Attachment 3 - April 13, 2016 PC Verbatim MinutesLOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/13/2016
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
D. Michael Kane, Vice Chair
Kendra Burch
Charles Erekson
Melanie Hanssen
Matthew Hudes
Tom O’Donnell
Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Robert Schultz
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(510) 337-1558
ATTACHMENT 3
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
VICE CHAIR KANE: We’ll move on to New Public
Hearings, Item 3. The property is 341 Bella Vista Avenue,
Subdivision Application M-12-103, Architecture and Site
Application S-12-008, Negative Declaration ND-16-001.
Requesting approval to merge two lots, construct a new
single-family residence, and remove large protected tress
on property zoned R-1:8. No significant environmental
impacts have been identified and Mitigated Negative
Declaration is recommended. This is property APN 529-23-015
and 529-23-016. The property owners are Jake Peters and Dan
Ross. The Applicant is Dan Ross. Project planner is Marni
Moseley.
Ms. Moseley, will you give the Staff Report
tonight?
MARNI MOSELEY: Of course. Good evening,
Commissioners.
The site contains two legal nonconforming
parcels. In 2011 and 2012 the Planning Commission
considered a development proposal for the site, which
included two multi-story residential units, an exception to
the maximum permitted FAR for the property, and a variance
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for driveway width. The Planning Commission denied those
applications and the Town Council considered the
applications on appeal in 2012. The Town Council upheld the
Planning Commission’s decision based on the Planning
Commission’s concerns regarding massing from the rear, size
of the homes, and the FAR exception required, as well as
safety for pedestrians on Bella Vista Avenue due to the
reduced driveway width.
The Applicant submitted a new application in
December of 2012 that includes a lot merger and
construction of one single-family residence. The proposed
residence has two levels of living floor area with a garage
above. The proposed floor area does comply with Town Code
limitations. The driveway is proposed to be constructed
above the grade and at an angle to reduce the slope below
15%, as required by the Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines. The lowest level is proposed to be cellar, it’s
predominantly cellar, and is only exposed to the rear and
the side patio. The proposed residence has a max height of
22’-9” and a stepped height of 33’, which is in compliance
with the Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines.
There were several geotechnical investigations
that appear in several peer reviews of those reports, and
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those are included in the initial study for the proposed
developments, which is part of your packet.
There are three significant tree removals, which
are required as part of the project. Those trees do cover
the majority of the site, and locating a building that
wouldn’t impact one or more of those trees would most
likely be infeasible on this site.
Staff has reviewed the project for compliance
with Town Standards and Guidelines, and with the exception
of the development on the slope greater than 30% and the
limited retaining walls above 5’, the project is in
compliance with the Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines and the relevant sections of the General Plan.
Based on this analysis, Staff recommends the Planning
Commission approve the proposed project, subject to the
attached findings and conditions.
This concludes Staff’s report. We are here if you
have any questions.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Prior to questions,
have all the Commissioners had an opportunity to view the
site? Are there any disclosures? Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I had incidental
conversation with neighbors while I was visiting, but I did
not discuss the project.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: And I, myself, visited the site
and was given a tour of the location, the back trail, some
balcony views, bedroom views, nothing consequential on the
case.
Any others? Thank you. Questions for Ms. Moseley.
Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Several letters, but one
in particular, we received a letter from Lee Quintana, a
multipage letter in which she raises a number of issues,
and I’m wondering if you’ve had an opportunity to go over
that letter?
MARNI MOSELEY: I have.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Could you give us some
comments, because Ms. Quintana raises a number of issues
and I’d just appreciate your comments.
MARNI MOSELEY: Could you clarify which ones you
would like me to speak on?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: If you look at page two
of her letter, for example, she talks about story, cellar,
and garage, and this is definitional. She talks about
grading and foundation. She talks about additional
questions. Actually I’d like you to talk about all of those
things that she raises. You don’t have to spend a lot of
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time on any of them; some of them are more important than
others.
But she says, for example, “Is the lower level a
cellar or a story? Can a story be a cellar? Are they
mutually exclusive?” She raises some questions that I don’t
think will take a long time for your answer, but I would
like them to be answered.
MARNI MOSELEY: Okay, I’ll do my best. Cellar
versus story are two separate items. The cellar is defined
as relevant to the grade around it. The story has to do
with the actual levels. This proposed project has two
levels that are exposed at any given time. There is no
three-story component that is exposed that does not include
a cellar as part of it. The Town Code does define both of
those and provides definitions for those, and they don’t
necessarily work in collaboration with each other,
unfortunately.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: If it would help you, I
could just pull out some of the ones she asked.
MARNI MOSELEY: Sure.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: For example, under
Additional Questions she says, “Why is the setback line
along the east side measured from the edge of the pavement
as opposed to the property line?”
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MARNI MOSELEY: The required setback line, they
may be providing a proposal as far as a visible
representation of how far away from the physical right-of-
way they’re providing, but the required setback line is
from the property line, and it’s reduced so it’s actually
only 12.5’ because of the slope differential. The Town Code
does allow the 50% reduction in the front setback when the
slope is more than 10’. Or I’m stating it wrong.
JOEL PAULSON: When the elevation from street
level that within 50’ of the property is 10’ or more, you
can reduce the front setback in half, so Town Code allows
for that provision.
MARNI MOSELEY: I knew I was saying it wrong. I
couldn’t remember how far in the lot (inaudible).
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had a specific question
about the back setback. As you’re probably aware, there
were quite a number of letters of opposition from the
neighbors on Maggi Court—I hope I’m saying the name of the
street right—and in the information in our packet it said
something about the line of the house being 48’ from the
nearest resident, but then there’s a patio that goes behind
that, so I was just curious about what the actual setback
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was considering the patio that goes out the back as well as
the edge of the building?
MARNI MOSELEY: The closest point of the
residence—that’s where we would measure the setback from—
they do not provide me with a dimension from the patio down
below. We don’t measure setbacks from patios, so they do
not have that labeled, but from the closest point of the
residence to the property line is 23’-4”.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So the edge of the house
before you go out to the patio is 23’?
MARNI MOSELEY: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Then I read through the
consulting architect’s report and he didn’t have any major
issues with the project, but he did mention one thing that
caught my attention; it was the fact that the house is very
dramatically different in terms of design, it being a
modern architecture, than any other property, and I
wondered if Staff thought there was any reason to consider
that? The main reason he didn’t make an issue, if I read
his comments correctly, is because you can’t view the
property from Bella Vista itself very well, but all the
neighbors from the down neighborhood could see it very
well, and if you went through the neighborhood there are no
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other houses that are that kind of modern design, so I just
wondered if Staff thought that was a concern at all?
MARNI MOSELEY: What I believe the consulting
architect actually mentioned was that the modern
architecture lends itself well to development on the
hillside, because a lot of time those roof forms mirror or
mimic the hillside, and so a lot of times it actually
coincides better with our Hillside Development Standards
and Guidelines rather than a more traditional architecture
style where you’re going to have more ridges and peaks
differently.
The consulting architect did find that there is a
variation of architectural styles out there, and I went
back out there today and looked at them. The ones on this
side of Bella Vista are quasi-modern. I mean, they aren’t
really traditional architecture so much, so I think there
is a variety out there and I think that is something that
the consulting architect took into consideration, and Staff
did as well.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: By any chance do you know,
in some of the old soils studies that they did on the site,
did they take into consideration the use of heavy machinery
on the site? As part of the project they’re going to be
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driving four concrete footings with approximately 20’ piers
into the soil, and that piece of equipment is very large.
When you drive up there, you can see that the road just
kind of wanders into the dirt. So I wasn’t sure, because it
looks like some of the soil reports were done obviously a
few years ago. Did they take into account using that type
of heavy equipment and how that would potentially affect
the soils on the site?
MARNI MOSELEY: Generally the Initial Study as
well as the geotechnical reports do look at the impacts of
construction and the feasibility of those construction
techniques for the site. Unfortunately, the geotechnical
consultant is not present for tonight’s meeting, but the
Applicant may be able to speak a little bit more to that
too.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Can I ask a follow up
question with that?
VICE CHAIR KANE: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Along with that, and looking
at the extremely heavy machinery that would be on that
road, did they take into account the removal of trees,
particularly those trees in that area, with their erosion
control?
MARNI MOSELEY: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER BURCH: Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: My biggest concern with this
is the slope of the hillside that we’re dealing with, and I
wonder if you can tell us is there anything in the code
that talks about how steep is too steep? I know that in
previous hearings there were comments made about is this a
buildable lot, or is this well suited for building on this
lot at all? What are the Town’s standards with regard to
the slope of a lot and building on it?
MARNI MOSELEY: There is no percentage of slope
that is considered unbuildable. The Hillside Development
Standards and Guidelines, I know that one of the neighbors
mentioned, where it talks about hazardous on the sites.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Page 16.
MARNI MOSELEY: That’s where I was at, and I
didn’t find it. Page 23 of our Hillside Development
Standards and Guidelines, sorry. It speaks to site-specific
geologic and engineering investigations that are required,
which were completed as part of this project, and then it
talks about, “Construction shall be avoided in areas with
geologic hazards, for example, slope instability and
seismic hazards.” Those are really referring to areas that
have been determined to actually have those hazards. Those
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hazards were not determined to be part of the makeup of
this site. There are sites in town, some of them I’ve had
to work on, where there are fault lines, and so the state
mandates specific setbacks from those, and those are
specific hazards that are really, I think, what this
section of the Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines is trying to get at.
JOEL PAULSON: I just offer also, on page 16 it
talks about hazardous sites with a 30% slope that I believe
was referenced in one of the letters that you received
today; that’s number six on page 16.
