Attachment 03LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 7/26/2017
Item #4, 26 Alpine Avenue
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Tom O'Donnell, Chair
D. Michael Kane, Vice Chair
Mary Badame
Kendra Burch
Melanie Hanssen
Matthew Hudes
Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Robert Schultz
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(510) 337-1558
ATTACHMENT 3
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR O'DONNELL: We move on to Item 4, which is
Architecture and Site Application S-16-052, and Mitigated
Negative Declaration ND-17-001. The property is at 26
Alpine Avenue. That is the description, and now I’ll ask
for a Staff Report. Ms. Puga.
JOCELYN PUGA: Good evening, Chair and
Commissioners.
The project site is a vacant lot located
approximately 300’ north of East Main Street. The Applicant
is proposing to construct a new single-family home with
1,993 square feet of living floor area, a 1,439 square foot
cellar, and 415 square foot attached garage. The proposed
home would be accessed from an existing curb cut along
Alpine Avenue.
The Town’s consulting architect reviewed the
project and noted that while the architectural style is
different than those in the immediate neighborhood, the
scale of the home would be complimentary to the streetscape
of Alpine.
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The property proposes to remove 12 protected
trees, of which one is considered to be a large protected
tree, and retain 44 existing trees.
An existing stream runs along the western portion
of the property. Pursuant to the Guidelines and Standards
For Land Use Near Streams, a setback between 25-30’ from
the top of bank is recommended.
The Applicant is proposing a 26’-10” setback from
the top of bank to a cantilevered deck, and an approximate
30’ setback to the building.
Due to the average slope of the lot, the site is
subject to Chapters 2, 3, and Section 6 of Chapter 6 of the
Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines. The
Applicant is requesting an exception to the Least
Restrictive Development Area, and this is due to the slope
of the lot. A majority of the area with a slope less than
30% is located within the required front setback, left side
setback, or within the recommended setbacks from the top of
bank.
An Initial Study and Mitigated Negative
Declaration were prepared for the application, and all
potential impacts were reduced to less than significant
with mitigation.
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Staff recommends that the Planning Commission
review the findings contained in Exhibit 3 and consider
approval of the project with the proposed Conditions of
Approval in Exhibit 4. There is a Desk Item before you this
evening that contains a response to comments received on
the environmental document, letters of support for the
project, and additional public comments received after the
distribution of the Staff Report.
This concludes Staff’s presentation, and we are
available with Staff from the Parks and Public Works for
questions.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, before we ask
questions, which we’ll do, can I just see a show of hands
of those of you who have visited the property? So all of us
have visited the property. Commissioner Badame, you have a
question?
CHAIR BADAME: I have two questions, if I may,
Chair?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Sure.
CHAIR BADAME: All right. I need to confirm the
square footage of the cellar, the reason being that page 5
of the Staff Report, under the Analysis section, describes
a 1,439 square foot cellar with a 415 square foot garage.
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Exhibit 15, A-0, describes a 1,635 square foot cellar with
a 414 square foot garage. So which is the correct one?
JOCELYN PUGA: The Staff Report had a small
error. A portion of the garage is also considered a cellar,
because it’s buried and not exposed more than 4’, and so if
you look at Exhibit 15 on the cover sheet the Applicant
breaks down the square footage of what’s considered
countable in cellar, and you can see the 143 square feet of
the garage is considered cellar, so the garage would be 143
square feet, plus the 415, which is a total of 557.
CHAIR BADAME: I’m sorry, those numbers still
don’t add up for me.
JOCELYN PUGA: The cellar floor area of 1,493,
you would add 143 square feet to that. The 143 square feet
is coming from the garage.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: For reference, are you
referencing Sheet A-0 of the drawing set?
JOCELYN PUGA: Yes. Sheet A-0 of Exhibit 15.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Under Area Tabulations. Am I
looking in the correct spot?
JOCELYN PUGA: Yes.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, Commissioner
Badame, we want you to be satisfied.
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CHAIR BADAME: Yeah, when I add those numbers
together, I still get 1,635 square feet of cellar space.
JOCELYN PUGA: That’s correct.
CHAIR BADAME: Okay, so when I look at page 5, it
says it’s a 1,439 square foot cellar, so it’s really 1,635
square feet of cellar when you consider the cellar that’s
in the garage.
JOCELYN PUGA: That’s correct. It’s erroneous.
You need to add the 143 square feet.
CHAIR BADAME: Okay, thank you. And now onto my
second question. Page 6 of the Staff Report, under Grading,
indicates a significant removal of soil, over 1,500 cubic
yards, so I imagine that’s a pretty significant cut into
the hill, and it’s a pretty steep slope from the back. So
where can I find the cut numbers to see if they match up to
the Hillside Standards and Guidelines?
JOCELYN PUGA: If you look at Exhibit 15,
beginning on Sheet A-42 you see a section on the proposed
left side elevation where they’re labeling where the
existing grade is, and this continues on Sheet A-50 where
they provide sections where Staff is able to evaluate the
proposed cut and fill to make sure that they’re in
compliance with our Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines.
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CHAIR BADAME: So how deep of a cut is it?
There’s an 8’ maximum cut that’s allowed, so what is the
cut?
JOCELYN PUGA: The Hillside Development Standards
and Guidelines allow the 8’ cut for the home to be exceeded
if a cellar is proposed, which they are proposing. Let me
get you the deepest cut for the cellar.
CHAIR BADAME: Okay. I thought that excluded the
cellar, and if you’ve got a floor level that’s not just a
cellar, that’s also a floor level, that is excluded?
JOCELYN PUGA: So if you look at Table 1 in
Chapter 2 of the Hillside Development Standards and
Guidelines, there is an asterisk. There are two asterisks,
and it says that it excluded the cellar, the cut. Do you
have the Hillside Development Standards and Guidelines? I
can give you the page number.
CHAIR BADAME: I have them as well.
JOCELYN PUGA: Okay, it’s page 17.
CHAIR BADAME: All right, I guess I just take
issue, because it excludes the cellar, but you still have a
floor level that’s partially not a cellar, so it’s part of
the house, so you still need a cut for that portion of the
house that co-exists with a so-called cellar, so we’re just
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saying we’re still going to exclude that floor level,
because part of it is a cellar and it can exceed the cut?
JOEL PAULSON: It can exceed the cut pursuant to
the guidelines. Once it gets to basement, then it can’t
exceed 8’. So the cut for the basement portion can’t exceed
8’. When you have a cellar, then you can go more than 8’,
and so that’s where sometimes it gets buried in. I’m not
sure, I don’t see Mr. Bagley or Ms. Petersen from Parks and
Public Works; we were expecting them to be here this
evening, but we can get further clarification on that
depending on what the outcome is this evening.
CHAIR BADAME: That would be helpful. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: As I understand the
problem, and help me along, but you’re saying that’s fine
on the clearly cellar part, but insofar as the cellar is
part of the larger area, it seems that the larger area is
being carried along, is that what you’re asking?
CHAIR BADAME: That’s exactly. That’s exactly.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I think the answer to
that is correct, and that’s okay.
CHAIR BADAME: I guess it’s subject to
interpretation, but thank you.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: And we’ll also, if need
be, ask Counsel for essentially the Town’s interpretation.
Okay, Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Thank you. I have a few
questions for Staff, but I’ll concentrate on just one area
first. In terms of history, this property has been before
the Planning Commission and the Town Council a number of
times, I believe, and in the report it refers to 2009
activity as the most recent, and it says that, “The project
be modified as the Planning Commission requested to reduce
the mass of the right elevation,” and that Applicant work
with Staff. Was there any specific direction in terms of
how much reduction this property needed to receive, or
either specific or general direction about how much
reduction was necessary, based on the 2009?
JOCELYN PUGA: No, and the Town Council’s motion
from 2009, they didn’t give a specific number or percentage
that they wanted to see that elevation reduced.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Do you have a follow up?
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Just on this topic. So being
that Staff has been around this for some time, does Staff
feel that this is consistent with the direction to reduce
the mass, that there is enough of a reduction that it’s
consistent?
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JOCELYN PUGA: Yes, Staff is comfortable with the
reduced elevation. Staff did compare this planning
application with those that were approved in 2009 and there
was a significant reduction in the amount of grading that
this application proposed. There is also a significant
reduction in the retaining walls that this application
propped, and the right elevation, and that’s what was part
of Staff’s analysis.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: This might be a question
for the Applicant as well, but one of the big issues with
this property is it’s very heavily tree covered, and there
was the arborist report from the Applicant, and then also
our Town Arborist looked at the report and commented on it.
But what I read, it was a real arborist report,
except for one thing that I was hoping to see, which is
that the current location of the house was the very best
one for minimizing the number of trees. And I read the
architect’s report, and the architect basically said we
looked at all these factors and this is really the best
place to locate it.
So my question is, is this the best siting of the
house for minimizing the amount of trees that have to be
removed? And I realize that there are still more trees left
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on the property than in many we see, but it’s still a lot
of protected trees, and that’s a big issue for some of the
neighbors.
