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Attachment 14 - April 25, 2022 Planning Commission Verbatim MinutesLOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A P P E A R A N C E S: Los Gatos Planning Commissioners: Melanie Hanssen, Chair Jeffrey Barnett, Vice Chair Kylie Clark Kathryn Janoff Steve Raspe Emily Thomas Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti Community Development Director: Joel Paulson Town Attorney: Robert Schultz Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin (619) 541-3405 ATTACHMENT 14 LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S: CHAIR HANSSEN: We can go ahead with the agenda item for tonight, which is the continuation of discussion of the Draft 2040 General Plan as well as the Final EIR. Just to recap for people that might not have been able to attend the last meeting, what we have decided to do in terms of reviewing the documents is to start out reviewing element-by-element and save the Land Use and Community Design elements, which have the bulk of the public comments that we’ve received in terms of volume, until the end so that we can put a lot of focus on that. We wanted to make sure that we addressed any comments that came in on the other elements. In our last meeting we got through the Public Facilities, Services, and Infrastructure Element, and so we will begin the discussion tonight on the Open Space, Parks, and Recreation Element. I would like to ask Staff, since you did do another Staff Report, if you would like to make any Staff Report before we begin our discussion this evening? JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. You covered most of what I was going to say, Chair, but I do want to go over LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 just to make sure everybody is clear exactly where we are in going through the review. So good evening, Chair, Vice Chair, Planning Commission. We are continuing the discussion of the General Plan, and we have received verbal public comment and closed the public comment period. We were going through Exhibit 7 and made it through the Introduction; the Racial, Social, and Environmental Justice Element; the Mobility Element; and the Public Facilities, Services, and Infrastructure Element. That means that the next one that we will be proceeding to is Open Space, Parks, and Recreation. Depending on how much we get through this evening, the order as we go through that document includes the Environment Sustainability Element, the Hazards and Safety Element, then the Land Use Element, and Community Design Element, and finally, the Final EIR. We did publish a brief Staff Report on Friday, as well as a Desk Item today, for your consideration, but this does conclude Staff’s presentation, but we’re available to answer any questions. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you very much for that, Ms. Armer. Do any Commissioners have questions for Staff at this time? I don’t see anyone hands raised. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 When we get to Land Use and Community Design, Land Use in particular, I will talk a little bit more about what I would like to do in terms of proceeding forward on that, but to recap what Staff had said, we were going through Exhibit 7. Exhibit 7 from the Staff Report from the April 13th meeting did contain a wonderful summation by Staff of all the public comments that have been received over the course of the last year since the Draft General Plan was released, and we’ve been using that in terms of making our comments, and what we had been doing in our last meeting is for every element there are a number of comments. Staff has given their recommendation as to whether they’re neutral, meaning they don’t have a feeling one way or another about whether or not it needed to be included or not; whether they did recommend it and suggesting that we would include that as a comment, that we would make it a recommendation to Town Council; or not recommended. Staff has done that for every single comment, and what we were doing in the last meeting is we were looking at the comments and making a note of the ones that we wanted to be sure that we included in our recommendation to include. However, it’s fine if you want to bring up LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 other ones and discuss it and see if we know where the Commission comes out on it; that is fine as well. We’ll be on page 10 of Exhibit 7, which is also page 226 of the Staff Report from the April 13th meeting, so why don’t we start on the Open Space, Parks, and Recreation Element? There were about seven or eight comments that came in. Would any Commissioners want to highlight items that we should consider for adding to our recommendation for modifying the General Plan? Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I’ll just begin. I thought that recommendations numbers 81 and 84 should be considered as part of our recommendation sent to Town Council. With respect to Item 86, while I thought the notion of additional play fields is a worthy goal, I think limiting it to soccer fields as opposed to any other kinds of fields felt inappropriate, and so if you want to consider that, I would make that a more generic recommendation. Finally, with respect to Recommendation 88, working with schools to make school fields available for community sports, I think that’s already covered in OSPR- 6.3. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. I thought so as well. I made a note about 86 and 88, and there was already a reference in the Open Space element about working with local schools, so if anything was going to be modified. And I agree that sports fields should be not just restricted to soccer fields and we should try to increase that, but I thought it might have been covered in the policies that were already in there, so I’m agreeing with your suggestions. I’d like to hear what the other Commissioners think. Let’s see, Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Janoff, and Commissioner Clark, and then Vice Chair Barnett. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I will be quick. I just want to say that I agreed with 81 and 84, the two that I would want to recommend to include. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s great. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I was just going to say I’m in agreement as well, with a note that on item number 83 regarding the state Quimby Act, I don't know what that is, but if Staff thought that it was appropriate to add that, if that makes sense to connect it, but I don't know what it is to say yes or no. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: I actually am glad you brought that up, Commissioner Janoff. I was wondering if Staff could comment on the state Quimby Act requirements, because when I read through the implementation program and policies it was fairly generic. The goal is to try to encourage more open space dedication, but how to go about doing that isn’t as clear and if there was a Quimby Act that was more definitive about how to do that, so could Staff maybe comment on that? Is that something that seems reasonable to add? JOEL PAULSON: Thank you. I’ll jump in, and if Ms. Armer has anything additional. Generally the Quimby Act looks at the amount of open space, park space, that a jurisdiction has based on population. We actually exceed the number here currently in the Town, so that’s why we don’t have any Quimby Act implementation measures. CHAIR HANSSEN: So that really wouldn’t help us unless we were below that, so we should be covered. Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: I am not sure if there’s a reason we haven’t discussed number 87, like if it’s already being incorporated, because I know that there has been discussion around turf happening, but if it’s not already LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 being implemented I would be supportive of the inclusion of number 87 as well. CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m actually glad you brought that up. I made a note thinking it might merit an implementation program, because I’ve seen very vocal arguments on both sides of this to not have artificial turf, and then also to not have grass, for example, that requires a lot of water and is not environmentally friendly either, so to me it seemed like an ideal thing for an implementation program, but I would like to know what other people thought. I thought it might be worth at least discussing, and it looks like the Town Manager has something to say before I ask anyone else. LAUREL PREVETTI: I just wanted to say that this might be one of those areas of level of detail that might be best determined on a project basis with the Town Council as opposed to having it legislated here in the General Plan, and I defer to Ms. Armer, who might already be able to point us to some direction in the draft. Thank you. JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, I wanted to share that when you are looking at the Public Facilities and Services Element there is an Implementation Program C, which is specifically about determining the appropriate use of artificial turf. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you. We went through that in the last meeting and I had forgotten about that, so at least it’s already covered, and then there’s also the thought that there are other ways to tackle the issue in terms of on an individual project basis as well. Are there other Commissioners? Vice Chair Barnett had his hand up before for general comments about this section, so go ahead, Vice Chair. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I agree with the comments that have been made so far; I had noted to that effect. But I wanted to bring up comment 85. I’m not sure what that means. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems to be kind of obscure. CHAIR HANSSEN: My read on this was I made a note connecting 82 and 85. The first comment in 82, it sounds like it came from the Parks and Recreation Department themselves, and that statement was made that their services are provided on a full cost recovery model, and prior to that statement it was that they received Town facilities at a discounted rate, or something like that, so I think they were reacting to they don’t agree with the description of the business model. My recommendation was actually to take out the full cost recovery basis, because I don’t think that’s a necessary detail in the General Plan. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Then there is reference to continuing to work with Parks and Recreation to do services, and as part of that discussion they might want to renegotiate their business model in terms of working with the Town, but I don’t think that needs to be in the General Plan. That was my thought on it, so what do others think? Vice Chair Janoff has thumbs up. So my proposal was to delete the words “provided on a full cost recovery model,” and leave that as a detail in terms of how they work with the Town that can be worked outside of the General Plan, so if nobody has any objections to that, we’ll go ahead and do that. Thumbs up, okay. Does anyone else have anything that they want to discuss with the Open Space, Parks, and Recreation? I think we ended up talking about every recommended bullet point. Ms. Armer. JENNIFER ARMER: Just wanted to remind the Chair that last time we did do a motion for each of the chapters as to what the Commission was interested in moving forward with. CHAIR HANSSEN: Yes, and I would ask that we continue to do that for the rest of the elements that we’ll be discussing, and then at the very end we will have to do one on the overall General Plan as well as the overall LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Final EIR. So would someone like to make a motion to accept the Open Space, Parks, and Recreation Element with the changes that we’ve recommended in this discussion? Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Commissioner Janoff would move to incorporate the changes as recommended by the Commission so far on Open Space, Parks, and Recreation. CHAIR HANSSEN: Is there a second? Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Second. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. And then we’ll go ahead and do our roll call vote, and I will start with Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 So now we can move on, and Staff, you did have a record of what we discussed, and you had a nice recap of what we discussed last time in the Staff Report for this meeting. JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, thank you. I’ve got items 81 and 84, and removing the phrase, “provided on a full cost recovery model.” CHAIR HANSSEN: Perfect. So then the Environmental Sustainability Element is the next element we will discuss, and there are actually quite a few more comments. Before I ask any Commissioners for comments, I wanted to ask Staff a question. In looking at numbers 104 and 105 it looked like it came from Valley Water, and so what we had done in our previous meeting is since they are the experts of course on their subject matter we had just accepted those comments at face value without discussing them, so I’m going to ask Staff what their thoughts were about 104 and 105? JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you, Chair. As stated in the Staff Report, Staff’s response to those was neutral. That revised wording, if that is the will of the Commission, we could make those changes. They could either be considered first or could be part of your motion. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m happy enough to go with having the Commissioners recommend that, but I’m going to give the guidance that since we had done this previously with some of the other entities, that might be worth considering to do that, but I’m happy to have a discussion about it if someone wants to bring it up, but since we’re doing this thing where we’re going to accept certain comments, then hopefully it will be recommended by one of the Commissioners. That being said, like I said, it’s on the bottom of page 10 as well as page 11 and goes onto page 12 and to page 13, so it looks like there are about at least 20 comments that we should be considering or not considering. I would also say that although we’ve been proceeding this way anyway, if Staff is recommending not to include them, they generally have a very good and well thought out reason for that, so unless we feel like we should discuss it, that there’s no need to bring those up. I’ll start with Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you, Chair Hanssen. I was just going to say because there are so many for this one, do we want to like chunk it out by ten or so, just so that we’re not talking about all of them all over the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 place, or do like 89 through 96 first, and then the second page, page-by-page. CHAIR HANSSEN: Let’s do it page-by-page. Let’s do the comments on page 10, which are 89 to 96. Of those, which ones would you want to include? COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I would like to include 89, 90, and 91. I think that they are Staff recommended. The other two are just making things more thorough, which I think is good. I think that I also feel strongly about 95 being recommended, and it would definitely require a list of key terms of integrated pest management, but that is something that should be used. That should be the model that we should be using. That’s like the best model out there for managing pests and reducing the use of pesticides in particular. I do not think that we should include 93 or 96, because for 96 I don’t think we can actually ensure, “minimize potential damage to public health, native plants, birds, and other wildlife,” if that makes sense. And then for 93, I do not think that we should include, “while reserving some open space preserved for underserved habitat,” because I believe that has the potential to be LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 used like in a NIMBY way, and I think that it’s covered. What we need for Town is covered in that policy already. I did have a question about 94, maybe for Commissioner Raspe for the Town Attorney. Just adding, “and natural communities,” is that helpful in informing policy, or does that make this too big or too grand? CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m glad you asked that, because I also had a question. I was like how do you define “natural community”? Commissioner Raspe, you had your hand up, and then Commissioner Clark does as well. COMMISSIONER RASPE: I agree with Commissioner Thomas’ comments. A couple of points. With respect to 94, I also had a question. I think “natural communities,” as currently drafted, I’m not sure what it means and I would be concerned that it would be interpreted too broadly to be really useful, and so I would either not include that language or I would make natural communities somehow defined. Then with respect to 96, I also share Commissioner Thomas’ concern regarding the word “ensuring,” because I don’t think we can ensure, but I think it’s a noble goal and perhaps we could substitute the phrase, “working towards,” so we’re working towards minimized LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 potential damage to public health, so it doesn’t put an obligation on us, but it certainly espouses our desire to achieve what I think is a noble effort. Thanks. CHAIR HANSSEN: I thank you for that, because you have to read between the lines in terms of what we mean. So your recommendation would be to either delete it or to modify it to change ensuring to working towards that goal, because that’s the result of changing the approach and not using harmful pesticides, but we couldn’t ensure it. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Agreed, that’s my thought. CHAIR HANSSEN: I was just trying to make sure I captured in my mind what you were saying. Thank you for that. Commissioner Clark, you had a comment as well? COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes, thank you. I’m in agreement with all of the ones the other Commissioners have voiced approval for. I had liked 92, just because it makes it a little more specific that the species would be locally native, but I’d also be curious to hear if other people feel like that’s productive or unnecessary. I had been in support of 93, but I think I understand what Commissioner Thomas is saying about it potentially being used as a way to like maybe justify lack LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of public access or something, and so yeah, I think that sounds good. For number 96, I like Commissioner Raspe’s idea of changing the verbiage to “working toward,” because I think that clarifies that reasoning behind the task without actually trying to ensure something that we’re not able to. CHAIR HANSSEN: So your recommendation would be rather than take it out, to leave it in and modify the ensuring to something more reflective of why we’re doing it? COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, got it. On 92, I’ll see what other people have to say. I circled that, and my reaction was how do you define local? Is local Los Gatos? Is it Santa Clara County? Is it California? So I thought maybe the species was enough. That was me, but if others have a different thought on it, I would want to hear that. Let’s see, Commissioner Janoff, and then Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I’m in agreement with everything that’s been said, including the modification of 96, and I do like the idea of incorporating the word “locally.” More and more you hear people talk about you should be eating local honey, you should be burning local LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 firewood, it’s a real thing to keep materials within the local environment. If local is unclear, we could say “regional,” and that might be clearer. That obviously gives more of a geographical boundary than local, and I would be comfortable with that, but I think including something that is specific to our region is a great add. CHAIR HANSSEN: Just to clarify my comment, as long as it was clear what local is I had no problem with that, because what’s good for Southern California might not be good for us, and so I heard everything that you said. Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you. I did not mention this one and I do not support it for multiple reasons. I would say that there are definitely official resources and documentation of what species are local to the Town, to Los Gatos, and there are many maps of that. Many of those are old, and since then climate change has significantly changed the region and will over the next 20 years, and so I strongly disagree with including locally native species, because what was local and native or what is local today is not actually going to thrive here, and ecosystems are constantly changing, and so making policies based on what is a locally native species today is not good for conservation of biodiversity, but that’s because things LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are moving and ecosystems are shifting and ecotones are moving, so I strongly disagree with that one. I’m sorry, just because I know that it sounds good, and I do agree with eating local food and burning local firewood. I do think that that is a totally different use of the term and I agree that that’s really important, but I do kind of feel strongly about this one as an environmental scientist. CHAIR HANSSEN: I was going to say well said by our environmental science teacher. Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. I was going to also make a comment on 92 that was different before I heard what Commissioner Thomas had to say, but I think a way to actually get what we’re trying to get at would like maybe saying, “species that are adapted for the Mediterranean climate,” or, “that would naturally exist in this area at the time,” or something like that. CHAIR HANSSEN: So it would be your idea to try to change the wording so it was clearer and more reflective of changing conditions? COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. And the other thing I’ll say is we might be getting a little nit-picky here. It’s probably okay to leave it as is also. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Fair enough. Let’s just take two more comments on this and then we’ll move on. Commissioner Raspe, and then back to Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. Two things very quickly. First, I think Commissioner Clark made a comment with respect to 91, the especially native species in habitat language, adding that. I’m of two minds with this one. When I first read it, it almost seemed to me like it created a binary choice, for instance, we were going to maintain and enhance (inaudible) significant natural features, giving preference to native species and habitat as opposed to preserving all that exists. I just don’t want that inference to ever filter down to the language, but again, I’m not overly concerned, I just wanted to throw the issue up. Then I think Commissioner Thomas indicated her support of 89, and my questions for the Chair or Staff is who is going to define “designated creek” and how is that handled? Thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: So Staff, could you start with 89, because that actually is a good question, and you did LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recommend it, so could you start with 89 and then if you had anything to add onto 91. JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. If including a definition of the term “designated creek” is something that the Planning Commission is in support of, then we would work with the consultants and our Public Works Department to find an appropriate definition to be consistent with the work that we currently do with creeks and include that as part of a set of potential definitions, so similar to some of what was requested by the Planning Commission at the last meeting. There was at least one term, I believe “recycled water,” where a definition was requested, and we would provide some specific recommended language for that before going to Town Council. It looks like Director Paulson has something to add. JOEL PAULSON: Just a minor addition. We also would work with our other partners, Valley Water, San Jose Water, and some of the other folks who have regulations related to the creeks to make sure that that was consistent. CHAIR HANSSEN: And Staff, you did recommend this one versus being neutral on it, so I assume that you thought it was a good idea? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 22 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JENNIFER ARMER: Defining terms, if somebody thinks it’s a good idea, we’re in support of that. If somebody’s asking for a definition of it, then that probably means there are a number of people who want to know what it means. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, great. Did you have anything to comment on? You were neutral on 91 and 92, so I’m assuming that we should just work out what we’re going to recommend, but if you had anything to add, let me know. JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, I would say on those two that the language as it was pretty clear to Staff as recommended by the GPAC, and so those additional terms could be included, but I think we stand behind GPAC but we’re open to making those changes if that is what the Planning Commission feels is improving. CHAIR HANSSEN: I understand now why you were neutral. Before I go back to Commissioner Thomas, I’m going to make a more general comment that as I was going through this section, and I know exactly where some of the comments came from, that different people with different interests came in and they were putting like the word “biological” in something that was more generic, and I was having the same reaction as Commissioner Raspe, which is if we’re specifying biological resources, are we not taking care of LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 23 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 other kinds of resources? So I was having that reaction, which is to kind of keep it more general, since this is the General Plan, as long as we are not excluding something that needs to be taken care of. I’ll go back to Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you. I’m glad that these comments about 91 are brought up, because I did not read it in that way. I read that it was emphasizing that we especially need to protect native habitats and species, but I do understand how maybe it’s not necessary. Going back to 92, I would not recommend including Mediterranean plants, because a lot of those are actually invasive species, like all the grasses that we have here from the Mediterranean, they’re particularly invasive, because they adapted alongside human disturbance. I think that native species really does cover what we want it to cover, because I do think that in the world of landscape design guidelines native species has a very specific definition and there are very specific lists across the state. There’s a county-wide list that already exists for rebates and things like that, so I do think that keeping it just at native specific is going to achieve the goal that we want basically. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 24 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. We are so fortunate to have our environmental expert on the Commission, so thank you. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes, thank you, Commissioner Thomas. It’s great to have expertise that augments our conversation, and in light of the comments I would say that we keep 91 and 92 as written by GPAC, and if the Chair is ready I’m prepared to make a motion. CHAIR HANSSEN: On this page, yes. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: On this page to include the changes in number 89, number 95, and then 96 with the modification of “ensuring” to “working toward.” CHAIR HANSSEN: Did you not think 90? Because it was recommended in the beginning to do 89 and 90. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes, 89 and 90. CHAIR HANSSEN: 89 and 90, but not 91 or 92, and then you said 95, right? COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes, 95, and then the modification to 96. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. For my own sake I was trying to capture everything you said. So there is a motion from Commissioner Janoff. Is there a second? Commissioner Raspe. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I second the motion. CHAIR HANSSEN: So we will take the roll call vote, and I will start again with Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Then Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. So we got through page 10 of the Environmental and Sustainability Element comments, and now we will go on to page 11, and that includes numbers 97 through 104. Actually, just for the sake of argument, let’s include 105, because 104 goes onto the next page, and we’ll go up to 105, because 104 and 105 both came from Valley Water, so we’ll cover from 97 to 105 under this discussion, so comments on 97 through 105. Vice Chair Barnett. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 26 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I have a couple of technical issues starting with 98; the word “improves” should be “improve.” Then on 100, the way I read it, it’s talking about a decrease in the mitigation measures. CHAIR HANSSEN: So you’re saying the way you’re reading it is that we should decrease mitigation measures, is that correct? VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I think it’s saying to decrease mitigation measures, but I don’t think that’s the intent. JENNIFER ARMER: My memory of this comment was that they wanted to clarify that reducing vehicle miles traveled is not the only way to reduce noise and air quality impacts, and so it might be that slightly modified language would get at that point more appropriately and more clearly. CHAIR HANSSEN: I read it the same way that you described it, Ms. Armer, but maybe others read it the same way that Vice Chair Barnett did, but we should be clear. I lost track of who raised their hand and is next, so I’ll just go with Commissioner Clark, and then Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Raspe. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 27 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. For numbers 100 and 101, I felt like if we’re going to do that we need to at least provide an example or two of what those things are, because for me it made them a lot more unclear when I was reading them, and so I think if people feel like there is an understanding of what that would mean and we don’t need that, then that’s great, but for me as a reader I felt like it was a little too ambiguous. CHAIR HANSSEN: In that same one it does explain with an example of something that would decrease VMT. So you’re saying we’re not being clear about other mitigation measures from the noise and that would help improve noise and air quality? COMMISSIONER CLARK: You mean where it says TDM Programs? CHAIR HANSSEN: Yes. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes, that’s a good point. It would just say that and kind of be referring to it, even though that was already there in a way. CHAIR HANSSEN: So you think it could be clear if we added examples. COMMISSIONER CLARK: But I’m good with that change, like the theory of it. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 28 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Let’s see, Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you. I also felt for 100 and 101 that made them too broad. I know this is supposed to be a big and broad document, but for 100, because VMT is the gold standard for mitigating air pollution, I’m not sure if including other options is appropriate, and I would actually like to hear from Staff or maybe the Town Attorney on that, because I don’t want us to get in a situation, but I’m pretty sure VMT is traditionally most often used. Then the same with 101, “requiring developments to incorporate site planning techniques.” Is site planning techniques just like the standard that it’s people that are doing this know exactly what that means, and including other is just making it more confusing and actually not legal, if that makes sense? So those are my two comments about 100 and 101, and I see some people are popping up and their hands are up. CHAIR HANSSEN: Mr. Kim must be Staff, because he’s not a Commissioner, and (inaudible) as a panelist, so yes, if you could help us with this, that would be great. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 WOOJAE KIM: Yes, good evening, Commissioners. WooJae Kim, the Town Engineer. Regarding item 100, I would just be cautious about adding that additional phrase in there, because it is related to CEQA requirements. I’m talking about VMT. If anything, maybe changing that word “or” to “and” might help, but again, I would just be cautious about substituting VMT requirements with other elements. Thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s a very good point, but we are treading on CEQA in this comment, and we don’t want to have something that’s in conflict with CEQA law. Let’s see, Director Paulson, did you have something to add? JOEL PAULSON: Yes, thank you. Just for some big picture context, kind of the intent of this is if VMT is going to create air and noise impacts, those are all impacts that are going to be reviewed. VMT will have impacts. Air pollution and noise, they’ll each have their own sections, they’ll each have mitigation measures, and so that’s what I think this was originally trying to capture is that there are reductions to the VMT, which also might reduce impacts to both air quality and noise impacts. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Then the other techniques, again, from a noise perspective, if you have, for instance, residential uses near a freeway there are usually a handful of mitigation measures, whether that’s a sound wall of some height, whether that’s having a high-efficiency HVAC system so that folks don’t necessarily have to open their windows and be subject to those. Obviously, that’s a choice if folks want to do that, but those are the types of things that typically are in those categories as mitigation measures in the document. Just for big picture information for the Commission. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s helps. Thank you for that. Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. First of all, I agree with Commissioner Barnett’s comments with respect to 98. Then I think he’s correct in 100 that as currently drafted it would require a decrease in mitigation measures, which is actually the opposite of what we want. Then taking Staff’s comments into account, I think maybe if we are going to insert a phrase into 100, perhaps a better phrase might be, “and related noise and air quality impacts.” That way it’s supplemental to the VMT and it’s still we are interested in managing noise and air quality LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 31 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 impacts that are related to vehicle miles, so rather than casting the net too broadly, so I would suggest that change to 100 if we want to include language. With respect to other recommended changes, I would also recommend changes 103 and 104 and 105 as well. Thank you, Chair. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, 103 and 104 and 105, because I was asking you guys (inaudible) those came from Valley Water. Let’s see what the other Commissioners think. Commissioner Janoff, then Commissioner Clark, and then Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: On 100, I guess after hearing discussion, Commissioner Raspe’s recommendation is a good one, although I think if we just take out, and we’ll leave the language as GPAC recommended, I think that’s the simplest. Same with 101. Rather than trying to get nuanced about these things, it’s pretty broadly traffic generated and I think that’s clear enough. With regard to 103, I wasn’t thinking that we want to include “composting green waste and chipping programs” if the Town is not prepared to do that. That’s more of an implementation program if we want to go there, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 but that’s also already provided by other agencies, so I’m not sure that that’s a necessary add. Then I’d be in favor of incorporating 104 and 105 per Valley Water recommendations. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. No one brought up 103, except for you. I had the same comment. The way it was before, it says “extended producer responsibility and innovative strategies,” which could cover any number of things. Then I thought about 20 years in the future, I don’t know that it won’t be the case, but maybe there is something else besides composting and chipping programs that might be helping them mitigate environmental effects, so I thought it would be better to just leave it the way it was. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: We might have waste vaporization. CHAIR HANSSEN: I have faith, especially here in Silicon Valley, for people to come up with really new and innovative ways to deal with waste. Commissioner Clark, and then Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER CLARK: I’ll start just with 100 and 101. I think that we should leave them as recommended by GPAC. I think if we don’t say, “and these other things,” it’s not like we’re limited to only vehicle miles traveled. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We’re not saying only that, and so I don’t see a problem with leaving that language as is. I’m very in favor of 97. I think that if there’s a remodel or retrofit happening, then that’s also a great opportunity for that bird-safe lighting. Also, number 98, I liked those changes as well. I agree about numbers 104 and 105; I’m in favor of those two as well. CHAIR HANSSEN: Can I ask you and maybe Staff about 97, because I had a big question mark by that. What was in there before said, “require new development to increase bird safety by reducing hazardous building and architectural elements and including bird safe lighting design,” and the proposal was to add in addition to new development, which I would take to be where there was vacant land or a teardown, but it says, “remodels and retrofit.” In the past when we’ve had these kind of things come up we’ve tended to leave these things to new development versus remodels, but I’m going to ask Staff what kind of issues that might create to add remodels and retrofits to that statement? JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you, Chair. I would start by saying that there is generally concern about imposing some of these sorts of requirements on something that’s a LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 34 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 remodel or a retrofit. It really depends on the scale of the project, whether there is kind of that nexus that they’re putting enough money into the project that we’re not overburdening them with these types of requirements. It’s also a little more difficult to implement in terms of a policy, whereas a remodel or retrofit very well may just be a building permit and so doesn’t go through as extensive review as a new building would. So new development, I agree, we would consider that to include development of vacant land or significant replacement of existing buildings and redevelopment at the site. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you, that was pretty much exactly what was going through my head on that one, and you said it very well. For me, I would be happier to leave it as it was versus adding on remodels or retrofits, but let’s see what others think, and you’re welcome to comment on any of these. Commissioner Thomas, and then I’ll go back to Commissioner Clark, and then Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you for clarifying all of that and bringing that up, because I did also have that question about 97. One thing that we could possibly do to encourage this inclusion of bird safe design in remodels and retrofits is just add, “and when appropriate in LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 35 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 remodels and retrofits.” Is that a language change that would kind of cover the bases, like encouraging and be a possibility for when policy is being made for it to be looked into? That is my one suggestion with that change. Then for 100 and 101, I agree with Commissioner Clark that I’m in support of how the GPAC originally had it. If we do want to incorporate any changes, such as the one that Commissioner Raspe suggested, I think that we just need to add a verb like, “require decreases to vehicle miles traveled,” and something like, “other noise and air quality impacts,” because that’s what is missing from that phrase. Those are my comments. CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m going to ask you a question back, Commissioner Thomas. Considering what Staff said, what I heard Staff say is that when impacts are identified as significant in the EIR, you have to go back and mitigate them, and you would have to mitigate any impacts, so if the impact generated by traffic happened to affect air quality, it would have to be mitigated, so I’m not sure what it adds, because in the EIR perspective if noise or air quality was triggered, then they would have to go mitigate anyway. So do you still feel strongly about leaving it in there? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: No, I don’t feel strongly. I’m fine with not leaving it in, but I was saying if we were going to leave it in I think that we need to add a verb, that’s my only thing that I feel strongly about. But no, I agree. I do think that 100 and 101 become redundant in the way that they’re written, and we’ve covered the bases with how they were originally written and professionals originally wrote them. But for 97, I am interested if people think that “and when appropriate” would be helpful for adding in including remodels and retrofit? Staff, I don't know if you want to comment on it, or other Commissioners. CHAIR HANSSEN: Director Paulson has had his hand up for a couple of minutes. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. Just to let the Commission and public know, there actually is an implementation program to adopt a bird safe ordinance, which is Implementation Program N. Those are the types of details that we can consider, and then as it goes through that process through the Planning Commission and Council, they can make the decision on when those would be required versus encouraged, for instance, if it ended up being new development only, that doesn’t reduce Staff’s opportunity LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 37 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when we’re speaking with folks who are just doing building permits to ask them if they’ve considered bird safe options, so I think we’re generally covered there, but I just wanted to make sure the Commission knew that as they’re going through this discussion. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. I had forgotten that we had put that as an implementation program, so that helps. Let’s see, I’m going to go to Commissioner Clark, and then Commissioner Raspe, and then back to Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. Now that we know that it’s in an implementation program my only concern would be like limiting it by just saying new development, so I think I’d like to say require that new developments increase bird safety and encourage remodels and retrofits to do the same, just to at least have the idea in there that we would like for remodels and retrofits to do that. CHAIR HANSSEN: So that’s a compromise statement that could be modified. Item 97 could be modified. Let’s see, Commissioner Raspe, you had your hand up for a while, and then Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. With respect to 97, as I’ve been sitting here listening, I think LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 my mind has kind of shifted a little bit. Initially I thought we were going to create a line drawing problem with including remodels and retrofits. As currently stated, any ADU, any re-siding of a property, could potentially trigger a whole study of the project to make sure that there is no endangering of the birds, and I’m not sure that’s really the scenario that we want to create, and so the notion of maybe encouraging, as Commissioner Clark says, with respect to remodels as opposed to making it mandatory, that might solve that problem, but any requirement that remodels be required to take into account additional bird safety I think would be problematic. Then jumping down to 100, I had earlier suggested some changes, but as we discuss it I agree with my fellow commissioners that we adopt the GPAC language for 100 and 101. Thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. Before I go to Commissioner Thomas, I did want to make a point, and this happened a while ago, but a personal experience that I had as a resident. When we went to remodel our kitchen, when the inspector came in they wanted to check all the smoke detectors in the house, which I didn’t think was a bad idea, but it was unrelated to the actual matter at hand, which was the kitchen. So as I was thinking through LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 39 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 this I remembered that experience, and that would be my concern about doing something with this and not just leaving it to the implementation program to get more thoroughly vetted, which is that this thing could kind of create, even with the word “encourage,” some expectation that if you’re making a very small change like changing something that’s just a couple thousand dollars, that you might be having to look at issues in other parts of your house, so that would be my only concern, but I’m okay with leaving it in there with the knowledge that it’s going to get better vetted in the implementation program. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I could go either way on that one, so I’m happy to do whatever the majority of Commissioners would like. I do want to point out for number 103 that there are essentially like three different implementation programs that cover how to become a zero waste town, and they include things like composting green waste, chipping programs, all of that, and so I do think that that’s too specific to include in this goal, because we have them as implementation programs and they’re probably going to be part of the solution. CHAIR HANSSEN: Very good. Commissioner Janoff. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I’m prepared to make a motion at this time. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: In light of all the great discussion, I think where we are landing is that 97 could create problems unforeseen, and that’s not what we want to do, and so I’m seeing only number 98 with the modification that the Vice Chair Barnett recommended, I guess as well as landscape and biological resource; I didn’t have a problem with that. And 104 and 105, those are the changes that we would agree to modify. CHAIR HANSSEN: Is there a second? I saw a thumbs up from Commissioner Raspe, so I assume that’s a second as well. COMMISSIONER RASPE: That is a second. Thank you, Chair. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, let’s go ahead and vote on that, and I will go again to Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 41 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. So we’ve gotten through up to 105, and so then let’s just take the rest of them. It’s 106 through 116, and that’s like ten of them. I think that seems (inaudible). So 106 through 116 would take us to the bottom half of page 12 and the top of page 13 of Exhibit 7. All right, Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I have an easy one to start with. On number 112, I think we should say, “encourage waste water recycling,” so there’s no implication about a mandatory program. CHAIR HANSSEN: I like that. So that’s an easy one. So you would say yes, add 112 as long as it’s reworded to say, “encourage waste water recycling.” On that point, before I take any other comments I had a question for Staff. I thought, at least when I looked into it a few years ago, that it was really hard and really expensive to get gray water recycling for landscaping, get the infrastructure put in, and it maybe has moved since then, but I’m offering that in support of Vice Chair Barnett’s thing. Certainly it’s something that it would be LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 motherhood and apple pie to want to encourage, but I don't know how practical it is in the current environment, so I’m asking Staff if they have any knowledge of that? JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, thank you, Chair. We don’t currently have facilities in Town for that, but I will pass it off to WooJae Kim to add more. It looks like he’s turned on his camera. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you, Mr. Kim. WOOJAE KIM: This is WooJae Kim, Town Engineer again. Yes, for Town facilities, we don’t have such infrastructure set up, but we could definitely look into it further. The waste water for landscaping, the way I read this policy is that for both private and public to investigate a separate piping system that could be used for landscaping, and there are certain gray waters that you could re-pipe so that it could be used for landscaping, and that’s how I’m reading it. It is something, as Vice Chair Barnett has spoke, to investigate the feasibility of waste water and encouraging such improvements, and that could definitely be done for private developments, and maybe they choose to do that for water conservation and so forth, so yes, there are LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 possibilities out there, but definitely adding the term “encourage” might make some sense. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, thank you for that. Director Paulson, you have your hand up, and then I’ll go to the Commissioners. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you. Just to step back, this is a public comment to add a new policy to this effect. I’ll just draw the attention of the Commission to the Implementation Program UU and DV, which are water reuse and rainwater. UU is, “Develop an ordinance and guidelines to provide for the installation of gray water reuse in residential and business uses, particularly for landscape irrigation,” so there is a program to look into that. Then rainwater is, “Implement rainwater harvesting in municipal facilities throughout Town and encourage residents and businesses to use rain barrels or other rainwater reuse systems and offer incentives where possible.” CHAIR HANSSEN: I think that helps a lot, because I think that the general policy and direction in the plan is clear, and then with those implementation programs that add some more definition to how we would do it, but we’ll see what others think. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 44 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Let’s see, I thought Vice Chair Barnett was right after Staff, and then Commissioner Clark, Commissioner Raspe, and Commissioner Thomas. And we’re talking about the entirety of 106 through 116. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I didn’t mean to have my hand up. I’m sorry. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, then I’ll go to Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. I’ll just say some of the ones that I am interested in. I was good with 106, 107, 108, and 110, and then I am particularly passionate about 113 and 116. I thought that those should both definitely be included, especially 116. There were so many public comments about the plant-based eating education program, and so it’s nice to finally be able to discuss that after all of those comments. I think that conducing a wildlife corridor study would be really good thing and that is something that I’ve been hearing more and more about, and if we’re going to being doing anything about that, it’s probably important to understand where our Town is with those at the moment. CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m going to ask you a question back on 113, since Commissioner Janoff and I were on the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 45 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Commission when we did the Fence Ordinance. Here’s what we kind of came up when we did the Fence Ordinance. We had two groups of people. We had the land advocates and the environment, and all comments were very much appreciated. And then we had the land owners, and the land owners were saying things like, “Well, I spent $3 million dollars on my home, and it’s my home, and I don’t want deer laying underneath my kids’ swing set, because they have fleas and ticks, and I should be able to have a fence to prevent them from being in my yard.” So my first reaction when I read this is I remembered that, and I wrote down the comment, “We can do this, but what would the outcome of it be?” Supposing that the outcome was peoples’ homes that were already built and fences that were already built were impeding wildlife, what would we ask them to do? Tear it out? That was my reaction to that, so my reaction would be to not do that, but I would like to hear what other Commissioners think, so I’ll just throw that out there. So you’ve basically said you had several that you wanted to include, and including 113 and 116. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yeah, and I think for 113, that’s really good context to have, so thank you for that. I don’t think that that’s actually how I was thinking about LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 46 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the corridors, and so maybe if we did choose to incorporate 113, like if we do feel that that’s still a direction that things are going, it could be a study that takes into account the views and interests of land owners, because that could actually be a way to find a solution to that problem. CHAIR HANSSEN: As long as it went both ways, so that’s an idea about how to do that. Let’s see, I think it was Commissioner Raspe, then Commissioner Thomas, then Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. Starting with 113, Chair, you’ve stolen my thunder. Those were exactly my thoughts. My concern with this one is we’ve created a policy that is going to apparently study structures that are already infringing on habitats. If we create a policy, we then have to create a remedy in the event of infringement, or is it going to be enough for us to say yes, the structure is infringing and we’re content to leave (inaudible). It seems to me a difficult discussion to have, and I’m afraid I don’t have an answer for it, but I just spotted the same issue that I think you did. I also support Commissioner Clark. The 116, I think this was if not the leading public comment, the second most leading comment about having the plant-based LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 47 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 diet initiative in our programs. My only question is it’s currently phrased as in implementation program. I don’t recall how it was presented to us. Was it in different formats? I see Staff nodding, so I think it was as an implementation program then? JENNIFER ARMER: I can provide clarification that the GPAC did accept language from them for inserting into some policies, and so as a result of that they said in addition we also want an implementation program, and that’s what this is. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, I appreciate that, Ms. Armer. So then I’m fine with 116. As long as I have the microphone for one second, given Director Paulson’s comments, I think we don’t need 112. Although I’m in favor of wastewater recycling, it sounds like we have that already kind of under the umbrella of what we’ve got existing. Then the only other thing I would add, I would include 107. Thank you a bunch. CHAIR HANSSEN: That was already mentioned by Commissioner Clark, I believe. All right, let’s see. Director Paulson, you had your hand up, so before I go to any other Commissioners, I wanted to let you comment. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. Just wanted to add a little more information regarding 113. That probably would not be a good policy. We do have an Implementation Program M, which is Movement Corridor Plan, which does look at that potential for linkages for wildlife, so I think that would be covered sufficiently in that, should the Commission agree. CHAIR HANSSEN: So what you’re saying is that we do have an implementation program that sort of gets at that. I also had that thought about 113, which is that if we were to go in that direction I would want it to be important without too much structure to it until it had more discussion, because we want to avoid unintended consequences. Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Janoff, and then I’ll go back to Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I agree that numbers 112 and 113 are really covered in implementation programs, but I did have a couple of questions about that. With regard to number 113 and Implementation Program M, do we need to add to the implementation program not just standards and ordinances designed to conserve these movement corridors, but should we also be looking into possibilities of building infrastructure that can link LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 49 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 corridors? Because I think that, from my experience and understanding, we’ve already disrupted the corridors, so at this point moving forward if we really want to achieve protecting our local biodiversity and ecosystems we need to relink corridors that we’ve disrupted, for example, over/under Highway 17. I know that’s a huge project and it’s not something necessarily that the Town would be able to just like willy-nilly decide to do and pay for, but I do know that there is grant money and funding out there for that, so could we possibly add to Implementation Program M looking into that possibility instead of just putting ordinances in? I think it’s more about reestablishing corridors versus stopping the disruption of them moving forward. Then I do feel like we’ve totally covered 112, except I did have a question also for Staff about that one. When we say develop an ordinance and guidelines to provide the installation of gray water reuse in residential and business uses, does that also include looking into building the actual infrastructure to residential neighborhoods? I know that, for example, my school right now, we’re building a new building. We tore down an old building and are building a new building in the City of Mountain View, and the City of Mountain View requires gray water LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 50 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 installation even though our school doesn’t have the infrastructure to do that through the City, but it’s part of their long-term plans, so they’re requiring all new development and redevelopment to include a gray water system, like purple pipes. Is that what this is covering? Is UU covering that where we would develop ordinances that would require the installation of a purple pipe system so that then in the future if there is a possibility we can actually hook up everyone? CHAIR HANSSEN: So you had some questions you want Staff to answer about 112, and 113 as well as far as what more structure to have the implementation program would (inaudible). COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. We need to add something related to the Town actually investigating the infrastructure part. Okay, thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: Mr. Kim has his camera on, so I would go ahead and ask him. I’m sorry, Ms. Armer. JENNIFER ARMER: I wanted to start off by pointing out a couple of policies that are already in the Public Facilities and Services Element. PFS-1.5 says, “Encourage the use of recycled and reclaimed water,” and PFS-1.6 says, “Ensure proper provisions and conditions are in place for the use of recycled water in areas when this LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 51 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 water becomes available.” Since that’s in the Public Facilities section of that element, that may help support that, but WooJae Kim has something more to add. I’ll pass it off to him. CHAIR HANSSEN: Go ahead, Mr. Kim. WOOJAE KIM: Yes, I think there are two sides. There could be a Town-wide network of purple pipe system that could be considered, but from my understanding at least a couple of years back there wasn’t a sufficient amount of recycled or reclaimed water to be distributed, so I might have to check back to see what the availability of that type of water system is. And obviously there is all that piping system that needs to be installed as well, but I think a lot of the policies being discussed here is like at the point source, kind of putting the pipe system as needed to divert… It’s still wastewater, but maybe from the kitchen sink and so forth. There could be systems investigated for that and checking on the feasibility, working with the Building Department, so there are two different sides to approach this issue, but we could investigate it both ways. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that, and I’m going to ask Staff for some clarification on Commissioner Thomas’ question about an implementation program that was about the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wildlife corridors. Most of the implementation programs I remember us putting in, and I don’t have that page open to me right now in my General Plan draft, the purpose of the implementation program was kind of to explore the options, and so I’m going to ask Staff if there is anything preventing us from looking at more than one way to attack the problem in the implementation program? JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. I’ll start. The short answer is no. I think before we would develop any ordinances or standards we would want to do a wildlife movement corridor plan, and then that would have recommendations, which would touch on all of the various options that could be done. I know down in Southern California they just are kicking off a big program, and then there is some Highway 17 stuff that’s been in the works, and some of it may even be completed. So those are all things that would come out of that, and the plan may lead to further ordinances and standards related to private development and/or public projects. Similarly, from a purple pipe reuse, I think Engineer Kim spoke about it. I think a lot of it is kind of site specific where you’re reusing your own water. The most public infrastructure with public pipe and things like that, those would be significant Capital Improvement LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 53 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Program projects, whether or not that’s the Town or whether that is another organization, or the Town in concert with another organization, those would be things that would be considered a little farther down the road. CHAIR HANSSEN: So my interpretation of that is that Implementation Program M is predecessor to what Commissioner Thomas was asking for, and an outcome of that study might be recommendations including having an ordinance. JOEL PAULSON: We could do some simple modification to M and just conduct a wildlife corridor study and then it goes on to say the rest of it, and to continue to support wildlife movement and things like that. I think that’s a simple modification so that it’s more explicit that that study would happen first, and then we would get into the standards and ordinances. CHAIR HANSSEN: Ms. Armer, did you have something else you wanted to say on that? JENNIFER ARMER: I was just going to add the thought that when we do look at the language and it’s talking about conserving these movement corridors, I think if we get into more detailed discussions of that one of the components of conserving them is making sure that they are connected in a way that they’re actually usable for the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wildlife that is using them. I think that is integral to that kind of discussion regardless of whether we add additional language, but a few additional words there, or adding, as Director Paulson suggested, a suggestion that a wildlife corridor study might be the first step in that. I think any of those could work just fine. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. I’m going to go back to Commissioner Thomas, since she had asked the question, and see where you’re at, and then Commissioner Janoff, Commissioner Clark, and Vice Chair Barnett. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you for clarifying all of my questions, especially about the Implementation Program M, because how I was interpreting it was more restricted, so I’m glad that Staff and the Town would be interpreting it as like including possible buildings and infrastructure, etc. So I do think that that means that 113 is covered. I also do strongly support 116, as everyone has discussed. I also would just want to say that I support 107 and 108, unless there’s anything that the Town Engineer actually has to say about 108, but I think that including ground water is good, because ground water is an important resource in our community, in 107. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 In 108, I know Director Paulson knows this, because I have been asking him. I’m trying to redo my driveway and I originally wanted to do gravel, because it is a permeable surface and allows for recharging, as opposed to concrete, and it’s not allowed in Town, so I’m not doing gravel, but I was just wondering if this could cause some conflict with our current ordinances related to surfaces that we can use for things like driveways? CHAIR HANSSEN: I think that’s a good question to ask Staff, so if you could comment on that one, and then we’ll go onto the other Commissioners. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you. As Commissioner Thomas mentioned, that’s correct, we don’t allow folks to just have gravel driveways. It becomes a maintenance issue as people track that stuff into the public right-of-way. There are other alternatives. People in the past have used grasscrete. There are the Hollywood ribbon strips that you see in some places where you have a smaller impervious surface, and then you have some other areas where that can infiltrate. The challenge is really in the installation. A lot of folks use impervious pavers, but unfortunately they compact the subsurface so much they really might as well be concrete, so a lot of that is really the installation aspect. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 56 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But ultimately, if there are conflicts, the General Plan is going to require a lot of modifications to the Zoning Code and potentially other policy and standard documents, and so those will be things that we can revisit moving forward. There may be newer techniques that might allow for some other impervious surface. We would just need to investigate that further following, so I wouldn’t be too concerned about putting us in a position where we’re going to have a conflict with the Zoning Code. We’re going to have to evaluate a number of things and that can just be added to the list. CHAIR HANSSEN: That sounds good. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I’m prepared to make a motion based on the discussion so far, but will defer if Commissioner Clark and Vice Chair Barnett have other clarifying comments. CHAIR HANSSEN: Why don’t I ask them to add any more comments they have, and then I’ll go back to you for a motion? Vice Chair Barnett, and then Commissioner Clark. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I certainly support 116, but my only concern is what does it mean that we’ll have an educational program for implementation? And without overburdening the matter I thought we might consider some LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 language to trap what we really mean by that, and I could suggest something like periodic speakers, classes, and materials. Otherwise, I’m not sure what we’re committing ourselves to. CHAIR HANSSEN: I think that’s certainly a reasonable suggestion. I’m going to make a comment on the plant-based eating thing before I go on to the other Commissioners. I certainly think it’s a great idea to add this implementation program, but I’m going to go back to the comment that I made to the advocates that brought this up, which is that we have more than a hundred implementation programs in the General Plan and we don’t have a process, and the GPAC actually decided not to have a process, because we felt that this is really the domain of the Town Council in terms of allocating resources towards programs in the General Plan, and so it doesn’t mean it’s necessarily going to happen is what I’m going to say, but I have no problem at all putting that in there. I just wanted to make sure that everybody understood that it’s going to become one of well over a hundred implementation programs, and then they’ll have to get prioritized to get it done, and if it helps to make it clear about what it might be LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when it happens, then I’m fine with adding what the Vice Chair recommended. I’ll go to Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. A couple of things. First just back on Implementation Program M, I think I would like to add just some sort of phrase about also connecting fragmented habitats, because that is different from preserving the ones that exist. I minored in environmental science, so I studied that to some degree and I think that would be worth including, just to clarify that. Then I am really sorry that I didn’t remember to bring this up before, but in the document I shared with you all with some of my recommended changes I had a couple for this section, and they were on 8.17 and they’re related to clarifying the accuracy of the history with colonization and the Ohlone and everything, and then also just more including like them in the process of this. So I don't know if you want to pull up the wording or if you had a chance to look at the changes or anything, but I realized I should bring that up. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for reminding us of that. Rather than having people have to dig out that, could LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you maybe read what your proposed changes were to us from the comments that you submitted in writing? I apologize for making you do that, only that I was like having six people go dig through it when… I have a lot of paper here. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yeah, I have a horrifying amount of paper in front of me, so that’s very understandable. So for ENV-13.8, Increase Historical and Cultural Awareness, it says, “Support a community sense of stewardship for historic and cultural resources both through supporting talks, tours, and other programs that increase awareness and promote Los Gatos as a destination with historic cultural resources,” and I want to add on, “and through including Ohlone people in the conversation and planning,” because I feel like if we’re going to talk about our cultural resources, we should be sure to include the origins of that culture. Then there is A-17, 8.8, Tribal Cultural Resources, and says, “Before outside contact, Ohlone lived in base camps,” but I think it should say, “Before colonization.” Then further down it says, “The Ohlone group were brought into the mission system,” and I think it should say, “forced into the mission system.” I just felt like a lot of the language was too gentle around what LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 60 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 actually happened. Then later in the paragraph it says, “The Ohlone population dwindled,” and I think it should say it was “decimated.” And then it says, “In 1973, the population of people with Ohlone descent was estimated at fewer than 300,” and I wanted to add, “after what is widely cited as a genocide.” Then the last sentence says, “The descendants of the Ohlone united in 1971 and have since arranged political and cultural organizations to revitalize aspects of their culture,” and I wanted to alter that to say, “and cultural organizations to revitalize, maintain, and pass on their culture.” A lot of these changes came from a meeting that I recently had with the Chairwoman of the Tamien Nation, and so I do want to just clarify that that was largely what led me to these changes and that…yeah, pretty much that I had that conversation. CHAIR HANSSEN: Before I go to Commissioner Thomas, let me ask Commissioner Janoff, did you have any comments on what Commissioner Clark just brought up, or was this related to your motion? Then I would know whether to ask Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: My only comment with regard to Commissioner Clark’s recommendations is that I would agree, and they’re coming from a place of historical truth LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 61 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and specific knowledge. I think the more we can create an accurate document, the better it will stand. We’ve been really striving for racial justice, and if that goes forward then it also goes back in history, so that I think that those are good adds, and presuming that would be approved by the Commission, I would only recommend that the changes between Planning Commission’s recommendation to Town Council and Town Council actually having something, that those individuals that Commissioner Clark mentioned as having some expertise would be consulted and just give a stamp of approval on the changes that are recommended. But I wouldn’t shy away from a distasteful history; that’s ours to own. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, thank you for that. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I agree with all those changes, and thank you, Commissioner Clark, for bringing them up, because I do think that when I read them I feel like the same, and so I do agree with Commissioner Janoff that we should own them. So I guess Commissioner Janoff was going to make a motion. CHAIR HANSSEN: I’ll go back to Commissioner Janoff. Would you like to make a motion on 106 through 116 as well as Commissioner Clark’s suggested additions to page LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8-17? I think they were all on page 8-17, or maybe 8-16 as well. Hold on, Commissioner Thomas had wanted to say one more thing. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I’m so sorry, I was going to say that based on Vice Chair Barnett’s comments, I do think that the implementation program for the plant-based education, the beginning should be changed to “Develop and implement a plan to educate and support,” instead of just, “Implement programs to educate,” because I think that that encompasses like we need to do a little research. What’s going to be effective? What are we capable of doing? And then implement it. So that was just going to be my suggestion with regard to that. It might actually happen, I don't know. CHAIR HANSSEN: Before you make your motion, Commissioner Janoff, I also wanted to make one comment about 116 in addition to what I already said, which is I like Vice Chair Barnett’s suggestion about giving examples of what kind of programs. I also wondered if, when I looked at some of the other implementation programs we had, the latter part of the sentence about the benefits and listing what all the benefits are, I’m not sure if the goal is to implement a program that listing what all the benefits are LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 63 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in the implementation program itself is going to be that helpful to creating it. I think it would be more helpful to delineate what kinds of things might go into a plant-based education program, and then clearly in the education program itself all those benefits are going to be articulated versus saying it all in that sentence, but that was just me. Let’s see, Commissioner Thomas, you wanted to respond, and then Commissioner Clark had something to say, and then we’ll go back to Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I agree that it is very lengthy and I think that we can just simplify it by changing it to say, “The environmental, social, and economic benefits of shifting to a plant-based diet.” Those are like the three underlying components of sustainability, and so I think that that incorporates the message and the importance, but it simplifies things a little bit and is more direct, so again, “environmental, economic, and social benefits.” CHAIR HANSSEN: I like that, and then I’m assuming you agree also with what Vice Chair Barnett suggested, which is examples which would include blah, blah, blah. It wouldn’t be comprehensive, but it would give some structure to what might happen. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 64 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: That is more helpful than defining the benefits in here. CHAIR HANSSEN: Very good. Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. Yes, for 116 I completely agree with saying, “environmental, social, and economic benefits.” In the same way maybe it even allows for more benefits to be included, and I just wanted to remind everyone, you might recall from public comment at our last meeting the folks advocating for the plant-based diet told us that they have a really big document that is a very comprehensive example of what this could look like, and so it might be just good to direct Staff or Council to connect with them between this to see what examples they might want to include, but given that they were the ones advocating for this and creating all of that, I would trust their judgment for what examples they might want to include in the implementation program. CHAIR HANSSEN: In fact, in the comments for this meeting there was quite extensive examples of things that they wanted to include, so yes, I think that makes a lot of sense. Okay, Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: The motion is to incorporate the changes for number 106, 107, 108, 110, and LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 65 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 116, with the caveat that we have a tremendous amount of information coming from the Plant-Based Advocates that Staff should use to modify any policies or implementation programs that would identify, and yes, to include the develop and implement language that Vice Chair Barnett is recommending. One thing I’d like to also acknowledge with this, and part of the comments that Commissioner Thomas made regarding the three legs that the plant-based diet stands on, we’ll be talking later about adding to the greenhouse gas emissions problem, and this is advocating for a plant- based diet to help ameliorate the greenhouse gas. It’s a good balance if we have those things that create more and those that lessen it. I think it’s a really smart thing for us to include this and to emphasize to Council it may be that there are a hundred or more implementation programs, but this one happens to rise pretty high up for me and I think the depth of information that the Plant-Based Advocates have provided us, particularly in the most recent Staff Report, are very interesting and compelling, so I would definitely want to do that. The motion also includes the changes that Commissioner Clark has recommended, and as we said before, to seek guidance or validation from the experts who could LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 66 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 create the language that would really resonate for the Town and for tribal representatives. CHAIR HANSSEN: Just a clarifying question on your motion as far a Implementation Program M, the additional clarification that was suggested by Commissioner Clark and as well as I think Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I think that’s fine that the implementation program as written does call out linkages, so that the notion of that is in there, but if it’s the case that conserve doesn’t really cover everything, then examining linkages or recreating linkages, clarifying that language does make sense. It makes it more complete. CHAIR HANSSEN: So that is Commissioner Janoff’s motion, and is there a second? Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: I second, and I’d like to echo that consulting the Ohlone is a great thing to add, and then also emphasis on 116 as priority when they’re actually sorting out the implementation programs. CHAIR HANSSEN: When we first had the Sustainability Plan that was introduced in 2012 there was a quest to identify low hanging fruit, so I think what I’m hearing is this would a low hanging fruit to help reduce LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 greenhouse gases, so we would hope that it would be sooner rather than later. All right, so then we have a motion and a second, so I will start with Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. So that was a lot of suggestions for environmental sustainability and a very robust discussion. Let’s go ahead and tackle the Hazards and Safety Element, because there are only three suggested changes, and then I’m going to suggest that we take a ten-minute break before we tackle Land Use. Before I go into Hazards and Safety, I did want to ask a clarifying question of Staff. We kind of talked about this a week or two ago, but on the additional actions, suggestions, and public comments, since some of LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 those are really what I would perceive more as Town Council decisions, I wasn’t going to cover them, but I’m looking for Staff’s recommendation. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. I think if Commissioners have specific comments on any of those, I believe, four topics, I think it’s appropriate to put that in the record so the Council has the information as they’re reviewing these items. CHAIR HANSSEN: That sounds like a good way to handle it, so we will at least ask if you want to comment on any of the items that are suggested in 120 through 123? Let’s go to the Hazards and Safety Element. There are only three suggested comments, of which 118 is not recommended by Staff, because it’s covered in other Town policies and we don’t want to be having things be inconsistent in the General Plan versus other policies. So how do Commissioners feel about 117 and 119? Vice Chair Janoff, and then Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: My thinking around 117 is that we’ve had County Fire input on our language. If they feel it’s important to include emphasis on Wildland Urban Interface, this is really outside of my area of expertise, except I happen to live in a WUI environment, so it’s not LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so far out of my expertise, but whether we need this kind of detail isn’t clear to me and I defer to County Fire. Number 118 is not recommended. Then 119 looks like a technical clarification, and I would say that’s probably a good clarification to include. CHAIR HANSSEN: Can I ask Staff a clarifying question? Do we know where comment 117 came from? It did not come from CAL FIRE per se. It sounds like it came from a resident or another comment based on stuff they had read from CAL FIRE, is that correct? JENNIFER ARMER: Unfortunately, I don’t remember exactly where that one did come from, but the recommended changes from CAL FIRE were those changes at the beginning of this exhibit, so this was not part of what was recommended as part of their review. Also, we did have Santa Clara County Fire taking a look at the relevant sections of this document, so it would have been from a public comment that we received, but I don’t have it front of me where exactly that one came from. It looks like Director Paulson may be looking to see what he can find, but he’s shaking his head, so I don’t think we’ve got a direct link to whom that came from. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: It also doesn’t read like a comment that would have come from CAL FIRE. I don’t think I can explain why that is, but just looking at their other comments, it looked like others wrote it. Let’s see, Commissioner Clark and then Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. So for 117, I didn’t really when reading it know how important that was or how accurate, and so I feel like I would defer to the experts. So I think if we don’t know where it came from, it might be worth just saying like, “Subject to the approval of CAL FIRE,” or if the Fire Department already read over it and hadn’t seen any problems with the General Plan, maybe we do just leave it out. Number 118, obviously no. Then for 119, reading the Section 9.4 I wasn’t sure exactly where this would go or anything, but I agree with what Commissioner Janoff said, that this seems like a technical clarification, and so I would be in favor of that one. CHAIR HANSSEN: That sounds good. Ms. Armer had her hand up, so before I go to Commissioner Thomas, Ms. Armer. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 71 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. I was able to locate where that comment came from. It was a comment made in a Midpeninsula Regional Open Space letter. If you’re looking at your packet from the meeting of the 13th, it is on page 319 of that packet, and it is revised language that they were recommending. CHAIR HANSSEN: So Midpen Open Space in my mind would be a reasonably credible source, so there are a couple of ways that we could go with this from my point of view and those would be as suggested. Maybe run it past CAL FIRE and see if they think that was a good add. I don't know how much trouble that would be. Or we could just accept it. Or we could just say that there is enough in there and it wouldn’t change things and the policies that much. So those are the three options I see. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: This is really two comments in mind. The first one I feel less strongly about including because I did not actually look up if the statistic is true, although we know that fires in the WUI are more of a hazard for humans, but the second part of the comment is like a totally separate issue and I do think that requires clarification. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 72 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 It says that, “High fire hazard severity zone does not describe the risk of a fire start, but rather describes the potential impacts to natural ecosystems known as fire severity.” So like the fire ignition triangle is what determines if the fire is going to start, and then CAL FIRE has the fire hazard severity zones that are based on the severity, which is how damaging it is based on the intensity, so I do think that we should make sure that that is all clarified in the description. I noticed with some of the other comments, I don't know if CAL FIRE and Santa Clara Valley Water and all these other groups that look at our document specifically look at a lot of our descriptions more of the introduction pieces, or if they just look more specifically at the policies and implementation programs, so I’m just saying that that’s maybe why 117 might have been missed, but I’m not entirely sure. So I think that there’s two parts of this and I don’t really have opinions on the first part, but the second part should be clarified. CHAIR HANSSEN: Clarified as to the validity? COMMISSIONER THOMAS: The second part, it just says, “It’s also important to note that a high fire hazard severity zone does not describe the risk of a fire start,” LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 73 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and then it says that somewhere in the introduction, which is not true. The fire severity zone maps indicate the severity of the fire, like how damaging it’s going to be, not the likelihood of a fire starting. There is some discrepancy in the wordings and someone needs to comb through it and make sure that that gets clarified. CHAIR HANSSEN: Got it. All right, Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I don’t see any other hands raised, and so my sense of this Hazard and Safety Element is that we’re all in agreement that 118 should not be recommended, 119 should be recommended, and perhaps 117 should be recommended subject to review and appropriate modification by CAL FIRE, and if my Commission members agree with that, I’d be happy to make a motion in that respect. CHAIR HANSSEN: I think that sounds fine, and that sounds like a motion, so I’ll take that as a motion and see if there’s a second. Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I’ll second the motion. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. Any other discussion before we vote? I’ll go with Commissioner Thomas. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 74 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. Okay, that covers the Hazards and Safety Element, and I’m going to take a stab at talking about 122 through 123, hoping that it’s not going to be a super long discussion, but if it does turn out that way, then we might have to take a break. There were additional suggestions, and you’ve all seen them in the public comments, and they’re more generically about the timing of the General Plan, the first one being a vote or poll of residents on the proposed changes in the General Plan; the second one being requesting an exception to the RHNA requirement, which comment from Staff was the deadline has passed; and the third comment updating the Housing Element within the same timeline as General Plan use and Community Design Element, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 75 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 which would mean delaying the approval of this document until the Housing Element was complete; and the fourth one is conducing a fiscal analysis relative to the fiscal impacts of the full build-out of the 2040 General Plan, in which the Town Council actually voted on this at their April 5th meeting and decided against it. So are there any comments that Commissioners would like to make on these in terms of direction that we’d like to give to Town Council? I think Commissioner Raspe was first, and then Commissioner Thomas, and then Vice Chair Barnett. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thanks, Chair. Only with respect to one, that’s 122, the Housing Element and the timing of it with respect to the General Plan generally. Currently the posture that we find ourselves in is we are moving forward with the General Plan before our Housing Element is complete, and I know several commentators raised that as an issue and I thought maybe it might be useful if we could have Staff discuss that a little bit, maybe how common is that in this process? Is it something that we see as part of the General Plan process? Is this an anomaly, and how is it impacting the rest of our housing discussion? Maybe some discussion of that would help ally some of those concerns. Thank you, Chair. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 76 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: I think that’s a great way to go at it, and I’ve already heard Staff’s comments on this, but I think it’s beneficial for the public to hear as well from Staff. JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you, Commissioner Raspe, I think that’s a great opportunity for us to share a little bit of context with these questions. I’m going to start by pointing out that a lot of these comments are concerned about one particular component of one of the elements of the General Plan. A lot of these are focused really on the potential development based on the housing densities and other development regulations that are included in the Land Use Element. As we’ve seen already in the multiple hours of discussion that the Planning Commission has already had going through the General Plan, there are a lot of elements to this document, a lot of topics covered, and so we would strongly recommend that the General Plan continue to move forward with a recommendation from the Planning Commission with modifications as have been discussed so that it can move forward and complete its process. I would say that if those concerns about the housing numbers and moving forward with those changes before the Housing Element process is complete, then there LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 77 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 are ways to reduce those, which will be part of our next discussion, to modify those and pull them back, but it doesn’t necessarily need to hold back the rest of the process. The next thing that I would share is that the General Plan was started, when we started this process four years ago, with the specific idea that it would actually be fully completed prior to even starting the Housing Element. One of the goals was to make sure that we had regulations in place, and potentially even the required changes to the Zoning Code, before we started on the Housing Element update so that the rules would be in place that the Housing Element could clearly show that it would be possible to allow the construction of housing as required by our RHNA allocation. Because of numerous delays for different reasons, the COVID pandemic not the least of those, we’re still working through that process, but we still really do want to strongly encourage that this process continue to move forward. Then the last point that I will add, and then I would expect that Director Paulson might have some additional points, is that our Housing Element update is relying on the fact that the environmental impact review LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 78 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 for the General Plan gets completed and that the EIR gets certified, because if we do not have that environmental review completed, then the Housing Element actually has the extra burden of doing its own environmental review. So I will pass that off to Director Paulson in case he has any other points he’d like to add to clarify or add context. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Ms. Armer. I think you covered all of the points well. Typically we would have a General Plan in place, as Ms. Armer mentioned, and then we would be using that for the Housing Element and relying on the General Plan that’s adopted. A lot of the jurisdictions in the Bay Area either have existing General Plans or they were not going through that process, and so what ends up happening in that case is that most of them, as Ms. Armer mentioned, need to do environmental review, and then they end up with a bunch of implementation programs that say okay, we all got far more numbers than we had expected and then we may be able to accommodate by our General Plan, and so then they end up with implementation programs to modify the General Plan. So from a planning perspective and Staff’s perspective, having the base of the General Plan that can then inform the Housing Element is appropriate. Ultimately, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 79 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I think the Planning Commission can continue to do their work and forward a recommendation, and then ultimately the Town Council will have those same conversations, and should they choose to go down a different path, then we’ll look for other options moving forward from that standpoint. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Ms. Armer and Mr. Paulson for your very thorough responses, and also to each of you and all Staff for your amazing efforts on this entire process. CHAIR HANSSEN: I just would add a little bit more since I’m one of the three people from this Commission that sits on the Housing Element Advisory Board, and I was actually on the previous Housing Element Advisory Board as well as the General Plan Update Advisory Committee back 2008 to 2010, and one thing that I heard from Staff and that I didn’t hear mentioned tonight, but I know they know this and they’ve talked about it many times, is that it is not expected or common or even typical that you would have the General Plan of any jurisdiction on the same timeline as the Housing Element, because the Housing Element is a fixed thing. It’s always an eight-year timeline, and it’s not that every jurisdiction in California has the same eight-year timeline; they do not. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 80 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 When we did the previous update of the General Plan, it was from 2010 to 2020, and then we did the Housing Element and we completed that and it’s a 2015 to 2023 timeframe, so it is already a precedent for our town to do it this way. As a member of the Housing Element Advisory Board, I would say that everything that I’ve heard in the meetings that we’ve had with affordable housing developers and whatnot, it’s not that we couldn’t proceed forward without updating the General Plan, but it would be like doing so with our arm tied behind our back, especially with the expectation from HCD that we have all these (inaudible) in place to make sure that we’re successful in making this housing happen, so if we didn’t have the densities that we asked for it would be problematic. We even had a proposal in the last year at the CDAC where they were looking at the possible draft densities in the General Plan and they couldn’t even get any very good discussion going because the General Plan wasn’t approved, and it was for a 41-unit housing complex. So for all those reasons, I totally support everything that Staff said. And Ms. Armer has more to say. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 81 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JENNIFER ARMER: I just had one additional thought that I did want to share in terms of the processes we’re going through and these discussions about housing density and housing numbers and the difficulty of having the different types of conversations and how they’re interrelated. One of the benefits, I think, to having a General Plan update that’s occurring just prior to a Housing Element update is that we did at the beginning of the process have a sense that the RHNA allocation that the Housing Element update would be required to meet would be approximately 2,000 units. We didn’t know the exact number, but we had that sense. And so when we were looking at the General Plan town-wide, policy-wide, topic-wide, we were able to keep that in mind, and so rather than going through the process to try and show that the Town had capacity for 2,000 units, in this case 1,993 plus a buffer, just looking at the Housing Element itself we were able to have those discussions with the GPAC looking town-wide, looking strategically on multiple topics in the hope that this whole document would be set up with Vision and Guiding Principles and policies throughout that would support that potential future development in a way that really works for LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 82 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the Town, and the vision for the Town, for the next 20 years, rather than just the Housing Element topic and the eight year timeline. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. Let’s see, Vice Chair Barnett, and then Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Janoff. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you, Chair. Item 123, I’m going to echo what the Chair said that in the Council meeting there was an understanding that the preliminary fiscal report showed that there was going to be negative fiscal consequences of the General Plan, and it seems to be although the Community Alliance has done tremendous work in detailing further work that could be done, the likely bottom line is that the fiscal impact would just be more negative, so I’m of a mind not to conduct a further fiscal impact analysis. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that comment. We haven’t discussed the EIR either, but there were several letters from the Alliance regarding why the EIR wasn’t studied to the full possible build-out of every maximum density on every single property in the Town, which would be something in the order of, I believe, 70,000 units. We’ll talk about that more with the EIR, but that isn’t the way that any jurisdiction would do their EIRs. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 83 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 They would be more on a reasonable thing, because it isn’t reasonable to think that anyone would build out every single property in town, so that is part of where there is just a difference of opinion about the way to go about this. The Council has already weighed in on this, so all we would be doing is making a recommendation to Council anyway for something they’ve already just visited. Let’s see, Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I would like to echo what all other Commissioners have mentioned so far, and as a member of the Housing Element Advisory Board, it’s been very difficult for us to actually get started on the process without having an updated General Plan, so I think that it is really important for everyone in Town to understand that the Housing Element cycle is on a totally different cycle in number of years, an eight year cycle versus the General Plan is a 20-year document. I think that that is really important for everyone to understand and that what Ms. Armer said about the guess of what our RHNA allocation number was going to be really helped inform the General Plan in a way. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 84 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But now as a member of the Housing Element Advisory Board we really need the General Plan to be finalized so we can get to work, and there are serious consequences from the state if we don’t get our Housing Element done and certified and turned in, so I don’t want us to be responsible for that. So that being said, I do not support any of these suggested actions because of those reasons. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you, Commissioner Thomas. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you. I agree with everything that’s been said by my fellow commissioners, but I would like to add that one of the provisions of the Draft General Plan is that it be reviewed on a five-year basis, so that means if we go forward in the execution of the Housing Element and we need to make any adjustments to the General Plan, there are provisions for that. So even though the General Plan some may think is casting too far into the future without knowing what that future might look like, these five-year incremental reviews help make sure that we’re staying in synch with what is expected of the Town, how we need to plan, and whether any changes to the General Plan need to be made in order to accommodate housing or any other consideration that we may have. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 85 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I’d also like to say the way that I think about the General Plan and the Housing Element is that the General Plan provides a framework within which all of the elements hang and inform how the Town of Los Gatos does business. The Housing Element doesn’t stand on its own. The Housing Element can’t go forward if we don’t have the zoning and the heights and the densities that we are providing in the General Plan. It might have been in the past that that was possible because the changes that we might have considered under how much housing we’re going to build were much smaller numbers, but we’re talking about the numbers that we have now, the 1,993 from RHNA plus buffer. That’s a big number and we can’t get there with 2020 plan zone, height, and density ordinances; we just can’t do it. So we need to have something in place in order for us to reasonably recommend a Housing Element that has a chance of being certified. So I would also say that I’m not in favor of these four actions from the public for all the other reasons that Commissioners have voiced. Thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you, Commissioner Janoff. I just wanted to make one little correction to what you said, and maybe I misheard you, but we did approve at our last LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 86 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 meeting as an add to the implementation programs to have a five-year review of the Land Use Element, not the entire General Plan, and so maybe I misheard you. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: (Inaudible) apply to the Housing Element. CHAIR HANSSEN: Yeah, yeah, and my understanding of that from Staff and the discussion that we had was that the whole reason for that was to help mitigate the risk of if it turned out in 2031 when we have our next Housing Element that the number is much lower, then we can make adjustments at that point in time, so that will kind of bring us more in line in terms of those two discussions without having to dramatically alter the timeline of the two documents. Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. I agree. I am not in favor of any those four, and I was wondering if this is a good place to include anything that goes back to one of the other elements, so for example, Vice Chair Barnett’s edits to the equity and equality definitions? CHAIR HANSSEN: Actually, that’s a good point. I had that on my list and I was going to bring it up at the beginning. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 87 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Just for everyone’s benefit, since we’re straddling over two meetings so far, Commissioner Clark suggested modifying the definitions of equality and equity, and then there was a discussion about that at the community meeting that was a few weeks ago, and Vice Chair Barnett wanted some more clarification on equality, not equity, right? COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yeah. CHAIR HANSSEN: So I read the comments. I wanted to just see where the Commissioners came out on that, because I’m going to ask Staff, I think we need to vote on it if we’re going to change it, because we had decided in the last meeting and then the comment came in from Vice Chair Barnett. So I’ll start with that. Commissioner Clark, you still have your hand up. Is that because you had already brought it up and you forgot to take it down, or you wanted to make a comment on the issue? COMMISSIONER CLARK: No, I’d like to make a comment. I thought that he was spot on. I think that’s great to add a reference to equivalent status and rights. I think that that will make it a lot more well rounded. Something else I wanted to bring up is actually a broader change that I had suggested in the document, but it LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 88 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was 8-17 where we made those changes regarding the historical origins of the land, and something that I noticed is the Ohlone were pretty much only talked about in the past tense, and so I want to add a third paragraph that talks about today the Ohlone are doing this and doing that, because otherwise I think that it made it sound kind of like they aren’t currently doing stuff. Even a lot of the things that were discussed as past tense are things that I learned that they’re still doing, like collecting mussels and stuff like that. CHAIR HANSSEN: So you’re talking about adding a more descriptive statement about where the Ohlone currently stand at the time of the writing of the General Plan. COMMISSIONER CLARK: So it would be a third paragraph under 8.8, Tribal Cultural Resources, and talking about what they are doing today. CHAIR HANSSEN: Oh, perfect. So there are two things that are on the table. One is whether or not to accept Vice Chair Barnett’s revision to the definition of equality, and also Commissioner Clark’s suggestion to add the section to 8-17. Any comments on that, or a motion? Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: The motion would be yes and yes to changes suggested. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 89 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Sounds good, and do we have a second? Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Second. CHAIR HANSSEN: Good. All right, I will go with the roll call vote, and Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. So I think we’ve covered everything except for the Land Use and Community Design Elements, and there is of course the EIR as well. It’s almost 9:20. Why don’t we take a break till 9:30, and then we can go for an hour-and-a-half and see where we are. I think if we go past 11:00 o’clock we have to vote to continue, and then we would have to vote again to go past 11:30, so we can see how far we get, but I do suggest in the interest of trying to get this completed, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 90 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 even if we have to go to another meeting, let’s try to get as far as we can by 11:00. Does that sound good? Okay, so let’s take a break till 9:30 and we’ll be back. (INTERMISSION) CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, everyone is back. Thank you for that. I hope you enjoyed your break. We will go ahead and start on the Land Use Element. What I’d like to do with the Land Use Element, unlike what we did with the other elements, because of the high level of controversy we’ve had over the land use build-out numbers I think that it’s really important that we discuss all of the comments and have the Commission weigh in on them, but I want to defer comment number 20, which is modifying the number of new housing units, until we’re done discussing the things that will kind of go around that, which is all the other comments. I’d like to take each comment one at a time, and it’s actually in total numbers not even as much as we had on the Environmental Sustainability Element, but I suspect that there might be more to discuss on them. When we do get to the point where we’re talking about the numbers, we’ve gotten all kinds of feedback from the community, and also Vice Chair Barnett had submitted his suggestions, and Staff has in their Staff Report on LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 91 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 page 6 some possible recommendations that came from Council if we were to want to modify the numbers. With that in mind, I’d like to just start out with number 21, and I think it’s a pretty easy one. “Modify the land use designation of the property at 15810 Los Gatos Boulevard from Low-Density Residential to Mixed-Use Commercial to be more in line with the existing use,” and Staff is recommending it. We don’t have to vote on each one at the moment. What we’ll do is we’ll go to the end on the ones that we think are worthy. So generally speaking, we don’t need to discuss that. That makes a lot of sense. Number 22, “Building a high-rise condo on the corner of Los Gatos Boulevard and Los Gatos Almaden.” Construction is not within the purview of the General Plan, per Staff, but increased height limits in Mixed-Use Commercial and land use designations could be considered. I’m going to ask Staff to comment on that one, which is that we did propose in the existing Draft 2040 General Plan to increase the height as well as the densities on Los Gatos Boulevard. Do we think the intent was to go further than that? Would that prevent us from building a high-rise condo complex? I was hoping Staff could comment on that. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 92 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you, Chair. This comment is suggesting construction of a high-rise, which isn’t what the General Plan is doing, but as noted by Staff it is the kind of thing that if consideration of modified height limits was something that the Planning Commission wanted to consider, that’s more where this document would lead. In terms of that location, the changes to the designation on the Boulevard in terms of height limit are 45’. That’s been raised to 45’ to match the existing limits in downtown. Generally I would say that in most places it’s not considered high enough for a high-rise, but the Community Development Director may have something to add. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, just a couple things. Ms. Armer touched on the changes. The height is proposed to increase from 35’ to 45’, and the maximum density is proposed to increase from 20 dwelling units per acre to 40 dwelling units per acre. I believe the site that this commenter is referencing is what we refer to as the former CVS application site. We actually have an application in for a one-story commercial building there, and we’re processing that under the current General Plan, so that site probably isn’t going to be viable. I would say that if you go down to comment 30, it gets to a similar comment of LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 93 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 increase over the 45’, so maybe it’s best to have the conversation when we get there. CHAIR HANSSEN: I had the same thought as we were discussing it that this is more about construction, and there was already another comment in number 30, so we can just skip 22 and go on to that, because we know that the issues surrounding that are there. I will also note for everyone that’s not on the Housing Element Advisory Board, we just started going through the site inventory and a very large number of the potential sites for housing that are on the table right now for the Housing Element are on Los Gatos Boulevard, but one of them is not, this particular site, because CVS owns the property and they’ve already submitted an application for something that isn’t related to housing. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you. I wanted to add that in the discussions with the Housing Element Advisory Board one of the things that I think we’ll be talking about is the incentives to builders for building higher density housing units, so my advice, whether we get to it now or when I get to number 30 is that we don’t increase the maximum heights that we have currently in the General Plan LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 94 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in the Land Use Element, but we reserve the right to have incentives in the Housing Element if that’s possible. CHAIR HANSSEN: I think that’s great, and we’ll get to that when we get to the next one, but I think it’s a good time to bring that up since someone else brought that up in the context of this comment. Number 23 is, “Including opportunity areas in the General Plan as outlined in the land use alternatives report,” and Staff said not recommended to previous GPAC direction, and even though I was the chair of the GPAC I don’t remember back in our 35 meetings when we discussed that or why we said that, but I suspect it’s because we did the General Plan after the Land Use Alternatives Report. JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you, Chair. I can provide a little clarification on that. As the GPAC discussed the Land Use Alternatives Report and made a recommendation to the Planning Commission, who then made a recommendation to Town Council, that really was a framework that that was going to be implemented in the Land Use Element and other elements of the General Plan. So in the discussion of that land use alternative, one of the concerns that came up is how does that actually get implemented? And a concern about if you LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 95 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have something called an opportunity area that covers properties that are in different zones or different land use designations, and then there are some properties that are outside those opportunity areas, and so you have some portions of, for example, a Low-Density or Medium-Density Residential designated property, some that are within the opportunity areas, others aren’t, and it gets very complex and confusing as to which are in and which are out and you’ve got different rules even within the same designation. So as Staff worked with the consultants to look at how to implement the framework that was approved by Town Council one of the things that was discovered through that was that most of those opportunity areas, the areas that had high potential for redevelopment and a lot of potential for doing it in a way that supported of the community, were our Commercial and High-Density Residential areas, and so by shifting those changes in maximum allowed density just to the designations themselves rather than having a separate overlay zone or district, you simplified how the rules would work, clarified them, but really had very much the same effect. So then the areas that were noted in that framework as opportunity areas then got concentrated LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 96 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 attention in the Community Design Element of the General Plan saying these are the areas where we think there is opportunity for redevelopment, and so it’s really important to have some specific vision for each of these areas for what they look like now and what they could look like in the future, that that development is done consistent with the General Plan’s Vision and Guiding Principles. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. I did understand that and I hope it made sense to everyone. If you look at the proposed modifications to the densities and the heights in the Land Use section of the draft of the General Plan, they’re not specific to what geographic area of Town they’re in, it’s more we have like Low-Density Residential, we have Community Commercial, blah, blah, blah, we have these thing. And we haven’t discussed the Community Design Element yet, but when we created the Community Place Districts they’re intended to be a vision for what the neighborhood would look like, but when we went through the General Plan discussion no one wanted to create specific zoning for those areas. Instead we wanted to say it was going to be either Mixed-Use Commercial or Community Commercial or something like that, but we weren’t going to have different zones for that, so that was kind of my LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 97 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 interpretation of what you said. You said it better than I did, but I think that there was really no reason to change all the things that we did in the General Plan after all the time we spent on it, and I think we have a framework that is going to be just fine for moving forward. I’m not sure who suggested that. Was that from the public? JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, that was in a number of different public comments that were received suggesting going back to that as approved by Town Council, though I will point out that the implementation of that framework in the form of the Land Use Element and Community Design Element, we did go for a kind of check back with the Town Council in November of that same year for them to take a look at how that was going to be implemented. CHAIR HANSSEN: But since this went to Town Council multiple times and the GPAC had already sent direction, there doesn’t seem to be a lot of benefit to revisiting it. JENNIFER ARMER: Staff does not recommend it. CHAIR HANSSEN: And that’s why you didn’t recommend it. I’m going to go on to number 24, which we probably need to discuss more when we talk about the numbers, but I’ll put it out there anyway. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A lot of people are very worried about increasing densities in Low-Density Residential, and so the proposed General Plan does have us raising the densities as high as 12 dwelling units per acre, and a big part of that is to facilitate missing middle housing. That’s intertwined with the things that we have no control over, which are ADUs, which are ministerial permits and everyone anywhere is allowed to build a Junior ADU as well as a detached ADU, and that’s state law. Then we also have SB 9, which is just new this year and we don’t know the full impact of that, so a lot of people have advocated to not increase densities in Low- Density Residential, because they’re afraid there’s going to be big, huge high-rises in their neighborhood, and so I thought it was worth having the discussion now even before we start talking about numbers to see what Commissioners thought about that, because the approach that the General Plan Advisory Committee took in recommending the whole framework, and I think it was a direct quote from then Mayor Jensen, which is basically no area should not have to help support the growth that’s expected of the Town, and it could be in varying degrees, but that was the direction that was taken. So I open that up for comments. Commissioner Thomas. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 99 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I think that the changes to the densities were very well thought out and discussed and analyzed, and I think that the ones that exist in the Draft 2040 General Plan are what we should go with if we have any chance of getting the Housing Element certified and then meeting our RHNA requirements, so that’s how I feel about it. The changes that are proposed to height and density, especially in Low-Density Residential areas I do not think are going to allow for high-rises to be built in areas, but if we don’t get a Housing Element approved, then a lot of things could change and a lot of stuff could get built in places that people don’t want it, so that’s how I viewed this one, and I think that we should go with the densities that are in the 2040 General Plan. Related to SB 9, I think that this kind of connects to number 26. I’m just curious about if establishing a new Low-Medium Density Residential land use category, is that even necessary because of SB 9? Because duplexes are going to be happening anyway, so I feel like it’s kind of related. This is another density question that’s kind of related, so if we felt so (inaudible) 26 (inaudible) might be helpful. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 100 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Let’s talk about both of those at the same time. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: And 25, even honestly. It’s kind of more specific, but they’re all related to density. CHAIR HANSSEN: Number 25, I’ll table that one for the second, but I’m going to make a generalized comment, because I know the origin of the Low-Medium Density Residential. We have Low-Density Residential, we have Medium- Density Residential, so the proposal, as I understand it— and Staff, correct me I got it wrong—is that there are some community members who are afraid of what the impact of Low- Density Residential increase in possible densities would be in their neighborhoods have said if we created a new designation called Low-Medium Density Residential we could basically put the missing middle housing kinds of things in that. My question to Staff when I first heard of it was where would we put this, because every geographical location in Town does have a General Plan zoning designation? The response I heard was then we would have to decide where it would be, so then it would well be your neighborhood is going to be Low-Medium Density Residential even though you have primarily single-family homes now, and LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 101 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 maybe someone else would stay Low-Density Residential. I see that personally as very problematic, if I understood that correctly, but I would like to hear what you all think. I think Commissioner Janoff was first, then Commissioner Raspe, Vice Chair Barnett, Commissioner Clark, and Commissioner Thomas again. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you. The notion that we could create a separate area for duplexes and triplexes doesn’t make sense given SB 9, which allows for lot splits and for duplexes and fourplexes to be created on lots virtually any size, but it’s more likely to be in Low- Density or Medium-Density, because that’s where you’ve got the space to do that kind of development, so I agree that number 26 presents more complications than it seems to add benefit. The rules of the state are going to allow for the Higher-Density and Low-Density anyway, which is why when you look at maintaining the level of Low-Density and if you say let’s go back to the 2020 plan, you could do that, but you’re still likely to see ADUs in this area. The 200 ADUs that we’ve got planned for currently in the RHNA numbers, they’re more than likely going to be in Low-Density. So you LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 102 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could say I’m not going to add density, but the state is going to allow you to do it anyway. I just don’t think it makes sense for us to put our heads in the sand and pretend that we can create isolated neighborhoods where we can prohibit a development when we simply can’t, so my position on both 24 and 26 are, as Commissioner Thomas said, go with the recommended densities that the draft plan advises. CHAIR HANSSEN: Which would mean not creating a new Low-Medium Density Residential, because it basically doesn’t change the issue; it doesn’t accomplish anything. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: It doesn’t accomplish anything. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, got it. Commissioner Raspe, then Vice Chair Barnett, and Commissioner Clark, and then back to Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. Revisiting 24, and it’s only because several commentators raised this comment, maintaining the existing 2020 General Plan densities for Low-Density Residential, given SB 9, and it’s a little bit unfair to Staff, because I’m asking you to project when we’re still in the infancy of this entire discussion, but given SB 9, if we were to theoretically maintain the 2020 densities in those areas, is it likely, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 103 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 unlikely, unfathomable that we would hit our RHNA numbers, or do we just simply not know? JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Commissioner Raspe. The short answer is we don’t know. SB 9 is the big unknown. As it has been mentioned, anyone in a residentially zoned property can go through the SB 9 process and have up to four units. Currently on any residential property you can have up to three units, even if you just do ADUs. Density is not a factor when considering ADUs or SB 9, so we already have consideration in the General Plan and then also in the Housing Element with the eight-year cycle approximately 25 units per year. We don’t have guidance and we don’t have a good track record to rely on like we do for ADUs to tell the state that this is how many SB 9s we think we’re going to get. I think we have three so far, but those aren’t even for units; those are just subdivisions so far. We’ll get more information as the year goes on, so if we do have the ability we’ll probably at least ask that question. We’ll definitely ask that question of HCD, letting them know here’s how many SB 9 projects we have, whether it’s units or subdivisions, and see if there’s any possibility to include those. There have been a number of suggestions and I think ultimately the low-density, if that is maintained as LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it is and Staff says we’re neutral on that, yes, it reduces the number, which is something that a lot of folks want. But ultimately something that also has the impact that we mentioned in the Staff Report is the work that was contemplated in the missing middle, which now some folks say is kind of superseded by the SB 9; that just gets pulled out of the General Plan. Staff is comfortable with it either way. The big push and the big potential unit counts really are more in the commercial areas, so that’s really where we’re kind of interested in doing that. The challenge that was mentioned before is most of those sites are on Los Gatos Boulevard, so then you run into the issue of we’re going to concentrate them all on the Boulevard or the predominant number of them on the Boulevard and that gets to be challenging from a number of aspects, but Staff is neutral. We envisioned that numbers were going to change going through this process, so we’re comfortable either way, and so I think this is a good discussion to hear different perspectives of different Commissioners as you ultimately get to the point where you formulate a recommendation on specific densities. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Director Paulson. That answers my question. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 105 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: And I wanted have this discussion without the numbers on the table, because I think the issue is important to discuss. I do want to ask a question back to Staff on your comment, and you brought this up before and I believe that you answered it, but I wanted to make sure we really understood the answer. Since people can build up to four units on any property I think regardless of even the size of the land underneath it, why would it make it necessary to take the missing middle housing discussion out of the General Plan? Because the people could do it anyway, even if we were to potentially reduce the densities, why would be need to take missing middle housing out of the General Plan? JOEL PAULSON: I can start, and then if Ms. Armer has anything to add. The missing middle is really a different opportunity. You wouldn’t be going through SB 9 for a missing middle housing project, because we would be increasing the density, which would allow more units outside of that. So you really would have two different paths; you’d have two options. You either use SB 9, which has a lot of advantages, or you could go through the missing middle housing component, which would allow more LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 106 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 units on a site. So there really are two different paths, two different options, and so that’s something the Commission and ultimately the Council will have to consider as well. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, that helps. Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes, thank you. I support maintaining the existing 2020 General Plan densities with a Low-Density Residential, and I’d like to reserve comment when we get to my submission to the Commission, but I would note that there is sufficient density in the High-Density Mixed-Use Office, Service Commercial, and Neighborhood Commercial designations to achieve that accomplishment, to achieve that goal, in the RHNA requirements, so I think that we can do it, especially in view of the SB 9 and the ADU requirements by state law. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. Let’s see, Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. I am not in favor of the changes recommended in 24 and 26, and I just want to say that I think creating a Low- to Medium-Residential category would be a really bad idea. I think that it would lead to some ugly arguments about what zoning goes where, and I don't know how those kinds of decisions would be LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 107 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 made, and the purpose of missing middle housing is that it blends in with the single-family homes, not that it gets its own designation in its own neighborhood, and so I also think that it would be kind of circumventing the benefits that we can get from missing middle housing. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, thank you for that. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I agree with Commissioner Clark’s comments, and I just wanted to say that I feel like it’s really important that we have as many pathways as possible for people to develop housing, so including having the missing middle pathway option, as Director Paulson was saying, and SB 9 option. Having both of those moving forward I think is important for developers and individuals. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. I just wanted to make a note for the entire Commission that we’re not making a decision on anything right now, we’re discussing, and then when we do talk about the numbers that would kind of go hand-in-hand and we’ll do like we did with the other elements and take a vote on the entire list of recommended changes to the element. So if you find later on in the discussion that something swayed you in a little bit different direction, it’s not an issue LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 108 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 at the moment, but I think this is a very good discussion to have. Commissioner Thomas, you just spoke. Do you still have more to add? Okay. Anyone else that wanted to comment on 24 or 26? Okay. So number 25 is somewhat related. I should say as a matter of background for those of you that are not on the Housing Element Advisory Board, there were some letters that were submitted to the Housing Element Advisory Board last week, and Staff would be more able to comment on it and it’s probably more of a Town Council issue at this point, but the gist of it was that some people were upset about the SB 9 Urgency Ordinance, which would prevent people from doing lot splits in the hillsides, and in the same letter—and these comments probably predate that—they were talking about they wanted to be able to take their existing hillside property, split it, and basically be able to have two lots and be able to stay in their home. Along with that we’ve gotten comments about there are some areas that aren’t truly in the hillsides in the sense of big, huge slope and small roads and all the things that the General Plan Advisory Committee worried about in terms of increasing any density in the hillsides, so the proposal was to look at certain areas on the fringes of the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 109 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hillsides that don’t have as much slope in the lots that could be possible candidates for additional density. So I wanted to share what peoples’ comments were in that area, but there are kind of a lot of things flying in the air right now around this topic. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: It’s unclear what fringe areas adjacent to San Jose might actually be, but we do have two of them included in our areas of opportunity, the Union Avenue areas as well as the Harwood Area, so those are two that border San Jose that are kind of the fringe areas of the hillside. Well, Harwood for sure, maybe not Union so much. I’m not really sure what the fringe areas of Los Gatos would be, so not really understanding this I wouldn’t be in favor of making those changes. The other communities that border, Campbell and Saratoga, I can’t see those fringe areas not being truly hillside and being susceptible to the wildfire dangers, which drove the GPAC to saying no development in the hillsides, so I’m not in favor of 25. CHAIR HANSSEN: Director Paulson, you had a comment? JOEL PAULSON: Yes, thank you. Commissioner Janoff just mentioned one of them, which is this was LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 110 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 discussed and there wasn’t an interest at the time with the GPAC to modify the density in the hillsides. I’ll give one instance of what could be fringe. I think this gets to the same conversation as creating a new category of this Low-Medium. I think the more potentially appropriate option would be, and you mentioned Harwood, so as you go up Harwood past that shopping center that’s in the Community Place District there are some Hillside Residential that come down, and they’re flat lots, they’re not sloped. If that was something that either the Commission or the Council were interested in, that would probably be a modification to the land use designation, because most of those abut Low-Density Residential, so it would be changing it from Hillside to Low-Density Residential, which would probably be more appropriate. I don't know that we have a whole lot of those areas. That’s the one that comes to mind, because we did have a very large lot adjacent to an R-1:8 subdivision, but they’re designated HR-1, and so that would probably be that fringe. That’s not adjacent to San Jose. The only areas in our hillsides that are adjacent to San Jose is really probably over by Hicks Road. We’ve got a subdivision out there that was done through a Planned LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 111 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Development, but we don’t really have a whole lot of areas that abut San Jose and that are zoned Hillside that probably are appropriate from that standpoint. I will say some of the ones on Harwood do back up, they abut San Jose at the rear of their properties, up Alerche, some of those properties, and probably even some of the Harwood ones, but that’s probably a very limited opportunity and I’m not sure if ultimately it’s worth the consideration to increase just for a handful of sites rather than potentially modifying the land use designation to the Low-Density Residential adjacent to it. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. That helps to clarify kind of where it would be. The properties that you were just talking about off of Hicks Road, I forget the name of the community, but those are very, very, very large houses. I mean, I’m having a hard time visualizing how you would go with those houses that are on pretty large lots and then add a lot of density, and it’s already fully built out is my understanding, so this sounds problematic to me how you would make that work. Any other comments on this one? Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I apologize for not reading all the Staff Reports on GPAC, but I wonder if Mr. Paulson LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 112 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could describe the basis for eliminating Hillside from the density increases? Is it the roads? JOEL PAULSON: I’m sure Chair Hanssen and Commissioner Janoff and potentially Commissioner Thomas could add some additional, but generally it’s wildfire access. Those are the typical issues, so to look at increasing the density in those areas, even though they are a lot of large lots, it was really some of those safety issues that were a big concern. JENNIFER ARMER: I would add that while I think that was the primary element, also an important component of the character of the Town is the views of the hillsides, and so additional housing in the hillsides makes it more and more visible and changes that character, so I think the fire danger was the primary component, but there were also discussions about visual impacts with more density in that sense. CHAIR HANSSEN: Yes, and I will agree that that was a secondary discussion, and I’ll have Commissioner Janoff comment as well when I finish. I can tell you that when we initially started the General Plan we had community meetings, and in one of those community meetings people were supposed to identify the things that were most important to them and most endeared LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 113 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them to living in Los Gatos, and by far and away the number one thing was safety, and as we were talking through it— this was in 2018 when some of the worst wildfires had happened—a lot of people in the hillsides are in neighborhoods where they have private roads, and those private roads are really skinny roads, basically one-lane roads, and people are terrified of this scenario where there’s a fire and there might be enough room for the fire truck to get up, but there might not be room for anyone to get out. That is actually a very common thing that we see in the hillsides, and so when we were talking through everything it was really a unanimous decision of recommendation of everyone on the GPAC that not only would we not encourage growth in the hillsides, but there is an implementation program in the General Plan to study the possibility of downzoning, which has it’s own set of implications because people own the land and they do have a right to build to a certain extent. The whole idea of what the General Plan Advisory Committee recommended is we can’t stop people from building on their land, but we’re not going to encourage a lot of additional density, because we don’t have anywhere close to the infrastructure to provide for the safety that everyone in Town desires. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 114 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: What I wanted to emphasize is that we’re working through the General Plan element-by- element, but when the General Plan Advisory Committee considered the General Plan it was as a whole. We’re looking at land use in isolation, but in this particular case, this is where it crosses over to the Hazards and Safety, or as Ms. Armer suggested, it crosses over to the visual character of the Town, so we’re looking at these in isolation, but it’s important for us to remember as we go through this process that the General Plan is a really much larger picture, and the decisions we’re making, or the recommendations we’re making, regarding any one of these elements need to hang together with the other elements, and so this is one that was really a very robust discussion over wildland safety, wildfire, and so on, and that was really the predominant element when it came to discussing this particular piece of the Land Use Element. So I just wanted to point out that we want to make this document as internally consistent as we possibly can, and this is one of the examples where it really is. CHAIR HANSSEN: And that was another good thing to bring up too about the open space. The open spaces that LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 115 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the Town is responsible for are all in the hillsides, and so when everything added up it didn’t make sense. Now, I did want to add one thing before we get to the numbers. There was a lot of discussion in the public domain about the difference between the 3,738 number and the 3,904 number. I might be off a little on the numbers, but the difference being the hillsides, and there is a number in there that says there could be up to 166 hillside units, but it’s not as a result of any policy that’s recommended in the General Plan. That’s simply the fact that people do own land there and we consistently are still getting proposals from people that want to subdivide their 22 acres and build ten new homes, and when they come to the CDAC unilaterally every response has always been that’s not a great idea, and a hundred neighbors come out and say that’s not a good idea, but nonetheless there will be some growth in the hillsides whether we encourage it or not simply by the virtue of people that own land that have a right to build on it and the zoning says HR-1 or 2.5 or whatever the case may be. Anyone else have comments on that? Like I said, we’re not making a decision at this point. I just wanted to make sure that we put these things on the table, and I LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 116 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 think it will help when we are talking about any adjustments we want to make to the build-out option. So then 27, “Utilize maximum FAR only for non- residential components of Mixed-Use project, because housing will be limited by maximum density.” I wanted to ask Staff a question about this. For all my years on the Planning Commission we’ve always used FAR, so this would be a departure from anything that we’ve done in the past. JENNIFER ARMER: I will start with we have treated Commercial in a couple of different ways, depending on the land use designation or zoning. For example, downtown there has been a floor area ratio that’s been consistently used for the entire building for Commercial, and that’s been in place for many years. In other Commercial zones, rather than an FAR, which is the floor area ratio, ratio of the floor area of the building to the property size, there was a combination of a height limit and a lot coverage. So if you have a height limit of 35’ and you’re talking about an office building, it’s really only going to be two stories, and if you have a 50% lot coverage, then that is actually effectively the same as an FAR of 1.0, because you could do LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 117 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 levels at 50% and you get 100% of the lot area in terms of floor area. It’s a little bit of kind of playing around with how to implement these, and one of the reasons to consider floor area rather than just lot coverage and height is that it does really look a little more at the massing of the building and gives some flexibility of how that building might be designed, depending on the layout of the site and the proposed uses, but there are different ways of using these different tools handled by different communities, and it looks like Director Paulson has something to add. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Ms. Armer. She explained kind of the existing rules. Typically we’re looking at density, and if you have three or more units FAR generally doesn’t apply, but because we were increasing FAR—and the GPAC members will remember this fondly—we had conversations constantly about density versus intensity, so this was intended to capture that intensity component from a total square footage standpoint. So if someone was proposing a Mixed-Use building, not only would we be counting the Commercial on the ground floor, but we’d be limiting to some effects the Residential up above, which for instance, one hypothetical is they want to go to the maximum density, which generally is going to LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 118 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 mean smaller units, so it’s kind of balancing the density versus intensity, and that’s why it’s written as it is currently. To Ms. Armer’s point, that really gets to also I think ultimately trying to deal with if we only use it for the Commercial component someone could just develop Commercial and not have Residential. They’re not required to be Residential in many of the designations, so then you end up with potentially a much larger, much more square footage for a Commercial building not having the Residential component. So that’s kind of another way to hopefully, as we implement it through zoning code or other mechanisms, again, incentivizing the development of Mixed-Use, which is a big component of the General Plan, so that we do get some of these sites containing Residential and Commercial. I think Ms. Armer might have some additional comment. JENNIFER ARMER: I just did want to add one additional thought in response to the comment that Director Paulson shared about density versus intensity, and a comment earlier from Commissioner Janoff about how increases in height, or also increases in floor area for example here, might be a component of some incentive programs that might be discussed by the Housing Element LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 119 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that if you build additional housing that additional floor area might be a possibility, and I think that is a component of some of the public comment that we’ve received related to this discussion of intensity versus density, that if you’re going to allow additional intensity that it really should be tied to building more housing, since that’s our goal. So I think that’s another component to consider, whether those might be tied in future discussions of how to incentivize and encourage additional housing. CHAIR HANSSEN: Staff recommended neutral on this, so my response as a member of the Housing Element Advisory Board would be I would only want to go in that direction if it was going to be an inhibiting factor for developers to want to build Mixed-Use. As long as the FAR is high enough I’m not sure that… And it seems like from our perspective FAR is a useful tool for controlling intensity, and then we have density and the interplay of those two things. So I didn’t hear any reason to not use FAR unless developers were telling us we can’t live using FAR at all when we’re building a Mixed-Use Commercial. I don't know what other people think, but that was kind of what I heard. No comments, so I guess you all agree. Okay, we’ll go on. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 120 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Number 28 was, “Change development rules to increase construction of diverse housing types, including greater density, higher height limits, lower parking requirements, more transit and connection to light rail.” I’m not sure what that means in terms of modifying the General Plan. Does Staff have any thoughts about this? JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. I would say that we are doing some of that with the policies and changes that are proposed in the Draft 2040 General Plan. I would say that this comment is probably encouraging the Planning Commission and Town Council to consider going farther in some of those areas. Without specific recommendations, we shared that general comment just to make sure that there was that voice, since that is part of the public comment that was received. CHAIR HANSSEN: And you did make a comment earlier on one of the other points that we could consider higher this or that than what is already proposed in the General Plan. I’m going to take Commissioner Thomas’ comment, but it seems like number 20 doesn’t really give us any direction in terms of how we should modify the plan unless someone is saying I wish the FAR was 4 instead of 3. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 121 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 They’re not saying what form it would take beyond what we’ve already recommended. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: In general I support these ideas, because I think that they are important for covering a lot of the policies in the General Plan, like a lot of the goals that we’re trying to reach for our community, but I wasn’t really sure where it would be put or how it would change, so that’s really what my comment was. CHAIR HANSSEN: I think we can kind of save 28 for when we actually talk about the numbers and then see if people… They know Commissioners have a reaction to is number enough? Do we need to do more based on what we know today, which might not be everything? Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Again, I think 28, 29, and 30 all speak to the kind of detail that we need to get to in the Housing Element. They’re all about housing. We’ve provided the framework in the General Plan to allow for, and I would just advocate that we allow the Housing Element to provide the exceptions or the incentives for high or higher density. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 122 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 As Commissioner Thomas said, and I completely agree with, these are great ideas but it’s not in this part of the General Plan where they belong, in my opinion. CHAIR HANSSEN: So you’re saying you wouldn’t even address this in the General Plan, you’d save it for the Housing Element. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes, it’s a real detailed and housing-specific kind of comment on 28. Number 29 is, “Allow Mixed-Use in High-Density.” Well, we’ve talked a lot about Mixed-Use and how feasible that is in High-Density, whether it’s buildable, whether builders build it, that kind of thing. What it all boils down to, as other Commissioners have said, is how are we going to get the housing that we need, and to me these three items, as well as others, are great incentives, but those details could be fleshed out in the… Keep this, but move it to the Housing Element. CHAIR HANSSEN: I was only wondering about 29. I’m going to ask Staff. Because there is a permitted uses table for every land use designation in the General Plan. I thought we allowed Mixed-Use in High-Density Residential, but maybe we don’t. JENNIFER ARMER: No, the Residential designations do not allow any Commercial. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 123 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, and we made a conscious decision not to do that, so that might be worth discussing either as part of our recommendation or deferring it to the Housing Element, but if we didn’t allow it in the General Plan it would be hard to do it in the Housing Element. We can think more about that, but I’m going to take Commissioner Clark’s comment. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. Yeah, Chair Hanssen, your comment that you just made kind of gets at my question, which is I completely agree with what Commissioner Janoff said. I think that these conversations really are best held in the Housing Element Advisory Board where there is a large group of experts and they’re having those conversations, but then what is the rule of the General Plan when we understand that that’s where these conversations will exist? Is it really important that make sure all of these ideas that we think are good will be possible, or do we understand that they might need to go in and make some changes to the decisions that will be made on the General Plan? CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m going to ask Staff to comment on that one as well so that I know we’re looking the right way about it. Director Paulson. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 124 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. Ultimately, as we go through the Housing Element we’re going to hopefully get a General Plan adopted, then we’re going to look at the Housing Element for those land use designations and see what number we can get to. There is a chance for one or more sites, or even designations. If we’re not getting to the numbers, or HCD is not agreeing with all the sites that we selected, so we have to come up with other ideas, there may be implementation programs that have to be added. The hope is that that will be a minimal number of modifications that would be subsequent changes to the General Plan. I think specifically 29; in rereading it I probably should have said this in the beginning. We’re all interpreting the public’s comments, which we may or may not be getting 100% right, so if any of these we’re getting wrong, please feel free to submit additional written comments. Looking at 29, we have very limited High-Density Residential land use designations, and so I actually in hindsight would say Staff would not recommend 29. Those are traditional High-Density—from the Town’s perspective—multi- family apartment buildings and things like that. We do have High-Density Residential built into some of our Commercial, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 125 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the Mixed-Use specifically, so I just want to provide some of that context as well. CHAIR HANSSEN: I think what you’re saying is if we want to have High-Density Mixed-Use we should have that Mixed-Use designation, not modify High-Density Residential. JOEL PAULSON: That’s correct. CHAIR HANSSEN: So you’re going to change your recommendation on 29 to not recommend it for the reasons we just discussed. Okay, got it. That helps, and that clarifies kind of what we were discussing when we went through the General Plan. I think we’ve covered actually 28, 29, and 30 unless people have other comments. On number 30, I’m going to go with what Commissioner Janoff was saying, which is that it might be a good tool for the Housing Element, but we may not want to go and create like artificially high General Plan limits when we could use it as a technique to motivate people to do affordable housing. We can have that discussion more when we’re talking about the land use build-out table and the standards, but right now we’ve gone up to 45’, as Ms. Armer noted, to match downtown. It might be necessary to go higher, but we probably don’t need to decide that just yet, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 126 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and we can decide what form it will take when we make our actual recommendation. But if people have comments about it, I would like to hear anyone’s thoughts about it. Okay, I don’t hear anything else. No hands are raised. I did want to talk about number 31 in spite of the fact that maybe it is more of a Housing Element discussion, but 31 is, “Reducing the maximum allowed floor area ratio in the Central Business District from 2 to 1.25.” Staff, is it 1.25 in the 2020 General Plan? JENNIFER ARMER: No, at the moment I believe the current regulations are .6 for downtown. CHAIR HANSSEN: Oh, so it’s even less than that. So putting more housing in downtown, as you’ve seen from the comments, has been fairly controversial, but I will share this, that the GPAC, in talking through the thing, it was a combination of no area should be immune, and especially we can for the most part rely on our objective standards to make sure that things fit in the neighborhood. Then we also had the discussion on Thursday at the Housing Element Advisory Board as we started going through the proposed site inventory that there are several potential sites that housing could be build in downtown. One, for example, is the post office, and there was a very LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 127 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 long comment made by Vice Mayor Ristow about how the post office is really not the best use for downtown and that it could turn into a really beautiful property with a smaller post office, you could get more housing, it would fit right in, so there are definitely people on very polarized sides of the issue. The Town Council did vote, when we went over the land use alternatives, to incorporate the Central Business District having additional housing. Then the only question would be how much? But that’s part of this thing with the floor area ratios, where that all came from, so I would be interested if people had thoughts, and we’ll have to end up having the discussion, when we talk about numbers, about whether and how much there should be in the downtown. No comments. Okay, I’ll defer to when we talk about the numbers. Let’s see, there were several comments about the North Forty, and the general response that was given, and some of this was in the EIR, some of it was in other places, but the developers of the North Forty, it’s my understanding the Specific Plan that governs the North Forty is separate from the General Plan, but it’s not in conflict with it, and it has standards for how much can be built, and because there’s the potential of additional housing—and Staff, jump in if I’m getting it wrong—that the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 128 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 developers can enter into a development agreement with the Town to build more housing, which would supersede the limited amount of housing that they’re able to in the North 20. Did I get that right? JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, I think you got that pretty right. One of the things that I would add is that because the two Specific Plans that we have in Town are included in the General Plan, both as the zoning designation and the General Plan designation, it’s there in place of another designation that might have been there previously, and so it does kind of defer to the rules that are in that plan. It looks like Director Paulson has something to add. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Ms. Armer, Chair. Ultimately, yes, I think most folks are aware there are a very limited number of units left from what’s currently allocated in the North Forty Specific Plan, 33 units. There’s been a lot of talk about the potential for additional units out there. There are multiple paths. You mentioned one, which the development agreement, which would probably have to be coupled with a Planned Development, which is also the other minor change that was made in the Specific Plan. The other probably more appropriate option would be to do a Specific Plan Amendment to increase that number. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 129 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 The current General Plan looked at far more units and they were ultimately approved out there. I believe the number in the EIR was 750 units for the North Forty, so there’s some capacity there from an environmental clearance perspective potentially, but should the Commission think that more units should go out there, those of you on CDAC saw a CDAC application that would have more units, which Staff at that time said would require a Specific Plan, but as you mentioned, there is the Planned Development development agreement option that may also be possible, but if it’s the interest of the Planning Commission from a recommendation standpoint that that number should be increased in the Specific Plan or through another mechanism, I think that would be great input for Council. CHAIR HANSSEN: Then I think that is something that we should discuss. What I understand from Staff’s perspective is that the modification wouldn't happen in the General Plan, it would happen in the Specific Plan, because the Specific Plan has all the objective standards of how we would do the North Forty, and so the right way to go about adding more housing would be to modify the Specific Plan. JOEL PAULSON: I think what we probably would recommend would be ultimately an implementation program that says modify the Specific Plan to increase the number LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 130 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of housing units. For instance, on the Boulevard, which is a Mixed-Use designation, the current Draft General Plan is going up to 40 units per acre. The current Specific Plan is at 20 units per acre, which is the existing General Plan designation for Mixed-Use, so that could be part of the conversation as well. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, so probably an important thing that we should resolve before we finish recommending any changes to the Land Use Element is whether or not we would recommend to modify the Specific Plan to add more housing. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes, thank you. I’m in favor of modifying the Specific Plan to include more housing (inaudible) since the EIR for the North Forty would accommodate additional housing, and it’s also one of the areas that’s probably on the Housing Element Advisory Board’s site selection list, so we’re already thinking of it in terms of providing additional housing, so it makes sense to me that we open it up to that possibility. It may not go there, but at least it gives us the option, and I think that makes sense. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s good. Commissioner Raspe. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 131 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER RASPE: Just to air the contrary view, my only concern is those units are just coming online now, and so we really don’t have a full sense of their impact on this community, and so I’d like to have a further discussion of what the impact of those additional units might be to infrastructure, all those areas that various commentators raised as part of that discussion. I think that would be valuable. Thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: That was a good thing to bring up. I would just point out what Director Paulson said, when the North Forty phase one application was approved the EIR was studied for the capacity of 750 units, a much bigger number than the 320 units that we have. The Environmental Impact Report looks at transportation, air quality, all those impacts, and although I remember that there was significant unavoidable impacts primarily in transportation, there was something in the order of $10-12 million dollars of mitigation that was paid for by the developers to alleviate and that reduce the impact somewhat, although it was still significant. Did I get that right, Staff? So I’m not sure if studying the thing further would have any impact if we already studied it for 750 units. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 132 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I understand Commissioner Raspe’s concerns and I think that we should be very thorough, but I assume that if there were any major changes to the plan and then there was actually development that would happen, we would have to do a very thorough analysis of the impacts, so I don't know if that’s kind of doing an analysis now before changing, if that’s putting the cart before the horse or not, but I might not be fully understanding the situation. CHAIR HANSSEN: I’m going to put that back to Staff. Supposing that we modify the Specific Plan to allow what was proposed in the CDAC hearing, I don’t remember, was it 300 more units or something? Right now they’re only allowed to do about I think 30 more units, because the whole idea of the original Specific Plan was most of the housing would be in the southern part and then as you move north you would have more Commercial, and so in the original Specific Plan they were only allowed to do Residential over Commercial and not on a standalone basis, but it’s been moving in the direction of more. Do we need to redo the EIR if the Town ends up going in that direction? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 133 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JOEL PAULSON: Thank you. The answer to that question is maybe. We would evaluate that when we received an application and look at whether or not we would have the ability to rely on the Specific Plan EIR or whether additional environmental review would be required. The big picture question at the General Plan level is do we think we should consider more units at this stage for the Planning Commission, and then we would go through the appropriate processes should we get applications for the site. CHAIR HANSSEN: So it depends. All right, Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you. I wanted to add that as we go through the process through the Housing Element Advisory Board we’re mindful of the big concern that too much development occurs in an areas that’s already overloaded, and that’s a consideration at the element level. We’re at the General Plan level, which says where might development possibly happen? We’re not saying it will, and certainly it wouldn’t be North Forty, Los Gatos Boulevard. We just couldn’t support that and HCD probably wouldn’t certify that. So again, we’re at a high level here with the General Plan thinking we’ve got areas in Town that could be LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 134 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 developed and it could be beneficial for the Town, we just need to be able to have the ability to look at those areas or consider development or not, and I think because our numbers are so high, it’s beneficial to have more areas to consider than not to help us hopefully get to where we need to be. I just wanted to remind everyone that we’re not saying it’s going to happen, we’re just providing for these are potential areas that could work if we loosen some of the bounds that are in place right now. CHAIR HANSSEN: I would also note, some of you guys are on the CDAC, I’ve listened in to the CDAC hearing where Harmony and Park Development and those guys were presenting their ideas for developing the North Forty, and the Los Gatos Community Alliance has been very vocal about limiting the amount of housing in Town and being conservative. They were all for putting more housing in the North Forty. You can ask what are all the reasons for that, but the fact was that that was a big thing, and I’m going to concur with what Commissioner Janoff said, which is that we probably shouldn’t eliminate any options unless there’s a really good reason for doing it, especially when we had to come up with that much housing. In the Balancing Act tool that’s out in the public right now the North Forty is a place where housing LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 135 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 could be put in terms of the draft site inventory, so we don’t have to make a recommendation right now, but there are definitely reasons to consider it. Let’s see, let’s keep going and see if we can at least get through the recommended changes. Number 33 and number 34 are just wording changes to the existing policies. Number 33 is adding the word “environment” to having to evaluate projects that have mitigation measures with things on the list, which they’re adding the environment to this. It says, “Urban services, wildfire risk, including utilities, police, and fire.” Then the second one, 34, is to add the words “migration” and “biological corridors” when we’re trying to, “Ensure that housing in the hillside will not adversely impact the natural environment.” So the question for Staff is you said you were neutral to adding the word “environment” to that policy statement in LU-3.2. Since we already have CEQA, what would be the benefit of adding the word “environment” to that policy? JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. I would say that we labeled this one and the next as neutral because that is covered elsewhere and through CEQA, that it’s not a problem LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 136 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to add that additional language to those two policies. We haven’t identified a significant problem with that, but generally the sense is that it is covered either here in other locations in the document or CEQA. CHAIR HANSSEN: So that’s why you’re neutral, it doesn’t really materially change anything one way or the other to have it in there. Then I assume that “migration” and “biological corridors” as in adding that to number 34 is in the same category from Staff’s perspective? JENNIFER ARMER: Correct. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. Does anyone have a feeling about is it important to add it or is it worth it? Commissioner Clark, and then Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER CLARK: I would be in favor of both of the additions for number 33. I feel like the public feels like that is important to have in there and I’m perfectly happy to put it in. And for number 34, I actually think that that increases consistent within the General Plan just because we’ve discussed some other areas that talk about wildlife corridors. CHAIR HANSSEN: I hate to belabor this point, but since I heard all the people testify in the hillsides when we did the Fence Ordinance, in 34 it says, “Ensure the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 137 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 housing in the hillsides will not adversely impact the natural environment,” then adding “migration” and “biological corridors,” so it’s probably redundant to the natural environment, but given what was said and some of the testimony we got from people in the hillsides, would we have to add like a checklist once that wildlife corridor study is done and when people are trying to build and say well you can’t build there? That would basically be included in the idea of the Least Restrictive Development Area, because it impacts a wildlife corridor. I don’t think we know yet, but I’m just asking the question in terms of where would this go? JENNIFER ARMER: I’d expect that if we do a wildlife corridor study that that would result in some specific recommendations, that we would be looking at how that study then might be implemented and that that would go through discussion with the Planning Commission and Town Council as to what components of that might be, say, added to the Hillside Design Standards and Guidelines as a new map or specific restrictions that would be part of the follow up discussion to doing that study. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, fair enough. And by the way, for the rest of the Commission, I’m not opposed to adding those words; I just wanted to make sure I asked some LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 devil’s advocate questions about it. So what I heard is it’s really premature because we haven’t done the wildlife study, and then there would have to be recommendations that came out of that, and so there’s nothing to be concerned about adding those words. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I was just going to second Commissioner Clark’s comments that if the public felt like they wanted to add these in and Staff doesn’t oppose it that we should include them, because I do think it creates some consistency in a way that it’s not redundant, but I think that they’re fine to include. CHAIR HANSSEN: That sounds good. I’m going to suggest that we don’t need to talk about 35 or 36, because they’re both in the same genre of what we talked about with the North Forty, which are the special planning areas. If it’s just a clarification thing, I would have no problem adding it, but if it’s going to be to modify the General Plan substantially to change anything that the place to do that is in the Specific Plan so that it’s not out of consistency with the General Plan, so that was my recommendation. Just so everyone who wasn’t on the General Plan Committee knows, we were very specific as we went through LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 139 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the entire process that whenever there were wording changes that didn’t impact the meaning of the General Plan we would have Staff unilaterally accept them and we didn’t need to talk about them, because there was hundreds and hundreds of pages and English and grammar that we don’t have to worry too much about as long as it doesn’t change the intent. So I’m just going to say we don’t have to talk about 35 or 36 unless Staff feels differently. Number 37 is another clarification thing. It’s to add the Town is facilitating discussions for residents and stakeholders, and someone wanted to add other local governments input into planning activities early on and through the development process, which seems like an easy add. I would hope we would be talking to local governments anyway. I don’t think it creates any conflict, and Staff was neutral. Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. I, personally, when I saw this kind of thought what would this actually look like and how important is it to specifically include local governments at all of these points? Especially I think the goal really is to reach the general public, and so first I don’t think that we need it, but second, I would LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 140 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 definitely want a better idea of how we would even go about doing this if we were going to add this. CHAIR HANSSEN: Actually, you raise a really good issue. If the development wasn’t anywhere near a Town border, then why would we involve other governments? And stakeholder could be broadly defined to include local government, especially if it was near a border. Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I’d be interested to hear from Staff why they’re neutral on this point, because it does seem to be overly broad. JOEL PAULSON: Thank you. From Staff’s standpoint, “stakeholders” is the broad term, so that would be a member of the public and any other local governments if they were in the vicinity. We do that as a matter of course. We have other projects where if it’s over a certain number of units, then we also make sure we reach out to school districts and other groups, so from our standpoint stakeholders covers a broad enough range from a General Plan perspective, but we’re neutral if the Commission thinks it’s important to add other local governments. I think what happens with a lot of these, and we have these discussions at the GPAC, is once you start adding one group, then do we need to add NGOs, CBOs, all LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 141 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 these other groups potentially? From Staff’s standpoint stakeholders covers it, but if the Commission is interested in adding additional qualifiers it’s not going to be an impact from our perspective. CHAIR HANSSEN: And number 38 is similar, about coordinating with public agency stakeholders such as Midpen specifically mentioned in this thing. That probably came from the Midpen, I don't know. What I’m hearing is maybe keep it more general, because if you start naming specific agencies, what if they change, and what if you left out somebody that you shouldn’t have, and we would always want to reach out to everyone that was significantly impacted by any development that we did to make sure that we had a conversation going on about it. I would say we haven’t made a recommendation yet, but we could probably just not make any changes per 37 and 38 and it wouldn’t hurt anyone and it would still be covered. Then number 39, I wasn’t sure where that was going and were we not doing enough to communicate with the public. I wasn’t sure what the change was, because there was nothing underlined. Does Staff know where this comment came from, because there was things that were suggested that was more than what we were doing? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JENNIFER ARMER: If we look at what the existing language is for policy LU-20.4, it’s talking about variety of public communication methods and it says that, “The Town shall continue to share public information across a variety of media, technology, and traditional platforms based upon the demographics of the community,” and so in looking at this I think it mostly wants to make sure there are specific examples of what would be included within that policy rather than keeping it general. I’ll also search and see if I can find whom that came from specifically. CHAIR HANSSEN: Several people have their hands up. I think Commissioner Janoff, and then Commissioner Raspe, and then Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: The way I read this is really traditional methods, like I don’t have a computer and I’m not connected to the Internet, so how am I going to get informed? As we go to the digital means of communication, those who don’t have access may feel that they’re being left out, so that’s how I read it. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s good, because you look at something and you’re like where did this come from, and so that makes sense. Commissioner Raspe. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 143 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I read it the same way as Commissioner Janoff that we were perhaps missing important segments of our population that aren’t exposed to electronic media. Specifically by way of example there were several comments that I think we could put in the no growth category, and I think if perhaps those individuals had a better understanding of, for instance, SB 35, some of the limitations that are placed upon the Town that really dictate this entire process, I think that would be helpful for the entire community and the Planning Commission and Town Council as well, so I think any effort that captures more of the community I think only serves to enrich the entire process. CHAIR HANSSEN: That sounds great. Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. I actually have a couple of problems with number 39. First, LU-20.4 already does say traditional platforms, and so it’s not like this is currently excluded. I think it is just specifying for this one and not the others, which I also think could be a problem. Another thought that I definitely have is that this method is bad for the environment compared to other ones, and if we’re talking about a 20-year General Plan I’d LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 144 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like to think that we’re able to find more creative ways to engage at some point, and since the language says, “traditional platforms based upon the demographics of the community,” I think that that does get at the fact that we want to make sure that we’re using outreach methods that will ensure everyone is reached, and maybe in 20 years everyone has a computer or something, so I don’t think that it’s super wise to include these specifics in the General Plan. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s very good additional input on the other side of thing, and that’s where this General Plan discussion is sort of like how far do you go? If it says traditional, is it enough, or do you need to have more? Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I wanted to agree with Commissioner Clark on this particular matter. I think that the existing LU-20.4 is broad enough. We keep talking about keeping the General Plan at a high level, and I think this is really getting down into the weeds. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, I think that’s good for now, and then when we get to the point where we’re ready to make the recommendation on the entire Land Use LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 145 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Element someone can make a motion about just leaving out 39 or whether to add it in any form. Then number 40, I’m going to add it in the same bucket as the North Forty. Number 40 says to, “Modify the North Forty Specific Plan to allow up to 40 dwelling units per acre to be consistent with the Mixed-Use land use designation on Los Gatos Boulevard.” We can certainly include modify the Specific Plan. I’m going to ask Staff a question though when we get to talking about numbers and specific recommendations. Were you hoping that the Planning Commission would make a recommendation like that specific about what density? JENNIFER ARMER: I would start by saying that we did say neutral for a reason, that really moving forward with additional housing in the North Forty area is going to be a separate process, but as Director Paulson stated, if there is an inclination from the Planning Commission based on your discussions, if that is something that you think would be worthwhile and that you do want to recommend and support, that that is a discussion point that we could bring forward to Town Council. CHAIR HANSSEN: So it’s probably worth being somewhat specific about it, but we don’t have to decide it right now. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 146 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We did get through all of the recommended changes to the Land Use Element except for number 20, which would be to talk about whether or not we should modify the number of new housing units. Now it is 10:54. We certainly aren’t going to be able to finish everything tonight, but we could decide to vote to move forward to 11:30, or we could vote to stop and then take up the discussion of the numbers and the Community Design Element and then the final recommendations on that EIR, so those are the options that we have right now. I’m going to ask Staff, I think because of our agenda we do have to have the report from the Community Development Director and subcommittee reports and the normal stuff for our meetings, is that correct? JENNIFER ARMER: I don’t believe we need to have those. I guess I could check and see. It could just have been our standard agenda since those will be taken care of on Wednesday. Mr. Paulson. JOEL PAULSON: I would say yeah, we probably could have struck those from this agenda since we’re going to be meeting Wednesday anyway. Obviously, you guys have been going at this for just shy of four hours. This next topic is going to probably engender a lot of discussion, so LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 147 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I’m not sure if it would be good to start it if you don’t think you’re going to finish it, but that’s my personal opinion, and ultimately it’s up to the Commission. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff, you had a comment? COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I agree, I don’t think that we’re likely to get finished with the Land Use Element tonight, but if it’s possible I think it would be very beneficial for the Commission to have a framework for how you would like to carry the discussion forward, so if it’s a table that you have in mind that we’re going to do number adjustments, help us understand the structure of the logic that you want to go through so that we can be prepared to think through those numbers and the rationale for any changes or no changes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. I can tell you what I had in mind was I’m going to go to page 14 of the Staff Report that came on April 15th in which discussion they took the 3,738 number that was out in the public domain and was the subject of a lot of press, mostly negative, for doubling our RHNA housing numbers, and although Staff has continued to explain that, that’s still pretty controversial. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 148 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 They went further than that on page 6 and talked about if you adjusted it for the fact that the General Plan is 20 years versus the Housing Element being on an eight- year time cycle, that we were down to 3,038 units because of existing projects and the accessory dwelling units that would built after. And they said specifically therefore if you consider the 1,993 times of 15% buffer of 2,292 units, comparing that to 3,038 in theory we are 746 housing units greater than the expected need for the Housing Element if you took it to the minimum. That is followed by some potential reductions in housing development capacity that were suggested by Staff after the result of the meeting that they had with Town Council back in December where they talked about potential directions where to go, and the Town Council is not telling us to reduce the number, they’re just saying that if we thought it was recommended to reduce the number, then these are some ways that could do it. So my idea about doing that was if you look at number 20 on Exhibit 7, it says, A) No increase in housing levels. These are possible modifications; B) Reduce the number of new housing units to a lower, less ambitious target; C) Reduce new housing units to 1,993, which is the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 149 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 exact amount of our RHNA, and remember we’re doing the General Plan, not the Housing Element; and D) Reduce the number of new housing units to 1,993 plus a 15-20% buffer. The place we have to kind of start is I think number 20, which is can we rule out a couple of those options, and there is actually Option E that’s not on here, which would be to leave it exactly as it is. So that’s where I’d ask you guys to start for when we do our next meeting and think about what are your responses to A, B, C, D, and E, and then we can talk about if the desire is to modify the housing numbers and make them lower what are the best ways to do that, and I think that will be a good discussion. Does that give you enough structure, Commissioner Janoff, in terms of what I was thinking of? COMMISSIONER JANOFF: (Thumbs up.) CHAIR HANSSEN: Does that help you guys in terms of thinking about it for when we continue the discussion? Okay. Are there questions that you have about how we should go about this, or suggestions that you would like to make before we set the date for continuing the discussion? Commissioner Clark. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 150 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER CLARK: I just want to quickly make a motion to extend the meeting to no later than 11:30, assuming that we’ll end much earlier than that. CHAIR HANSSEN: That’s right, because we have to do that. Thank you. Second? Commissioner Thomas has a second. I will just do a quick roll call vote. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. And as Commissioner Clark suggested, we aren’t going to go nearly that long, but this would be a good time to help kind of frame things and ask questions that would help set us up for success when we continue the meeting so that we can finish the next meeting. Commissioner Thomas, and then Commissioner Raspe. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 151 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I know that we don’t want to get into a discussion of everything in detail, but I am just a little bit curious to hear some of the Commissioner’s general thoughts on these ideas about where they’re coming from so that we could kind of like take that away with us and process it over the next couple of days. I don’t have any new information, but I know that this is an important discussion. CHAIR HANSSEN: Here’s a suggestion I have. Why don’t we take a read on everyone’s feedback on number 20, and adding in option E that’s not on there, which is not changing the numbers at all, and see where everyone’s initial read is on it, and then we’ll have a more in depth discussion about whether we go in that direction and to what extent in the follow up meeting. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I think that would be helpful to me, because I just have no idea where everyone else is. I don’t mind going first. CHAIR HANSSEN: Go ahead. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: As a member of the GPAC who already approved this, and understanding the full extent of the entire situation and what Staff has provided with us, I do not support A, B, C, or D. I don’t think we should LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 152 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 modify. I think we should go with the original number in the Draft 2040 Plan. CHAIR HANSSEN: So my suggestion of adding E, which is not modifying what’s in the draft right now. Commissioner Raspe, you had your hand up but you don’t have it up anymore. COMMISSIONER RASPE: I don’t want to derail the train of discussion, but I was just going to address a procedural question. I think it’s clear we’re not going to finish Land Use and/or address the Design Element tonight, and we have a meeting scheduled Wednesday. I was curious— and I think I know the answer to this—can we add this discussion to that agenda, or is it too late because that agenda has been published, or should we consider our next meeting for this discussion? I don’t mean to interrupt; I wanted to put that out there. CHAIR HANSSEN: It’s a very good question. I will hand it over to Staff, but I’m going to guess that because the agenda is already out there we won’t be able to add it to Wednesday’s discussion. JENNIFER ARMER: Actually, Staff recommendation was going to be you continue to a date certain of the 27th and we would just add it on as an additional item after the existing items that are already on the agenda, so it would LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 153 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 be continued, and it would be Item 4, I believe. Director Paulson. JOEL PAULSON: We did consult with the Town Attorney. We would just do an amended agenda tomorrow, given the timeframe, and we get that posted. CHAIR HANSSEN: We can do that after we finish the question that on the table in terms of recommending the date certain, right? But that is good to know, because as your Chair I would rather do that than go to another special meeting. ROBERT SCHULTZ: Chair and Commissioners, the Brown Act specifically allows you to continue a meeting within five days of the meeting, and you can continue this item to Wednesday. The Brown Act specifically allows you to do that and then (inaudible). And then Staff will change the agenda to reflect that tomorrow, but you’re allowed to do that if you’re within five days of the continuance, so you’re able to do that. CHAIR HANSSEN: That is very, very good to know, because the other advantage of doing it on Wednesday would be it will be fresh in our minds and we can kind of pick up from where we left off without a lot of interruption. Would others like to comment on number 20, on what general direction they’d like to go? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 154 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: I think it’s apparent from my submission that I would go with D. CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. I don't know if you all saw Vice Chair Barnett’s submission, but he had a spreadsheet with specific recommendations that he was advocating for. Others? Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I haven’t had a chance to review Vice Chair Barnett’s submission yet, but my thinking is largely similar to his in reducing it to a less ambitious target, so I will look at his figures as well as reducing it to the RHNA numbers plus a reasonable buffer in the 15-20% range. That’s where my thinking is at the moment, but to be fair to the Commission, I’m still processing this information and so open to any discussion. Thank you. CHAIR HANSSEN: No, that’s fine. We’re just weighing where we kind of stand right now, and then we’re going to discuss it more, and then you may still feel the same way or not after we get through it. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you. I’m of two minds. I think as Commissioner Thomas said, it was quite a bit of deliberation that went into the numbers. The actual LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 155 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 number that was in the General Plan was a surprise to many of us, because that wasn’t a number that we had seen. Nonetheless, it wasn’t an unreasonable extrapolation from the discussions that we had, and keeping in mind that the General Plan is a 20-year plan and covers three housing cycles. In the worst case you could envision three housing cycles that demand you to create 1,993 units in each cycle, which puts you in the neighborhood of 6,000 units. That’s probably not going to happen, who knows? But even if you step back and say we’re not likely to get a zero housing RHNA number, so what we’ve had in the past is somewhere in the neighborhood of 500-600, so then you have 2,000 from this cycle, 600 from the next cycle, and perhaps another 600 from the next cycle, which gets you to approximately 3,200 units. I can understand the concern among the Town residents that the number is too high, and there’s a difference between planning for a high number and saying that is the number that is going to be built, so that’s an important distinction in my mind. Having said that, I would recommend that we do B, but probably with a more ambitious/less ambitious target certainly than Vice Chair Barnett has proposed in his LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 156 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 table, because I think we do need to be mindful of the future cycles that will be under the umbrella of this General Plan, should it get recommended and approved. Having said that, if we’re going to review the Land Use Element every five years and make adjustments as needed to accommodate the trend of housing development under the current cycle or what we see in the future cycle, then I can see that we could have a less ambitious number now, but then the Town would need to understand that it could get ambitious later. It’s kind of a question of managing expectations, and I want to be sure that the Planning Commission and whatever we recommended is really dead, dead clear on this is this Housing Element, this is the next Housing Element, and this is the next Housing Element. So we separate out all of those pieces so residents can understand what those numbers are tied to, what are being actionable, what’s actionable in this cycle versus outlying cycles, and why the General Plan needs to plan for more than just the current RHNA cycle, so that’s my short explanation of why I’m at a fat B. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. Commissioner Clark. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 157 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER CLARK: Thank you. Something that I would like my fellow commissioners to consider before the next meeting is how many units, not that you want the RHNA number to be or anything like that, but how many units you want to be built, because I think that the reality is that that number is so big, because they’re not going to get built. It is so hard to develop, and now matter how hard we tried that’s not going to happen, especially just because of the amount of time that it does take to build, and so I think that I’m more in favor of keeping it a bigger number, because that way we’re allowing for more opportunities for development in hopes that we might actually meet our RHNA number. I think in terms of getting our Housing Element through, we’ve seen the HCD is very, very strict as we watched the Southern California cities go through review, and I think something that would go a long way with them is seeing that we are prepared for the capacity for more than we were actually required to, because that makes it a lot more likely that we actually reach our number, and that makes it easier to get the Housing Element through as a whole, because that I think will be one of the most highly weighted aspects, and then after that there’s going to be LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 158 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like AF of H and the policies and the outreach and things like that. CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for that. So I’ll weigh in. This was mentioned a bit earlier, but when we started this whole process of updating the General Plan I remember sitting down with a couple of Town Council members and I said, “Well, if we’re going to go through this process of trying to manage our growth kicking and screaming, instead of trying to take the reins and grow in the way that we’d like to grow, and that’s hopefully in concert with what is expected by the state, I would much prefer to be with that kind of process where we’re not kicking and screaming. I’ve never been a fan of doing the absolute minimum and fighting everything every step of the way, because we have to be thinking that we’re in the role of planning for the future, and it was obvious at the beginning of the General Plan process that we’re not building the kind of housing that is going to be right for the kind of population that we’re going to have going forward. I’m not even considering talking about a lot of people that don’t live in Town now, which we do need to think about, but just the seniors that want to go to move- LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 159 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 down housing, of which there’s none. There is senior member care and things like that, but there’s no move-down housing for seniors or for our youth. I have college age kids that are getting out of collage and they can’t afford to live here, and we don’t have the kind of housing that they can do either. Instead, we’re building 6,000 square foot houses with 4,000 square foot faces that cost $4-5 million dollars that they won’t be able to afford for decades, if ever. So I’m definitely of the mind that we need to build a lot more smaller units. Getting back to the number, when we started the General Plan process we didn’t know what the RHNA was. We talked about 2,000 units and it was big number, but we were looking at 20 years, and then as it turned out that became our RHNA, and then so when we were doing the General Plan we said since we already are at 2,000 units, do we need to think about planning for even more so we’d be covered, but now that we’re talking about updating the Land Use Element, I don’t feel as big about that. So getting back to the actual recommendation, I’m sympathetic to all the concerns, and people are terrified in Town, and I too am a resident of the Town, and I think we have to worry about managing growth and growing in the right way, so I think that it would be prudent to think LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 160 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about making some kind of reduction from the almost 4,000 number, even though we’re looking at a 20-year timeframe, and bringing it back to something. But if you consider, I’ll just give D, for example, reducing the number of new housing units to 1,993 plus a 15-20% buffer, even that number isn’t going to work, because just taking ADUs, for example, we have projected 25 ADUs per year for so many years, and then there’s 300 more ADUs that we expect to get in the decade following the Housing Element that’s coming up, and so there’s going to be 300 more housing units that we have no control over whatsoever that are already going to be part of that process, so I’m definitely thinking it’s going to be a number higher than 2,292, and then the question is what is the right number? I’m open to hearing what you guys think, but I’m not keen on the idea of eliminating entire categories of places where we could add additional housing. So that’s kind of where I came out, but I’ll be interested to see where we go with the discussion, and hopefully we can come up with a good recommendation that will make sense for the Town Council. That being said, we don’t need to do the rest of the meeting stuff, because we’re going to have our meeting LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 161 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on Wednesday, but we do need to make a motion to continue this meeting to a date certain. Would one of you make that motion for me? Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: I move to continue this meeting to April 27th date certain. Should I include the time? CHAIR HANSSEN: No. COMMISSIONER CLARK: That’s my motion. CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, second? It looks like Vice Chair Barnett has his hand up. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes, I’d be happy to second the motion. CHAIR HANSSEN: Then we will do a roll call vote. Commissioner Thomas. COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Raspe. COMMISSIONER RASPE: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Clark. COMMISSIONER CLARK: Yes. CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Barnett. VICE CHAIR BARNETT: Yes. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/25/2022 Item #1, Draft 2040 General Plan and Final Environmental Impact Report 162 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well, so that passes. I wanted to take a minute just to thank you all for all your time and attention. It’s been a long meeting and we’ve gotten through a lot of material, and I think we’re in good shape to continue this and hopefully finish the rest of what we need on Wednesday, but certainly we should be able to finish Land Use and Community Design, and then hopefully the EIR as well. So I thank you all for that. We will see you in a couple of days, and this meeting is adjourned.