08 Attachment 3 - November 11, 2020 Planning Commission Verbatim MinutesLOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 11/11/2020
Item #3, 35 University Avenue (Charles Schwab Bank)
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Melanie Hanssen, Chair
Kathryn Janoff, Vice Chair
Jeffrey Barnett
Reza Tavana
Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Robert Schultz
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(619) 541-3405
ATTACHMENT 3
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR HANSSEN: We will now move on to Item 3,
which is a request for… Oh, Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Oh, sorry. I know that
you're starting; I don't know if this is the right time to
state that I will need to recuse myself from this item.
CHAIR HANSSEN: This is as good a time as any, so
yes, thank you very much. All right, so Commissioner Burch
is recused. We do have a quorum with the four of us, is
that correct? And in the event that we have a split vote 2-
2, what do we do, because I haven't encountered the
situation yet as Chair?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: We’ll look to the Town
Attorney to confirm, but if it's a 2-2 vote then it would
be a denial.
TOWN ATTORNEY SCHULTZ: That is correct.
CHAIR HANSSEN: That is correct? Okay. I don't
know that it will happened, but I wanted to ask the
question just so I knew. Commissioner Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I have a disclosure to
make that I have several accounts at this Schwab branch in
its existing location, but I believe that I can make an
independent judgment on the application.
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CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. And is that okay with the
Town Attorney? That's not a conflict of interest, is it, or
is it?
TOWN ATTORNEY SCHULTZ: It certainly could be.
Unfortunately it's being brought up at this late hour, so
we'll move forward. Off the top of my head I don't believe
so, because you make your financial income off of the
stocks I'm assuming that you have with Schwab and not from
Schwab itself, so your income is derived from the stocks
that you earn as opposed to from Schwab, and so we'll move
forward with it.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. Thank you for letting us
know.
TOWN ATTORNEY SCHULTZ: And I would just make
certain the Planning Commissioners understands to please
bring these up as soon as possible when you receive a
conflict of interest.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, that sounds good. So,
Commissioner Burch is recused and we will go ahead with the
hearing.
This item is a request for a Zoning Consistency
Determination and approval of Conditional Use Permit U-20-
009 for a bank, being Charles Schwab Community Banking and
Investment Services, on property zoned C-2:LHP:PD located
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at 35 University Avenue, APN 529-02-044. The property owner
is SRI Old Town LLC, the Applicant is Amber DeMaglio, and
our project planner is Sean Mullin.
Before we go to the Staff Report I would like to
ask for a show of hands from Commissioners who have been
able to visit the site. Okay. Probably everyone has been by
that part of town. Are there any disclosures beyond what we
already heard? Okay.
I understand Mr. Mullin will give us the Staff
Report.
SEAN MULLIN: Thank you and good evening. Before
you tonight is a request for a determination of the zoning
consistency for Charles Schwab Community Banking and
Investment Services and consideration of a Conditional Use
Permit for that proposed use.
The subject property is located in the Old Town
shopping center on the west side of University Avenue in
the C-2 zone. The Applicant proposes to occupy a vacant
ground floor tenant space near the corner of University and
Elm Street.
The C-2 zone is intended for predominantly
pedestrian-oriented uses such as retail services and
entertainment. Office uses are allowed in the C-2 zone but
may not be located on the ground floor per the Town Code.
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The bank use is allowed in the C-2 zone on the ground floor
with the approval of the Conditional Use Permit.
Traditionally, businesses that provide investment
services have been considered office uses and may not be
located on the ground floor in the C-2 zone. The Applicant
requests that the Planning Commission determine that the
proposed use is a bank and seeks approval of a Conditional
Use Permit for the use to be located on the ground floor in
the tenant space at 35 University Avenue.
The Applicant has provided a Letter of
Justification, project description, and a letter describing
the proposed use that speaks to the consistency of the use
with the C-2 zone.
A Desk Item has been distributed to the Planning
Commission providing additional public comment received
after the publishing of the Staff Report, and Staff
recommends that the Planning Commission review the
application materials and determine whether the proposed
use is a bank. If the Commission determines the use is a
bank, Staff recommends approval of the Conditional Use
Permit subject to the recommended Conditions of Approval
included with your Staff Report.
This concludes my report and I'm happy to answer
any questions.
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CHAIR HANSSEN: Before I ask any other
Commissioners, I did want to clarify it's my understanding
after speaking with Staff yesterday that it is two separate
decisions that are related. One is making a decision about
whether or not this is a bank, and then additionally we
would make a decision to approve or not approve the
Conditional Use Permit. Since we have some Commissioners
that haven't been with us as long and we haven't seen a
Conditional Use Permit for a while, I would remind the
Commission that Conditional Use Permits run with the land,
so if we approve it then whatever that use is will be the
one that carries over even if Schwab wasn't to continue
with it. That was something that I wanted to clarify and
make sure that we had right with Staff.
Then I will ask if anybody has any questions? I
think that Ms. Renn is also here, our Economic Vitality
Manager. Go ahead, Commissioner Tavana.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: Just a quick question. Was
it mentioned that there was a Desk Item distributed on this
topic?
