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M 04-05-04TOWN OF LOS GATOS CALIFORNIA TOWN COUNCIL/PARKING AUTHORITY JOINT REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY APRIL 5, 2004 / MINUTES Los Gatos Civic Center 110 E. Main Street Los Gatos, CA 95030 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM 7:21 PM TOWN COUNCIL The Town Council/Parking Authority/Redevelopment Agency of the Town of Los Gatos met in the Council Chambers of the Town Hall, 110 East Main Street, at 7:21 p.m., Monday, April 5, 2004, in a joint regular session. 7:21 PM ROLL CALL Present:Sandy Decker, Diane McNutt, Joe Pirzynski, Mike Wasserman and Mayor/Chairman Glickman. Absent:None 7:22 PM PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE The audience was invited to participate in the Pledge of Allegiance. 7:23 PM CLOSED SESSION Town Attorney, Orry Korb, reported that Council had met in Closed Session prior to this evening’s meeting pursuant to Government Code Section 54956.9(a) regarding Conference with Legal Counsel concerning Pending Litigation in the cases of George Garcia vs The Town of Los Gatos and Tony Gonzales vs. The Town of Los Gatos. Council gave direction to Counsel. There was no reportable action taken. 7:23 PM APPOINTMENTS APPOINTMENTS COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMISSION Mayor Glickman announced that two applications had been received from Maggie Vondras and Barry Waitte for the two vacancies on the Community Services Commission. Voting was held and Ms Vondras and Mr. Waitte were appointed to terms ending January 1, 2007. PARKS COMMISSION Mayor Glickman announced that four applications had been received from Dave Dockter, Graham Burrows, John Bourgeois and Richard Aycock for the two vacancies on the Parks Commission. Voting was held and Mr. Burrows and Mr. Bourgeois were appointed to terms ending April 1, 2008. 7:23 PM APPOINTMENTS APPOINTMENTS CONTINUED RENT ADVISORY COMMITTEE Mayor Glickman announced that one application had been received from Susan Fish for the one vacancy on the Rent Advisory Commission. Voting was held and Ms Fish was reappointed to term ending 3/01/07. 7:26 CONSENT ITEMS CONSENT ITEMS N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 1 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM PM ITEM 1 SCHEDULE OF PUBLIC HEARINGS Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council accept and file informational report regarding currently scheduled public hearings. (01.28) ITEM 2 PAYROLL RATIFICATION FOR MARCH Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council ratify the check register for payroll of February 29, 2004 through March 13, 2004 paid on March 20, 2004 in the amount of $534,958.00. Carried unanimously. (02.V) ITEM 3 ACCOUNTS PAYABLE RATIFICATION FOR MARCH Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council ratify the check register for accounts payable invoices paid on March 12, 2004 and March 19, 2004 in the amount of $312,422.49. Carried unanimously. (03.V) ITEM 4 AGENDA FORMAT AND RULES Resolution 2004-33 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-33 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS AMENDING TOWN COUNCIL AGENDA FORMAT AND RULES. Carried unanimously. (04.12) ITEM 5 SILICON VALLEY ANIMAL CONTROL PURCHASE OF PROPERTY Resolution 2004-34 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-34 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS AUTHORIZING AN AGREEMENT AMONG THE SILICON VALLEY ANIMAL CONTROL AUTHORITY AND ITS MEMBER CITIES REGARDING PURCHASE OF THOMAS ROAD PROPERTY. Carried unanimously. (05.36) ITEM 6 COMMUNITY GRANT FUNDS This Item was pulled to be discussed after the Public Hearings. 7:26 CONSENT ITEMS CONSENT ITEMS CONTINUED ITEM 7 NATIONAL ARBOR DAY OBSERVANCE Resolution 2004-36 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-36 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS PROCLAIMING NATIONAL ARBOR DAY OBSERVANCE. Carried unanimously. (07.33) ITEM 8 TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS This Item was pulled to be discussed after the Public Hearings. ITEM 9 LOCAL STREETS COUNTY ROADS Resolution 2004-37 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-37 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS AUTHORIZING TOWN MANAGER TO APPLY FOR GRANT FUNDS FROM SANTA CLARA COUNTY LOCAL STREETS AND COUNTY ROADS (LS&CR) FUND PROGRAM. Carried unanimously. (09.23) ITEM 10 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 2 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM LAND AND LIGHT ASSESSMENT DISTRICTS 1 & 2 Resolution 2004-38 adopt Resolution 2004-38 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS DESCRIBING IMPROVEMENTS AND DIRECTING