JOCELYN PUGA: Typically our consulting arborist
reports. We don’t ask for them to comment on whether the
house location is appropriate; they’re really, truly
evaluating the proposed home and its impacts onto those
trees adjacent. I think that that question you’re posing
would probably be best answered by the Applicant in how
they came up with the design and the constraints of the lot
and why they got to this place.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Badame.
CHAIR BADAME: I walked the property, and I know
that we’ve been given information that the average slope is
41%. I find that really difficult to believe, especially
when you go to the back side of the lot. I mean that is a
cliff, and it looks more like 100% to me, so did we verify
this information?
JOCELYN PUGA: Our engineering division reviews
the plans. They review the civil drawings. We have a
geotechnical report that our Town consultant has also peer
reviewed and found the information to be accurate.
CHAIR BADAME: And that was based on the
Applicant’s presentation?
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JOCELYN PUGA: That was based on the civil
drawing prepared by the Applicant’s team, and geotechnical
information that the Town peer reviewed and reviewed
itself.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Let’s just clarify that,
because I take the question to be how do they double check?
Somebody submits plans. Commissioner Badame said she went
to the property and found, what in her opinion, seems more
than 41%, and I understand you to say they did all the
normal checking. I guess what I’m wondering, and maybe
she’s wondering, how does one verify other than looking at
the plans? We’re going to get an answer from whom? Thank
you.
KEVIN BAGLEY: Kevin Bagley, Assistant Engineer.
The average slope, as Jocelyn mentioned, was double checked
by our geotechnical peer reviewer. We used the provided
survey information and the lengths of the contour lines to
double check that average slope for the lot.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: What was the latter part
of that? The length of which lines?
KEVIN BAGLEY: The contour lines.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay. But the Applicant
prepared all those?
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KEVIN BAGLEY: That is true, but our peer
consultant reviewed it. But, yes, you are right, the
Applicant provided it.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: We’re merely trying to
determine the internal accuracy of the document, not the
document versus the real world?
JOEL PAULSON: That’s correct. We don’t go out
and do our own survey and just shoot our own topography of
every site.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: And I’m not suggesting
that you need to, I just wanted to make that…because that
was a point of question, I think. Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Sorry, I didn’t get your name
or department.
KEVIN BAGLEY: Kevin Bagley, Engineering, BPR.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: As a follow up to that, it’s
very hard to assess, I think, just average, but what is the
percent slope where the home is being proposed?
KEVIN BAGLEY: I believe one of the documents
shows the percent of the hill, and that is within the LRDA,
so a good portion of the site is less than 30%, but not the
entire site as shown in the exhibit.
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COMMISSIONER HUDES: What I’m interested in is
what is the slope that corresponds to the footprint of the
house?
KEVIN BAGLEY: I do not have that information
available to me right now.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: It seems to me, just from
observing, that it’s significantly greater than 41%, if 41%
is average. Has Staff visited the site, and does Staff have
an opinion about that?
JOEL PAULSON: Of course Staff has visited the
site; they visit all sites. There may be a difference
between the average slope of the entire lot, which
obviously is a bigger area. We will see if we can find any
data that specifically deals with the average slope of the
building area, and if not, the Applicant may have some of
that information as well, or that’s something else that we
can try to ascertain.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I apologize if I implied
that Staff isn’t visiting sites.
JOEL PAULSON: No, and so I think the other piece
is that because there is a big portion of the LRDA that’s
here, but there is some that’s out of it, once you have
that smaller area you can end up with a slope that is in
excess of the average slope, for sure.
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COMMISSIONER HUDES: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Staff, we have a letter from a
citizen who has experience in land use law, and it was his
opinion that a 1,550 cubic yard cut was enormous and
inappropriate. I remember a former planning commissioner
had expertise on the grading of slopes on page 17, and I
remembered that, I read the letter, and it’s just a lot of
dirt coming out of there, and only 30 cubic yards is going
to be used onsite, so all of that has got to be hauled off.
I went further with this analysis and said
cellars are in lieu of visible mass, and I thought on this
project there is no more visible mass; they’re maxed out.
So how do I apply that? I mean if they’re at max square
feet above ground, they can’t go any further, so why would
a 1,550 cut have any beneficial fact when it’s not in lieu
of visible mass? There is no more visible mass possible is
my argument. How would you view that argument?
JOEL PAULSON: I’ll take a shot, and then if Ms.
Puga has anything to offer. You’re free to take that into
consideration. We don’t have any data that says this house
has this much cut; this house has that much cut. I would
say it’s not atypical for a house in the hillsides, or even
in the flatlands, as a cellar to have close to 1,000 cubic
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yards of cut, but I don’t have any empirical data to give
you that might be of benefit.
VICE CHAIR KANE: The application there would be
in lieu of visible mass. This is not in lieu of visible
mass, because there can’t be any more invisible mass, and I
exaggerate to make a point. They’re maxed out.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: That’s not a question;
that’s a statement. Do you have a question?
VICE CHAIR KANE: I wondered if he had a comment
on that. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you. The Staff,
however, has made a recommendation of approval, have you
not?
JOEL PAULSON: That’s correct.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, thank you.
Other questions? If not, I think we’re just starting with
the Applicant. Seems like a long time, but I’ll call the
Applicant. Please identify yourself and your business
address.
TOBY COREY: Hello and good evening, Planning
Commission, friends, neighbors, and Los Gatos community
members. For those that don’t know our family, I’m Toby
Corey, my wife of 33 years, Susan Corey, and our daughters
Alexandra and Jordan.
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We’ve lived in Los Gatos for 25 years and raised
our family here. We also lived next door to 26 Alpine
Avenue for 15 years, so we know the neighborhood and the
property extremely well, and we’re excited to build our
dream retirement home there.
If you haven't already read the letter we
submitted as part of the permitting submission, please do
so. There is important design and background information
contained in it.
Let me first begin with some important context.
Barry Barnes, a developer, purchased the 26 Alpine Ave
property over ten years ago. We supported the construction
of a new home from the beginning and made careful notes of
the concerns and issues as Barry traversed through the Los
Gatos Planning Commission process.
The biggest issue we witnessed was the developer
tried to build a flatland style home on a hillside, and
this design required extensive retaining walls up the
hillside towards the adjacent Alpine Avenue property,
combined with significant grading, plus a large retaining
wall for a driveway toward the adjacent Jackson Avenue
property. This type of home, with the extensive retaining
walls, excavation, home size, mass, and scale made the
project a lot more challenging.
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We set out to do things differently. The first
thing we did was hire local, and longtime seasoned,
architect, Tom Sloan, who helped to write the Los Gatos
Hillside Guidelines; and longtime Los Gatos resident and
local builder, Dave Zicovich. We began our design process
with the prior construction, neighborhood feedback, and the
lessons learned to address the concerns. We designed a home
that is smaller in size, mass, and scale, and more
importantly, a home specifically designed to fit the
natural beauty of the property with minimal impact. Also a
half-acre lot on Alpine can easily support a large square
foot house; we wanted to design a home that more naturally
conformed to the natural contours and beauty of the
landscape.
Specifically to address the size, mass, and scale
issue we reduced the floor area ratio from the prior
proposed project from 2,500 square feet to less than 2,000
square feet, or greater than a 20% reduction. Working
closely with the Town we conducted extensive civil and
environmental studies, and obtained full support from Los
Gatos Town Staff and the Town’s consulting architect, who
even noted that the home was well designed for the
property.
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With respect to the LRDA, or Least Restrictive
Development Area, the flat area of the property is in a
flood zone and it’s also very close to the adjacent Jackson
home, and locating the home there would require significant
retaining walls, excavation, and environmental impact. Also
of note, locating the home in the flat area would radically
limit the natural sunlight, and scientific studies do show
how important sunlight is for human health benefits,
vitamin D production, preventing disease, and creating
overall strong mental health and wellbeing.
In summary, based on the Town, Staff, and
architect recommendations, the home is located in the best
possible space, and is significantly below the FAR
guidelines to address the mass, size, and scale issues.
We’ve read all the letters, and we are committed
to working with the neighbors to address their concerns and
managing traffic for the safety of the neighborhood. I also
met with several of the neighbors this afternoon and
apologized for the lack of communication on our part. I own
that, and am committed to work more productively going
forward.
Let me shift gears on a personal note. I recently
retired from Tesla where I was an executive with the Clean
Energy Products Group. We planned for a future that
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included a happy and comfortable retirement at 26 Alpine
Avenue, but fate threw us a huge curve ball. After what was
thought to be a typical surgical procedure, my wife and our
family were dealt a serious medical diagnosis that rocked
our family to the core. This type of event stops you dead
in your tracks. It makes you question everything. It
challenges you in ways that you can’t possibly prepare for.
I know that we’ll get through this, because my wife is a
fighter and she has a very positive attitude, a beautiful
spirit, and she’s my hero.
What I’ve learned through this life experience is
to take deep breaths, focus, and take time to understand
what’s truly important in life.