VICE CHAIR KANE: That’s where I was going to go,
Mr. Paulson. On page 16, which I’d refer to you, or the 23,
“Avoid hazardous building sites, building in areas with
more than 30% slope, or areas containing the liquefiable
soil bearing capacity (inaudible),” blah, blah, blah,
“shall be avoided.” I’ve served on the Commission for a
while and I’m passionate about the passionate Hillside
Standards and Guidelines, and we normally do not support
30%; we’ve accepted that as a rule of thumb.
Staff Report says this is an average of 53%, so
what that means is that another spot is 40%, this is 60%,
and another is 70%. I haven’t seen a project this steep
before. Mr. Paulson may, but for members of the public, are
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we losing the meaning on hillside when you make the obvious
statement that there is no prohibitive slope, and I guess
if I said 180% hanging from a rope, where do we… An average
of 53%, I have no memory of anything like that before. How
do we get around that, or how did you get around that?
MARNI MOSELEY: There are many examples on that
side of Bella Vista where this type of construction
currently exists and has already been implemented on slopes
very similar to this site.
At the end of that number six it also says,
“unless no alternative building site is available.” It says
this is where generally an LRDA should include as far as we
want to do what we can to reduce development on slopes over
30%, but within those constraints where is the least
impactful location on this site?
VICE CHAIR KANE: Let’s talk about LRDA. The
Hillside Guidelines goes at length to say find it.
MARNI MOSELEY: Mmm-hmm.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Find the one spot where you can
build something and you’d be pretty much restricted to that
by percentage of the footprint of the house. There’s no
LRDA on this site.
MARNI MOSELEY: There is nothing that fits within
the 30% slope or as defined, but there is still what you
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can look at and analyze and determine is the least
impactful location on the site, but yes, there is nothing
that technically conforms to the language within there.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Following up on that point,
on page six of the report it says that, “As a result, the
site does not contain any area that complies with the LRDA
requirements in the Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines. Does that preclude building on that site?
MARNI MOSELEY: No.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Explain to me why you can
make the statement that there is no area that complies, and
yet you can build on it.
MARNI MOSELEY: Rob, you want to weigh in a
little bit on what that means to say that you can’t build
on a site in town?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: There are many reasons why you
can find a lot is not buildable. Topography is one of them
that you’re talking about right now, the slope. Our
ordinance does not say what you’re looking for is for it to
say if anything over 50% is non-buildable. That’s not what
the code section does; it provides you guidelines, and as
the sentence says, it’s to find the least obtrusive, or
least obtrusive to the building site.
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There are many reasons why it can be unbuildable:
flooding, it doesn’t fit the size of the lot, it doesn’t
meet setbacks, it doesn’t have easements, or it doesn’t
have access. We’ve always interpreted that LRDA requirement
to be that’s what you’re looking for, and if it isn’t
findable that doesn’t mean the lot just becomes
unbuildable; and if it becomes unbuildable, then really if
that’s the interpretation, then we will have some issues
regarding takings claims.
VICE CHAIR KANE: It may not be unbuildable, but
there may be restrictions with the size, the density, et
cetera?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Absolutely.
VICE CHAIR KANE: And I’m concerned about, as
always, giving it away. We give away 30%, we give away the
LRDA, and where are we. This is an extreme case of trying
to apply the hillside guidelines. I don’t think we’ve got
into neighborhood compatibility yet and the words that talk
about neighborhood compatibility, and again, the passion
that goes with that. It seems to me that there’s room there
to discuss privacy on neighborhood compatibility, and I
mean no disrespect, but there’s an elimination of privacy
on a number of the houses that I visited today, and is that
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neighborhood compatible? In fact, is this design
neighborhood compatible?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: (Inaudible).
VICE CHAIR KANE: Ah-hah. Why not?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: (Inaudible).
VICE CHAIR KANE: Oh. Well, thank you, Ms.
Moseley. Anything else? Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: You mentioned there were
other properties that were set down the hill from Bella
Vista. I saw one, I think it was 313 or similar address,
but there are more than that?
My second question is are there other parcels out
there that are on that slope that we’re going to hear from
in the future, or is this the last buildable possible lot
that’s zoned for residential?
MARNI MOSELEY: There are some unique lots where
the roadway where Bella Vista went in split, some remnant
pieces, and you see a 500 to 1,000 square foot sliver
that’s owned by the person on the other side still, and you
see the same kind of thing out on Glen Ridge, whether or
not that was intentional, and is to the benefit of those
existing property owners; that’s what Glen Ridge owners
would say. I think there are two other little tiny ones,
but a very different scenario.
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The other site along Bella Vista is the 331/333
site. Actually, that’s a single-family residence with two
secondary units on it. Then there’s one that is a little
bit farther down, closer to Caldwell. When you look at it
from downhill in the Maggi Court development, they look
pretty close to each other, but they look further apart
when you’re up on Bella Vista.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So those are ones that are
already built?
MARNI MOSELEY: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: There are two parcels. And
then you’re saying there are or are not any vacant parcels
right now?
MARNI MOSELEY: There are no other similar
situations on Bella Vista.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: That haven’t requested to
build yet?
MARNI MOSELEY: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I have a question for
the Town Attorney. You alluded to the problem with deciding
a lot is non-buildable. I’m sure we’re going to hear more
about that later, but I thought perhaps if we heard from
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you a little bit about… That in essence is a limitation we
should be aware of, and I don’t think there’s a discussion
of that, so if you could give us at least some indication
of what that means.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: This, in my interpretation, is a
legal, buildable lot. When it was subdivided it became a
legal lot. After that fact we have put restrictions on it
that you all talked about regarding the depth of the lot,
sizes, and all of those things. Those in and of itself
cannot then be determined to be unbuildable, and buildable
has to go more towards the scientific and experts. I’ve
seen buildable lots where there have been endangered
species on it that protected the lot, or wetlands, or those
issues that are more dealt with as a lot, as opposed to the
issues that you’ve discussed are not unbuildable, but that
does not mean this project automatically meets our criteria
under a zoning.
Those are all things that you need to talk about
regarding compatibility and the protection of trees or
anything else that you can discuss, but as far declaring
this unbuildable because there are privacy issues, that
does not make a lot unbuildable because there are privacy
issues, if that helps.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: The bottom line is I
take it that if you decide it’s unbuildable notwithstanding
the facts, you may have just bought the lot.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: You definitely bought the lot.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Other questions? One last
comment, Ms. Moseley.
In our Hillside Guidelines we have a ledger, a
map, of the hillsides, and I don’t need a camera focus on
this. The green stuff is the hillsides. The big stuff is
the hillsides. I know a hillside when I see a hillside. But
there are two tiny little strips of green right in the
middle of downtown just practically, two tiny little strips
of green. I did not know that was hillside. Mr. Paulson had
to educate me that that was indeed hillside. Do you think
they were sending us a message when they designated those
two little tiny strips of green and offered that there be
some caution and conservation to those plots in the future?
MARNI MOSELEY: I think the direction was just
that that is a hillside environment and should be subject
to the Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you very much. Other
questions?
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BARTON HECHTMAN: I’m Bart Hechtman, I’ll be
representing the Applicant and I have turned in a card.
Good evening, Vice Chair Kane and Members of the
Commission. I’m Bart Hechtman with Matteoni O’Laughlin &
Hechtman. I’m here representing Dan and Deborah Ross;
they’re seated here to my left with their sons, Sam and
George.
As you may know, the Rosses have lived in Los
Gatos for the past 16 years and have been working on this
home approval process for more than a decade. I want to
thank you for your time this evening. I’ll start with and
I’m going to end with the request that you adopt Staff’s
recommendation for approval with the conditions attached to
the Staff Report.
Because there are new Planning Commissioners here
since this last came to the Planning Commission, I wanted
to provide some history. There is some in your Staff Report
and I’ll try not to be too redundant, but there are
currently two legal and buildable lots on Bella Vista
Avenue, 339 and 341. Both lots have been determined by the
Town to be legal lots and physically buildable.
The lots sit near the intersection of Highway 9
and 17, near medium-density attached townhomes on Maggi
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Court, a motel, and accommodation of single-family homes,
condos, and duplexes on Bella Vista.
In 2010 the Rosses applied for approval of two
single-family homes, one on each of the two lots. This is a
site plan from that time. By 2012 they had revised the plan
many times, as shown on this next slide, and at that time
it included a total square footage, including cellars, of
4,521 square feet and was recommended for approval by Town
Planning and Town Engineering based on similar homes in the
neighborhood.
As Marni mentioned, the previous application was
denied by the Planning Commission and by the Town Council,
and that denial was based primarily on the fact that that
application exceeded FAR, it required front and rear
setback exceptions, it required a driveway length variance,
and the Craftsman and Spanish style wasn’t an appropriate
style for the hillside.
The direction from the Council, Planning
Commission, and the neighbors at that time was we want to
see one lot, we want to see one home, we want a significant
reduction in size, the house should be designed to fit the
hill, you need to move and lengthen the driveway, and no
variances.
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In direct response to the neighborhood, the
Planning Commission, and the Town Council direction the
Rosses are proposing a lot merger to create one legal
10,155 square foot lot with one home and complying with all
Town codes. The upper, lower, and cellar total area, total
square footage, has been reduced from 4,521 square feet to
2,638 square feet. This new plan is reduced by 1,883 square
feet, or a 42% reduction, compared to the previous two-home
application, and has one driveway and one garage.
The proposal before you tonight complies with all
Town zoning codes. The plan is compliant; it meets FAR,
height, front setback, side setback, and rear setback
regulations. The proposed home complies with the Town
Zoning Code and requires no General Plan amendment, no
Zoning Code amendment, no Planned Development zoning, and
no variances. The proposed home has only a 14.6 FAR and lot
coverage of 13.4% on the 10,155 square foot lot.
