09 Attachment 6 - January 8, 2020 Planning Commission Verbatim MinutesLOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 1/8/2020
Item #3, Town Code Amendment Application A-19-010
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Matthew Hudes, Chair
Melanie Hanssen, Vice Chair
Mary Badame
Jeffrey Barnett
Kendra Burch
Kathryn Janoff
Reza Tavana
Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Robert Schultz
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(619) 541-3405
ATTACHMENT 6
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR HUDES: The next item is actually a number
of changes to Town Code Amendments, Application A-19-010.
Of course this is Town Wide and the Applicant is the Town
of Los Gatos.
This is to consider amendments to Chapter 29,
Zoning Regulations of the Town Code regarding land use and
economic vitality streamlining. I was going to suggest a
process for this, that we take the Staff Report from Mr.
Mullin and we take any comments from the public, but then
as we consider this there seem to be possibly four distinct
items, and so I'm going to go through them in sequence and
get a vote on each of those as we go through. I think it
will be clearer that way rather than mixing things up.
We'll do the whole thing and the Staff Report and then the
public comments. So, Mr. Mullin.
SEAN MULLIN: Thank you. The Town Council has an
adopted strategic priority that promotes community vitality
and encourages land use streamlining efforts. Staff has
been working with the Council and Council Policy Committee
to identify and streamline many of the business-related
processes to reduce the associated time and costs. Five
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temporary resolutions were adopted by the Council and were
set to sunset in December of 2019. On October 1st the
Council voted to memorialize the streamlining efforts and
adopted a resolution on November 5th extending the temporary
streamlining efforts until such time that the Town Code
amendments may be adopted.
Before you tonight is consideration of the Town
Code Amendments necessary to memorialize these streamlining
efforts. The code amendments are related to allowing new
formula retail businesses in the downtown C-2 zone without
approval of the CUP, Conditional Use Permit; allowing the
DRC to approve certain CUP modifications for existing
restaurants in the downtown C-2 zone; to approve CUPs for
new restaurants town wide; approving minor exterior
modifications to commercial buildings at the Building
Permit level; and allowing the DRC to approve CUPs for new
group classes in the downtown C-2 zone. A thorough
discussion of each topic is included in your Staff Report.
In conclusion, the Staff recommends that Planning
Commission review the proposed amendments and forward a
recommendation to the Town Council by taking the actions
outlined on pages 7 and 8 of the Staff Report. I'd like to
note that Monica Renn, the Town's Economic Vitality Manager
who ushered the temporary streamlining efforts through the
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process, is here tonight and is available to answer any
questions.
This concludes Staff's presentation and we are
available to answer any questions.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Questions? I had one kind of
big question and that is that actually I was a little
baffled at the original paragraph that explains what's
going on here. So, to be clear, memorializing these
streamlining efforts means making them permanent, is that
correct?
SEAN MULLIN: That's correct. Permanent by
changing the Town Code.
CHAIR HUDES: And so why is there also the
language that says, "Until such time that Town Code
Amendments may be adopted."?
SEAN MULLIN: There were two separate actions by
the Council.
Because these resolutions were sunsetting, or
expiring, in December of 2019 the first action was to vote
to see if they wanted to memorialize these, how they wanted
to act on each of these. They voted to memorialize them.
The second component on November 5th was to come
back with a resolution which hadn't been prepared for the
first meeting, and that resolution then extended those
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temporary resolutions until such time that the Town Code
could be updated.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, thank you. I'm going to move
to public input at this point and then we'll come back for
more Staff questions, then we'll go kind of one-by-one. So,
I don't have any cards. Oh, I do. Bob Caya, McCarthy Ranch.
BOB CAYA: Good evening, my name is Bob Caya and
I represent McCarthy Ranch. As most know, we have a vested
interest in Los Gatos from a personal, business, and
property perspective. By way of the Planning Commission,
Town Council, and Staff's leadership we have seen
noticeable progress toward the revitalization of downtown
Los Gatos and are here tonight to full-heartedly encourage
the Planning Commission to recommend to Council that the
Town permanently adopt all of the currently temporary
resolutions before you this evening.
To boot, I'd like to provide three specific
personal examples of these resolutions working toward the
Town's strategic initiative of being open for business.
One, the minor exterior modifications to
commercial buildings resolution allowed us to renovate our
existing Highway 9 properties, and upon completion of
construction we will be able to re-tenant them with first
class tenants who will collectively add to the strong
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fabric that is our community as well as provide a warm and
welcome entrance to the downtown. This was something that
was proving to be economically non-feasible prior to the
passage of this temporary resolution.
Two, the new restaurant CUPs to be heard at the
DRC resolution has directly benefited one of our
perspective tenants at that same property, a first-rate Bay
Area local business who has wanted to come to Los Gatos for
some time but been gun shy given what they perceived as
overly restrictive regulations. Based on this and other
resolutions we were able to convince them that Los Gatos is
heading in a positive policy direction and they should make
the move. They obliged and pending all necessary approvals
will be calling Los Gatos home soon.