SEAN MULLIN: Yes, there was a Desk Item
distributed this morning for additional public comment
received after the publishing of the Staff Report.
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COMMISSIONER TAVANA: I don't think I received
that, but okay, I'll take a look for it.
CHAIR HANSSEN: I'm actually not sure I received
it either; I checked and thought maybe I missed it, but I
think it would be helpful.
I'm just going to make a suggestion while we're
still on the Staff Report that if we could hear from Ms.
Renn about her thoughts about this application and if it
came to that where there was concern about the Conditional
Use Permit, are there other opportunities to fill this
vacancy left by The Gap?
MONICA RENN: Without giving any personal opinion
on the Staff Report or the application I can just say that
I've been working with the Applicants for over a year now.
They do have a current location in town which to date we
have looked at as a legal nonconforming space. As I
understand it, they intend to relocate their space to the
one that's on the application today, the former Gap
building.
It's really hard to say what could fill this
space other than this use at this time. Retail was already
changing, it was already shrinking and the format was
looking much different, and then we had the pandemic of
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course hit in March which has really just turned our
economic situation upside down.
It's hard to predict what's going to be next. I
can say that we have had some new businesses looking to
come into town. Very few are retail; they're mostly food
uses or kind of hybrid uses since service isn't really
something that can be done in a lot of places, so it's hard
to predict, not knowing how long we'll be with this
pandemic and what that economic outcome is going to be, how
retail with look in a couple of months.
I can just say that to date I haven't received
any inquiries on this space other than from Charles Schwab
and I don't know that we've really had a flood of any other
type of retail. I would say if anything I'm seeing people
looking for a small footprint so that they can have maybe a
brick and mortar footprint as well as some space in the
online world.
If you have any other specific questions let me
know if I missed something.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Do any Commissioners have any
questions for Ms. Renn or Staff? Vice Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Just a quick question for Ms.
Renn. The Desk Item. One of the statements in the Desk Item
indicated that we were on the precipice of an economic boom
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and that we were going to see… I'm paraphrasing it, I don't
have it in front of me, but the gist of it was we're just
so close on the cusp of this big economic recovery and why
would we install a so-called bank in a retail space? Am I
to understand from previous comments that the likelihood—
well, I guess it's hard to say but I'll say it anyway—the
likelihood of a retail footprint being in this space seems
low at the moment?
MONICA RENN: It's really hard to say for this
specific space, mostly because Old Town works a little bit
differently than the rest of downtown predominantly because
it has one single owner. They are able to do a little bit
more programming and do a little bit more kind of
synergistic programming where they're looking at certain
retailers and certain businesses that follow one another
around, whereas downtown you may have any owner that owns
one or two spaces next door to each other, so there's less
of that opportunity to really program a larger space. To
me, Old Town is almost a center inside our downtown, it's a
little hub inside of downtown; it even looks a little bit
different than the rest of downtown in my opinion.
I really don't know. I did see the letter that
came in. I think there are some really interesting business
concepts that are going to come out of the pandemic. I
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think people have really been forced to look at things
differently and get creative. I think we will see new
business models. I've been very impressed with how well Los
Gatos has weathered this storm and how so many businesses
have stayed relevant and have changed their business
models.
I just don't know what could come in here.
Federal Realty has over and over proven to do a good job
with their tenanting, but I just don't know, I can't speak
for them to know if they have somebody else or could find
somebody else.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Just a quick follow up, if I
might?
CHAIR HANSSEN: Go ahead, Vice Chair.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: If the Old Town is owned by
one owner and it has so many stores and the opportunity to
do, as you say, programming and try to recruit stores into
the spaces that would kind of logically fit with the other
retail, and that's not happened—I mean, Gap isn't gone yet—
but presumably they would be looking for a retail fit if
they could find one. Is that a fair statement?
MONICA RENN: Well, I think there are a couple
things that go on. Not all the time does a business leave
right when they decide to or right when they stop paying
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rent. Sometimes a property owner will keep them around. I
have heard this could be the case with Gap. I don't know
that for a fact but I've heard that they have been given
the opportunity to stay in order to not have a vacant space
sit on the corner there.
Again, it's hard to say. I know that the formula
that they work with has specifics to it, so it's not like
they can necessarily say we have six people who will
backfill this if this doesn't work out. I think on the flip
side of that they may be looking at if this does work out
this could then provide a draw for another set of retailers
or another set of businesses.
It would probably be a question that you could
ask more specifically of one of the representatives that I
see here tonight in the attendee list; they may be able to
give you some more insight on their formula.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Thank you.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for all that insight,
Ms. Renn. Do any other Commissioners have questions for
Staff at this time? There will be another chance to ask
Staff questions later. Then we will go ahead and open up
the public hearing to allow that Applicant to address the
Commission for up to five minutes.
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DIRECTOR PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. It looks
like Mr. Kreshek is going to speak on behalf of the
property owner, and so I'm going to allow him to talk for
up to five minutes on the application.