The home was designed to minimize the need to use
the rear yard and side yard to the north for decking and
outside entertainment to minimize the impact to the
townhome neighbors.
It appears to be the largest lot, and the
driveway appears to be the longest driveway on the west
downslope of Bella Vista.
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The two on-street parking spaces on Bella Vista
Avenue will remain, which will help with neighborhood
parking.
The plan fully complies with the Town Cellar
Policy, which the Town not only allows but encourages, and
this design does not require, nor are the Rosses
requesting, any variances.
Locating the house to the south end of the
property reduces interface with the adjacent townhouses and
allows the use of existing mature trees to screen the one
townhouse to the west. They were able to achieve greater
than the required 20’ setback, with the rear setback of
23’-4” at the north corner and 36’-4” at the south corner.
This also allowed them to locate the driveway in a safer
location, away from the curve on Bella Vista Avenue, and to
meet the 15% driveway slope requirement.
Privacy was a significant issue back in 2010 and
2012, and Vice Chair Kane, it still is and I expect we’ll
hear that, but there are significant privacy measures taken
related to this design. Per the HDSG compliance checklist,
page 4, Section B, the outdoor activity area has been moved
away from neighbors, quiet areas, and bedrooms; second
story windows have been minimized and oriented away from
neighbors; one small deck at the back of the home is less
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than 6’ deep and designed to block downward views from
inside the home; landscaping is used to screen views to
neighbors and existing vegetation will be removed; the
garage will block sound and light from vehicles, as
recommended by section G-1-G; and patios to the south near
Highway 9 are oriented away from the neighbors.
Page 4, Section E, states three-story elevations
are prohibited. The house itself is not three stories. The
garage is angled so one corner at the rear at 4’-9” is
visible; this minimizes the appearance of the three-story
elevation. Now, not that the garage is not required. The
Rosses think it is preferable for sound, light, and
appearance benefits, and the neighbors on Bella Vista
prefer it, but it could be replaced with a carport.
All existing trees to the north will remain; 25
of the 28 trees will be preserved onsite. Only three trees
will be removed. The two trees in the building footprint
require removal and are allowed to be removed in
conformance with Town Code, as noted in your Staff Report.
The Rosses will work with the Town Arborist and their
neighbors to plant additional trees per the landscape plan
and Town Code, and will provide the right amount of
screening.
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For the purposes of the Least Restrictive
Development Area, the LRDA, the home is sited on the most
appropriate area within the building envelope and the area
farthest from the neighboring properties. Given the site
and slope greater than 30%, the home is in the least
impactful location, as noted in your Staff Report.
The house is not visible from viewing platforms.
It sits lower than existing tree heights and won’t block
views of the Los Gatos hillside or create new shade
pattern.
The drainage plan meets Town Code.
Natural wood exterior finish will blend with the
natural environment with an earth tone roof.
Existing mature trees will screen the townhome
neighbors. Additional trees and shrubs will be added per
Town Code. Existing trees to the north and south of the
house will remain. The olive tree between the home and the
Maggi Court home will remain. After meeting with neighbors
on Bella Vista the Rosses agree to plant trees that will
screen the power lines. The oak tree near the power pole
will remain.
The window type and locations are sensitive to
privacy. The overhang is modest and the home is stepped
with the slope. They’re using horizontal and vertical
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building components. A minimalist style minimizes bulk,
mass, and volume of the house. No perimeter fencing is
proposed unless needed for privacy. The house has been
moved farthest from adjacent property and the natural
features will be preserved on more than 86% of the lot. The
house is designed to the hill with a design that’s common
to hillside sites in Los Gatos and other places.
Let’s look at the compatibility. Here’s the home
setting. It’s a context here. The neighbors on Bella Vista
are made up of one- and two-story single-family homes,
duplexes, houses with back yards, cottages, apartments,
condominiums, and flag lots. The proposed lot is the
largest lot on the west side of Bella Vista and one of the
largest on the street. It has one of the lowest FARs and
lot coverage on the street.
The townhouses on Maggi Court immediate adjacent
are medium-density residential, three stories, 35’ tall,
attached, they’re 7’ apart with 1,650 square feet of living
area, 5,500 square foot garages on 1,307 square foot lots.
That FAR equals 126%.
Mature trees obscure views from the deck and
patio, and the high-quality minimal style minimizes impacts
on the neighbors.
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Let’s see, I’m going to move to the end. The
Rosses have been respectful to their neighbors and the
Town, and the proposed home takes into consideration public
comments made by neighbors, Town Council and Planning
Commission. We’re proposing a single home on a single
merged lot with significant reductions in square footage
and a design that is sensitive to the privacy concerns. We
appreciate your concern, ask that you concur with Staff’s
recommendation, and approve the home.
I’d like to close with something that I do hope
we can all agree on tonight, and that is Go Warriors! Thank
you. I’m available to answer any questions.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Well, that wasn’t fair. This is
minor, but you mentioned no impact on shade, or something
to that affect. I was there this morning at 9:30 and the
sun was coming up on Bella Vista and I think two of the
houses would be blacked out by the new structure. How would
I merge that with what you said about no shade impact?
BARTON HECHTMAN: There’s a shade study that is
part of the plan set that’s been submitted that shows that
the profile of the house is lower than the trees, so you
would have seen at that hour homes being shaded by trees,
and that shade pattern would continue.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: Not being clear. I stood on the
patio of a house below it and the house was between the sun
and me. I moved to the left and right and there was the
sun. I’m sure the shade study is accurate. I’m just telling
you my experience this morning of the house was between the
sun and me.
BARTON HECHTMAN: And there was no tree between
you and the sun is what you’re telling me, I think.
VICE CHAIR KANE: A number of trees, but the
sunlight came through them. Commissioner Hudes, did you
have your hand up?
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Yes, I did. Thank you, and I
particularly appreciate your presentation addressing the
concerns that were raised by the Council in the previous
application.
In reading the Staff Report, it said the
application did not address the concerns of the Commission
as it related to the FAR, and I think I heard some
specifics on that. The house size, I think I heard some
specifics on that. But the third point I didn’t hear about,
and that is massing from the rear. By approximately what
percentage, or how much, has the massing from the rear been
reduced in this application, or has it at all?
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DAN ROSS: It went from 110’ at the back to 68’
total length.
BARTON HECHTMAN: This is Dan Ross.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Mr. Ross, thank you.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Yes, thank you. I guess I
would be looking at massing in terms of area, not just
height or width, but what is the area of that back wall,
that back mass, if you will?
DAN ROSS: You mean the length of the back of the
home?
BARTON HECHTMAN: You’re talking about a square
footage?
COMMISSIONER HUDES: The length times width
expressed in square footage.
BARTON HECHTMAN: (To Mr. Ross) Do we have that
figure?
DAN ROSS: The length of the house is 68’, and
the depth of the house is 20’.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: And the height?
DAN ROSS: The height at the north corner is 22’-
1”.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: And is that consistent
across the back?
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DAN ROSS: It’s a good question. We just had a
survey done on March 18th that verified the previous
engineer’s topography survey, and I have it with me. It’s
22’-1” at the north, and it’s 17’-6” at the south corner,
from the current grade.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Something I would appreciate
understanding is how that concern of the Council was in
fact addressed. Is it more, less, and if it is less, how
much less? Maybe it can’t be answered tonight, but that’s
something I would need to understand.
BARTON HECHTMAN: I don’t think we can give you
two numbers tonight, which is clearly what your question
goes to, other than to indicate a couple of things.
One, the reduction of the square footage, which
has been discussed tonight, is not all in depth. Some part
of it is a reduction of the linear function, if you will,
looking from downhill.
The other aspects of massing of course are the
visible massing, so a less wide house in trees will have
less of it seen.
The third aspect is articulation. You always hear
people say break up the massing with articulation, and that
is addressed, I think, in the architectural plan.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Thank you.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you for your
presentation, and I appreciate that you went through and
addressed all the points that came up from the previous
hearing.
My question is this. There were a lot of comments
made about modifications that were made to the new house
design that would address the concerns of the neighbors.
Based on the number of opposition letters we received from
the neighbors, I was curious to what extent the Applicant
or anyone representing them has actually sat down and met
with the neighbors and shared these plans with them to see
if you can mitigate some of their concerns? I saw that our
Town Staff did address all the letters and said whether
they agreed or not, but especially since this Applicant is
saying that they want to live in the house, I would think
they would want to make their neighbors as happy as
possible and I don’t see any evidence of meetings, so I
would like to hear about that.
BARTON HECHTMAN: It is a good question, and
unfortunately it’s one of the things I cut as I noticed I
was running out of time, so let me answer it. The Rosses
notified the neighbors of their plans in the past, and have
done so again and offered to meet with any neighbor to
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review the plans. Each time the Rosses have interacted with
a neighbor they have expressed openness and a willingness
to meet, and none have contacted Mr. Ross, except Mr.
Coughlin across the street. They had a good discussion. Mr.
Coughlin wanted to retain the garage and asked that the
Rosses plant some additional trees on the property, which
they’re willing to do. So invitations have been extended,
just not accepted, other than by Mr. Coughlin.
DAN ROSS: It’s in the Letter of Justification
that’s in your file that we’ve had meetings since 2008.
I’ve had the same email address and same phone number since
2008. There is one neighbor who has stated to me that he’s
the representative of the Maggi Court group and anything
would go through him, and I reached out and left a message
for him. I did not receive a phone call back from him. I
left notes on porches and did not hear back from anybody,
and none of the other residents disagreed with his
statement that he would be the representative for the
neighborhood. In our meeting in 2008, there was no two-way
dialogue. It was a 90-minute meeting of them basically
saying why we shouldn’t be doing anything on this site, and
there was not an openness to have a two-way conversation.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I appreciate that, but as
you probably have observed, there’s quite a number of
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letters of opposition, so that presents a real dilemma that
there are this many people opposed to the project and there
is no dialogue happening to resolve the (inaudible).