Three, the restaurant CUP modifications at the
DRC resolution allowed Rootstock to modify its existing CUP
so we may offer live music twice weekly, which has been
widely well received. We would not have been able to do
that economically as it would have otherwise cost us about
$15,000.
As we feel these examples show, these resolutions
are bringing real results and will continue to encourage
positive developments for the betterment of our town should
they be permanently enacted.
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We appreciate the Planning Commission's
consideration of this item and encourage a resounding yes
recommendation to the Town Council. Thank you for your
time.
CHAIR HUDES: Thank you. Any questions? I had
one. You were referring to exterior modifications of
commercial business on Highway 9. Which ones were those?
BOB CAYA: We own the corner old Postal Mate, the
old liquor store there, the large office building, and then
the old insurance building there, which are now under
construction.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, so they are now under
construction but they haven't been completed yet?
BOB CAYA: Yes.
CHAIR HUDES: Thank you. Would anyone else like
to comment on this? Okay, so I'll now close the public
portion of the public hearing and we'll consider each of
the four individually.
Let's first talk about formula retail business in
the downtown C-2 zone. This is specifically talking about
formula retail in downtown C-2. Are there questions of
Staff or comments on this? Vice Chair Hanssen.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I just want to make sure I
understand it. The temporary measure passed by Council was
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to allow over an 18-month period up to five formula retail,
but what we're being asked to consider now is to allow
unlimited formula retail as long as it's not greater than
6,000 square feet, is that correct?
SEAN MULLIN: The first part of your question was
that Council was allowing up to five to come in before
Staff had to bring the item back for review with the
Council, not necessarily stop the resolution but give them
an opportunity to review the impact. The second part of
your question is the code change that's before you tonight
would make that permanent. There would not be a cap on the
number of formula retail in downtown under 6,000 square
feet.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Right, so not that it would
happen, but if 20 formula retailers wanted to come into the
C-2 zone and they were under 6,000 square feet, no one
would be looking at it?
SEAN MULLIN: In theory, yes, that is possible.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay.
CHAIR HUDES: As a follow up to that, I am having
a little hard time with the term memorializing because what
was approved was five in 18 months, so we're not
memorializing five every 18 months, correct? What we're
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making permanent is unlimited number every month in
perpetuity, is that right?
SEAN MULLIN: Correct, until… If there becomes a
concern Council could direct Staff to look into a future
code change, but yes, the answer to your question is yes.
CHAIR HUDES: But that's what the law would be is
that we could take any number of them?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: That is correct, and if at any
time Council felt that there would too many they could
always put a moratorium on them and make changes to it, but
this change would not have any cap or any review of formula
retail.
CHAIR HUDES: If I could maybe just follow up to
that since it seems to be a pretty dramatic change, what
has been the outreach, what's been the reaction? We heard
from someone who's a developer. Probably there are
landlords that have opinions but there are also key
independent retailers in this town, some of whom have been
here a very long time and are struggling. What's been the
outreach and what's been the reaction from them?
SEAN MULLIN: With this portion, and I'm going to
defer to Monica in one moment, with this portion the
application where planning has taken the lead the outreach
has been through social media blasts and posting our normal
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methods. Monica has done additional outreach that I'd like
to let her summarize.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, thank you.
MONICA RENN: Monica Renn, Economic Vitality
Manager. Really at a high level what we've seen is a big
change in how people shop. We've seen a big change in how
tenants will tenant a space: the size, the merchandise, the
location. We did extensive work with the brokerage
community, with the property owners, with the businesses
themselves, and all of them are actually very much in favor
of this. What we see now is something like 12 vacancies on
North Santa Cruz, so if there were really a line of formula
retailers that were looking to infiltrate or to take over
downtown, I don't think we would see that vacancy.
There is a formula to almost every formula
retail, for lack of a better word, as to where they want to
locate, so just dropping into a center of a main street
doesn't necessarily fit almost ever. We're seeing Williams-
Sonoma close, we all know that. We have potentially one to
two, maybe three, of our formula retailers that we have now
that will be closing in the next four months. Those have
not been made public but we do know that. We know that
based on market trends, we know that based on our
information coming forward.
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So, having all that information and working with
the Council and working with all the stakeholders what
we've found is hey, let's be a little more dynamic, let's
try to open up the ability to see what can happen. We do
know Sephora is coming in, that's a new formula retail in a
new location, and we know that's going to bring a lot of
action, that's going to bring a lot of people who are… We
call it retail synergy, so a lot of other people who want
to be located around that are now going to look to Old
Town.
So, I would say the outreach has been extensive
and the support of it has also been very favorable.