PREPARATION OF ENGINEER’S REPORT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2004-2005 TOWN OF LOS GATOS LANDSCAPING AND LIGHTING ASSESSMENT DISTRICTS 1 & 2. Carried unanimously. (10.26) ITEM 11 PROJECT 0349 CURB, GUTTER & SIDEWALK REPLACEMENT Resolution 2004-39 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-39 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS AWARDING A CONSTRUCTION CONTRACT IN THE AMOUNT OF $184,925.00 WITH JJR CONSTRUCTION, INC. FOR PROJECT 0349 - CURB, GUTTER, AND SIDEWALK REPAIR AND REPLACEMENT FOR FISCAL YEAR 2003-2004, and authorizing staff to issue change orders to the construction contract up to an amount of $80,000. Carried unanimously. (11.24) ITEM 12-B 15047 LOS GATOS BOULEVARD Ordinance 2129 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Ordinance 2129 entitled, ORDINANCE OF THE TOWN OF LOS GATOS AMENDING THE ZONING ORDINANCE EFFECTING A ZONE CHANGE FROM CH TO CH:PD AT 15047 LOS GATOS BOULEVARD, which was introduced at the Council meeting of March 15, 2004. Carried unanimously. (12B.15) 7:26 CONSENT ITEMS CONSENT ITEMS CONTINUED ITEM 12-A 15047 LOS GATOS BOULEVARD PLANNED DEVELOPMENT Resolution 2004-40 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-40 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS GRANTING AN APPEAL OF THE PLANNING COMMISSION DENYING A ZONE CHANGE REQUEST OF A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT FROM CH TO CH:PD TO CONSTRUCT AN OFFICE BUILDING AND ARCHITECTURE AND SITE APPROVAL TO DEMOLISH A SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE. PLANNED DEVELOPMENT APPLICATION PD-04-2: ARCHITECTURE AND SITE APPLICATION S-04-5: NEGATIVE DECLARATION ND-04-1: PROPERTY LOCATION 15047 LOS GATOS BOULEVARD: ASSESSOR’S PARCEL NUMBER 424-07-087:PROPERTY OWNER, JOSCO PROPERTIES: APPLICANT: JOHN LIEN. Carried unanimously. (12A.15) 7:26 REDEVELOPMENT REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY ITEM 13 ACCOUNTS PAYABLE RATIFICATION Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that the Agency ratify the check register for accounts payable invoices paid on March 12, 2004 and March 19, 2004 in the amount of $35,387.16. Carried unanimously. (13.V) 7:26 COUNCIL/AGENCY TOWN COUNCIL/REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY ITEM 14-A MINUTES MARCH 15, 2004 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that the Town Council/Redevelopment Agency approve the Minutes of the Joint Regular Meeting of March 15, 2004. Carried unanimously. (14- A.V) N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 3 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM ITEM 14-B MINUTES MARCH 18, 2004 Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that the Town Council/Redevelopment Agency approve the Minutes of the Joint Regular Meeting of March 18, 2004 as submitted. Carried unanimously. (14-B.V) ITEM 15 TDA FUNDING Resolutions 2004-41 & 2004-4RD Motion by Mrs. Decker, seconded by Mr. Wasserman, that Council adopt Resolutions 2004-41 & 2004-4RDentitled, RESOLUTION OF THE TOWN COUNCIL/REDEVELOPMENT AGENCY OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS AUTHORIZING TOWN MANAGER/EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR TO APPLY FOR TRANSPORTATION DEVELOPMENT ACT (TDA) ARTICLE 3 FUNDING. Carried unanimously. (15.41) 7:30 PM COMMUNICATIONS VERBAL COMMUNICATIONS 7:30 PM SPEAKER Ray Davis noted that he did not stand for the pledge of allegiance because he believes that he was unfairly arrested at the Civic Center for disturbing the peace. He addressed the Greenbrier development in relation to the Hillside Plan. He also spoke of safe routes to schools for children and noted Los Gatos Boulevard and Shannon Road crossing. 7:33 PM SPEAKER Chris Miller representing the Pony League and Little League thanked Council for the recycle containers that have been placed in the parks. 7:35 PM SPEAKER Chris Delaossa thanked Council for holding a Town Meeting in the Rinconada Neighborhood and listening to their concerns. He asked that some of their priorities be considered in this year’s budget. 7:38 PM SPEAKER Isabel Guerra spoke of the Rinconada neighborhood and of traffic safety, drainage problems and need for a sidewalk along Wedgewood and the Country Club. 7:41 PM SPEAKER Janice Reynolds spoke of traffic calming and services that the Town could offer her neighborhood on Wedgewood. She noted that the drainage ditch continues to present problems and she has not seen a street sweeper in her area in over 20 years. 7:44 PM SPEAKER Ken Reynolds also requested street improvements in his neighborhood and other Town services that the Town Meeting had helped identify. 