DAN ROSS: I’ve reached out and there’s been no
effort on anyone’s part to come and have dialogue.
BART HECHTMAN: Your point is well taken. It’s a
frustration on this side that we couldn’t have that
dialogue.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Other questions? Given that
you’re aware of some opposition to the project, how could
you propose to mitigate it, if at all? It goes to quality
of life of the folks at the bottom of the hill. They have
issues with feelings about safety, and the geotech person
is not here tonight. Is that our geotech person or the
Applicant’s geotech person? You’re the geotech person?
BART HECHTMAN: No, the geotech person you were
wondering about would the Ross’s geotech, Upp
Geotechnology, who is not present tonight, but we do have a
letter from them.
If the safety issue you’re talking about is
landslide potential, nobody has actually said that, but is
that the geotech safety issue you’re concerned about?
VICE CHAIR KANE: Yes.
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BART HECHTMAN: Okay. We do have a letter that
was just prepared this afternoon, which we have copies that
we can distribute, but I can tell you generally it
concludes that based on their study—and as your Planning
Staff mentioned, there have been a dozen geotech studies of
this property over the years—but based on those studies,
I’ll just read a sentence here: “We judge the risk for deep
seated landsliding to occur at this site is negligible,”
but then they state that, “The slope stability will be
improved by the construction of the proposed home for the
following reasons,” and they state three reasons. Again,
I’ll distribute this letter.
The first is as a part of the construction you’re
going to be removing what they call the non-supportive
colluvium, so some of the least stable soil is going away,
being excavated for the home.
Second, the basement and house retaining walls
will support the remaining colluvium and undocumented fill
on the slope uphill of the home.
Finally, these retaining wall back drains reduce
the potential for water pressure to build up within the
colluvium, in the soil, and fill around the house
footprint.
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So we do have a geotechnical response indicating
not only is the current risk negligible, but also you
reduce the risk of a landslide affecting those downhill by
constructing this house.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Pardon me, one second. Do we
have those letters?
BART HECHTMAN: No, we just…
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’m seeing Commissioners shake
their heads. You know that Commissioner Hudes and myself
are not geotech people, but I’m concerned about that slope,
and that’s the very kind of thing we probably need, not to
mention the neighbors who have a fear of the project and
fear of the unknown. If you’ve got the known, we need to
know it.
BART HECHTMAN: You also have the known, just not
in this format. You have the geotechnical reports that
reach these conclusions. This is sort of a summary of an
explanation, because there appear to be with the neighbors
a lingering concern. But you have the data and the
conclusions in the reports that are already part of the
record.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. And by the way,
thank you for an excellent report. Commissioner Hudes.
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COMMISSIONER HUDES: I did have some questions
about that report. Would you be willing to allow us to
speak with the geotechnical engineer at some point?
BART HECHTMAN: Certainly.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Thank you. That would be
very helpful, I think.
BART HECHTMAN: Just to clarify, are you
referring to in the context of a Planning Commission
hearing, or to have Staff dialogue directly with the
geotech?
COMMISSIONER HUDES: From my perspective, I have
questions that as a Commissioner I would like to ask of the
engineer.
BART HECHTMAN: All right.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Other questions for the
Applicant? Seeing none, thank you.
BART HECHTMAN: Thank you. I’m going to give the
copies to your Planning Staff to distribute the letter I
just referenced.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you very much. Before we
go to the public testimony portion of the public hearing,
I’m going to yield to a request that we take a short ten-
minute break, and we’ll be right back.
(INTERMISSION)
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VICE CHAIR KANE: Can we take our seats? We’ve
had a discussion during the break on at least one of the
Commissioners’ concerns about the value of additional
information, especially as concerns geotech, and thank you
for your letter, Mr. Hechtman; that was very helpful. It’s
our opinion that it would be prudent to get the additional
information to learn more about the safety of the hillside,
for which reason the hearing will be continued to a date
certain, however, given that you are all here, with the
knowledge that when we continue the case you’ll be able to
speak again, the question is whether or not you would want
to speak tonight, and you have an option to do that. So
I’ll go through the cards. Anyone who wants to speak
certainly can. Anyone who wants to hold their powder till
be meet again, you can do so. At the end of that hearing
the Applicant will get five minutes tonight for rebuttal,
and so on in the future.
Counselor, did you have a comment?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: No, I think that described the
situation. It’s either that, or we can go through the whole
period and close the public comment and determine whether
you want to make a decision tonight, but it certainly seems
not only the question about the geotechnical, but there was
also about the bulk and mass that I don’t believe can be
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answered tonight, and there might be other things that you
do after the public comment that I’m sure the Applicant
would want to know what questions need to be answered
before he could get to the next hearing.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Commissioner
O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I just want the record
to be clear too. This was not a conversation among all of
the Planning Commissioners?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: It was not a decision
made by the Planning Commissioners. The Chair was concerned
about this, as I understand it, did discuss it with the
Town Attorney. One or two of us was more involved in this,
at no time majority involved. So in essence it’s a decision
of the Chair, one I respect, but I want the record to
reflect this was not a decision of the Planning Commission.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Quite right.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yes.
VICE CHAIR KANE: So going forward, I’ll call a
card, you can come speak or you can just wave at me, and
know that we will be having the hearing continued to a date
certain. Any idea when that might be? Two weeks, four
weeks?
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JOEL PAULSON: We’ll have to wait until the
Commission begins deliberation so we know how many
questions we have and what kind of information we’re
looking for.
VICE CHAIR KANE: All right, thank you.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Since certainly there will be
additional information that will come out from the
Applicant and you’ll be able to speak about it, what we’re
hoping would occur is that if you had the same comments
tonight, then the next meeting you wouldn’t repeat those
exact same comments, in order to keep the public hearing
going and let us do our business. So as the Chair uses the
word, if you want to “hold your powder,” if you want to
keep your comments and wait for the next meeting, you can
do that, or you can speak tonight. In any event, if you
want to do it at both, you will be able to.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Given that we’re seeking
additional information, that additional information needs
to be shared with the public. That may cause the same
speaker to want to say something different. Mary Ann Lown.
You’d like to speak? Then you certainly should. Am I first?
Yes, you are first.
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MARY ANN LOWN: Hello, my name is Mary Ann Lown
and I live at 156 Maggi Court with my husband Ken, and
we’ve lived there for ten years.
I’m going to try to be very brief, because many
of the things that you’ve addressed are things that I’m
very concerned about, which is the geological safety.
I want to also mention that our complex is very
peaceful and quiet and private, and I say this because
there have been statements made by some unknown person that
has said that there’s no privacy, because we can hear each
other. “People can hear each other, and people can view us
from Bella Vista.” In fact, I want to say we do have
privacy and we do have quiet. We can hear crickets at night
and doves cooing by the day. There are occasional planes
going over, but that’s normal.
My home is particularly private, as it has a high
retaining wall in our back yard, because it’s on the
highest level at the peak of where those homes are, and
because of that I’m very concerned about that retaining
wall moving into our home when there’s earth movement and
stuff going on. I wanted to refer to the same thing you
did, which was page 12 of the Hillside Development
Standards and Guidelines, the geological hazards, but
that’s already been mentioned.
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I also wanted to mention that we have a path
that’s used by our residents to access Bella Vista in the
back. Children come and go from school on that path, and I
have major concerns about falling objects from the
construction that could harm someone.
I’m also very concerned about removing the old
oak trees, an important green tree canopy, because that’s
going to add to erosion and soil.
The bulk and mass of the home will be unsightly
and intrusive to our privacy and peace due to people
hanging out on those balconies, and just to mention that we
have small back yards, we sit out there, it’s quiet.
Hearing voices and noise from up there will be intrusive.
Please take our requests seriously and deny this
project.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Questions for the
speaker?
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Would you be willing to
meet with the Applicant to discuss your concerns to see if
they could mitigate them?
MARY ANN LOWN: Sure, if he’d be willing to.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Other questions?
Thank you very much. Natalia Stulskaya.
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NATALIA STULSKAYA: Hello, my name is Natalia
Stulskaya and I live at 152 Maggi Court. My house is down
the hill from the proposed property, 341 Bella Vista
Avenue, and I’ve lived there with my family for ten years
now.
We are extremely concerned about the proposed
development in the area that has an excessively large
structure, removal of the large landmark trees, safety, and
also noise of the construction.
After reviewing all the plans I believe that the
proposed structure is excessively large. Given a slope that
averages at 53° and homes below the proposed construction,
it has a larger than necessary footprint.
Also, it includes 1,156 square feet of space that
is classified as a cellar. This cellar space is a living
space, the bedrooms and bathrooms. I did some simple
calculations. The previously proposed plan had 20% of 481
square feet out of 2,319 square feet of overall footage
classified as a cellar. This new plan has 44% of a space
that is conveniently labeled as a cellar, so unless we call
it a winery, I don’t see how it’s a house with 44% of the
cellar.
It’s because of this unreasonable desire to put
an approximately 2,700 square feet house on a very steep
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slope that our neighborhood has to suffer a large
construction project, and also take the unnecessary risk of
removing the trees, effectively ruining our beautiful
hillside that we have today.
The guidelines suggest that removal of trees and
shrubs shall be minimized to the extent visible. I do not
believe that this is what is being proposed by the plan.
Instead, we have the plan that suggests removing the three
biggest trees to the amount necessary to accommodate a
larger building.