CHAIR HUDES: Could you maybe comment on the… I
know the developers and the landlords, yes, but we do have
some independent retailers that have been here a long time
that are struggling. Have they participated? Have you heard
from them that they're in support of formula retail coming
into the downtown?
MONICA RENN: In conjunction with the Chamber
I've sent emails out, probably three to four emails,
regarding every single one of these issues before the Staff
Report is written to go to Council to invite them to the
Council meeting and to follow up with what the action was,
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understanding that independent business owners are very
busy and they don't necessarily have the time.
The ones who have come to our meetings at the
Chamber have all been in support of this. Independent
retailers know that their business alone does not bring the
masses, so they can appreciate that when there is a draw,
be it a formula retail, be it a restaurant, be it some sort
of service business, when there is a draw they are going to
do better, so all of those that I have talked to, they have
all been in support of this.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, thank you. Other questions?
Yes, Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: I don't have a question but
just a couple of comments.
In regard to, for example, Sephora coming into
the Old Town, I have to wonder about the impact that it's
going to have on a similar existing business that's been
there for at least five years, and that would be
Bluemercury, so I'm kind of worried about some of these
formula stores. In fact, to me the CUP process allows
community participation as to the needs and types of
businesses that would shape and serve the Town and I kind
of worry about a saturation of formula businesses in that
it would take away from the uniqueness of our town, and to
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that respect, even though some of this is to streamline
costs and time, typically formula can absorb the cost of
the CUP, so those are some comments I have in regard to
formula.
CHAIR HUDES: Thank you. Commissioner Tavana.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: I was going to echo some of
those opinions as well but I guess I would say over an 18-
month period only three new formula retailers have taken
action so far. Can you comment on who those three are?
MONICA RENN: Correct. Actually, what we saw was
an interesting dynamic of where kind of formula replaced
where formula was because there is a place that they want
to be. Really the new one is Sephora, and then the other
one would be AT&T, because at one point the Walking Company
was considered one of our new ones, but then they moved
into where the Gymboree left and closed, so in turn they
replaced like for like, and I would just say a couple of
things.
One is both businesses that were mentioned by the
commissioner are both formula retail. There's another
makeup store two doors down from the other. Oftentimes you
will find that they purposely cluster together because
something you can't get at one you get at the other. It's
no shock that Athleta joined our community shortly after
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lululemon did; in another community they actually share a
common wall because they know that the market is the same,
and so a lot of times that competition is healthy and it
actually creates a stronger shopping base for all of the
stores involved.
Maybe that's not the case all the time of course.
If there's a business model that's not strong and a
stronger competitor comes in we can see that one closes,
but if it is a formula they have that kind of greater role
above them making those decisions and making the choices
based on their market area and based on their shopping
area.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Yes, Commissioner Tavana.
COMMISSIONER TAVANA: I guess as a follow up, is
there a procedure in place to determine what formula
retailers are acceptable or not acceptable, or who's
allowed in and who's not allowed in? What does that process
look like?
MONICA RENN: Sure. There is not something in
place for that and the CUP process that's in place for
formula retail is actually not there for us to choose or to
allow a specific business, it's really about the use. So,
the discussion is is this allowed, is this use appropriate?
It's not about a specific company, and so we can't make
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those decisions based on the company, and that's why we
find when we create the CUPs they have to be broad enough
that another company can replace them because they do run
with the land.
CHAIR HUDES: Thank you. Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Are we in discussion?
CHAIR HUDES: Yeah.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Okay. It strikes me that
vacancy is worse for the Town than bringing in a retail
that may be a large formula retail. I'm excited about
Sephora coming in, but it seems to be that it's an
experiment worth trying because the Town is going to
benefit from a more active and vibrant shopping experience.
I think one of the terms used in the report had to do with
restaurants are limited in some ways because if you're a
town of only restaurants you'd have a busy town at lunch
and dinner and then the rest of the time it's sort of quiet
possibly, so you need to have that balance and purpose for
people to be in town longer. I think the dwell time or the
amount of time people are staying and shopping and enjoying
and taking advantage of what the Town provides is important
and I would support this change for that reason. I think an
occupied town is a healthier town and some of those big
draw companies are really going to help.
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CHAIR HUDES: Vice Chair Hanssen.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I was going to say I really
appreciated Ms. Renn's comments; it gave me a lot of
confidence. We had previously a couple of years ago been
asked to view a presentation on the future of retail and it
was really dark and dismal in terms of what's going to
happen, and for many, many, many years we've had our
businesses complaining about how hard it is to change their
business or do things in town, so that being the case I
think there is one thing that is sort of a checkpoint and
it's this 6,000 square feet thing, so for that reason
you're not going to see Walmart wanting to be in town, or
if they do there's going to be a checkpoint to evaluate it.