7:45 PM PUBLIC HEARING PUBLIC HEARING 7:45 PM ITEM 16 20 S. SANTA CRUZ COLD STONE CREAMERY 20 SOUTH SANTA CRUZ AVENUE/USE PERMIT/APPEAL COLD STONE CREAMERY APPLICATION Mayor Glickman announced that this was the time and place duly noticed for holding a public hearing to consider an appeal of a Planning Commission decision denying an application to convert a portion of a former restaurant (Swenson’s) to another restaurant use (Cold Stone Creamery) on property zoned C-2. APN 510-45-075. Conditional Use Permit U-04-8. Property Location: 20 S. Santa Cruz Ave. Property Owner: Park Row East Apartments, Ltd. Applicant/Appellant: Catherine G. Asbun N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 4 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM STAFF REPORT Bud Lortz, Community Development Director, spoke of conditional uses and what is required to move forward on this proposal. SPEAKERS FOR ITEM 16 HEARING CONT. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED THE FOLLOWING 12 SPEAKERS FROM THE AUDIENCE ADDRESSED 20 S. SANTA CRUZ/COLD STONE CREAMERY 7:48 PM SPEAKER Catherine Asbun, Applicant/Appellant, presented the benefits of her proposal in this location. She spoke of customer service, superior product, and ice cream sold where ice cream has been sold for many years before. She discussed the blend of the old time historic quality with the new more modern business presentation, and also noted that she employs many local high school students who enjoy the public relations aspect of this service. She brought up the ambiance of an old town ice cream business located in the heart of the downtown and noted that she would not be carrying gelato and no more than vanilla yogurt. She also discussed parking arrangements for employees. 8:01 PM SPEAKER Brenda Hammond, representing the Chamber of Commerce, spoke in support of the project and explained that parking would present a challenge no matter what business moved into that location. 8:03 PM SPEAKER Alan Caras spoke of the prior sale of ice cream in the downtown and supported this application. 8:05 PM SPEAKER John Feece, Lyndon Plaza Building Owner, spoke in support of Cold Stone Creamery, and addressed some of the parking concerns. 8:07 PM SPEAKER Caleb Yi, owner of TCBY, spoke of the time he has been in Town, and requested support for his business. He asked that Council uphold the Planning Commission’s decision. 8:10 PM SPEAKER Tima Nezarati, spoke of her yogurt business and the competition of Cold Stone impacting her operations, and asked that Council limit franchises opening in Los Gatos. 8:13 PM SPEAKER Cameron Sampson, teenage employee of Cold Stone, spoke of the upbeat atmosphere in which young people can visit, socialize and have a nicely served dessert. 8:15 PM SPEAKER Laura Moore, owner of ISLG, spoke of the mix of franchises and independent stores in the downtown, noting that they all were necessary for the appropriate mix of successful businesses. 8:18 PM SPEAKER George Sampson spoke of the success of chain stores with a balanced mix of independents in the downtown. 8:21 PM SPEAKER Chuck Novillo spoke in support of Cold Stone Creamery and free enterprise. SPEAKERS FOR ITEM 16 HEARING CONT. PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED THE FOLLOWING SPEAKERS FROM THE AUDIENCE ADDRESSED 20 S. SANTA CRUZ/COLD STONE CREAMERY 8:22 PM SPEAKER Ray Davis spoke on the decision of the Planning Commission and asked why a representative from the Planning Commission was not present to give the Commission’s view and decision on this matter. N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 5 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM 8:25 PM SPEAKER Keith Plottel spoke in support of Cold Stone Creamery and the fairness issue regarding enough businesses for everyone. He believes that competition takes care of itself in an open market. 8:28 PM SPEAKER Rosalie Feece, co-owner of Lyndon Plaza, spoke of shopping where her needs are met, and that formula stores meet those needs with a consistent product. She noted that after finding the needed items she spends time in adjacent novelty stores to purchase specialty items in the one-of-a-kind shops. 8:31 PM SPEAKER Catherine Asbun, Applicant/Appellant, closed her statements by reaffirming her desire to complement the downtown ambiance. Her bank and business associates understand her radius of business and she reaffirmed that she is strictly an ice cream establishment. 