JEFFREY KRESHEK: Thank you, Commission and Ms.
Renn. I appreciate the thoroughness of the report and the
dialogue thus far. My name is Jeff Kreshek. I'm Senior Vice
President for Federal Realty; I handle the west coast
leasing. We're a publicly traded real estate investment
firm, over 50 years publicly traded on the New York Stock
Exchange.
We've owned this property for 23 years, and I
think that's a very important distinction. We're not a
development company that comes in to develop something, own
something, turns it around and does something else with it.
We stay with our communities for a very long time. Our
average length of hold is well over 23 years on our
portfolio nationally.
I think Ms. Renn really hit the point that we'd
like to make here today: We were going through an evolution
in retail before COVID. So, Vice Chair Janoff, to your
comment in that letter about this precipice, I couldn't
disagree more. Are we on the precipice of the next normal?
Yes. This revitalization, I don't know that I can call it
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that and I don't know that it goes directly that way, we
are on the precipice of the evolution of retail, and I want
to make sure that it's really understood.
When COVID ends, what's happening in retail
doesn't end. What's happening today in retail, and the
changes that are happening, and why community-serving uses
such as Schwab are so important to these downtowns was
happening long before COVID. I believe, Ms. Renn, you and I
met on the property maybe two years ago when we identified
some of these issues and some of these problems, and we
pointed out that retail is evolving, and community-facing,
Amazon-proof type of use such as a bank is a vital part of
any downtown of any project, and you can see it in areas
like Palo Alto, Walnut Creek, even in our very own Santana
Row in San Jose.
So, this is not an unusual use to find in a
vibrant retail community and it is customer-centric, and
again—I think it's an important point—it is somewhat
Amazon-proof as well. This is not a service that many
people are doing online, certainly not on the investment
side, but even on the banking side. People still like to
have that relationship, that direct connection, so I think
that's very important to note.
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I'm happy to take any questions as far as what
the merchandizing strategy is, how we evolve the project.
But you'll notice Sephora is under construction. We
recently were able to add that.
And to answer the question that was asked, yes,
it is safe to say that if we could find a retail tenant to
come into this space we would do so, but keep in mind, and
to Ms. Renn's earlier point, retailers today are much, much
smaller. That Gap space is almost 9,000 square feet.
There's not a big universe of large-scale users. As a
matter of fact, if you look at what's happening on the
landscape, the large-scale users have been closing stores
and filing bankruptcies, including Sur la Table, Brooks
Brothers, J. Crew, Forever 21, and a list that goes on and
on; it's been a virtual hit parade lately of store closings
and bankruptcies.
But the real focus here is that Schwab's business
has evolved over 20 years. What they were when they took
the original space is not what they are today, and I do
believe we have members of the Schwab team that would like
to speak within the three minutes about how their business
has evolved and how they are a community-serving bank.
CHAIR HANSSEN: How much time does the Applicant
have left?
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DIRECTOR PAULSON: We've got a little over a
minute-and-a-half and I see a couple of hands up, so I'm
not sure which person would like to speak. I've got a Mr.
Zac and a Mr. O'Marah it looks like, and so I am going to
let Mr. Zac speak, see if he is speaking on behalf of
Schwab.
RICHARD ZAC: Thank you, everyone, for the
opportunity. My name is Richard Zac; I'm the Regional
Manager for Charles Schwab Bank and I just want to take a
couple of minutes to describe a little bit about the
evolution, and then my colleague Pat O'Marah can talk about
our involvement in the community.
Schwab is a modern wealth management company.
We're committed to helping our clients reach their goals
through integrating a human, a local, a branch platform,
along with a very robust online and mobile platform. We
leverage both the power of people and technology. We find
in the branch network many clients like to meet with us
live in person, particularly when they're developing their
plan to manage finances, which is why we have the branch
footprint in the first place.
We're not new to Los Gatos. We've been here for
20 years. In that time our business has really evolved and
has grown dramatically. Schwab Bank was created in April of
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2003 after we started in Los Gatos 20 years ago. In that
time, right now today, Charles Schwab Bank is the eleventh
largest bank in the country, $348 billion dollars in
assets. We are a bank for investors that provides all the
traditional things you might think of with banking:
checking, bill pay, ATM, mortgage, home equity lines, trust
services. And lastly, before I turn it over to Pat, J.D.
Power ranked Schwab Bank the highest in customer
satisfaction in the United States two years in a row.
I think my colleague Pat has a few things to add
with respect to our involvement in the community. Pat.
DIRECTOR PAULSON: Chair, we've got about five
seconds, so Mr. O'Marah, you're going to need to make this
quick, but the Commission may have questions. Mr. O'Marah,
you can unmute yourself.
PAT O'MARAH: Yeah, I don't know that I can add
much in five seconds. I apologize; I had intended for these
to be separate comments.
CHAIR HANSSEN: The Applicant will have a chance
to speak again after we take public comments in response to
any public comments that we get, so why don't we go with
that and then let me ask if any Commissioners have a
questions for the Applicant at this moment? I'm not seeing
anyone with their hands raised. Commissioner Barnett.
