won't work, and
so that number is just a mathematical calculation, so you
come up with a mathematical calculation and you spread it
throughout the property.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so we have a consensus on 20
units per acre zoning for a particular number of acres,
which could be one spot, two spots, three spots, multiple
spots within the Specific Plan area, and we have consensus
on distributing it throughout the Specific Plan area.
What we don't have is how many acres, or I'm
going to go back again to the number of units, and if I
focus on it, given what we've just done as a maximum, is
there a consensus on a maximum of the 364 units that is now
contained in the plan at 2.7.3? Councilman Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: Thank you, Mayor
Jensen. Again, I think 364 would be a good maximum. It's a
number that came from somewhere; it's a number that has
been used for a number of years. I think it's been used for
so long that we're forgetting the origin of it. It seems
reasonable, so I would say the word "maximum" is clearly
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the word "maximum." It can be less, and based on the
conversation about 20 units per acre and the amount of
acres that can have 20 units on them, it can add up pretty
quick to just a few acres of housing if they're all going
to have 20 units per acres on them, so we'll leave it at
the 364 max, and down.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, other comments on that max
unit number? Councilwoman Sayoc is pondering.
COUNCIL MEMBER SAYOC: I'm stuck on the word
"maximum." I think I would be comfortable with a 364
maximum if it goes toward all our regional housing needs
numbers so that we don't have to look at alternate sites
like the Los Gatos Lodge, for example, and if it were
distributed equitably throughout the parcel so that it
wouldn't be a burden just to one particular school
district.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. I agree with what
Councilwoman Sayoc just said in some respects. What worries
me is that if there is a designation that the 364 goes to
regional housing needs, doesn't it then get a density bonus
on top and it's developed by right and it has to all be
affordable with a 35% bonus, correct?
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LAUREL PREVETTI: That's correct, but again, we
have evidence that there are other product types that still
are 20 units to the acre that also can be developed at a
market rate price. So for purposes of RHNA, if you want to
meet the 20 units per acre, that could certainly satisfy
our RHNA needs.
MAYOR JENSEN: So I'm going to go back, and then
I'll call on the Vice Mayor.
On the Regional Housing Needs Assessment, as I
understand it, the state case law or develop law is that
the state presumes that if a parcel is zoned 20 units per
acre that it's going to develop at 20 units, and those
units can be counted without anything more, without a sign,
without anything else besides the zoning, as a regional
housing needs parcel, correct?
LAUREL PREVETTI: That's correct.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. Vice Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: That's what I was going to
say. But I was also going to say that trying to address
Council Member Sayoc's concerns, the 20 units per acre
could by definition count toward the RHNA obligation. We
can say in the Specific Plan that it's spread out
throughout the 40 acres from north to south.
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And then we get back to the 364, and I agree with
Council Member Leonardis. It's survived the test of time,
even though I don't know where it came from.
MAYOR JENSEN: That may not be a good thing, but
Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I'm a little concerned
about spreading them out. I guess I agree with the idea of
getting some out of the LGUSD school district. My concern
is, again, the appropriateness for sticking them up in the
Northern District, because I know we haven't talked about
retail yet, but the unmet needs that we're targeting there
I believe I would argue for, or things more like general
merchandising, which we don't have in the Town. We want to
create a different kind of shopping experience in the
Northern District than we have downtown, so to me that
means —let me just pick some —we might end up with an REI and
Target or something up there, or something of that sort.
And so now I'm imagining what a Target and Target parking
lot looks like, and REI looks like, and now I mix in some
housing with that and it doesn't sound very appealing to
me.
And I know that their current plan is not to put
any houses up there, even though we're allowing it, because
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they're planning basically a synergistic retail for there
where you have two or three anchors, like the ones I've
described, and then some other small ones. How
aesthetically can you can you fit housing into that?