8:34 PM PUBLIC HEARING CLOSED Mayor Glickman closed the public hearing. ITEM 16 MOTION Motion by Mr. Wasserman, seconded by Mrs. Decker, to grant the appeal: (Motion opened for discussion) 8:35 PM COUNCIL COMMENTS ON MOTION ITEM 16 Council Comments on the Motion: * Planning Commission looks at the land issues involved * Council reviews policy issues and this is a Council Policy issue * Council thanked the Commission for its thorough work on this item * This ice cream store is half the size it was before * This store is a franchise that replaces the same type of franchise * A formula retail store must obtain a conditional use permit * Maintain a mix of formula and specialty stores in the downtown * Make use of language that maintains balance * Businesses thrive within competitive atmosphere * Five similar ice cream, yogurt, and gelato stores are not too many * Shoppers visit different stores to locate a variety of similar products * Request that the owner tie the business to the activities in the park and to the historic nature of this section of town. * Note that spontaneous singing offered by the teen employees is not considered live entertainment as mentioned in condition #8 8:35 PM ITEM 16 CONTINUED COUNCIL COMMENTS ON MOTION PUBLIC HEARING CONTINUED–COUNCIL COMMENTS 20 S. SANTA CRUZ/COLD STONE CREAMERY * Franchise businesses are established offering corporate help and support to local small business men as they get started on their own * The owner volunteered to only serve ice creams, no gelato and only one vanilla yogurt flavor. (Mrs. Decker requested that this offer be reflected in the record.) ITEM 16 FINDINGS Mr. Wasserman made the following findings: That the proposed use of the property is essential and desirable to the public convenience and welfare in that it is beneficial to the Town’s economic vitality, employs local residents and provides revenue to the Town; That the proposed use will not impair the integrity and character of the zone in that the tenant improvements are an upgrade of the unit, both the interior and exterior; That the proposed use would not be detrimental to public N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 6 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM health, safety or general welfare with this type of business; and That the proposed uses of the property are in harmony with the various elements or objectives of the General Plan and the purposes of the Town Code as the Town looks at economic vitality, the upgrades of its structures and the maintenance of a balanced mix of businesses. 8:56 PM STAFF RESPONSE TO COUNCIL ITEM 16 Bud Lortz, Community Development Director, spoke of applications and requests for restaurants in the downtown. He noted that staff reviewed these requests and inquiries very carefully with the prospective applicants and during these discussions the applicants hear the concerns and guidelines of Council that are used by staff. The Planning Department does a lot to inform any new inquirers about the policies for new restaurants in the downtown. 8:58 PM CALLED FOR THE QUESTION ITEM 16 COLDSTONE CREAMERY Mayor Glickman called for the question. Motion by Mr. Wasserman, seconded by Mrs. Decker, to grant the appeal, and require the applicant to work with staff on exterior signage that incorporates elements of Los Gatos history and compatibility with the downtown park. Carried unanimously. 8:59 PM RECESS Mayor Glickman called a five minute recess. 9:05 PM ITEM 6 SPEAKER ALLOCATION OF COMMUNITY GRANT FUNDS AND CDBG FUNDS Resolution 2004-35 ALLOCATION OF COMMUNITY GRANT FUNDS AND COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANTS (CDBG) Lee Fagot, spoke of the many services provided by these grants and asked Council to keep the funding at the level of prior years. Motion by Mr. Pirzynski, seconded by Mrs. Decker, that Council refer allocation of the 2004-2005 General Fund Grants to the 2004- 2005 Operating Budget and that Council adopt Resolution 2004-35 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS ALLOCATING COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT BLOCK GRANT (CDBG) FUNDS TO THE TOWN OF LOS GATOS FOR FISCAL YEAR 2004-2005. Carried unanimously. (06.39) 9:10 PM ITEM 8 SPEAKER TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS Resolution 2004-43 TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS FUNDING CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION Ray Davis asked that traffic safety issues be addressed for children and pedestrians at cross walks and in areas where there may be a history of accidents. He requested additional electronic signage. Motion by Mr. Pirzynski, seconded by Mr. Glickman, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-43 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS CONCERNING FEDERAL AND/OR STATE FUNDING FOR CERTAIN TRANSPORTATION PROJECTS THROUGH THE STATE DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION. Carried unanimously. (08.41) N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 7 