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COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Is Schwab chartered as a
bank in the State of California?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: Mr. O'Marah or Mr. Zac, either
one, I'm going to allow both of you to talk.
RICHARD ZAC: Our registration is in Nevada.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Are there other questions for the
Applicant at this time? I'm not seeing anyone, so that
being said we will move on to public comments. If any
members of the public would like to speak on this item you
may do so for up to three minutes.
DIRECTOR PAULSON: The first speaker we have,
Chair, is Ms. Somers.
CATHERINE SOMERS: Great, can you hear me?
CHAIR HANSSEN: We can hear you.
CATHERINE SOMERS: Wonderful. Good evening,
Planning Commissioners. My heart is kind of pounding right
now, I have to say, because this is one of the hardest
deliveries I've given, but I have to leave you with
actually just three words: It's not a bank. And it will be
really a bummer if we allow for that space to turn over
into office space.
I'm hoping that all of you will read the Desk
Item, or at least before you make decisions tonight read
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the Desk Item that was given to you I think by Jim Foley.
Perhaps his words were a little aggressive when he said
we're on a precipice of new era, but my board has been
working really hard… I don't think I mentioned that I was
the Executive Director of the Chamber of Commerce. My board
has been working really hard on bringing new businesses to
town and we are seeing a lot of interest, and I think
during this pandemic businesses are changing, they're
adapting to new circumstances, we're starting to see some
new developments in different things, we've had a lot of
new businesses open in town and more are coming.
We've really worked hard to reach out to Federal
Realty, and that Old Town space is a gem, probably one of
the most valuable and beautiful in our town, and I think
really what needs to happen is that we need to work more
closely possibly with Jeff and Zac and all these other guys
that are on the line here, and develop that as it really
could be developed. I mean, that in and of itself could
make Los Gatos a destination like no other in Northern
California. Better than Santana Row, and I say that
seriously. I think we have just allowed that space to sort
of become a little desolate and a little downtrodden and I
just think if there's something that we can do to work
together.
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I mean, I agree, the GAP space is a big space,
but I don't think we need to put something in there where
if you look at the floor plans it's office space and that's
all it is. And we need something in there. Maybe it's
divided into a couple of different spaces, but we're more
creative than this and I think working with them we can
actually come up with something that's different and
cutting edge. Maybe it's pop-up studios, I don't know what
it looks like, but I just think that we are selling out if
we allow that to become a Charles Schwab. Thanks.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you for your comments. It
looks like Vice Chair Janoff has a question for you.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Thank you, Ms. Somers. You
stated emphatically that Charles Schwab is not a bank.
That's contrary to the limited research that I've done to
determine that question. Can you tell us why you are
adamant that they are not a bank?
CATHERINE SOMERS: I may be a little ignorant
here. I look at the banking institutions that we have along
North Santa Cruz Avenue, which by the way are taking up
some really dead space on North Santa Cruz right now, and
very few customers are going in, the parking is left empty
all the time where we could use that for other uses, but
I've never equated… So, this is just my own personal
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feelings. I don't know too many people that go into Charles
Schwab to whatever, cash checks or do the regular banking
that we do at a Bank of America or a Wells Fargo or even a
Heritage Bank; it just seems completely different to me. I
agree with you, I perhaps don't know all my facts on that,
but it just seems that…
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: That's fine. That's fine,
you've answered the question.
CATHERINE SOMERS: I'm sorry.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Do other Commissioners have
questions for the speaker? Okay, seeing none, are there
other members of the public that would like to speak in
Public Comments?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: I don't see any other hands
raised from the public, so we can go back to the Applicant
and their team, and they would have three minutes.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, so the Applicant has up to
three minutes to respond to comments from the public or
comments from the Commission and then Commissioners will
have another chance to ask the Applicant any questions.
DIRECTOR PAULSON: I'm going to allow Mr. Kreshek
and Mr. Di Geronimo and Mr. Zac to speak and they can
figure out how they would like to split up their three
minutes.
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JEFFREY KRESHEK: I'm going to go very quickly.
I'm more than happy to speak with Ms. Somers. Nobody from
the Chamber has reached out to me; I don't know if you've
reached out to others at Federal Realty.
As far as demising the space, we will be demising
it into two spaces. Unfortunately, it does not physically
demise into more spaces given the grade change in the
sidewalk on I believe it's the north side, as well as the
bank of gas meters and the limited frontage. This really
does become the most efficient demise of the space so it
doesn't break up into several other smaller spaces. But
I'll let Mr. De Geronimo respond from there.
MICHAEL DI GERONIMO: Yes, I just wanted to make
a couple of really quick comments and then turn it over to
Charles Schwab. I'm a land use attorney, a ten-year
planning commissioner of the city that I live in, although
I've been off for a while, but I wanted to make two points.