I’ve walked on Bella Vista every day for the past
ten years. In the morning my kids walk to school, and on
the weekends we walk to the farmers market, we walk to the
library. On that same street we have examples where houses
were built on the flat lots and they do have trees that
were saved. For example—I’ve printed out that map—there is
an example on 210 Caldwell Avenue and also 142 New York
Avenue, so it’s basically the same neighborhood, same
street, and these are recently built houses, 2012 and 2014,
and trees were saved.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. You need to wrap up.
NATALIA STULSKAYA: Okay, thanks.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you very much. Debra
Chin.
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DEBRA CHIN: Hi, good evening, Commissioners. My
name is Debra Chin and I live at 154 Maggi Court in the
Bella Vista townhomes.
We as neighbors, and you as Commissioners rely on
the Applicant to provide factual information to help us
make a fair determination on the impact of the project.
Although the Applicant claims that his current plans for
the site are fully compliant, there are several issues that
I’d like to call to the attention of the Commissioners.
First is the three-story elevation. I’m
presenting an exhibit here that shows the Town’s response
to my email dated March 22nd responding to the Mitigated
Negative Declaration. Comment D-2 states, “The Town does
not concur that the project violates the Hillside
Development Standards and Guidelines. The Town does concur
that the proposed home is 3,139 square feet and three
stories.” As clearly shown on page 36, also excerpted here,
three story elevations are prohibited. So what’s changed?
Has the standard changed, or has it been an exception made
for this proposed plan?
The cellar. We’ve talked a little bit about the
Cellar and Attic Policy. It was adopted with the intent to
reduce the bulk, mass and scale of new homes. Putting the
bedrooms in the cellar actually runs contrary to the intent
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of this policy, as it adds additional bulk and mass from
the rear side facing the neighboring townhomes.
Continuing on the bulk and mass comment, instead
of following direction given by the Town Council to reduce
the mass significantly, the Applicant has increased the
size of this single home so that it’s now 46% larger than
the prior plans and 53% larger than the average homes on
the west side of Bella Vista, and this is taken from an
exhibit that was submitted by the Applicant as comparable
homes.
Lastly, the rear patio retaining wall. Granting
an exception to the Hillside Standards for a rear patio
retaining wall is not warranted since the bedrooms can be
placed on the main level, removing a requirement for egress
to a patio from the cellar. This patio actually negatively
impacts the neighbors on Maggi Court to the benefit of the
Applicant.
I respectfully ask that for all parties concerned
the Planning Commission gives the Applicant clear direction
to comply with the Hillside Standards and Guidelines. Thank
you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Questions for the speaker?
Commissioner Hanssen.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I have the same question I
asked earlier. Would you be willing to meet with the
Applicant to come up with a design that could mitigate your
concerns?
DEBRA CHIN: Well, I actually want to make a
comment, because there was something submitted in a
document that called me out by name in terms of saying that
I did not disagree that we had a spokesperson. I did not
disagree or agree, because I was never asked the question.
I was given a notice under my doormat three days before the
hearing, a comments are required. I’m home every day, all
day, I work from home, so I don’t believe that there is a
sincere desire to meet with us to address our concerns.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: But supposing that there
was, you would be willing to talk about that, to come up
with something? Because at the end of the day the Applicant
has a right to build on their property, it’s just a
question of what it is, but you would be willing to if they
were willing on their side?
DEBRA CHIN: Yeah, and I want to say that I’m
willing to meet, but I’m not qualified or interested in
designing a home, because I just don’t know how to do that.
I just know that it should be compliant.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I probably misspoke. What
I meant to say is if you have concern X, that they could
say we’ll change this to address it.
DEBRA CHIN: Sure, if the changes are to meet
these concerns, I’m willing to listen to them.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I need to put this in the form
of a question, so it’s do you know. Do you know that it
would appear to many people that the basement is a first
floor, however, it meets the legal definition of a
basement, and whether the language is inadequate or is
being maximized in the advantage of the Applicant, the fact
is it’s a basement, so we’re stuck with that? I just want
to share that, because I think it’s important. I know what
it looks like, but it’s a lawful basement.
DEBRA CHIN: I guess I’m not debating the
definition of a basement. My comment was around the three
stories. The Town did reply to my letter acknowledging it
was three stories.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Pat Tillman. Again,
we have the option of speaking or waiting.
PAT TILLMAN: My name is Pat Tillman; I live at
150 Maggi Court. I live with Mary Badame, who is normally
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the chairperson here. Everyone here knows that, but in case
somebody doesn’t.
In any case, Mr. Ross said that I represented to
him that I represent this group. I’ve never said that. I’ve
tried never to imply that. He came over to our house. He
sat down and I asked him a lot of questions, and he gave
evasive answers. His initial presentation, whenever that
was, back in 2012, was very misleading.
This presentation, I believe, is very misleading.
You can’t get the right facts out of here, and I don’t
believe Town planners have assisted us. I can’t find
comments in that report that address the community; they’re
all comments about Dan Ross and what he wants. I can give
you examples.
Well, let me use the comparison. The Overlook
project is coming up next, so that’s on the agenda. In the
Planning Department’s report, in the Background section, it
says, “The project is being forwarded to the Planning
Commission, because neighborhood concerns regarding mass,
height, privacy and neighborhood compatibility could not be
resolved.” That’s on page three. Then it goes on to say,
“Recommendation: Staff recommends denial of the
Architecture and Site Application based on the height and
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mass of the residence in comparison with those in the
immediate area.” That’s on page ten.
Now, I suspect that everyone here has seen the
Overlook project. This has no comparison with that, and
Planning addressed the privacy, bulk and mass, and the
height, all the things that the neighborhood is concerned
about. The whole purpose of this process is to protect the
neighborhood, not to assist the developer.
What we have in our packet is in the same
section, Background. Here’s what the Applicant says, and
goes on for three-quarters of a page of what Dan Ross
wants. That’s it. There’s no comment in there about our
privacy, bulk and mass, intrusion, any of the stuff that
we’ve been complaining about for five or six years. And in
the Recommendations, they don’t have any except these are
the findings we want you to make, which are the legal
findings. I mean, talk about getting some help from the
Planning Department; I’d really like some.
I sent in three letters. I hope you got the last
one, it was sent Monday morning at 8:38. I sent in three
letters. We have my first letter going back four years ago,
then the General Plan and Hillside Standards and Guidelines
violations, and the last, an unbelievable number of them,
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and four years worth of warnings to these people, and we’re
in the same (inaudible).
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you, Mr. Tillman, and
thank you for all your letters and hard work. Questions for
the speaker?
PAT TILLMAN: I would appreciate some.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I have one. In your letter you
make a number of statements that the matter is going to be
continued, maybe you’d want to rethink them or substantiate
them. On page two you talk about cut and fill and reference
pages in the Hillside Guidelines and say both were
exceeded.
PAT TILLMAN: Yes.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I don’t see that. I wish you
would elaborate. Not now, but if you could get back to us
in writing, and get back to us as soon as you could in
writing.
PAT TILLMAN: No, I did. It’s in that letter.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I think I started reading this
this afternoon.
PAT TILLMAN: It’s in that letter. It’s Figure 9
in the Mitigated Negative Declaration.
VICE CHAIR KANE: The driveway and parking you
are saying exceeds 15% slope, in adequate line of site.
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PAT TILLMAN: Yes.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Tell us more about that,
because I can’t find it. To say that such-and-such is the
way it is, I just wish you could substantiate it. I think
it’s a good letter. It needs to be…
PAT TILLMAN: I can. I can do it now.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Well, Denzel Washington said,
“Talk to me like I’m a six year old.” Make it black and
white and clear.
And number eight, “Building height exceeds the
28’ max.” Now, Staff said that’s not the case.
PAT TILLMAN: Go figure.
VICE CHAIR KANE: So those are three things that
if you want to substantiate them, it would be helpful.
Other questions for the speaker?
PAT TILLMAN: But may I ask a question myself?
Because those three items should have been directly
addressed. The conclusion has been addressed, but the
specifics have not been supplied.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Yeah, for whatever reason I
didn’t get it, so I’m asking you to help me.
PAT TILLMAN: No, no, no, I supplied the
specifics. I meant the Applicant has not supplied those
specifics. You shouldn’t be allowed to walk up to this
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panel and say that parking driveway has less than a 15%
grade, or whatever. It’s far more than that.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you, Mr. Tillman.
PAT TILLMAN: Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Erin Johnson, you have the
option.
ERIN JOHNSON: Hi. My name is Erin Johnson and I
live at 150 Maggi Court. In addition to being a current
resident I was also born and raised in this town, so that
makes 32 years.
Last week I fractured part of my foot. On Friday
I worked for home, and for extra comfort I curled up into
my mom’s bed. That bed is located in the master bedroom
facing the cliff that the Applicant is pushing for the
fifth time to build upon. In bed I felt at peace. The 53%
slope is an open kind of rural space covered in greenery
and beautiful trees, and one tree in particular is a 150-
year-old oak that the Applicant previously expressed to
save. Now it could very well be destroyed. Not necessarily.
Anyhow, my peace was disrupted at the thought of
having a house towering over me, a house peering in and
over mine, all because the Applicant expects the Town to
make exceptions. I can literally throw a stone from our
back patio to Bella Vista Avenue.
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Speaking of throwing things, plans show that the
development’s kitchen will align with our master bedroom.
Perhaps I can get tossed a pancake or two for some
breakfast in bed.
The Hillside Development Standards are in place
for a good reason. Rules are rules. This is the fifth
hearing in five years. We meet again because the Applicant
insists on building a bloated house on a cliff; in fact,
this time around the application has increased in mass and
scale. There is an absolute disregard for rules and
guidelines here, and I ask you to please shut down this
project once and for all. Please deny it and uphold the
standards of our town.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Questions for the
speaker? Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: You refer to an oak tree.