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM 9:14 PM ITEM 17 SPEAKERS YOUTH COMMISSION ESTABLISHED YOUTH COMMISSION ESTABLISHED Chris Miller spoke in support of the Youth Commission formation and asked that its membership be inclusive, outreaching to home schoolers, and those who don’t readily come forward on their own to apply. He noted the committee report that has been written and the anticipation of developing the ideas and goals that were developed. He stressed again using all avenues of outreach to contact eligible applicants for the commission. Lee Fagot requested that Council reach out and look for kids that would like to participate and could bring back ideas that could percolate through the schools and enfold others in the program. 9:14 PM ITEM 17 YOUTH COMMISSION ESTABLISHED COUNCIL COMMENTS APPOINTMENT Resolution 2004-42 YOUTH COMMISSION ESTABLISHED CONTINUED Council Disscussion: * Have committee interview teens and bring forward committee’s recommendation to Council for ratification. * Encourage Commissioners to attend State and National Youth Seminars and Conferences to gain a greater perspective on the opportunities afforded to them. * Encourage teens to take more leadership roles in their community. * Have terms expire in March instead of July and do all recruitment in March. * Have new Commissions take their seats in June and be ready for work in the fall * Outreach is a priority and the Town’s website can also be used Mayor Glickman asked Ms McNutt to serve with him on the sub- committee for the appointments to the commission and she accepted. Motion by Mr. Glickman, seconded by Ms McNutt, that Council adopt Resolution 2004-42 entitled, RESOLUTION OF TOWN OF LOS GATOS ESTABLISHING A YOUTH COMMISSION. Carried unanimously. (17.12) 9:42 PM ITEM 18 DOWNTOWN GATEWAY DESIGNS DOWNTOWN GATEWAY DESIGNS Kevin Rohani, Town Engineer, and Ron Fletcher, Gateway Design Consultant, described the two designs that were submitted by the Downtown Gateway Design Working Group. One was for the Wood Road area as cars exit from Highway 17, and the other was at the cross roads of Santa Cruz Avenue and Los Gatos - Saratoga Road. COUNCIL COMMENTS ITEM 18 GATEWAYS Council Comments: * Council found the designs to be simple, elegant, restrained and not overpowering. * Council would like to implement the proposals but the budget does not allow for this now. * Council suggests community involvement, contributions, and grants. * Council prefers to keep both projects together and not to shelve one N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 8 TIME ITEM ACTION ON ITEM while working on the other. * Council asks for a clear focus and work plan to start the projects through the process looking for funding along the way. GATEWAYS DOWNTOWN GATEWAY DESIGNS CONTINUED 10:15 PM SPEAKERS ITEM 18 GATEWAYS SPEAKERS: Ray Davis spoke of the removal of the traffic islands in the new gateway proposal at Santa Cruz and Highway 9. Chris Miller supported the designs and proposals of the Downtown Gateway Design Working Group and asked that gateways be considered in other locations of Town such as a Blossom Hill location and also at University Avenue. Len Pacheco shared thoughts from the Group Committee and spoke of Phase Two which would include the over-crossing on Main Street and smaller features extended throughout Town. He also spoke of volunteers who would offer services to complete this project. 10:38 PM COUNCIL CONSENSUS ITEM 18 GATEWAYS Council Consensus to proceed with the conclusions presented in the staff report; with staff and Council looking for donations, contributions, grants and volunteers; and realizing the Town is in difficult economic times but there is a need and desire to move forward on the project which will begin in 2006. 10:39P M ITEM 19 COUNCIL MATTERS DISCUSSION ON COLON CANCER FREE ZONE Council discussed this subject and determined that the Town of Los Gatos could proclaim that it was working toward or striving to become a colon cancer free zone along with the cities of Monte Sereno and Saratoga. That our web site and literature would educate on the subject, encourage screening and offer consciousness raising materials. Staff to bring forth additional promotional information and suggestions for Council’s consideration. 10:49 PM ITEM 20 MANAGER MATTERS There were no issues to be discussed this evening under this item. 10:50 PM ADJOURNMENT Mayor Glickman adjourned this evening’s meeting at 10:50 PM N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 9 Town Council Minutes April 5, 2004 Redevelopment Agency Los Gatos, California ATTEST: Marian V. Cosgrove Town Clerk Secretary to the Redevelopment Agency N:\CLK\A MARIAN'S FILE\Draft Minutes\4MM-04-05-04.wpd 10