Under 6,000 square feet, I think that's going to help. I'm
kind of asking Ms. Renn, I think the kinds of retail, the
size thing, will be a good indicator?
MONICA RENN: You're correct, and there was kind
of a caveat in that original resolution that you of course
could recommend to the Council that continued and that was
that if a company came in and asked to join several spaces
that it would need a Conditional Use Permit and it would
need review, so for example like you're saying, if a large
company came in a said hey, we want to take over this
entire building and make all of these suites a Walmart or
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whatever it is, they're probably going to hit above that
6,000 square foot, but there are some things if you're
feeling some discomfort there that you could certainly
bring to the Council's attention.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I don't know if it's fair to
say that that's the collective will of the Town to not have
Walmart here, but it is a whole different kind of place
than a lot of the places we've had in Los Gatos, so I am
comfortable with the 6,000 square feet and what I heard you
say is we could add in if some really very large retailer
was trying to come into town without having any review of
it, that we could ask to put in if they tried to put
multiple spaces together, is that right?
MONICA RENN: That's correct, and I think it's
important to note that we often do that internally. If
there is something that we really feel like this is out of
the norm, we have a company asking to all of a sudden take
over an entire block, Staff would not be comfortable
approving that; I think that is something we would
definitely bring to the bodies.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR HUDES: Maybe I had one comment. I don't
know very much about retail; I'm not even a very good
shopper, but I have been around the town a while and I do
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remember there was a lot of controversy about this subject
when the CUP for formula retail was enacted and so I'm kind
of shocked that we haven't had any reaction here to it,
that we haven't even had a single item. I also am thinking
that, myself, I didn't really even understand the language
very well in what went out, so the memorializing, what does
that mean? The fact that we're talking about not
memorializing the five every 18 months but we're
memorializing something different or we're enacting
something different I felt was a little bit unclear, so I
actually think that my opinion is it would be hasty to pass
this on at this point without making sure that people have
had the opportunity to weigh in on this as it was such a
hot topic a while ago.
So, my feeling is that I'd like to leave this one
open on a continuance with maybe better wording of what
we're doing in the outreach and make sure that we have the
opportunity to hear from people on this one. That's just my
opinion on this. I think anything to do with the business
and the vitality of the downtown is something that I'm very
passionate about, but I also am kind of very surprised that
we haven't had that reaction and I wonder if it may have
had something to do with the language and the clarity of
what we're doing to do.
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Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I in the last year, based on
some job type related issues, have done a lot of work
researching retail and where retail is going, how other
jurisdictions are now adapting to that, and I'm probably
going to be the first one to tell you here I am
enthusiastically behind what we're doing.
Retail is changing drastically. It's no longer
necessarily completely about going into a store even to
buy. Oftentimes if you go, you look, you like it, you may
go somewhere else and then buy that item online. So, what's
happening is as we all know our land prices are not going
down. Smaller companies are having a very hard time meeting
lease costs or other such issues, and I realize that
financially that's not our purview to worry about, but what
it does lead to is you see vacancies, and the more
vacancies you have the less people come into town and it
becomes a cycle that is actually building on itself.
By lessening this restriction—and just so
everyone knows, Los Gatos is known for being notoriously
difficult for retail—so by backing off a bit on this… And
6,000 square feet is not very big, so we're not inviting in
a West Elm or a Home Depot. These are smaller businesses
anyway, but they're businesses that have the financial
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backing to be able to be slow for the first few months that
they're here, but their names are recognizable enough that
when people come to go shop at that place they will then
continue walking. They'll see something else, a store that
they've never heard of down the street, and again that
becomes a cycle, that builds on itself. If this was just
open-ended and anybody could come in at any size I would
not be for this, but when you really look at what it takes
to build a store and just basic code requirements, what has
to be in that store to support it, we are not talking about
large stores, but what we are talking about is not going up
and down Santa Cruz and having 12 vacancies. That's
terrible.
So, I think that this is well overdue. I think
that other developers are going to start seeing this and
begin speaking to their clients who are looking in our
neighboring jurisdictions, which we're seeing very alive
and vibrant—like you said, not just at dinner or lunch but
are vibrant—and they're going to start suggesting to their
clients, you know what? Los Gatos has got some programs
going. You should come talk to them, see what you think,
and I think we're going to see a vast difference in this
town.
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I understand what you're saying about some of the
wording, but I don't know that that… I feel like we could
hammer that out right here and still send that on with
confidence.