I’d like to do something a little bit atypical
today and ask everyone to take a moment and close their
eyes, just for a moment. Once your eyes are closed, begin
to shift your awareness to your breath as you inhale
through your nose and exhale from your mouth. Take a few
breaths just like that, quietly observing your breath, and
with each exhale begin to release and relax. Now visualize
yourself walking on a beach. Begin to walk. Feel the soft
sand at the bottom of your feet. Listen to the gentle waves
break, and feel the relaxing warm water roll past your feet
and ankles. As the water gently moves through you, feel it
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bring you energy from the sea, and as it recedes feel it
take away all your day-to-day worries and stress. Now
gently return to your normal breathing and notice the
presence you cultivated. Now with this new fresh breath,
open your eyes.
Our hope is that we can all work together to get
us through the stress and pressure of building a new home
and resolving any reasonable differences in a respectful
and constructive manner. We want this process and journey
to provide us with a wonderful retirement home for my wife
and our family in the Town of Los Gatos that we’ve called
home for a quarter of a century.
Finally, I’d like to extend a big thank you to
the Los Gatos Staff for all their incredibly hard work,
requiring comprehensive studies and analysis, virtually
leaving no stone unturned.
With the remaining time I’d like to turn it over
to our architect, Tom Sloan, to share with you some
additional information to help you understand the
fundamentals that lead to the special architecture. Thank
you for your time.
TOM SLOAN: Thank you, Toby. My name is Tom
Sloan; I’m the project architect. I see my time is pretty
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short, so I’m going to kind of wing it through here a
little bit.
This is definitely a one of a kind site. It is
zoned for a single-family dwelling. Toby described the
solar characteristics of the project. He is an executive
that retired from solar energy, and rest assured, I think
he is going to do a cutting edge, state of the art job with
the solar on this house. It has a downhill slope facing
north, which makes solar very difficult. It also has a
creek running on the side.
The native site here, I call it that when we
start the project, it’s kind of the game board, I call it,
and the game board has rules that remain the same; each
game board is unique after the rules are applied. One of
the first rules of the game is to identify the resources
like the trees, the property lines, and the sloped
contours.
The next thing I did was identified the LRDA, the
Least Restrictive Development Area. It’s not showing up
very well here on this, but you can see the shaded areas
that are up here and down below. When we apply the setbacks
around there it starts to really restrict the site. When we
come in with a biotic setback from the creek it starts to
really restrict the site even further. This is what I call
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a very difficult slope; it’s definitely a black diamond
challenge here.
The proposed residence that we have is located on
the upper portion where there is the very small area of
LRDA, about 1,000 square feet of LRDA where we’ve located
the house. It’s only 20’ wide on this long, rectangular
area along the contours of the site.
The very first thing we did, which was a trouble
in the previous design, was locate this garage element on
the flattest portion of the lot, and bring the driveway in
straight. We keep the existing driveway. It has a circle
driveway there with curb cuts. We want to retain that,
because the parking along Alpine is very difficult.
We’re also putting in something really great,
which is an eco green roof. I described all the benefits in
the report; there are a tremendous amount of them. This eco
green roof is depressed and blends in with the upper hill
and extends the landscape.
You can see here the view patterns from the
living room space, and over here is the family room space;
we’re oriented away from our project. This was all planned
in advance. As a matter of fact, the views go over the
green roof, and you can’t even see it.
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There are very large, generous setbacks provided.
Over here we have a 5’ setback meeting with a total of 42’
feet setback; that’s about seven times the amount of
setback from this neighbor. Over here we’re really looking
right over the top if this house with a 37’ setback. I’m
out of time.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I’m sure there will be
questions, so let’s start with the questions. Commissioner
Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Actually, can you go back
one slide that showed the line of sight? I’d like to just
ask a question about that.
TOM SLOAN: Did I skip over that pretty fast? I’m
sorry.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Yeah, you did. So I’m taking
a look at Sheet A-1.1, which shows the property and it’s
neighbors, and I would like you to please orient me on the
home that you were showing above this home. Is that to be
my understanding 38 Alpine Avenue?
TOM SLOAN: Correct. This is 38 Alpine up here.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay. What about viewpoint
from 27 Jackson, which if I understand—this is all kind of
turned around from where you’re at—is sitting downhill, I
believe, from the second property.
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TOM SLOAN: I believe that’s this property here.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Behind the chair.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Why don’t I move the
chair?
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Thank you. That’s what I was
missing. I think since we went so fast, if you don’t mind…
I fully understood what you were showing about the 38
Alpine viewpoints. Can you please discuss a little bit the
viewpoints that will be from 27 Jackson? To me it appears
they’re going to be looking uphill to the Applicant
property.
TOM SLOAN: Okay, yes. I’m going to throw in a
little history. The one thing that my clients had me do,
and Staff of course, was to read the history of the
previous project that came before, and try to understand
the issues at hand. What the previous project was doing
was, and I think what was causing a lot of problems, they
were locating the garage about in this area here, and it
required… Then they brought in a large retaining wall that
came right in, removing a lot of these trees here that we
retained for screening. I think the retaining wall was
close to 10’ high or even higher, 12’ high retaining wall,
just for a driveway.
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Our project requires virtually no grading for the
driveway and for the parking. It’s also set way back. The
setback line runs here. We’re just at the closest point;
we’re 37’ away from the other building, or 32’ from the 15’
required setbacks, so it’s more than double the required
setback.
So this is the garage. Over the garage is what is
called the study/bedroom.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: To directly answer the
question I was asking, that property, because of the
screening of the setback, will it still, because it’s
looking up, be looking straight into that study, or have
you been able to step the study back over the garage so
that it is not overly visible in the line of sight?
TOM SLOAN: Yes. The study is right along here.
The garage goes out. It does step back.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay.
TOM SLOAN: If you come up to the top of the hill
you can actually—and I’ve got pictures, but they’re still
loaded on my phone—look in this direction, and the
screening really includes the view of the house, and
definitely they’re the back yards of the (inaudible) house
here.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay.
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TOM SLOAN: There are some small windows; they’re
very small, I think—I’m not sure of the exact size; I’m
just going to say about 2’ square—on some of the bedrooms
on the side wall here.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: That will be visible to that
home?
TOM SLOAN: They’re located approximately in this
location here, which does have even a greater distance
approaching 50’ away. They are looking up, no doubt, and so
if you press your face up against the window, then you’ll
be able to see up.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I think that answers it.
Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Thank you. I had some
questions about LRDA. Maybe I can start with the question
about what’s the slope where the house is actually located?
TOM SLOAN: I think we did provide Staff that a
long time ago, and I don't know if you were able to dig it
up. I think it was in the sixties, 60%, and I know that it
is about a 1:1 slope where the house is, and I’d like to
discuss that, if I could; I didn’t get to in my rush to
speak here.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I’d like to hear about it.
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TOM SLOAN: Where the building is, and this is
one of the most extreme, steepest parts of the site as I
recall, where this section went through. This demonstrates
that it’s a 20’ wide section, the whole building, top and
bottom. To try to put a one-story home on here, it would be
up on stilts if it was out of the ground, or if it was
pushed down low you could see that the soil would sort of
like the lower (inaudible) and it would just be buried, and
you’d have to have this very tall retaining wall above it.
I looked at it as though where this portion is
located it’s not causing any visual impact to any of the
neighbors at all, and I can show you on the site plan again
where that is located.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: We can cover that in a
minute, but I’d like to come back to LRDA. You were
familiar with LRDA, I think, because you were involved in
the original Hillside Design Guidelines, you mentioned?
TOM SLOAN: Yes, absolutely.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: What portion of the current
footprint is within the LRDA? I know it’s impossible to put
the entire house in the LRDA. What percentage of the
current footprint is within the LRDA?
TOM SLOAN: I’m going to say it might be close to
half. Close to half; it may be less than half.
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COMMISSIONER HUDES: If you were to attempt to
maximize the house into the LRDA, how large a house could
you build without an LRDA exception?
TOM SLOAN: I think the footprint that was left
at the very top was about 1,100 square feet, and it was an
amoebic shape; in other words, it was amorphous. We’d have
to design sort of a blob house to go out all the way. But
if it was a rectangle… I tried to fit in two rectangles
sort of stretching out in each direction. What was it? It
was around 600 square feet are about all I could get in
there. I mean I could probably creep that out in little
bits and pieces, but it’s not very big.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: And that’s for one level?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, that’s just the footprint.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: The last question I have on
LRDA is why not locate the home at the northeast corner of
the lot, or the northwest corner where the lot appears to
be a little bit less slope than the 60% area that you’ve
noted?
TOM SLOAN: The shading, for some reason, is
really washed out here. Right in here was the largest of
the flat LRDA areas. See that little sort of linear blob
right there, that’s all that’s left after we apply this
biotic setback, which is a requirement. That can flood in
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that area; it’s quite low. You can barely see a little
triangle here.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Is that the 1,100 square
foot you mentioned?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, right in here. Right in here,
and that’s at the top of the hill. I think the neighbor at
38 Alpine up here… I looked at it; I put a two-story house
on the top of the hill. Trying to get a garage there would
have been impossible. We would have had to really create a
three-story house, or just have a little teeny cottage over
a garage underground, because the only way to get in is
we’d have to… This isn’t showing the topography, but we’d
have to swing the garage in this way, because we wanted to
retain these oak trees here, so we can’t really come in
this direction, we have to swing in this way.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: And your assumption is the
garage has to be connected to the house?