One, that you have broad discretion to sort of
interpret the code the way you want to interpret it, and I
think there's clear evidence here that Schwab is a bank. I
represent several relatively well known banks and I can
tell you that when we do their leases or other deals they
insist on having exclusives that preclude Charles Schwab
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and similar because the fact is they really have merged
into the same… You know, Wells Fargo offers investment
services, so does Bank of America, and basically they've
all turned into the same sort of type of use.
In terms of a good use, if you go to downtown
Walnut Creek there's a Capital One that's literally right
in the middle of downtown that's a very vibrant use and
this is a very similar use that Schwab is proposing, and I
think with the design they have and with the team they have
they will certainly bring customers and people to the area
and that's really what you want in retail today, something
that will activate the area.
I think Federal Realty, you've got to trust them.
They're great operators and I think they deserve your
support given how long they've been there and their
expertise.
With that, I'd like to turn over the rest of the
time to the members of the Schwab team.
RICHARD ZAC: This is Richard Zac again. I would
love to take Ms. Somers on a tour of our branch and to show
our modern approach to wealth management and banking and
how we integrate. We are the eleventh largest bank in the
country, ranked the highest in customer satisfaction. Our
clients and those in the community voted two years in a row
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the best service. We're a bank for investors. We do all of
the traditional banking services that a Wells Fargo or a
Bank of America would do.
The branch that we're proposing in Los Gatos, it
is because of our growth and our 20-year history with the
community; and the workshops, the community events, and the
hospitality events will attract a vibrancy to the downtown
area. Clients will come. We just don't have the space for
it right now in Los Gatos but in other areas across the
country we do, and these are fun opportunities for the
community to learn about investing in general and we hope
to provide that to the folks of Los Gatos and continue to
educate and provide resources to help people have better
outcomes.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Is that time?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: That's time.
CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, do Commissioners have
questions for the Applicant? Go ahead, Commissioner
Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I overlooked asking
earlier if the intention was to make any changes to the
exterior of the building. I thought I saw something about
that in the Staff package.
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JEFFREY KRESHEK: The changes to the building
would just be to accommodate the demise and make sure we
have appropriate storefronts, but we haven't looked at
making any specific architectural changes that I'm aware of
at this point.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR HANSSEN: I had a couple of questions. One
was did I hear correctly that this current space is going
to be split into two spaces and so there is going to be
another tenant to be sought for the other part?
JEFFREY KRESHEK: Correct. Charles Schwab would
be occupying roughly 5,000 square feet of the 8,000 square
feet that is the current Gap space, so there will be a
second storefront. I wasn't part of the project previous to
ten years ago, but if you look at the original plans it
looks as if it might have been two spaces at one point in
time.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. Thank you for that. And
then a question for the Schwab team. If I read the comments
that you made that were in our Staff Report, at this new
facility you'd have a coffee bar and so on and so forth. It
reminded me of I've gone into Chase bank and they have dog
biscuits in the lobby, but is that correct that it's going
to be set up for really encouraging walk-in traffic?
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RICHARD ZAC: Absolutely open. Everyone is
welcome. Coffee, the technology bar, folks available to
help as needed. In addition to that I mentioned community-
centered workshops on investing and how to manage your
finances and your banking better, hospitality events that
include things like the wine tasting and art. We want to
engage in the community as we've done. The idea is to be a
vibrant part of the downtown where we're attracting clients
into a vibrant location where we tear down the barriers
that often occur with banking and investing. Some folks
struggle with making great decisions and so we want to
provide the right resources and through these community
workshops and events to help them become more successful
over time.
CHAIR HANSSEN: And kind of a follow up question
to that. Is it typical in your evolving business model for
non-customers that have never done any business with you
before to just walk in?
RICHARD ZAC: Absolutely. I think that's the
unique thing about our brand: It does attract folks that
are wanting to just get started. In fact, we just recently
provided a mechanism for folks that have as little as five
dollars to invest or to put into a banking account to come
in and open an account with Schwab.
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CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. And then my last question
and then I'll ask if Commissioners have questions, will
there be an ATM at this location as mentioned as one of the
possible functions of one of your branches?
RICHARD ZAC: We don't currently have plans to
put an ATM there. Any Schwab client can use any bank in the
country. We are part of every ATM in the network, and if
there happens to be a charge to one of our clients to use
another ATM we will rebate that charge back to the client.
CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, thanks. Do other
Commissioners have questions for the Applicant? I'm not
seeing anyone with their hand raised. Okay, so then I will
close the public hearing and ask if Commissioners have any
additional questions for Staff, have comments on the
application, or wish to introduce a motion? And I would say
at this time, as I alluded to earlier, that I think it
would be best if the Commission made two different motions,
one for the determination of the zoning consistency—is
Schwab a bank?—and then a second motion about the CUP. So,
do any Commissioners have any additional questions or
comments? Vice Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Question for Ms. Renn. You
mentioned that Schwab is currently in a nonconforming
space. Is it nonconforming because it is not considered a
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bank and is on the ground floor storefront? What makes it
nonconforming?
MONICA RENN: Great question. When they came in—
as one of the speakers indicated, they've been with us for
over 20 years—they came in as an office use. At that time
office was allowed on the ground floor. Since then office
has not been allowed on the ground floor, so it becomes
essentially what we call legal nonconforming.