CHAIR HUDES: I don't have the expertise to
really know, but I do know that we have some folks who have
been very loyal to the downtown and have operated
businesses for 20 years and I would hate to see this go in
and them be surprised by this, because these are some of
the same people who were opposed to the formula retail
coming in previously and maybe they're enlightened now and
maybe they're going to perfectly fine with all of that, but
I feel like we owe something to them in terms of
communication, and I'm not saying for months, I'm talking
about to do a clear description of what we're proposing
here, because I think the language has been confusing so I
don't think we have anyone here who understood it and I am
suggesting that we reword and we elicit whatever comments
that we can get from some of our folks who we know have
devoted their lives to operating retail businesses
downtown.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: In this dialogue do you guys
mind if I just ask one quick question of Ms. Renn? Did you
meet with Catherine at the Chamber? I know that she has a
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couple people who work for her that oftentimes when things
are in front of us that deal with the downtown they go
door-to-door and talk to people. Are you aware if this took
place for this issue?
MONICA RENN: I have gone door-to-door and talked
about all of these issues. I have gone to Chamber meetings.
I have summarized this in very short bullet points, knowing
that independent businesses don't have a ton of time to
read these Staff Reports, so it hasn't just been hey, check
out this attachment and let me know what you think, it's
been tonight is this, this is what it means for us. I think
this is why the Council did the 18-months or five, because
if there was that reluctance we have gone almost two years
and have not seen that flood, and that was really what the
conversation was at the Council is that was the test
period, that was the period, you know, do the neighbors
know, do they not know? During that time I have been in
various arenas sharing this information and have tailored
that language to match my audience, so it hasn't just been
passing out resolutions, because I do understand that those
can be difficult and they don't make sense when you're
trying to do 18 things at once; I've tried to really be
tailoring that information.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Thank you.
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CHAIR HUDES: Thanks. Yes, Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I think both points are
really important, but I wonder whether we can accomplish
the same objective of making the language that goes to the
community from these bodies clearer by recommending that
that happen when this goes to the Town Council, so before
it's agendized on the next Town Council meeting recommend
that there be communication from these bodies that is
adopting the clear language as is suggested.
I wouldn't like to see it held up but I would
like to see as many persons who are interested in
participating in the public process, we don't have many
tonight, and if it is that important to the residents of
the Town then give them the opportunity, and they have that
opportunity before the Town Council. I believe it
accomplishes the same objective without holding things up.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, thank you. Yes, Vice Chair
Hanssen.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I was going to say I'm very
much with Commissioner Burch on this and I don't think we
should hold this up, especially since we had the 18-month
trial period, but I also agree with Commissioner Janoff. I
think just like we're doing with the General Plan Advisory
Committee, we're looking at the possibility of growing
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2,000 units and they're putting communications out there
saying come and voice you opinions on how we do this. I
think as long as there's some communication that goes out,
because I think it got a little bit lost with the up to
five and all this stuff, just be clear in the
communications—and I'm not saying hold it up—that we are
proposing to allow any formula retailer up to 6,000 square
feet to operate in our town if they have the will, then I
think it's fine. But I also feel like Ms. Renn has done a
fabulous job of reaching out to everyone as well so that
the only thing it would just need is a little clarity of
language.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Other comments?
COMMISSIONER BARNETT: I'll just briefly chime
in, if I may. I've been in Los Gatos since 1974 and it was
a charming village with uniqueness at that time, but I
think given the economic pressure now with land values that
it's difficult to fight the market and in some form or
fashion that we're going to have to accept more formula
retail in the Town.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. It's suggested that we take
each of these and do a vote on them and then we can bundle
that into a final recommendation, is that okay?
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So, on this item we would need a motion. Yes,
Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Are we just going to make a
motion to adopt the revision to the formula retail
businesses in downtown C-2 zone?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: It's a recommendation to
(inaudible).
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Recommendation, I'm sorry. A
recommendation of approval to Council to adopt the formula
retail business in the downtown C-2 zone changes. Do I need
to add any more to that? Okay.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Do we have a second? Yes,
Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Second.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, thank you. Any comments
before we vote? I unfortunately will not be able to support
the motion because I have to kind of vote on what's before
me, and what's before me is something that I don't think
informed the public enough about the issue for what I'm
dealing with right now. I do support the idea of getting
more input. I am not opposed to formula retail in the
downtown even as it's been proposed, I just feel like
what's before me hasn't had enough clear notice for people
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who I believe reacted in a different way in a different
time, so for that reason I won't be supporting the motion.
Anyone else want to make comments? Okay, I'll
call the question. All in favor? Okay. Opposed. So, it
passes 5-2 and I think you've got the commissioners voting,
so thank you.
Yes, Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Can we take like a five-
minute break?
CHAIR HUDES: Yes, we may. Thank you.
(INTERMISSION)
CHAIR HUDES: Let's get started again. The next
item in the Town wide code amendment application is
restaurants and CUP modifications at the DRC level, which
was a temporary 18-month resolution to allow current
restaurants to modify their CUP at the DRC. Many of them
chose to modify their use permit to allow them to
participate in the pilot parklet program and now new CUPs
to be heard at the DRC and suspension of Ordinance 2021, so
this would I guess suspend or eliminate 2021, is that
correct?