TOM SLOAN: If the garage is detached, then
doesn’t it have to be in the rear portion of the lot? I
don't know if it can be. It might be able to be detached
and in the front portion, but yeah.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Thank you. That’s what I
have on LRDA.
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CHAIR BADAME: So back to that LRDA, you had
mentioned flooding, that the property has a predisposition
for flooding, and the Applicant mentioned that it was in a
flood zone. You can have an accumulation of water maybe due
to drainage, rainfall, from the severity of the slope, the
creek, and my question is, is this in a FEMA mapped
certified flood zone?
TOM SLOAN: That’s a good question. I don’t know
for a fact. My guess is it would probably not be, because
of the actual elevation relative, because there’s good
drainage; it’s steep enough.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had a couple questions.
From your report about the design, this is just a small
thing, but in Item 4 it said the garage is designed to be
conspicuous, but then you talk about it vanishes. Did you
mean to say that it was conspicuous?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, I could go back to the
rendering for a second. Typically, if you look at this as
an architectural form, it’s not your typical garage door
being enhanced with carriage doors and all that. The garage
door is designed to not appear as a garage door. There’s
always a recommendation to try to face the garage away from
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the street, right? This was not really possible; it was
tried in the previous solution, and that’s what gave way to
the large amount of retaining walls to get out enough to
swing around, and so we thought it would be best to drive
in and out as quickly as you can, straight in and straight
out, because we do have the ability to back out and go out
the existing driveway, so you can face out and not cause
traffic problems. So we created that deep recess, and then
the siding on the garage matches the siding on the house,
and it just sort of disappears; it doesn’t look like a
typical garage.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So what you mean is it was
meant to be as invisible as possible?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, sort of integrated and not
featuring the garage.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Inconspicuous is the word
I was looking for, yes.
I had a couple of questions about the trees. The
question I asked earlier. I know you looked very hard at
many angles for the LRDA, but since there are so many trees
on this lot, and then the arborist, as noted by our Staff,
they don’t tend to evaluate the LRDA with respect to the
amount of trees that are reduced. So my question is do you
feel like you, in addition to considering the other factors
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for the site location, that it also has minimized the
number of trees that have to be removed?
TOM SLOAN: I do, very much so. This is something
that I always approach. How can we do this, retaining the
trees? I looked at it from the vantage point of when we’re
all done, we want to keep the perimeter, these are the
trees that the community sees, they enhance the
streetscape, things of that nature, and provide mitigation
of visible impact between the neighbors.
Let me just stop there for a second. We do have
over here our consulting arborist, and you’re welcome to
ask questions of him, and he’s going to probably be a
better person to answer a lot of these questions, but he
wasn’t involved with the actual planning of the house; that
was myself.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had one other question I
wanted to ask on that point. In the arborist report he
noted that although he doesn’t weigh in on the design, he
wondered about the choice of using permeable pavers for the
driveway, because you have to dig down 4’ versus if you had
an impermeable surface, and he wondered about what impact
that might have to the tree roots of the trees on the
property that were close by. Did you consider his input on
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that when you were making a decision about the materials
for the driveway?
TOM SLOAN: The civil engineer that did the work
on the job is Sandis. We have to work really closely with
them. They’re a great company, a big company, very well
respected. Huh, Kevin? He came from Sandis. We’re going to
have to work very closely further on developing that. We
can do that. We don’t have to dig down, we can lay it on
top, and I don’t think we’re really encroaching into the
root zones where the driveway is; it’s kind of open there
anyway. But we do have to do a little grading to conform
the driveway to the bottom of the garage door is level, but
I think there aren’t many trees where the driveway is.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I know other Commissioners
have questions, but we may want to have that arborist
answer some more questions, but I’ll see who else has
questions.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I’m just going to let
everybody know we’re going to take a short break at 8:30,
so if you’re in mid-thought or something, don’t ask your
question now, but if you have a question you think will get
over in the next seven minutes, please do. Commissioner
Badame.
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CHAIR BADAME: I have a fairly quick on, I think,
a simple one. Can you elaborate on the cantilevered
overhang that’s 26’ away from the top of the creek bank?
How is it supported? What purpose does it serve?
TOM SLOAN: I think it’s likely that there’s
going to be steel projecting cantilevering out to support
it. I didn’t get to really speak about the…
You know, we don’t have any landscape on this.
We’re keeping the entire site in its natural condition. One
of the real big features that I pointed out is we’re not
grading around the perimeter of the site; all the grading
occurs within the footprint, and I can get into that. So
the purpose of that cantilever is it is one of many
balconies that provide outdoor space. We have these large
bi-folding doors, they will open up, and then the house
itself become linked with the exterior and becomes the
outdoor space that the owners can enjoy. There isn’t a
tennis court and a swimming pool and a patio, or any of
that space, included in this project.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Short question? Vice
Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’ll try.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, I’ll help you.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: I have three of them, Mr.
Sloan, and we’ll do the second and third after the break.
On some of the designs a feature on the house is described
as a pool, and in other designs it’s described as a water
feature, and I thought maybe with pool it was just missing
the point, but I saw the cutaway view and the pool seems to
have some depth. Is that a water feature lap pool?
TOM SLOAN: I don't know if the word pool is
still left over. We tried to get rid of the word pool.
VICE CHAIR KANE: It’s still on a number of the
designs.
TOM SLOAN: Maybe the civil engineer’s plans
still left it there.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’m asking, because pools are
not allowed.
TOM SLOAN: Yeah. No, it is not a pool. No one
could even dive in. It’s really about the size of a spa.
VICE CHAIR KANE: What is it? Is it water coming
down the wall?
TOM SLOAN: It’s a water feature. It’s really
just a water feature. We’ll probably design it with a
little water spilling over it to get the Zen sounds of
water in the back yard, the trickle.
VICE CHAIR KANE: How deep is it?
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TOM SLOAN: Oh gosh, three feet, maybe three-and-
a-half at the most.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Okay. I’m thinking there’s a
reason they prohibited pools on greater slopes; maybe there
could be an accident or something like that. Did you
consider that? Because I know you know the guidelines.
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, this is completely contained
within the light well area, so for somebody to fall in
there, I think the fall into the light well is the one
that’s going to hurt.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Okay. So where I see “pool,” I
should put in “water feature.” We’ll probably have water
trickling down a wall?
TOM SLOAN: Probably, yeah.
MALE: It’s designed to be a water feature. That
whole area…
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Sorry, I have to stop
you. Everything is being recorded, and that won’t work. But
thank you. You can talk to each other now, because I’m
going to start the break. We’ll be gone ten minutes, so you
can tell him, and we’ll get to that.
So let’s take a ten-minute break.
(INTERMISSION)
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, we can
resume. I think Michael Kane was in the middle of a
question.
VICE CHAIR KANE: And I’ll save it.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay. It’s been
suggested, to understand everything that’s going on,
perhaps we can defer our questions now, have the public
input, and before the closing, ask questions. So at least
we’ll move this along.
Now, it’s your opportunity to finish answering
the question, and anybody who wants to follow up on that
question with this witness, that would be an appropriate
time. He indeed is a witness. Go ahead.
TOM SLOAN: Commissioner Kane had a question
about what is the slope underneath the footprint of the
building. It is identified on the front page of our plans
as 55%. I know all about how the average slope is
calculated, if you want to ask me questions about that.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay, since we’re not
foregoing our opportunity to ask questions, but perhaps
just to expedite this a little, and for the public’s
benefit, I think I’ll suggest that you folks are over your
time now, and I will ask the public for any comments they
have. I have a list of cards here, and if I don’t have your
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card and you want to speak, please submit a card. The first
card I have is Leonard Viale.
LEONARD VIALE: Good evening, my name is Leonard
Viale. I live at 50 Alpine Avenue; my wife and I have lived
there for 23 years. We bought the property from Marti
Bennett, she was ex-mayor of Los Gatos; she divided an
acre-and-a-half property to three half-acres. We bought one
half-acre. We wanted to buy the half-acre that was at…
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Mr. Corey?
LEONARD VIALE: However, when we submitted out
plans, we were turned down by the Building Department
because we had to excavate dirt for an underground garage,
and they said the hillside is absolutely too unstable to
excavate dirt.
So my objection to building this house, number
one, I thought the design does not fit into the
neighborhood at all, the excavation of the dirt is
excessive, and if you ever visit that property you know
that there’s a straight bluff right behind it, and it will
slide in. It will, I promise you. No matter what the
geologists say or whatever, God does what they want to do.
He’s going to move it.
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And the tree removal is excessive. When we built
our house we had to remove one oak tree, and we had to
replace it with six redwoods to make up for it.
The lot at 26 Alpine was limited to 2,500 square
feet when we were looking at it, and I’m told that the
underground doesn’t count, but I just read recently that
Los Gatos was going to start counting the underground as
part of the construction. Now, whether that’s true or not,
I don't know, but something to look into.
They didn’t want us to put a garage off of
Alpine, they wanted us to put it down at the foot of the
hill and have an elevator come up, so we had a lot of
restrictions, and the reason we didn’t build a house. I
don't know what’s changed in the last 23 years. Has the
dirt become more stable? I don't know. But they would not
allow us to do the excavation, and I strongly object to the
excavation.