ERIN JOHNSON: A Coastal oak.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Are you familiar with the
diagram, which is page 33 or the arborist’s report, and
could you point that tree out on that diagram? My question
would be is that one of the three that the Applicant is now
saying will be removed?
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ERIN JOHNSON: It is one of the three that he is
saying will now be removed, but in previous plans it was
going to be saved.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Can you show us which one
that is? The one that’s right in the middle of the house
or… Number two? And that’s within the footprint of the
house, is that correct? Okay, thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Other questions for the
speaker? Thank you very much.
ERIN JOHNSON: Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Nicholas Williamson. You have
the option go/no go.
NICHOLAS WILLIAMSON: Good evening, ladies and
gentlemen. I’m Nicholas Williamson; I live in 148 Maggi
Court, which is directly below the project site.
I must say I’m very grateful that you want to
take some more time to look at the geotechnical, because
that was a big concern of us; we do live immediately below.
I mean the building overhangs us, so we are very concerned
about what might happen. And it’s not just landslide, it’s
shaking as well, because anything could shake off the
building and it comes from a much greater height than even
our house. We’re so close to this that we are concerned, so
I’m grateful for that.
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I’m a bit concerned that we have to move the
hearing, because I travel a lot on business and I’m afraid
I might miss the next one, so I have to see when that is.
One thing I want to pick up on is when I read the
documents Staff implied this was not a hillside of great
concern. I welcome that you look at this as a proper
hillside. It is, and the attitude that it’s not a great
concern allows creep. It allows creep and erosion of the
standards that we want to apply to all of our hillsides, so
it’s very, very important that we uphold the principles and
the hillside law in all of these decisions, and not abuse
that law.
When Mr. Ross bought this land it came with some
pretty severe constraints, and they’re obvious to see. You
already commented on the slope, the proximity of the
neighbors, it’s very narrow from the road to the bottom,
and there are geotechnical concerns. There are some very,
very significant constraints which are not buried in the
code, they’re not buried in the law; they’re obvious to see
with your eyes. Mr. Ross may have acquired a right to
build, which was granted in 1938, but that doesn’t mean
it’s possible to build on that land in 2016.
I think that we have to apply the hillside law
very, very strictly, and this proposal does breach the
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hillside law in multiple places. I won’t go into detail
right now unless you ask me the question.
I would like to point out the net lot deduction
on the slope averaging 53% is woefully in adequate; I could
go into more detail on that. This house is bigger than
previously was planned for the site of 341, much bigger. I
think at one point they were talking about an FAR of 700’
or 800’, and suddenly we’re like double that on the same
plot. It’s amazing.
That’s about all probably I’ll go into detail
today. I’m really grateful that you uphold the law and
thank you for your time to visit.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Questions for the
speaker? Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Based on your comments I
don't know if drew the correct conclusion, but it sounded
to me like you didn’t think it was feasible to build
anything on that property. Can you envision a residential
unit that would work?
NICHOLAS WILLIAMSON: Honestly, when I look at
it, I don’t think it’s feasible to build. I think it’s been
noted before that it’s virtually unbuildable. I think there
are people waiting to see whether something is possible.
Constraints change over time, and so I don't know. I look
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at it, I don’t think it’s feasible, and I think that was
obvious to anybody looking at it and anybody deciding to
buy it.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Supposing that this does
go forward though, would you be willing to work with the
Applicant to address some of your concerns?
NICHOLAS WILLIAMSON: I think Ms. Chin said it
quite correctly. We want the building or whatever is going
to be there to be compliant and to obey every part of the
law, but we’re not experts in designing the house. I’d
obviously prefer nothing was built, but of course I will
listen to designs just the same as we’re here tonight, and
my neighbors, I’m newer than them to the development,
they’ve been along before. I’m here tonight because I’ve
come to listen; I’ve come to learn more.
I did reach out to Staff for a dialogue;
unfortunately they didn’t respond to me. I am listening,
but I do think this is really difficult, and if you’ve seen
the site, I’m the house that’s not actually mentioned as
being adjacent, but I’m right underneath it, and I don’t
like going away on business and knowing there might be
something.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you, Mr. Williamson.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you.
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NICHOLAS WILLIAMSON: Thank you very much.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Ken Lown.
KEN LOWN: Hi, my name is Ken Lown; I live at 156
Maggi Court. I had a little speech I’d written down, but it
touches on a lot of the topics that have already been
talked about, so I don’t really want to cover those again.
I do want to say one thing about mass and scale
and the comment about reduction of mass and scale relative
to the combined size of two homes in the previous proposal,
and now there’s one home. If I go to Nick, who spoke, his
back yard, which we were at the other night, the effect of
the story poles are just visceral, because the mass and
scale is not distance; it’s sitting within I think 45’. I
don't know; this room is maybe a little smaller than 45’ in
distance. And that was just the story poles, so I’m
imagining what an actual structure would look like to the
residents down at Maggi Court when it’s there.
The other thing I do want to touch on, and I
don’t think anybody has brought up, is what happens during
construction. I don’t actually know how much the Planning
Commission considers the impact of construction, but there
were some comments in the negative (inaudible) about the
levels of noise that would be generated, and talked about
numbers like 85 dBA and numbers that might extend a little
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bit beyond that. Eighty-five dBA is the level that OSHA
sets as requiring hearing protection for extended
durations, and of course during construction it will be
extended duration. Several of the residents down on Maggi
Court work from home, and several of the residents have
school children. During construction working from home will
become, I believe, nearly impossible. The distraction, the
annoyance, the inability to have conference calls, and the
inability of the kids to focus and concentrate on the
school days. I don't know if the construction will happen
on the weekends or Saturdays, so that’s a concern to me as
a resident.
The one other thing I did want to touch on is I
was one of the folks that have written a letter, and after
I wrote the letter I found out that at least one of the
things I stated in it was incorrect in that current fire
codes require residential sprinklers.
But I’m still curious about what the fire plan
would be if something were to happen at that residence, at
that structure, because the only place they could attack it
from would be from Bella Vista, which is the top of that
slope, and they’d probably lay out 1-1½” to 2-2½” hoses at
about 300 gallons a minute, and this would all come running
down that hill.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you, sir.
KEN LOWN: Any questions?
VICE CHAIR KANE: Questions for the speaker?
Thank you. Forrest Straight.
FORREST STRAIGHT: Forrest Straight, 146 Maggi
Court.
You may or may not consider me an expert witness,
and I’d be happy to give you my education afterwards, but
bulk and mass. This particular drawing and proposal is
larger than the last one above. When you add the total
square footage, 3,200 square feet, and add all the decks,
you’re looking at a footprint of about 4,000 square feet.
It’s bigger than the last structure, but in
addition to that, it’s about 10’ closer. The drawings show
it at 50’ from house; it’s closer to 40’. Measurement to
the back wall from where you’re sitting is about the
distance that this place would be from my house. Look up
six stories high, because that’s how big… If you’ve been
there and been to my house, it’s six floors above me. I
mean it’s massive. I don't know what degree it is, if it’s
80°; it’s almost vertical.
Cellar. What happens is the hillside is 30°. The
drawings behind you, if you take a protractor you’ll find
that the angle I think on the drawing on the right is at
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28°. What we know, what many people have said in your stack
of paperwork, from the bottom of the hill it’s 53°. The
reciprocal of that, 90° less 53° is 37°. The angle from the
top is 37°. I took instruments, I checked it. It’s very
close to 53°. I took instruments on top of the hill. Very
close to 37°.
This is a scale drawing; it shows the road above.
What happens is the little box at 74’, that represents the
cellar. At 28° you see that it’s a cellar, but at 37°
degrees my drawing shows that it’s not a cellar. The 37°
ends up on this scale drawing of my house down near the
base of my house, which is exactly what it is. If you take
the 28° in your drawings, it shows that the slope would
come right in the middle of my house. Incorrect. It’s not a
cellar.
In regard to the geotechnical, the property as
far as Santa Clara County is concerned is in a hazard zone
for fault rupture, landslide, and liquefaction. What
happens is we have these big, huge trees, 65’ wingspan, pi
r squared, you’ve got about 10,000 square feet of trees
with a deep root and a massive structure of roots. When you
take that out, you destabilize the hill. You take that out,
you take a big gouge of dirt out, you add tons and tons of
concrete, and what you end up…
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I’d be happy to keep going on if you like, to
continue on the geotechnical.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you very much. Questions
for the speaker? Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Just rudimentary geometry
here. You’re showing degrees. I believe that the reports
that I’ve read are expressing the slope as rise over run in
a ratio percentage. How does that relate to what you’re
showing here?
FORREST STRAIGHT: Most of the reports that you
have are always in degrees, 53° from the bottom, 37° from
the top, although I don’t think 37° is mentioned that
often. But if you take a protractor, put it on the drawing
behind you, you’ll find that the drawing is at 28°. If you
put the drawing at 10° the house is under earth. But at
28°, it’s a deception.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Other questions for
the speaker? Thank you, sir. Tim Coughlin.
TIM COUGHLIN: My name is Tim Coughlin; I’m at
320 Bella Vista, directly across from the subject property.
I did talk to Dan Ross. I asked him to come to
meet with me; I wanted to see the plans and I wanted to see
what he had proposed for the site. He did come out and we
discussed it to my satisfaction.
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Just for your review, this is the hillside; this
is a blowup of the hillside. You can see that the
designation hillside is this little area there, so this is
a hillside development. I submitted a letter that you have
in your packet. There’s a picture in there that shows the
property from our vantage point in our house, and I took up
this issue with Dan. I said, “If you’re going to take these
oak trees out, how will you mitigate that?” and he promised
that he’d put some more trees in somewhere.