SEAN MULLIN: This change would eliminate 2021.
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CHAIR HUDES: Right, okay. Any comments or
observations about how that's worked for restaurants?
Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Well, I work downtown and I
can definitely say that the outdoor dining has been a big
plus. Live music has also enhanced the ambiance, so I think
the CUP modification at a DRC level for existing
restaurants has been phenomenal, so I'm a big supporter of
that.
CHAIR HUDES: Great, other comments?
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I had a question.
CHAIR HUDES: Yeah.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I just want to make sure I
know what we would be recommending. Basically what we're
saying is that there is no need for any more 18-month
period, that basically all new restaurant CUPs as well as
modifications to existing CUPs could go through the DRC?
SEAN MULLIN: Correct, they are eligible to go
through the DRC.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay.
CHAIR HUDES: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Is there anything that would
make them need to come to the Planning Commission,
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something that you feel that DRC would not cover in this
scope?
JOEL PAULSON: Joel Paulson, Community
Development Director. Under the current regulations there
is nothing that comes to mind, however, with any
application we always have the ability to forward that to
the Planning Commission should there be an issue or
concern. As Ms. Renn mentioned before, if someone came in
and wanted to merge a block of suites and turn it into a
big disco/nightclub/restaurant, that's probably going to be
problematic, so we would look at those things on a case-by-
case basis, but there are no specific restrictions in the
ordinance.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, other questions on
restaurants? I would add my comment that it seems as though
we've stimulated some innovation in the restaurants so
there's a wider variety I would say, and not just of
cuisines but also of styles of dining, and saved some
locations that looked like they had been struggling for
some time and now they seem to be pretty vibrant and I
think we even have some ones that are sought out over a
pretty wide regional basis, so I think that things seem to
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be working pretty well there and I think we're getting the
kind of vibrancy and vitality that we need to have.
There will always be a question of do you go too
far with restaurants, and that's probably the bigger
concern, so if there were a situation where we are becoming
a Saratoga, which is only restaurants, what would the
mechanism be for moving that back and dealing with that
situation?
SEAN MULLIN: As previously discussed with the
formula retail, the Council could put a moratorium on it,
they could pass a resolution to change the process
temporarily so that it could be studied, so if there was a
concern coming up the Council could address it.
CHAIR HUDES: Great. Vice Chair Hanssen.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I think you already asked
the question but so a business wants to come in and change
the retail to restaurant, they don't have to get a CUP for
that or they can do it through the DRC, because it's a
change from one kind of CUP to another, so it could be done
at the DRC?
SEAN MULLIN: It would still require a CUP but
instead of the hearing body typically being the Planning
Commission and Council it could go to the DRC. The scenario
you're discussing, a concern was raised with that in
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Resolution 2021, which all this gets alleviated by making
these changes.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, that's fine, and as
long as I'm speaking I wanted to say I generally don't see
a problem with this at all. I mean, the only concern
possibly would be the one where we end up having more
restaurants than retail, but it seems like that can be
checked by the DRC.
SEAN MULLIN: Ultimately that would be Council if
there was an issue. At the Staff level and the DRC level
CUPs would continue to be processed and if they met the
requirements they would be moved forward. If the Council
noted a concern of an oversaturation of that particular
use, they could put a moratorium in and then study what
changes are necessary.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Good. Thank you.
JOEL PAULSON: I would just add for the Planning
Commission that the Staff will continue to maintain a list
of these various changes and the number of businesses that
come in under the new provisions and should they start
spiking we would take that question back to Council even if
they had not called that out before. There is no hard and
fast number but that's something that Staff would have to
look at and will continue to monitor.
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CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Other comments on this? Since
I'm not carrying my weight here on motions I'll move to
recommend to the Council the we memorialize the item on
restaurants. Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Second.
CHAIR HUDES: Discussion? Okay, I'll call the
question. All in favor? It passes unanimously.
So, let's move on to exterior modifications, and
these are minor exterior modifications to commercial
buildings, to allow this to be processed as building
permits rather than Architecture and Site applications at
the DRC. Any questions of Staff on this? Yes, Commissioner
Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: The question that comes to
mind is, this is broadly commercial but how are historic
commercial buildings handled with these proposed
modifications?
SEAN MULLIN: Any exterior change to a historic
commercial building would continue to require the Historic
Preservation Committee's review. It could be done at the
building permit level or preliminarily prior to the
building permit submittal.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: But there's sort of a full
stop, check with the…
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SEAN MULLIN: That's correct.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Great, thank you.
CHAIR HUDES: Question for Staff. Has there been
anything close on this where you were thinking maybe we
should take this to Planning Commission, or did these go
through pretty much as you expected?