I strongly object to the design of the house,
which does not fit into the character of the neighborhood
whatsoever; it’s a sore thumb. That’s all I have to say.
Thank you for your time.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Let’s see if there are
any questions. Are there any questions? Thank you very
much, sir. The next card I have is Krista Gieselman.
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I want to refresh everyone’s recollection, mostly
mine, I suppose. People speaking now have up to three
minutes, and they’re helped because the yellow light will
come on when there is 30 seconds left, and then the red
light comes on, and that’s the end.
KRISTA GIESELMAN: Good evening, my name is
Krista Gieselman, and I live at 38 Alpine Avenue, the one
at the top of the hill, with my three children and my
husband, John.
After reviewing the Corey’s arborist report we
hired a certified arborist to understand the project’s
impact on the growth of the trees shared between our
properties.
Number 9 Tree: Both certified arborist reports,
the Corey’s and ours, indicated strong concern for the
wellbeing of Tree 9; that’s here in their marketing report.
Pointed out that the excavation and the construction of the
home and the pool area will damage the tree roots. I would
encourage you to read both arborist reports. They are both
in alignment that the Number 9 Tree is going to get hurt.
The Corey’s arborist indicated that Tree 9, “Is
mature, therefore more sensitive to change. Needs a maximum
protected root zone to give this old veteran and focal
center piece a fighting chance.”
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Our arborist pointed out that the tree is leaning
towards our house. We are concerned that the large tree
will topple on our house during construction, or after
construction, resulting in property damage or even personal
injury. My daughter’s room is right there.
Please note, when the house was sold to us last
year by the Coreys the heritage oak was highlighted in the
marketing material, therefore if the tree is lost,
replacements would not sufficiently give us a good value
back; it would decrease the property value of what I bought
it for last year. As recommended by our arborist, we
request that the current construction plans and design be
revisited to ensure the protection of this critical tree.
Also, Tree 12 is to be removed; that’s where the
house is going. It is a heritage oak, and it has a
beautiful view from our back, which they have in their
marketing material that they sold us last year. We
understand that it needs to be removed, but they have not
indicated to us at all how they are going to replace it so
we have our view given back to us so we don’t see their
house, and yes, we can see their house from every window on
that side. We see all the orange; we see everything, even
though they say we don’t. Come to our house; you can see
it.
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Additional trees. Twelve additional trees. When
we were sold the house their agent told us, “No more trees
will be removed.” Twelve more trees are being removed.
We request, we ask the Commission, please do not
approve these plans. We just ask that you look at it more,
and environmentally appropriate and less impact on the
environment and on the neighbors. That’s all we ask.
We’ve asked the Coreys many, many times, as you
see in the documentation, for some information. They have
not given us anything. I know that Toby has now said today,
at 3:00 o'clock in the afternoon, that he is willing to
give us information we’ve asked him for for the last year.
Nothing. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Any questions? Yes,
Commissioner Badame.
CHAIR BADAME: As a result of that meeting that
you had with him at 3:00pm this afternoon, I think he made
some apologies as well, are you on the same page with that,
where you feel that maybe you could all work together going
forward on ironing out some of the issues?
KRISTA GIESELMAN: I hope so, and I really do
want it, but it has been a year of asking. I have
documented. I have asked him, I’ve asked the builder, I’ve
asked the contractor, for repeated, I’ve asked Jocelyn,
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I’ve asked so many people for so many things, and I have it
all documented. I’ve received nothing. Nothing. I’ve asked
for renderings, I’ve asked for plans, I’ve asked to have
meetings. We had one meeting with my husband, and my
husband asked for some information; we got no information
after that.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Any other questions?
Thank you very much. The next card I have is Kathryn
Knudsen.
KATHRYN KNUDSEN: Hi, I’m Kathryn Knudsen at 25
Alpine, directly across the street from 26 Alpine.
There is a book written by George Bruntz in 1971
titled The History of Los Gatos, Gem of the Foothills. The
book itself is a gem, presenting a rich local history of
our town. On page 155 Bruntz notes, “An important
development came in 1924 when the town board took steps to
keep the town from developing in a hodgepodge manner. It
created the Planning Commission and appointed its first
members.” The book states that the first recommendations of
the Commission were that the Town should be properly zoned.
My comment tonight is specific to zoning. The
original parcel that includes 26 and 38 Alpine Avenue
resulted from a subdivision before we lived on the street,
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but during our 21 year tenure as residents the 26 Alpine
parcel has had other attempts with disappointed property
owners and builders when permits have been denied, and with
good reason. There are so many inherent problems for anyone
trying to build. Lots of excavation, which impacts soil
erosion, lots of tree removal, and safety issues adding a
home in a precarious place, right at a tricky curve on the
street.
My question is whether the lot needs to be
reevaluated for appropriate zoning. Just like the charge of
the original 1924 Planning Commission for proper zoning, I
hope our current Planning Commission will take a close look
at whether the clearance to make 26 Alpine Avenue a lot was
granted without due diligence to the sloping of the lot and
the general safety of the street. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Any questions? Thank you
very much. The next card I have is Pamela Nerney.
PAMELA NERNEY: Hi, my name is Pamela Nerney; I
live at 47 Alpine Avenue, and thank you for your service,
Planning Commission. A few quick points.
I would start with I encourage these plans to be
reviewed further. I have no comment about the design, but I
do have a comment about the history. There is more than one
attempt at building on this site. Full disclosure: my
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husband and I seriously considered buying it when it was
like $500,000 or something, and we were told by the Town,
and I have that documentation, that it was not buildable of
XYZ.
Which brings me to I am not a geology person, I
am not a real estate attorney, or any of the expert tomes
of files that Jocelyn Puga very graciously reviewed with
me. However, I was counting on the Town’s position to be
neutral, and that’s not what I have a sense of tonight, so
I’m puzzled by that, because it seems that they’ve approved
something that on closer inspection I’m hoping that you
will see what we’re seeing, which is the things you’ve
already heard and I won’t go over them again.
But also the location. I was happy to hear you’ve
all visited, and Ms. Knudsen mentioned that it’s at a
dangerous curve. It’s all red curbed in there, and it is at
a dangerous curve, which is not to say it’s not a buildable
or legal lot, whatever exactly that means. It just means
that it affords all the neighbors on the street a higher
level of… Especially during the construction unspecified
duration phase, a lot more danger and potential for ongoing
traffic ingress/egress situations.
In regard to the process itself, the Applicant,
Toby Corey, said earlier this evening something that
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puzzles me about that he got neighbor feedback. If I wasn’t
on the Planning Commission/Town Council meeting alert
system, I would have never known that the plans were
available online. It was last November, a week before
Thanksgiving, that we received, or I should say some
neighbors received, the letter from the Coreys asking us if
we had any questions before it went to the Planning
Commission. So there has not been any transparency. I’m
across the street, one house up, and nobody else that I
know, although a few of the letters that you’ve received in
favor of the project are clients of the builders or friends
of the Coreys, which is absolutely fine, it’s just that we
weren’t told anything. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Any questions? Thank you
very much. John Gieselman.
JOHN GIESELMAN: Good evening, I’m John
Gieselman; I live at 38 Alpine Avenue. We’re the house
right by the project.
My wife I thought did a nice job outlining the
impact to the heritage oaks. I’d just like to reiterate the
damage to the old growth trees shared by our properties are
really unnecessary and unacceptable.
Second, I’m very concerned about the amount of
cut in the project, as many of you have mentioned. The
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current plan proposes over 1,500 cubic yards of excavation
and removal, that’s ten dump trucks, to accommodate a 1,500
square foot cellar. I’m very concerned about the project
undermining the integrity of our home’s foundation. While
the geotechnical consultant and Town review addresses the
impacts on the Corey’s property, there is no analysis of
the impact on our property. Because of the severe slope,
the extreme amount of excavation, and our home resting
directly above the project, a review must be done on our
property as well.
There exists the very real possibility of
destabilizing the entire hillside, and as an older home our
house is far more susceptible to earth movement due to the
construction standards in place at the time it was built. A
project with this much excavation should require a
geotechnical review that includes the impacts to our
residence. To lessen the impact to our home I would suggest
shrinking or considering outright removal of the cellar or
pool.
If the project is approved and allowed to move
forward as is, I would like full agreement in advance as to
who will be held liable in the event the integrity of our
home is compromised at any point in the future.
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Third, Alpine Avenue is an old established street
defined by classic and Craftsman style architecture. This
will be the first home on the street with such a modern
appearance, and while it may look wonderful in some
neighborhoods, we do agree not with the consulting
architect’s opinion that the design is complementary to the
streetscape.
We purchased the home knowing there would be
development on this lot, but the current project has far
too many negative impacts. We ask that the Commission not
approve the plans and require that a new, more
environmentally appropriate and less neighbor-impactful
plan be submitted in its place. Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you. There is a
question. Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Sir, you and your wife both
made reference to a pool. Are you talking about the water
feature, or do you think the water feature is a pool?