I don’t find that satisfactory, so I actually
started digging into the hillside plan and I found there’s
something called “intent.” Now, his arborist report says
he’ll be taking out seven protected trees, and Tree 1 and
Tree 2 are these huge, beautiful oak trees; those will be
the ones that are in the drip line of the house. In the
Intent section it says, “This division is adopted because
the Town of Los Gatos is forested by many native and non-
native trees and contains individual trees of great beauty.
The health and welfare of the citizens of the Town require
that these trees be saved in order to preserve the scenic
beauty of the Town, prevent erosion,” et cetera. And that’s
Section 29.10.0950.
Then there’s a section called Standards of
Review. The Standards of Review are intended to serve as
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criteria for evaluating tree removal requests, and there
are seven guidelines; you probably have these. I’m an
amateur at this and I’m just looking at some of these
things that I was able to dig up, and one of the exceptions
that’s made for one of the decisions you can make in
allowing a tree to be removed is if it covers 25% of
proposed building envelope, and his plan does show that
it’s going to cover 26% of the envelope, but this says very
specifically, “except for properties located within
hillsides.” So this binding of 25% really doesn’t apply
here, and I would like to see this house worked within the
existing trees.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you, sir. Jeff Saunders.
Thank you. Eleanor Leishman.
ELEANOR LEISHMAN: Good evening, Commissioners,
my name is Eleanor Leishman. I live with my husband David
at 332 Bella Vista Avenue. We’re about two houses north of
the property at 341 Bella Vista on the east side of the
street.
I have many, many objections to this proposed
project, but tonight I’m simply going to speak about
traffic issues on Bella Vista and how this project would
impact them in a negative way.
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I know from being at past hearings with some of
you about this project, and also from listening to the 360
Bella Vista hearing recently, that many of you use the
street to ride bikes, or to walk, to ride, that you are
sensitive and aware of the traffic history and the history
of traffic safety problems on our street, so I won’t
belabor the fact.
I’d like to state that there have been ongoing
problems and that we have a high volume of cars on our
street; it’s a result in a sense of the overall traffic
increases in the Town, because of development, spillover
from Los Gatos Boulevard, students going to and from the
high school, their parents speeding back along our street;
it’s not just kids. A lot of people use our street for
recreation; children, cyclists, all kinds of people enjoy
our scenic and beautiful street.
The driveway of this property is going to slope
up a hill and it’s going to cut into Bella Vista on a
diagonal from the garage on a slope so that the drivers
will back up the hill, if they’ve driven down the hill to
the garage they’ll be backing up. I believe that they won’t
have a clear line of sight until they hit the street, at
which point they’re going to be backing onto Bella Vista
and into the line of southbound traffic, and if you’ve ever
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been on Bella Vista around 7:15 to 8:00 o’clock in the
morning you know that there’s a lot of traffic southbound,
some of it going very fast, some of it speeding up right
around the curve by this property. Once they get over the
little speed bump by our house, they jet onto the bridge.
I raise this as a concern that I hope you will
explore. I’m sure you’ve considered it already and you’ve
seen the plans. Any development on our street I think is
going to impact us. It’s a fragile little old street; it
was never designed for the amount of trucks and wide cars.
Parking is going to be another problem, because
the spaces near the property are almost always full, and
they obscure the view further from around the bend.
I urge you to consider these parking and traffic
issues, along with all the others that you have on your
plate, and I thank you very much.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Questions for the
speaker? Thank you very much. Edgar Corral. Okay. I do not
have any other speaker cards. I have one more coming. I
have two more coming. You may start, and please give it to
Ms. Moseley.
SHANNON SUSICK: I’m Shannon Susick, 16407 Shady
View Lane. A couple of things.
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As long as you’re going to be gathering more
information for the next hearing, I would recommend a new
arborist report, because I couldn’t match up the protected
trees that were being removed with what they displayed, and
in addition, it appears that it’s pretty dated. It should
be looked at again as far as the condition of the trees,
since we’ve had a pretty healthy winter rain. I come from
an environmentalist standpoint, so I look at those oak
trees, and I look at that site, and I go oh my gosh.
In regard to the Staff Report, which I thought
was lacking in some things. I think the comparable
addresses on the other side of the street that are in this
table are not appropriate; they’re on flat sides. The ones
that are on the same side of the street have similar slope.
And then that goes to the whole idea—and I’m
putting my appraiser’s hat on right now—of the FAR and
cellars and basements, and I’m going to the Town Code,
which defines cellar. We could look at the definition of
cellar. “The room below ground level in a house, typically
one used for storing wine or coal.” I don’t think we’re
storing coal anymore these days, but the idea of a cellar,
and the definition in our Town Code is, “An enclosed area
that does not extend more than 4’ above the existing or
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finished grade,” and that is in Section 29.10.020 in
Definitions.
This area in this plan looks more like a
basement, because it is an enclosed area, and as defined
here they, “shall be included in the floor area ratio
calculation.” No one builds a home and puts bedrooms and
bathrooms in a cellar, and I think the Town really needs
to…
I know it’s beyond your scope to change the
definitions or to revise them, but I think that that needs
to be looked at. Because of that, the floor area ratio is
out of whack. It’s really a 2,600 square foot house, and
it’s showing as 1,278, or actually on this table as 1,463
and a FAR of .14.
The other issue with this table is the lot size
of 10,000 square feet. Yes, you’re going to merge that, and
technically it’s 10,000 square feet, but really what is the
utility? It’s not 10,000 square feet. You’re looking at
something more like Laurel Mews.
Then I want to also address the balance in the
neighborhood and just in general. I think when I see these
things come before you and there are so many people and
neighbors against a project and they come over and over
again, that that should be considered.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you very much.
SHANNON SUSICK: Thanks. Any questions?
VICE CHAIR KANE: Any questions for the speaker?
Seeing none, I thank you again. Janet Carmona.
JANET CARMONA: Hi, good evening. My name is
Janet Carmona and I reside at 160 Maggi Court.
I urge you to deny the proposed development at
341 Bella Vista Avenue for the following reasons:
The architecture of this proposed development is
completely out of context with the neighborhood. It looks
like shipping containers with windows stacked on top of one
another, especially in this image. There is nothing like
this on Bella Vista. It is not compatible with the
neighborhood and it is not in harmony with the natural
setting. Furthermore, this proposed development has three
elevations, and I know you’ve seen these already.
According to the Mitigated Negative Declaration
and Initial Study prepared by the Town of Los Gatos
Community Development Department, it states on page 32,
Section 1-C, “Homes along the east side of Bella Vista
Avenue in the project vicinity are one and two stories, not
three. The Town of Los Gatos Hillside Standards prohibits
three-story elevations.”
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Also this home is simply too large. Removing one
residence does not make the other residence any less bulky,
which can be seen from impacted neighbors. I do not
understand why this proposed development is not smaller. A
smaller development would have less impact on the hillside
and at the same time reduce bulk and mass. According the
Town of Los Gatos Hillside Standards, page 36 states,
“Buildings shall be designed to minimize bulk, mass, and
volume so as not to be prominently visible from a distance,
or from the surrounding properties.” If you happen to have
visited Maggi Court, it would be evident that the bulk and
mass hanging from the hillside is immense.
Commissioners, I request that you listen to all
of the neighborhood concerns and deny this application.
Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Questions for the speaker? I
have one.
You provided us with a letter, Ms. Carmona, and
it says, “The proposed development exceeds the FAR.” As I
said to Mr. Tillman, I’m led to believe it doesn’t, so I’d
need to know why in your opinion it does, unless you’re
including the cellar.
JANET CARMONA: I am including the cellar.
VICE CHAIR KANE: We can’t do that.
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JANET CARMONA: There are bedrooms with
bathrooms.
VICE CHAIR KANE: It meets the definition of a
cellar currently.
JANET CARMONA: That’s unfortunate.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’m not saying it is or it
isn’t, I’m saying it meets the FAR according to those
calculations.
JANET CARMONA: I also noticed that the numbers
didn’t quite make sense. I could definitely speak about
that next time.
VICE CHAIR KANE: All right, thank you very much.
Questions for the speaker? Thank you.
Once again out of cards. If I in fact am out of
cards, the Applicant may re-approach and talk to us for
five minutes.
BARTON HECHTMAN: Thank you, Vice Chair Kane and
members of the Commission. I don’t think it will take the
full five minutes, and since it appears that it’s your will
to continue this I’m going to save really any sort of
direct rebuttal for when we reconvene, other than to point
out one thing that I’m sure you know.
The whole purpose of this process that we’re
engaged in is not to protect the neighborhood, it’s to
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apply the law as written; federal, state, and your local
ordinances; and to do that in a way that recognizes the
property rights of property owners and balances to some
extent those rights with the compatibility issues of the
neighbors, and so it’s really that balanced approach that
is the hallmark of this process.
I also wanted to thank Commissioner Hanssen for
possibly breaking the meeting logjam. What we would like to
do, and have a captive audience here to extend the
invitation, is between now and the next Planning Commission
hearing when this is reset, we would like to have a meeting
here in a conference room at Town Hall. Ms. Moseley has
agreed to be present for that, although it’s not a town-led
meeting, so she’d be in the background. We’d like to do
that, where we have a forum and we can hear concerns and
talk about addressing those concerns. What I would suggest
is if perhaps Ms. Moseley would take a sign-up sheet and we
could notify everyone when Staff picks a date and time to
propose, so we’d like to do that between now and the next
meeting.
The other thing, I’d like really some guidance
for this interim period from the Commissioners.