JOEL PAULSON: We haven't had any that have risen
to that level yet. Not to say that that won't happen
because everyone always likes to push the envelope, but the
current ones that we have, they meet the requirements. It's
façade changes, material changes, window and door changes,
things like that, so some of them will have different
architectural look and feel but it has not risen to a level
where we thought Planning Commission needed to weigh in on
it.
CHAIR HUDES: So, it sounds like the most
extensive one of those might have been McCarthy Ranch on
the corner of North Santa Cruz in the testimony that we
had.
JOEL PAULSON: That's probably the one that has
the most changes because it's also multiple buildings.
CHAIR HUDES: Right, okay. Any further discussion
on this one? Okay, a motion on this? Commissioner Badame.
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COMMISSIONER BADAME: I move to forward
recommendation on minor exterior modifications to
commercial building to Town Council.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I'll second that.
CHAIR HUDES: Further discussion? Okay, all in
favor? Opposed? Passes unanimously.
Then finally group classes. This is a resolution
allowing a CUP for group classes within the downtown C-2
zone to be heard by DRC and those in other commercial zones
to be allowed by right with a certificate of use and
occupancy in business license. So, this is a CUP at the DRC
level in downtown and it's by right elsewhere, is that
correct?
SEAN MULLIN: That's correct.
CHAIR HUDES: On this one I had a question and
that is in the Staff Report it says that the term group
classes is not defined in the Town Code, and so my question
is do we need to tighten that up? The term group class is
defined really only as "not one-on-one" instruction, and so
something like a music school, a religious school, a riding
academy, a tutoring business, that's doing it on a group
basis, those would all be considered group classes, is that
correct, or do some of those fall outside of group class?
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SEAN MULLIN: All those examples are already
considered group classes. What Staff recognized here with
this change of introducing a group, the term group classes,
is that it was absent from our code and we were using over
time the art, craft, music, and dancing school which fits
the model of single instructor with a group class, so
adding group classes, which is the term that we use most
often, will just clarify it. But your examples are already
considered group classes.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, well, my comment on that
would be that where I've seen some downtowns decaying,
where the vibrancy and value had degraded, are some
downtowns that have become more and more occupied by not
the cycle type of group class but things like tutoring or
religious schools or things like that, and that tends to go
hand-in-hand with sort of the degradation of downtowns, and
so I was wondering if things like an actual school should
be differentiated from some of the group classes, the
fitness and things, that were envisioned in this. I don't
know if other people have thoughts about that or whether we
need a better definition of group class or that we feel
like things will work themselves out, I don't know. Yes,
Commissioner Badame.
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COMMISSIONER BADAME: Well, I have some concerns
with that. I equate group classes in the downtown to dead
weight not really adding to the vitality of the downtown,
and what little group classes I've seen I don't see them
patronizing the businesses. They go to their class and then
they leave, so it seems to me that something like that
needs more scrutiny or a better definition because I would
also be concerned about the degradation of downtown.
CHAIR HUDES: Vice Chair Hanssen.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I wanted to ask a question.
I was thinking of the example of SoulCycle. It was my
recollection that there was a whole bunch of juice bars and
places that kind of crept up. The synergy thing that you
were talking about, is that correct?
MONICA RENN: That's correct, and actually
lululemon, we were trying to get them to come here for
several years after their pop-up store and they hemmed and
hawed, and then once SoulCycle opened they jumped on the
next opportunity to come, so that's an example. I can say
as a customer of that same workout studio, there are
examples where an instructor will actually announce in
class, "Let's go X place for coffee together after," and
there will be a core group of people who will leave and go
somewhere together, so I think it just depends on the type.
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I think another thing to note is that this too
has been available for several months now and so it's less
about us looking at the crystal ball. I think it's more
about us kind of seeing what has happened and then
understanding that we can do a moratorium of do some sort
of stop if there becomes a level that's discomfort.
The group classes that we've seen that have been
coming forward to us are really ones that are experiential,
and in fact we were asked to do a presentation. I was asked
to represent Los Gatos and do a presentation recently at an
economic development summit that was about our downtown and
it was about how we create experience, because with our
one-way pilot we actually got a lot of people looking at
us, and the entire conference was actually on experience,
how to create experience, how do you get somebody to your
location, because then they will shop and they will stay,
and it's by providing things that can't be done online like
the classes, the socialization, exercise, those type of
things.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: So, relative to Chair Hudes'
thoughts, SoulCycle makes perfect sense to me. Orangetheory
Fitness, another one. I mean, they have it in downtown
Oakland and I'm sure it's helped the other businesses
there, but if you think about like a Chinese school or
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something that's only catering to a very small percent of
the population, doesn't really have synergies with anything
else, where do you draw the line on that? I mean, I guess
it gets approved at the DRC level so you would presumably
talk about those issues from downtown anyway.