JOHN GIESELMAN: Whatever we’re calling it. It
was described to us as a pool. I don't know if it’s 3’
deep, or 3.5’ deep, what defines a pool, so whatever you’ve
decided to call it, if you’ve settled on water feature,
I’ll call it a water feature.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: I guess the important question
is why do you think that’s deleterious? You’re talking
specifically about Tree 9? Why would that feature be…
JOHN GIESELMAN: Because it’s related to the
excavation that needs to take place for the water feature
to be put in.
VICE CHAIR KANE: So your concern is the amount
of cut?
JOHN GIESELMAN: Correct.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you very much,
sir. That, I think, does exhaust my cards on responsive
speaking, so I will call back the Applicant, and you’ll
have five minutes.
TOBY COREY: Come on, Tom. I’m not an architect
or a civil engineer, so I’ll do my best to provide some
color, and then allow my architect to get into some of the
technical issues.
With respect to Len’s comments and the hillside
not being stable, all of the reports show that… We lived at
38 Alpine for 15 years, and that has been eroding. All of
the studies, civil engineering, shows that actually putting
a structure in there adds more stability. It’s the same
recommendation from the Town and the architect; they feel
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that actually is a positive and not a negative for the
property.
In terms of tree removal, as I stated, I’ve spent
a lot of time in the environmental space. I’ve been an
executive at Solar City, helped get them public, and most
recently at Tesla. Having a green home and an
environmentally home is incredibly important to my family
and me. I drove around and saw their new developments up at
Testarossa Winery where they just clear-cut beautiful oaks.
We’re preserving over 80% of the trees, and the reason that
the property is being placed in this area is specifically
for that reason, to preserve as much of the trees as
possible.
There is no grading, there’s no lawn. It’s
preserving all the natural beauty of that property as much
as humanly possible. The intent for locating the home
there, a low-profile type of home, is to have the least
amount of environmental impact.
In terms of the FAR area, as I’ve said, we have
gone from a mass scale size down from 2,500 to under 2,000,
and I’ll respectfully disagree with some of my neighbors on
the design of the home. As a matter of fact, I was over
there today and another neighbor came down and said, “I
love the design of the home.” If you drive around, I could
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find over 100 homes that are adopting a more contemporary
type architecture that goes well with the Town. Just on Los
Gatos Boulevard and Kennedy, a ranch style home being
converted into a more contemporary type home. You could
drive up and there’s an English Tudor far up, so we think
that the home actually without a big, large Craftsman style
peaked roof, which would be more obtrusive to the view, a
flat type roof that really blends in well; I think the
photos that Tom showed illustrate that very well.
Krista brought up a very important point that we
agree with. We’ve got an arborist here; we talked a little
bit about that, is ensuring and preserving Tree 9. It does
fall on both of our properties; it’s a beautiful oak. We’ll
work with our arborist to ensure that we take the
appropriate standards and guidelines to ensure the safety
of that tree.
In terms of Tree 12, we actually when we were
selling the property put a number of pittosporum all the
way up the property line, even on the back. If they feel
that they still would like some obstruction there, we’ve
got no problem working with them to provide that for them.
As far as information goes, as I said, I would
have loved to have done things better. Always can do things
better as human beings. We did have our architect and our
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builder meet with John Gieselman back in November to go
over the plans. I think he did not follow through with
getting the design, but there was a meeting that took
place. Also met with Diane McNutt, as well as the two
adjacent property owners.
In terms of Pamela, without doubt, I’m not sure
what the dangerous curve has to do with the property. I
certainly understand the construction; we lived in that
home for 15 years and are well aware. The good news is that
our builder actually put together a parking plan where we
can fit substantially the majority of the vehicles on that
site. So it’s got a large natural driveway in front; we’re
able to park many of the vehicles in that space and
certainly work with the neighbors when we have these large
vehicles coming in and notifying them in advance of that.
Let’s see here. John talked about the tree and
architecture. As I said, the main goal was to preserve as
much of the environment, as much of the trees, as possible,
which is the reason we went for the cantilevered deck, so
we couldn’t need a yard, we wouldn’t need a swing set, or
grass, or landscaping; it’s all going to remain its natural
beauty.
I don't know if I missed anything, Tom.
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TOM SLOAN: Toby, I think you covered a lot. I
just want to add that I believe that in order to remove
some trees we are required to replace certain trees, so
we’re going to be doing that.
I just wanted to also say that by placing the
house on the steepest part of the hill, it is confirmed in
the soil stability analysis that was done—it’s not just a
soils report, it’s a soil stability analysis—that it’s
going to stabilize that hill and make it even better than
before, and the surrounding areas…so that the frame of the
house is a flatter site, so it appears as though it’s built
on a flat lot.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, thank you.
We’ve got some questions, I’m sure. I’ll start on this end
of the line with Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Mr. Sloan, we’ve heard a number
of speakers tonight, I think all of who expressed concerns
about the project. We have a number of letters, two of
which are from former Town Council and mayors of Los Gatos,
and now I’m wondering, what was the extent of the outreach
to head off some of these complaints at the pass? Did you
talk to everybody in the neighborhood, or just a couple?
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TOM SLOAN: The outreach could have been better.
I just want to leave it at that. It was something that
could have been better.
VICE CHAIR KANE: It’s challenging when the
majority of it is negative, and maybe there hasn’t been any
discourse with them, so that’s something we can think about
in the future.
My second question, could you put up the slide
that talks about the site section, that’s a cross section?
No, it’s one he had up earlier. That’s it.
Again, you and I understand the guidelines, and
that picture… So we talk in our application and letters
about gently stepping down. Help me with that. Where is the
stepping down? It looks like a rectangle has been put into
the ground. I know we always talk about stepping down, but
educate me on that.
TOM SLOAN: Okay. Stepping down the hill where
you can makes a lot of sense. Let’s see if I can formulate
this into… It’s sort of the obvious. We have one space.
There’s not another space to step down, it’s too narrow,
and it’s a one-space wide building. Underneath we do have a
narrow bathroom, 5’ wide, with a hallway and a bedroom, but
above, where the living space is, it’s 20’ wide, and that’s
it. That’s all we get. There’s nothing to step.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: My last question was, and I’m
admitting failure, I can’t fine a diagram that clearly
shows the LRDA. Usually we get big black lines that even I
could understand. I can’t figure this one out.
TOM SLOAN: It’s in there.
VICE CHAIR KANE: You mentioned one of the
pictures had faded a bit; maybe mine faded a bit.
JOCELYN PUGA: If you look at Sheet A-1.1, in the
bottom left corner, it says, “Site Constraints Diagram.”
VICE CHAIR KANE: One point one? I circled it. I
was there. That’s where I had the rectangle going into the
hillside, and I circled that and I really can’t find the…
TOM SLOAN: It’s the darker shaded areas.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Indicates area within LRDA,
slope under 30%. Indicates area out of LRDA, slope more
than 30%. It just wasn’t terribly clear. Your presentation
tonight helped a little bit.
TOM SLOAN: The trees show up quite dark here,
but the LRDA on this… I don't know if your angle shows
this, but it’s really got washed out for some reason.
VICE CHAIR KANE: My shaded areas all look alike.
TOM SLOAN: This line right in here is the LRDA.
There’s a little bit in here, and then there’s a little bit
along here. Most of it is in the setback.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: So it’s multiple sections?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, it’s broken into pieces,
because it’s just that double D diamond site; it’s a tough
one.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you, sir.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Moving down, the first
hand I see is Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Just as a follow up on the
LRDA. The LRDA seems to have been created for a couple of
reasons. One is to eliminate cut. It seems as though the
design is exacerbating the cut through the cellar. Have you
considered the possibility of not having a cellar, and how
much cut would be eliminated if you were not to go down for
a cellar? How much fill would you not have to remove?
TOM SLOAN: That’s a tough question to ask. To
make this a one-story within that same footprint, if you
will, it would have to be up on stilts, and the Hillside
Design Guidelines say don’t do this.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: In that (inaudible)?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah, because is it that steep that
that’s where the section shows? It’s that steep. A floor is
level, and the site is angled. It’s a narrow… It’s only a
one room, and it still has a lot of space below, or a giant
retaining wall behind to retain the hillside.
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COMMISSIONER HUDES: So with regard to the LRDA,
I think that it has several aspects, some of which don’t
apply relative to setbacks and things like that, but two
that I recall that are important about the LRDA
One is the minimizing the amount of cut that’s
required, and the other is placing the house in the area of
minimum slope, and it seems to me that if the average is
41%, and the building 55%-plus, that’s almost the opposite.
So rather than look for an area that’s below the average,
even if it’s not possible to hit 30%, it seems as though
you’ve taken the guidelines and turned them upside down and
said let’s look for the maximum slope on this lot and
locate the house there, because it’s going to stabilize the
hill, but to me it’s… Could you please explain to me how
that is consistent with those aspects of the Hillside
Design Guidelines on LRDA?
TOM SLOAN: We started putting the garage and the
most difficult places, the most difficult parts and
portions of the house, on the flattest areas. We also
occupied all the LRDA; it’s completely consumed up in the
project. We then noted that if we were to locate this long,
rectangular portion of the home where it is, then on either
side of that are the flat areas, so that’s where I say that
as you stand and look at the building, you’ll be standing
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on a flat surface on either side of the steepness. The
steepness of the hill is consumed within… Essentially it
disappears, because it is inside the building, so the
visual impact is dramatically reduced. The purpose of the
LRDA is really to examine the entire site and locate the
building where it would have the least impact visually.