When they leave that space there will be a six-
month period where it can be backfilled with another office
use, and if it does not get backfilled with another office
use in that six months then the use would revert to never
allowing ground floor office there again.
The timeline that I wrote down, and I'm sure you
probably heard this as well, is that it was incorporated as
a bank in 2003 well after they were already established in
Los Gatos, so we never changed their use as the town, we
always just considered them an office use, but when they
came to us about 18 months ago they said, "We're really a
bank, and here's why."
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR HANSSEN: I'll make a comment that as far
as the determination of whether they're a bank, I haven't
banked at Schwab but we do have some accounts at Chase, and
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when we go in the branch on Los Gatos Boulevard, as I was
mentioning they have water bowls and dog biscuits in the
lobby where the ATM is, the tellers are all the way at the
back of the branch, and then when you walk in there are
seating areas where you can wait to talk to a banker, and
this is the business that they're really trying to promote
is that kind of thing where you're interacting with bankers
and asking questions and everything like that.
I'll add also that we also do some banking at
Wells Fargo. We went to Wells Fargo recently, I had to do
something inside the branch, which is unusual for me, but
when I was there there was actually a line going around the
corner waiting to go in the bank. There were some people
that wanted to go a teller but other ones that were waiting
to talk to a banker and they were told that they had a 45-
minute wait to talk to a banker.
So, I'm not hearing anything about the Schwab
business model that would tell me that they're not a bank.
I think that that's kind of where things are evolving to
and I agree with all the comments about online banking,
that the kind of things that are focusing their business on
and their interactions are changing, so as far as that I
would feel comfortable saying that they were a bank.
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And then I'll also comment a little bit on the
use. Now that I heard that the use is being split into two
different uses I feel somewhat less concern about putting
this use there, knowing that there is going to be something
else there as well, because it is a very important space.
Vice Chair Janoff, it looked like you had your hand up.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: I too have no issue with
determining that this is in fact a bank. I did some
research online, I think the evidence presented before us
is pretty clear on that, so I don't have a problem with
that.
And I agree, hearing that it's only roughly half
of that 9,000 square foot space makes me feel a lot better
about what its impact would be should we approve it.
But the other thing that strikes me, we're
talking a lot in the General Plan Advisory Committee about
neighborhood-serving commercial districts. Now, this is the
downtown, it's the beloved downtown, but it still has
neighborhoods to serve, and so it strikes me that it would
not be inappropriate to locate a bank that's in proximity
to both employees and business owners as well as residents
nearby. They are already a presence in town, they're
already a ground floor—although nonconforming—presence in
town, and when you think about cities, when you travel and
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you do business and you see banks, you see banks amid
retail a lot of places around the world, a lot of places
where we live, so I don't have an issue with making that
finding as well.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. Commissioner Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I wonder if Staff could
help us understand the policy behind making banks available
on first floors only with a Conditional Use Permit? Is
there some logic to that or is it just historical?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: It's definitely historical,
definitely predates my 20-plus years here with the Town. I
think it probably goes along the lines of what Commissioner
Janoff was speaking about, that banks can be helpful to the
vibrancy of a downtown and to the neighboring residential
districts. The mechanism the Town put in place—I couldn't
even tell you when this went into place, it's been here
since I started—probably was okay, we don't want to have
all banks, so let's have a Conditional Use Permit process
so that the Planning Commission can carefully consider
these on a case-by-case basis and determine if it's
appropriate.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Does that answer your question,
Commissioner Barnett? Commissioner Tavana.
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COMMISSIONER TAVANA: I'm still struggling. I
know you can do banking activities with certain Charles
Schwabs. I guess I'll ask my question for Staff, and maybe
this is for the folks with Charles Schwab, but can you
actually deposit a check or withdraw money at this
location? To me, that seems like a standard banking
activity, so I guess will any of those activities be
available on the corner here at this proposed location?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: I’m not sure if Mr. Mullin has
that information, but that would have been a great question
for the Applicant and maybe Ms. Renn. If Mr. Mullin doesn't
have that information, Ms. Renn may have some additional
information.
SEAN MULLIN: I think Ms. Renn has much more
background with discussing this with the Applicant, so I'll
default to her.
MONICA RENN: Unfortunately, I can't answer those
questions. We did talk about those questions at great
length with them. We talked about the ATM fees; we talked
about a lot of those different pieces. And it looks like
the attorney has his hand raised. I know that they did have
some input on different models that they could use if they
were asked to do so.
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TOWN ATTORNEY SCHULTZ: It's been a while, but my
understanding is that you would be able to deposit checks,
you'd be able to have a checking account, a saving account,
you'd be able to deposit your work check there, but no,
there would be no cash onsite either through the ATM or
being able to come in to obtain cash.
DIRECTOR PAULSON: And should the Chair wish to
just open up the public hearing for that specific question,
we could also do that if that would help Mr. Tavana.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Why don't we do that? Because I
mean we only have four of us, so I want the Commissioners
to have their questions answered. So, let's go ahead and
open up the public hearing to answer Commissioner Tavana's
question.