MONICA RENN: I have two thoughts on that versus
of course it's the use, it a use of group classes, but for
me people equals synergy, so if people are coming
regardless, especially if they're dropping their kids off
and they have an hour to kill or two hours or kill, or
maybe they're dropping off a spouse or going to dinner,
maybe it is a language class and then they're waiting
somewhere they're going to meet the person after. I just
think anything you can do to get people here, to get people
understanding that this is a town that offers something for
everybody the more successful we'll be across the globe.
I mean, every store downtown is not for every
person and we know that and I think that's why it is
important to encourage a mix, but that happens naturally
and so for me I think heck, if we can get people down here
somebody is going to buy something else or discover
something else or stay a little longer, so for me it's
people equals synergy.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay, thank you.
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CHAIR HUDES: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I completely agree with you
on that. I'm just curious, in your expertise are you
completely comfortable with us not having a definition of
group classes? If we all stop thinking about what the
market needs right now—we all know right now it's yoga,
Pilates, or cycling or something—and we go 15 years down
the road when trends have turned another way, are we
comfortable not having at least any parameters? And I am
going to defer to your expertise; you've talked to other
jurisdictions.
MONICA RENN: You know, I think if we wanted to
craft a definition of group classes it could be helpful.
It's interesting because a lot of times when people do come
to tenant a property they will look at our code, they will
search out group classes, and we know internally that we
use that school definition but it's not something that
somebody can search from our Town Code, so I think if we
were open to create a definition and it was a definition
that was anything beyond kind of that one-to-one, and
that's what we tell folks. When they come and they say oh
no, I'm not having group classes, I'm just going to work
with three people at once, we say it is our practice that
one-on-one is personal service and once you go beyond that
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it's group class, so we do have kind of an unwritten
definition and I think putting that down—kind of for lack
of a better word, my apologies—memorializing that
definition, putting it somewhere could provide us with the
ability to serve more clearly.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Yeah, I would think so too.
Without slowing down process I just would recommend that we
do something just knowing we don't know where the service
or class market is going to go in 15 years and this gives
us some kind of parameter to fall back on.
CHAIR HUDES: Vice Chair Hanssen.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: I was under the
understanding that we also have a process for schools, and
so I wondered if it would be clearer if we just said…
Because there is actually a definition proposed in the
ordinance for group classes being not one-on-one
instruction, but you could also say it's not a school as
defined in our code because we have a specific definition
of what a school is, you know, like a public school.
SEAN MULLIN: To address that question, there
already is for traditional schools, the term I'll use, so
public school, high school, private school, those kinds of
things, that's a separate use from group classes and is
administered differently. The group class is how we've used
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that term internally but applied it to the art, craft,
music, dancing schools, really looking at these specialty
type classes, so dancing, music, or in this case the
exercise.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Not a broad based, multi-
disciplinary education?
SEAN MULLIN: Correct.
VICE CHAIR HANSSEN: Okay.
JOEL PAULSON: And I would just offer that if the
Commission thinks that's clearer, then language to the
effect of, "and does not include schools as defined in the
Town Code," which Vice Chair Hanssen mentioned, that could
be part of the recommendation to the Council.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Comments about that? I agree,
I think that would be helpful. I absolutely appreciate the
dynamics that are coming with businesses like SoulCycle and
the other fitness related ones, however, I also am very
aware of some downtowns that have become homes to tutoring
classes and karate studios and other things where the value
of the downtown has significantly degraded for the very
reason that Commissioner Badame pointed out in that those
people are there for a very specific purpose and they're
not availing themselves, and those are often associated
with decreasing rents and a decline of a downtown.
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When you go into a downtown and you see one
that's been in decline you see some personal service
businesses and you see those kinds of things and that's
about it, and so I would be supportive of this with the
addition of saying not a school, but I also would suggest
that we monitor this one really closely and if we are
starting to see some degradation, we start to see too many
uses that are really not synergistic and not additive that
we then come back on this one and watch this one closely,
because it is associated with declining downtowns, it can
be, so maybe we will need a different definition at that
point, so I would be supportive of this language as it is
with that addition. Yes, Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Do you want me to…
CHAIR HUDES: Sure.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay. I'm going to venture a
motion that we recommend approval of the modification for I
guess the addition of group classes as written, but we
would like to see a definition of group classes as
discussed in this meeting added to that wording.
CHAIR HUDES: And I wonder if the maker of the
motion would be open to including the term "not a school,"
because school is covered elsewhere?
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Yes, absolutely.
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CHAIR HUDES: I would second that motion then.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Thank you.
CHAIR HUDES: Further discussion? Okay, all in
favor? Okay, opposed? Passes unanimously, and this is a
recommendation so I assume there's not appeal rights on
this, is that correct?
SALLY ZARNOWITZ: That is correct.
CHAIR HUDES: Okay, very good. We got through it.
Thank you for indulging in the step-by-step approach here,
but I think we were dealing with kind of a basket of things
that had some differences.