When you’re in the hillsides, a typical hillside, you have
a large lot that has a great view that’s on a steep
portion, but if there is an available flat area, well
you’re to give up the view to hide the house on the flat
area so that it has less impact on the environment.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: So we might see that
differently, but you also said that the entire LRDA is
consumed in the footprint of the house, but when I look at
A-1.1, which I can see more clearly than that diagram, I
see a large grey section… Let’s see, the orientation of
this is northwest corner of the lot. Yeah, it’s the bottom
part of the picture that you have there. I can’t find the
north designation on this.
TOM SLOAN: Excuse, which page are you looking
at?
COMMISSIONER HUDES: A-1.1, and if you look at
the area on the bottom of the property.
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TOM SLOAN: Yes, the bottom of the property does
have the largest LRDA, and I showed earlier how it was
completely consumed once we applied the biotic setback from
the creek. That just wiped it out.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: So that is the 26’ from the
creek?
TOM SLOAN: Yeah. We do have a diagram here. The
green biotic setback, what’s remaining is this little
sliver right in here. See that little bumpout? You can
match that up with the bumpout on the other (inaudible).
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Okay, but there are also
other areas of grey as well that don’t seem to be within
the footprint of the house.
TOM SLOAN: Sure, but there’s a front yard
setback line right along here. That is consuming up mass
quantities of… So what did I do there? What can I put in
the setback? Well, I can put the driveway, so I’m going to
do that, because what it does is it makes the house appear
like it’s built on a flat lot, because you can’t see the
steepness; its consumed by the house. So the frame around
the building is level, relatively speaking, and we take out
that cancer, if you will, that steep part of the slope, and
we hide it, and so the frame that presents the house is
pretty level.
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COMMISSIONER HUDES: I understand your point
about the frame being flat. I have difficulty with the
other part of the answer.
TOM SLOAN: I know I rushed through my
presentation, but this site is incredibly difficult. It’s
one of the most difficult ones in my 30-plus year career,
and I kind of savored it. I’m a glutton for punishment or
whatever, but I just have something to prove here in a way.
I think I’ve said this before to the Council: I
do a lot of my thinking through my gut. I don’t let my head
get in my way. I trust my instincts, and so it’s very hard
for me sometimes to sort of explain these three
dimensional, very difficult solutions.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Badame.
CHAIR BADAME: I’ve got two things I want to
discuss, and one is I just want to clarify a point of
conversation that you had with Commissioner Hudes, and that
has to do with the architectural design. You mentioned you
couldn’t put it on stilts because the Hillside Development
Standards and Guidelines say you can’t do that. Well,
you’re not in a map that says you’re subject to Section 5,
I believe it is, architectural designs, so I don’t want you
to have a misunderstanding, because you’re not held to
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that. You’re held to the architectural standards and the
Residential Design Guidelines. We’re looking at constraints
and site analysis for our purview.
The other thing I want to get to is we talked a
lot about safety, and the obvious one is the fact that
we’ve got a geological hazard here; it’s on a very, very
steep slope. That being said, we also have a fire hazard in
the hillsides. I’m very concerned about that, because these
fires spread very quickly, especially in proximity or
located in steep slopes, and that’s what you have here. And
fires jump quickly to the neighboring property, so I would
be concerned if I were a neighbor. So can you elaborate on
the defensible space around the property as referenced in
the guidelines of Hillside Standards and Guidelines?
TOM SLOAN: For defensible space you don’t want a
house on stilts. Fire gets underneath the house. Boom.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I understand that.
TOM SLOAN: That was number one. We are providing
a somewhat defensible space. We’re taking out a few more
trees than we need to that are very in close proximity to
the home. The materials are going to be… The exterior
siding, it’s a unique… I think there’s a material board
around here. It’s a process called shou-sugi-ban, where you
take the cedar wood and you run it through and torch it.
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You actually burn the wood, you pre-burn the wood, and this
creates a charcoal sort of finish on it, and that gives it
a…that’s your fire retardant in a natural way. It’s an old
ancient Japanese technique.
So there’s that, and then we’re removing the
trees around the perimeter. Fire is something that is
unpredictable. I can’t tell you how it’s going to react in
a big fire; that’s a little out of my league.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Since there’s so much
concern about the geotechnical stability, I’m sure that
it’s the case that the information exists out there that a
geologist has said that this is going to stabilize… In some
of the past years we’ve actually been able to see the
report and/or hear from the geotechnical person. Is that an
option that we could…
TOM SLOAN: He’s here tonight. I wanted him to be
here to… He was on the previous project too; that’s why we
selected him. I’ve worked with him quite a bit, our
consulting geotechnical engineer. Would you like to speak
with him and ask him questions?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: If you wish to.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, yes.
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TOM SLOAN: Okay.
ROBERT POLLACK: Hello, my name is Robert
Pollack, and I wrote the geotechnical report for this
project.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: And the Applicant hired
you, and then I guess it was peer reviewed by the Town’s
geotechnical person?
ROBERT POLLACK: Yes.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: A lot of people from the
neighborhood perspective, and also here on the Commission,
are concerned about the geotechnical stability of the site,
being a sloped lot as it was, and even the Applicant, who
had owned 38 Alpine, admitted that there was erosion
happening on the 38 Alpine nearby. What I wanted to do,
without being able to see your whole report, could you let
us know, is this siting in fact going to make this slope
more stable than not? Is there another more stable approach
maybe that didn’t have as much digging, or why is it that
the digging makes it more stable? If you could just kind of
walk us through that.
ROBERT POLLACK: I don’t think that the stability
is really an issue here. We did borings on this hill and
it’s actually bedrock material all the way down to the
bottom of our borings. Also, we’re going to be putting in
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piers and probably tie-backs, although the final design
hasn’t been set, and that can only make things more stable.
Also, you can’t simply make a big cut like that.
OSHA doesn’t allow more than a 5’ cut that’s not supported,
so however the construction proceeds that cut has to be
supported going down, before we make it even.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So you’re saying you have
to… whereas you would have normal foundations…
ROBERT POLLACK: (Inaudible) 10’ cut, a vertical
cut, and then build a wall for it. That’s not allowed. You
can only make a 5’ cut, and we have more than that here, so
the cut has to be supported as we go along.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So you’re going to have
longer piers going into the…
ROBERT POLLACK: There are different ways of
doing it. We may use…
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Stop for a second. I
want you to let her finish the question, and then she’ll
let you finish the answer, okay?
ROBERT POLLACK: Sure.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I’m trying to understand
what about this design is going to make that okay.
ROBERT POLLACK: There are two ways of
approaching this kind of project. One is to put in tie-
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backs and to support the cut going into the slope as you
excavate, and the other way is to actually drill piers just
above the cut and pour piers in there and put in lagging,
or even soldier piers, so before the cut is made, it will
be stabilized.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So you’re saying that
you’re not able to impact… I’m just trying to paraphrase
what you just said. So what I thought I heard you say, and
tell me if I got this right, is that yes, that the process
of digging that amount of dirt out would normally
destabilize the hillside, but you’re not allowed to go
beyond a certain level, and then on top of that you would
put in additional techniques to stabilize the ground as
you’re digging, as well as in the foundation itself. Is
that what you said?
ROBERT POLLACK: The retaining wall and the piers
will improve the hillside, that’s for certain. I don’t see
slope stability as an issue here, frankly. What I was
saying about the 5’ cut is that we can’t simply make a big
cut and then build a wall to it; that could destabilize the
slope. We can only make small cuts and then support them as
we go along, or we can put in a wall behind the cut and use
that to support it, but that will be on piers. So whichever
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technique is used will actually make the hill more stable
than it is now.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, now relative to my
fellow commissioner’s question about the Least Restrictive
Development Area, is there another location, from a
geotechnical perspective, on the property where this house
could be sited that have less impacts to the stability, or
less adjustments that would have to be made?
ROBERT POLLACK: Compared to the last design, I
thought this design was fantastic, really. The last design
was really brutal. There were many retaining walls; some of
them were really high, really expensive construction, and a
lot of problems. This is relatively simple compared to
that.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So relative to all the
concerns that we heard from the residents about the slope
stability, you’re basically telling us that this isn’t a
concern for this project?
ROBERT POLLACK: It isn’t a concern to me. I
don’t see a problem here. It’s very hard material, it’s
bedrock material, and it will be stabilized as the cut is
made or before the cut is made.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, thanks.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Vice Chair Kane.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: I’m surprised I actually found
it, because I’m not very good with Initial Studies and
Mitigated Negative Declarations, but what concerned me
about the geo-aspects of the project is on page 46. “The
soils on the project has been identified as clayey, sand,
and gravel, and sandy clay.” Well, that gave me an attitude
of that’s pretty shifty stuff, but you found bedrock?
ROBERT POLLACK: The bedrock in this particular
area is Santa Clara formation, and Santa Clara formation is
material that consists of gravel, clay, and that type of
material that has washed down the slopes, but it’s very old
and it’s been consolidated.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I appreciate your testimony.
Thank you.