DIRECTOR PAULSON: So, Mr. Zac, you can go ahead
and answer that question.
RICHARD ZAC: Thank you for the question. Yes,
every traditional banking service is a service that we will
provide: checking, bill pay, ATM, check deposits. The only
aspect that we will not deal with is cash, so you wouldn't
be able to walk into this branch and remove cash. It's our
view that modern wealth management is focused…
(Mr. Zac's audio goes silent.)
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DIRECTOR PAULSON: Sorry, I just pushed the wrong
button for Mr. Zac, so I'm going to push the right button.
Mr. Zac, I cut you off there; if you can jump back on.
RICHARD ZAC: Mr. Paulson, like you, I think some
of the best things I say is when I'm on mute.
But thank you for the question. I was saying that
we provide all of the traditional banking services that
you'd expect: depositing a check right in the branch as
well as all the electronic methods to transfer and move
money around through a debit card, Apple Pay, Venmo; all of
that is available. We feel our vision for the future is
that cash is not a feature, not an area that we want to
focus our growth on, so that would be the one thing that we
would not transact in the branch in Los Gatos. No cash, but
everything else you can imagine in traditional banking
services.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: Would I be able to get a
cashier's check if I were to walk inside?
RICHARD ZAC: We would be able to get you a
cashier's check the next day. We would order it in the
branch and we would have it sent to you the next day. It
would be processed offsite. We could give you a Schwab
check in a same sense; we could have that sent to you.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: Thank you.
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CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, so we will go ahead
and close the public hearing again and see if Commissioners
have any additional questions, and I'd like to encourage to
at least get going on the motion about whether or not
they're a bank, and then we can tackle the other. Vice
Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: I don't really have a
structure for it, but I would move that I can find that
Charles Schwab Bank is a bank.
CHAIR HANSSEN: And do we have a second for the
motion?
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Second the motion.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Seconded.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Second? Okay. All right, so we
have a motion and a second. Do Commissioners have any
additional comments before we take a roll call vote? And
there are only four of us, so it will go pretty quickly.
I think I made my comments earlier. I'm going to
be supporting the motion. I can find that they're a bank
given what I just talked about with some of the other
things I deal with, so I'm comfortable with that
determination.
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Do any Commissioners want to make any other
comments? Not seeing any. All right, so I will start with
Commissioner Tavana.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: I'm going to say no.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Yes.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Yes.
CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well. Okay, so
it passes 3-1, and are there any appeal rights on this part
of the decision?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: There are no appeal rights for
that portion of the decision. This is just an
interpretation of the determination that it's a bank.
CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, so that being the
case, it passes 3-1 that the Commission in general believes
that they are in fact a bank, so then we must turn our
attention to the Conditional Use Permit.
I would want to ask Staff a question right now
though. How does this work with the fact that they're
splitting the use into two, and what does the current
Conditional Use Permit say about the Gap? Is it general in
terms of retail, or is it a retailer that does clothing?
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What are we changing the Conditional Use Permit to and
from?
SEAN MULLIN: The Gap doesn't have a Conditional
Use Permit because it's retail and it's allowed by right in
that site, so this would be a new Conditional Use Permit.
Your packet includes a floor plan showing the space that
would be applied to, and during plan check of the Building
Permit we would verify that that space was substantially
conforming to the space that was shown in your packet
tonight.
CHAIR HANSSEN: So, basically we're proposing a
Conditional Use Permit for roughly one-half of this current
space for them to operate a bank?
SEAN MULLIN: That's correct. It's shown on the
floor plan that they provided.
CHAIR HANSSEN: And then just for everyone's
education, so if for some reason things didn't work out for
Schwab and they had to vacate that space, the Conditional
Use Permit would be…it would be possible for another bank
to come in without action by the Town?
SEAN MULLIN: The answer is yes, and as long as
they agree to operate under the allowances of that use
permit and providing that they come in within I believe
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it's six months before the uses ceases, then it would be
allowed.
CHAIR HANSSEN: And then the Federal Realty
people also would have the opportunity to come back and
propose another use, it's just they would have to get a
different Conditional Use Permit, correct?
SEAN MULLIN: If the use permit were triggered,
if this space were to revert to retail, another use that's
allowed by right, then Federal Realty could just have a
lease and have a Use and Occupancy Certificate and a
business license for that new retailer in that example.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Because retail is allowed by
right, they wouldn't have to go through any more hurdles if
they needed to find a retail tenant for the space if it
didn't work out for Schwab?
SEAN MULLIN: That is correct.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, thank you for that. Do
other Commissioners have questions for Staff on this? Vice
Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: A question for Ms. Renn
again. Can you provide us roughly the vacancy percentage in
the downtown Commercial District, just in rough terms?