MAYOR JENSEN: And so again, what I'm going to do
to try to focus our discussion is to say that the Draft
Specific Plan currently does allow housing in each of the
districts and that if we wanted to go away from that we'd
actually have to change it, and again, the plan being the
big picture and then the developer to come in under that
plan. Councilman Rennie.
COUNCIL MEMBER RENNIE: I'm okay with the
flexibility. I'm worried about adding more limitations
that, again, forces the housing to be where it doesn't
really work.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay, so we haven't talked about
any kind of language with respect to distributing housing
beyond what we already have in our plan, which is allowing
it in each of the districts. What I'm hearing is the
consensus is that we're going to designate a certain number
of acres as 20 units per acre, and that we want as a
consensus to spread that residential across the parcels,
which is currently allowed under the Draft Specific Plan.
LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL 2/3/2015
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I'm going to look for nods to see if I've summarized where
Ocam =x{aM
Now, before I go to where those acres might be
I'd like to go to the discussion of designating a portion
of those maximum units to affordable, where you already
have 20 %, or to in particular, senior. So are there
proposals on a number or percentage or some other way to
designate a goal, if you will, for senior housing? Vice
Mayor Spector.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Thank you. I just want to
emphasize we're looking at 20% BMP, so if we had 364 units,
72 would be BMPs, so we would have that if we had 364
units. I don't think we have verbalized a consensus on
that. So now we're looking at of the remainder —this is a
question of the Staff and of the Mayor —what number, or what
percentage, or what size do we want to designate as
seniors? Is that where we are?
MAYOR JENSEN: That's what I'm asking, yes.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: Okay, thank you.
MAYOR JENSEN: Any ideas on that? Councilman
Leonardis.
COUNCIL MEMBER LEONARDIS: I think we should
probably take a look at our current population and see who
LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL 2/3/2015
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actually fits in those categories now and how we're
currently distributed, and then consider distributing it
Ithe same way potentially based on our demographics, not
necessarily our current housing, obviously, because we're
looking to add senior housing.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. Before I call on the Vice
Mayor, Mr. Paulson, can I ask you to put up that Glossary
chart again? So when I look at that breakdown of the type,
size, et cetera, of housing, would it make sense for the
Council to consider adding a box, if you will, to the chart
that's senior housing that would be described in some
fashion? Ms. Prevetti was talking about
Apartments /Affordable, but could there be —and maybe it
doesn't fit there, because it's talking about a "product
type," a term that I don't like, by the way —a box for
senior housing? Does that make any sense?
JOEL PAULSON: There certainly could be. What I
would offer is that that box that Ms. Prevetti mentioned
earlier in the Apartments /Affordable in that size range,
the senior product type would fit into that, as I think has
been currently stated, so I don't think there's anything
precluding the Council from adding a box, but I think that
type of unit really is encompassed in this chart currently.
LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL 2/3/2015
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MAYOR JENSEN: Before we move on, Ms. Prevetti,
if it's encompassed in the chart, would then the Council,
if it wanted to put in senior housing specifically, put
that into what's now our proposed draft 2.7.3 where we're
talking about units and square footage?
LAUREL PREVETTI: Yes, and you could do it in
both places. Add the word "Senior Affordable" if that's the
will of the Council to be very clear, and then also
reinforce it in the Policy Section 2.7.3.
MAYOR JENSEN: Okay. Vice Mayor Spector, you had
your hand up.
VICE MAYOR SPECTOR: All right, I get the senior
affordable. Well, maybe I don't. Senior affordable,
assuming that we actually call that out on the chart, is
there some kind of legal terminology or size that we have
to give that type?
LAUREL PREVETTI: Again, I would defer to our
Town Attorney regarding the legal implications, but based
on the discussion that we've been having this evening and
the desire to provide and ensure smaller units for a
particular demographic, that meets the row that's already
in this table regarding Apartments /Affordable.
LOS GATOS TOWN COUNCIL 2/3/2015
Item #6, North 40 Specific Plan
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