Commissioner Hudes was kind enough to really very
specifically identify a couple of things that we he wanted
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to know about and so we can make sure at the next hearing
that we’re ready. For example, we will have a geotech here
and will have specific answers on that mass and bulk
calculation. If there are other answers that the
Commissioners already know they want, voice them now. We’d
like to hear them so that we make sure we’re ready.
Also at that hearing, since there’s interest in
hearing from the geotech, which is Upp Geotechnology, we
also suggest the Town have present its own independent
geotechnical consultant who reviewed the work done by the
Applicant’s consultant and their statement concluded, “In
summary, we conclude that from a geologic and geotechnical
engineering perspective the site is suitable for the
proposed residential development.” I think it’s important
that you have your own peer review in geotech at that
continued hearing, and we’d ask that. It’s my understanding
that the Applicant pays for that, and so it would be no
cost to the Town, because it’s part of the application
process.
With that, I can answer any questions. Hopefully
you can tell all of us when our continued hearing date will
be.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: We’ll get around to defining
the date certain. On your suggestion that we attempt to
facilitate a meeting, Counselor, any problem with that?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Well, we’re very limited in
space, so we’ll have to see if we can do that, but we
really don’t have conference rooms. This building is used
almost every night; last night was Youth Commission,
tomorrow night there might be another meeting, local county
meetings, so we’d have to look to see it from an
administrative standpoint, but we can work to see if that’s
possible. Slow Rec has conference rooms too, so there might
be other places that could do it. No, we don’t have meeting
rooms at the library at all. Yeah, we can have meetings in
the foyer, but like I said, it is booked almost regularly,
but we can certainly take a look and see if we can
accommodate it.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Questions for the
speaker? Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Just to give a little more
guidance in terms of the kind of things that I would like
to discuss with the geotech engineer, and I think those are
questions I would probably also ask of the Town’s engineer,
and some of it was stated in the letter, but the questions
are: How will this improve slope stability? Specifically
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what aspects of the design? Will there be piers. What type?
Retaining wall? And I think we also heard with respect to
one of the residences nearby, would that impact their
retaining wall? So there are a series of questions about
the stability of the slope, ultimately kind of leading up
to the question that I have is: Will the hillside be more
stable with the house there, or as it is now? And we’re
looking at the entirety of that hillside.
The other area I think would be valuable to
understand, there are other comments that were made or
raised in letter that I think are concerns about the slope
of the driveway, the restricted view coming out of the
driveway onto the street.
So those are the kinds of things that were stated
tonight that I think would be helpful to get into a little
more depth.
BARTON HECHTMAN: Thank you. Appreciate the
comments.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: To continue on some items
that we would like for next time, one of the speakers asked
if we looked at construction; actually that’s my specialty.
I’m going to ask for whomever you consulted with on C-3 to
be present. I have a number of questions concerning the
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temporary access, the temporary grading that will need to
take place onsite, parking, traffic mitigation on Bella
Vista while you have…
There’s quite a bit of heavy machinery that’s
going to be required, and I’m going to ask that the
geotechnical engineer address those, particularly the fact
that you are driving five piles, as that typically has the
downward drive opposite effect on the stationary piece of
equipment, which I assume is going to be placed on the
street, so I’d like to see how that is going to be
addressed, along with the fact that that is a very narrow
street and I assume we’re going to have to have street
closures, how you plan to reroute traffic during that time.
Then probably on a lighter note, I just have to
compliment you. My children would have never sat here for
that long and that well.
BARTON HECHTMAN: Commissioner Burch, just so I
get the notes straight, the C-3 person present? Sheet C-3.
JOEL PAULSON: Sheet C-3.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Sheet C-3, and it’s T.S.
Civil Engineering.
BARTON HECHTMAN: Okay.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Normally a civil engineer
doesn’t necessarily create the construction plan, so that’s
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why I assume perhaps they consulted with someone, but
you’re on a very confined space with some very heavy
equipment that’s going to be required, so I know I’m going
to have a number of questions about how you’re going to
plan that with the least amount of impact to the street and
to the neighbors.
BARTON HECHTMAN: Thank you for the
clarification.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Sure.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I actually had the same
questions as Commissioner Burch.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Okay. Guidance. What I’m
hearing from the neighbors, and that’s a primary concern,
is smaller, less imposing, less intimidating, less
violating of privacy. I’m not sure I know how you’d do
that, so the word “smaller” comes to my mind.
A former Planning Commissioner, Lee Quintana, has
submitted a letter, and on page 3 of 8 she actually
addresses a number of concerns that potentially I could
address or the neighbors could have similar concerns, but
she’s more specific and she does a better job of defining
the word smaller than I can, and it might be a good
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guideline to take a look at that, the section on redesign
and the section on modification to consider.
I have a question. When I visited the site,
there’s a stone path between your property and the Maggi
Court residents, and the question came up: Would this
project in its construct or in its finality, because I
think some of this path goes over your property, cause the
path to be shut down?
BARTON HECHTMAN: The answer from Mr. Ross is no,
it’s not.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. I just need to get
that on the mike. There’s a gate that the children use and
they go up that way to Bella Vista and then go to school.
As far as you can tell, that pathway would continue to be
available to them?
BARTON HECHTMAN: Yes, Mr. Ross says it would be.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you very much. And as has
been mentioned on line of sight, I didn’t really think
about it, but cars backing up at that slope would probably
be on my mind next time we chat. I’m not sure how that
would be that safe. I’ll take another look at the property
and see if I could envision it better. Thank you very much.
Other questions? All right, seeing none, thank
you, sir.
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BARTON HECHTMAN: Thank you.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’m going to close the public
hearing for this meeting and look to the Commissioners to
try to specify, verbalize, what it is we want to do, and
then to try to get a date on which we will do it.
Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: If I heard my fellow
commissioners it sounds like there’s quite a bit of
information that we would still like to gather, so it
sounds like we want to move this to a date certain. It
sounds like that date certain is going to require that the
Applicant have available their geotechnical and civil
engineers. The Town has its geotechnical engineer who will
review the documents, and hopefully arborist is available
for that also. Knowing that, I think we may need to maybe
look for a head nod from the Applicant on how long that’s
going to take for them to gather any of that information.
VICE CHAIR KANE: When do we have available
dates?
JOEL PAULSON: We can look for the head nod.
Right now looking at the calendar on the wall, assuming
it’s going to take him maybe two to four weeks to pull that
information together, and then we have to prepare an
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additional Staff Report, May 25th is a suggestion I’d have,
and whether or not if that’s too short.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I need a head nod on May 25th.
Yes. I’m reopening the public hearing. I can do that.
BARTON HECHTMAN: Thank you. If I understood the
direction of the Commission, they want people present to
provide information, which we will endeavor to provide. I
don't know that there is an additional Staff Report that is
needed. We’ll bring the people here, they can answer your
questions directly, so we were looking at May 11th.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Commissioner Hudes,
would that satisfy your concerns?
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Yeah, whenever we can have
the opportunity to ask questions of the geotechnical and
receive information that we’ve requested tonight. It’s
really I think up to the Applicant as to whether they can
be ready in that time.
VICE CHAIR KANE: You all would be satisfied with
Q&As as opposed to documents? Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I know for me to get
comfortable I would need to know that the Applicant had met
with some of the residents to address their concerns,
because right now it’s a lot of negative, so I would have
that on my list as well.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: All right, thank you.
Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Just for information, I
will not be here on the earlier date. As you know, on the
27th of April we have another meeting, and then the
suggestion was perhaps the 11th, which is our regularly
scheduled Planning Commission meeting. After the 11th, the
next regularly scheduled meeting would be the 25th. My
presence is not crucial, but I want to advise I will be out
of the country on the 11th.
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Chair, I just look if
there are any other disclosures, if May 11th is not going to
work for any other Commissioners, then we may get to a
point where that’s not an option.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I will also be out of the
country. Not with Commissioner O'Donnell. I will also be
gone.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Your husband will be
happy to hear that.
VICE CHAIR KANE: So does that put us toward May
11th.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: I would strongly suggest you do
not do the May 11th with two Commissioners (inaudible).
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VICE CHAIR KANE: I’m sorry, actually I meant May
25th.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: So you should do the May 25th.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Erekson.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: Any of the dates are okay
with me, and when you’re finished discussing the dates, I
have another comment to make.
VICE CHAIR KANE: So 25th going once. We need a
motion to continue this matter to a date certain of May
25th.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I’ll move that we
continue the matter until the 25th of May, at which time the
testimony will still be open; however, the purpose of the
meeting, initially at least, is to receive further evidence
from the Applicant as we have described. But I want to be
clear that the public will then also have a right to
comment.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Do I have a second?
Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Second that motion.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Comment, discussion?
Commissioner Erekson.
COMMISSIONER EREKSON: While I would agree that
we wouldn’t need a lengthy Staff Report, I think for both
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the Commission and the public it would be important to
capture formally the direction coming from the Commission
so that both the Applicant has privy to that, and to give
the public heads up in adequate time so that they could
prepare whatever kind of responses or be satisfied or
however they would react to it, as opposed to just
depending upon what was said tonight and finding out on the
spot on May 25th.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Yeah, I would urge the
Applicant to provide documents, such as the one we received
tonight, in advance, both for the Commission’s benefit and
the public.
VICE CHAIR KANE: All right, thank you. Is that
okay with the maker of the motion and the seconder?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I absolutely agree,
because if the public is going to have any input, if they
know something in advance it allows them to have the input
if they show up and listen to it. It won’t be good for
either side. It’s better to know what’s coming. On the
other hand, we’re not asking for extensive reports, but it
ought to be enough for a real heads up.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Mr. Paulson, can we get that
all done?
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JOEL PAULSON: We can get that all done. Now all
we have to do is call the question.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Let’s call the question and
vote. All in favor of the motion? It passes unanimously.