MONICA RENN: I don't have that off the top of my
head, I might have to come back with it, but I can tell you
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that roughly we're actually seeing more people coming in
than people leaving at this point, so while we do know that
Gap is leaving, the other half of this space does have an
approved CUP and I understand that Federal Realty does have
a tenant lined up for that, so we are seeing in general
more places becoming full than we are seeing becoming
vacant. So, while I don't know the rate, I can say that
it's getting better.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Thank you.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Anyone else have questions? Okay,
I'm going to make a comment.
One of the reasons I was asking all these
questions was I was trying to visualize as things continue
to evolve, you know, where might this go? And I'm going to
say that number one, I feel really comfortable with the
real estate owner, that they have a lot of experience, and
I take a lot of comfort in the fact that they have had this
property for 23 years in Los Gatos and they're not just
flipping properties and turning things around, so that
gives me some comfort.
The additional issue of the fact that the space
is being split in two, giving an opportunity to try
something else as well in this prime retail space, gives me
comfort.
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And then finally, I'll say that I had at one
point worked in financial services for seven years. I think
the financial services industry has made many, many
evolutions and is making a whole other one now in terms of
how they do business, and I do concur with Schwab's
assessment that things are way less focused on cash now and
they're much more focused online, and then your focus is
going to be on wealth management. And if it's true that
people that aren't their customers walk in as street
traffic when they're there, I think it could be a really
good use for the area, so I'm generally in support of the
CUP. So, let me see what the other Commissioners think.
Commissioner Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I had one concern, which
is the idea of a precedent, although maybe I'm being
technically correct because of the CUP requirement. But in
the very competitive banking industry I think it would be
bad if we had many, many competitive banks going into the
downtown area on the first floors. I don't have a good
answer for that though.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, so that's a concern?
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'll express it as a
concern.
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CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. All right, other
Commissioners? Vice Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: I think what makes me more
comfortable about thinking favorably about the application
is the property owner's desire to fill the space, and I
feel pretty confident if they had a retail tenant that made
sense or that they could attract—we've got a lot of salons,
you've got a lot of restaurants reducing number of retail—I
think if we could fill it with retail the property owner
probably would have.
With all due respect to Ms. Somers, I'm
sympathetic that we'd like to see more retail in that area
but I'm also thinking that, again, as I said, a
neighborhood-serving business does also make sense, and if
they can create vitality and add to the bustle of an area
and draw people that's good for the retail businesses too,
and we want to do whatever we can to make sure that they
stay as vital as possible, so I'm in favor of approving
this application.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Tavana.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: I'm going to have to say
I'm against this application for multiple reasons.
Number one, I don't believe it is a bank. You
can't do basic banking activities at this branch. While you
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can do wealth management and other consultation services it
seems like more of an office setting that it's going to be,
so that's number one.
Number two, they already have a good location on
Santa Cruz Avenue. I don't see why moving to Old Town will
make them any better. I think they can do a lot of what
they're doing at their current site, so I think it would be
a mistake to approve this.
I agree with Catherine Somers. I think we could
find something better for this location. Ms. Renn even said
that we're not losing tenants, we're actually increasing
tenants, and I think somebody will come along that will
better fit this space, so I will be voting no tonight.
Thank you.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Well, that's only if there's a
motion to approve it.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: Sorry, yeah. I'm against
the CUP.
CHAIR HANSSEN: All right, thank you. I think it
would be helpful maybe to try a motion, and as I asked
earlier, if it turns out that we vote 2-2, that is
tantamount to a denial, is that correct?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: That's correct.
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CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay. So, would someone like to
make a motion one way or the other? I think it's fine to
try and see where we go. Okay, not everyone at one time.
Vice Chair Janoff.
VICE CHAIR JANOFF: I'll make a motion. I move to
approve the Conditional Use Permit for a bank, Charles
Schwab Community Banking and Investment Services, on
property zoned C-2:LHP:PD located at 35 University Avenue;
APN 529-02-044; property owner SRI Old Town, LLC; Applicant
Amber DeMaglio. I can make the required findings for CEQA
and I can make the required findings for the Conditional
Use Permit.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, thank you for that, and do
we have a second?
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'll second the motion.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, so Commissioner Barnett
seconds the motion, and does anyone else want to make
comments before we take a vote on this matter? I think I
know where everyone stands. Okay, not seeing anyone. So, I
will start with Commissioner Barnett.
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: Yes.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Commissioner Tavana.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: No.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Vice Chair Janoff.
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VICE CHAIR JANOFF: Yes.
CHAIR HANSSEN: And I vote yes as well, so the
motion passes 3-1, and Director Paulson, do we have any
appeal rights for this motion?
DIRECTOR PAULSON: Yes, thank you, Chair. Anyone
who is not satisfied with the decision of the Planning
Commission can file an appeal. The appeal forms are
available online. There is a fee for filing the appeal and
the appeal must be filed within ten days.
CHAIR HANSSEN: Thank you very much for that. And
thank you to the Commissioners for all of your comments and
stuff. A lot of times, especially with the downtown, these
discussions on CUPs are often difficult because there are
people that have really strong feelings one way or the
other, so I'm glad we were able to talk about this and get
a lot of comments out, and I appreciate everyone's
feedback.
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