ROBERT POLLACK: The more significant thing, if
you look at the boring logs, is the blow counts. The blow
counts involve how many blows it takes to drive a slide
hammer a foot, and you’ll notice that some of those blow
counts are over 50, which is indicative of bedrock material
in this area.
VICE CHAIR KANE: So if this were approved, in my
language you would do what you would do and drive and drive
as far as you drive, and this thing would be stable?
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ROBERT POLLACK: I don’t see stability as being a
problem here at all. Really, I don’t.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Obviously we know that OSHA
is going to require that you do shoring for every 5’ deep.
ROBERT POLLACK: That’s correct.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I was listening to your two
different options. One is that we drive piles. I would be
curious about what your recommendation of the depth would
be, and that is obviously a vertical drive. Horizontally, I
assume then, would be some type of shoring, tie-back, or
something that would then horizontally brace the soils
behind it. Normally I do some type of shoring in a trench
where I’m not looking at a steep slope behind it, so in
your professional recommendation, between these two… And I
totally know engineers are going to review this and they’re
going to get it, but just for our sake as we have this
discussion, which way would you feel that during the
excavation, because while every 5’ we’ve got to provide
shoring, we still are impacting in moving soils, and even
bedrock shifts. What would be your professional
recommendation of how we would move forward, and what we
would be able to provide to neighbors that sit uphill of
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this on how this would happen during the construction? Now,
I get you’re not the construction team, but you are the one
that writes the report that they then build off of. What
are you going to recommend is the best way to prevent this?
ROBERT POLLACK: It’s really up to the
contractor. I don’t think there is a best way. Both ways
are very satisfactory and are commonly used. There would be
no piles driven; there would be drilled piers.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Sorry, piers, yes. How far
deep do you think those piers would need to be driven?
Because you’re right, 50 blows, that’s pretty solid.
ROBERT POLLACK: That’s pretty solid stuff.
Typically the piers are going to be probably one to one-
and-a-half times the length of the cut. They could be more.
We have to design it. This hasn’t been designed yet.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: May I ask the Chair, am I
allowed during this, to then turn around and ask Staff, or
do we wait?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, I’m not going to
object, so go right ahead.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I want to turn to our
engineering then and understand how you take these two
options, which we’re being told, however, I’m going to
pause, because it is also a geotechnical expert being hired
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by the Applicant. How do you analyze that to determine
what’s going to give the best stability between the
options?
KEVIN BAGLEY: The Town uses our geotechnical
peer consultant. When making such decisions, it would not
be up to me. The Town geo-consultant has reviewed the
geotechnical report, and I could not say which of the two
methods would be the preferred.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: But you do review the two
methods, or your geotechnical specialist…
KEVIN BAGLEY: Our geotechnical specialist.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: …reviews the two methods and
then says this is what the Town feels is going to be the
best for the stability on the hillside?
KEVIN BAGLEY: Yes, our geotechnical specialist,
our geotechnical peer consultant, would be making that
decision.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I just want to clarify.
I had a question. I know you know what you’re doing. I
assume they submit what they want to do, and then the
Town’s geotechnical can criticize it, or say that’s fine,
as opposed to the Town saying… Well, the way you phrased
the question, it almost looked like our expert was going to
do more than our expert is going to do. Our expert, as I
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understand it, will review their proposal, and if they see
something wrong with their proposal, they will say so, and
that’s your understanding too.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Yeah, I guess I’m sorry if I
wasn’t clear. What I was hoping was that I was going to be
able at the end when we are deliberating to ensure that you
reviewed both options, not they’ve picked one that’s the
most cost effective through their construction group and
that’s the only one that you need to review. Am I able to
stipulate that?
JOEL PAULSON: I’ll jump in here, and then Kevin
can throw a shoe at me or whatever if I misspeak, but I
believe as the geotechnical engineer said, you may have a
plausible solution either way, and so we don’t choose which
one. If either one meets the structural requirements, or
the geotech requirements, then they can choose that. If
they come forward with a solution that our geotech says no,
that’s not going to be sufficient, then we obviously
wouldn’t accept that, but you can have an instance where
you can have more than one option that is satisfactory and
meets the code and the technical requirements.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay, I just wanted to
understand the oversight. Thank you very much.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Now, you still have a
witness if you want to ask him some questions, the geotech.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: No, I understand exactly
what you’re talking about. I just wanted to understand how
the process went through with our town, so thank you very
much.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Burch
probably understands more than most of us, certainly in
this field, if not others. Except for Vice Chair Kane. Does
anybody else have any questions? All right, thank you very
much. Now we have some questions. Yes, Commissioner
Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I wanted to ask the
arborist a few questions.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Sure. Can we call the…
Their arborist, right?
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Could you identify
yourself, please?
GARETH JONES: Hello, my name is Gareth Jones,
and I’m the arborist who wrote the arborist report.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you. I appreciated
your report. I liked how you went through and described
each and every tree and its status, and gave commentary as
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well. Getting to the point that a number of the residents
were concerned about, aside from just the quantity of trees
that are being removed, protecting the trees that are
there, which you flag as an issue, it was in your general
suggestions for proposed development, the number one thing
you mentioned was tree protection distances. My question
is, is it realistic, you say 1’ of tree protection for
every inch of diameter? Just taking Tree 9, for example,
that the next door neighbors are concerned about, is it
realistic to have that much protection around the tree
during this construction?
GARETH JONES: Initially they were closer up the
slope. When I first read the report the drawing had the
tree and the well was, I don't know, 3-4’, closer to Tree
9. Also, they were going to use a different technique,
which was like to over-excavate and then pour a wall, and
then he moved it down 3-4’ also on the side, and also
proposed doing like a gunite style, which is more
expensive, but they’d just have to excavate right to the
edge of the wall, which saves all the roots, because if you
have to dig back 3’ you might as well… You understand? So
he moved it as much as possible, to the point where I would
say it’s probably going to be fine, it’s just going to be
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little feeder roots, like what was originally from the
initial plan, which was quite a bit up the hill.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So the answer to my
question is that yes, it’s realistic to provide the
adequate depth of protection, partly because of them
changing the way that they’re going to do the excavation,
and also because whatever distances that still remain are
feasible without them touching anything other than the
little, tiny feeder roots at the site, is that what you
said?
GARETH JONES: Yeah, and they’ve allotted a huge
area to just be with its roots. You never know exactly
where they’re going, but they’ve allowed this huge area
just to be totally untouched right up to the edge of the
house, so that’s a pretty good idea.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Is there some kind of
probability that we can assume that these trees will
survive this construction? Because you flag Trees 6, 8, and
9, “They have less tolerance for changes in root area and
canopy. They can survive off reserves. You have to be
sensitive to…” So can we take a high degree of confidence
that these trees are going to survive the construction?
GARETH JONES: Given like a delta zero, if
nothing were to change, if you were just to leave them
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there versus the construction, it’s a very, very small
chance of negatively affecting them. I mean they had this
nice winter with all the rain, so they’re going to do a lot
better, but we’ve had four years of drought and you can’t
say oh, they’re going to be great, do you know what I mean?
They’re going to survive. The negative impact, because of
the project, is very minute, because we adjusted things and
moved things around.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, so your confidence
level is high for those trees?
GARETH JONES: It’s very high, yeah.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: And that the residents
around could feel pretty good about that?
GARETH JONES: Mmm-hmm. And it will probably fall
towards that house, because they’re irrigating on the other
side.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, you’re just joking,
right?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I think there are some
other questions. Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: It’s going to fall which way?
GARETH JONES: It’s going to go towards their
house.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: His house. That was actually my
question, but first a comment. I want to thank you very
much for this report. It’s absolutely outstanding. Even I
could understand it. Sometimes these guys are complicated;
this was written really well. Thank you.
On page 7, and it’s been mentioned before, we
should do this and that regarding Tree 9, and, “Seek ideas
for maximizing protected root zone to give this old veteran
and focal centerpiece a fighting chance.” Now, that gets my
attention. Is it in dire straights? Does it need a fighting
chance? Because the neighbor said, “If this tree falls, it
falls on my daughter’s room.” So depending on how this went
forward, would you take another shot at doing super-duper
things to protect that tree?
GARETH JONES: I think the biggest danger is on
the other side of the fence where it’s got… There’s
pavement right up to the base of the tree, and then there’s
lawn, and then there’s new landscaping.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Okay, that’s already there.
GARETH JONES: Yeah, yeah.
VICE CHAIR KANE: But if we do more stuff to it
on this side, are we still giving it a fighting chance?
GARETH JONES: I think you’re pretty much out of
the range of its active root zone.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: You think it’s far enough away?
GARETH JONES: Mmm-hmm.
VICE CHAIR KANE: All right, thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Other questions? Thank
you very much. I think that concludes our questioning.
Unless there are some other questions, I can close… I’m
trying to remember, it’s been going on so long. I think
we’ve had the opening and the public and now the closing,
so I think we’re now in a position where I can say I’m
closing the public input to this public hearing.
I think at the moment actually, let’s take really
five minutes, and then get back together. So it is now
about 25 minutes to 10:00, so we’ll all be back here at 20
minutes to, if that’s okay.
(INTERMISSION)
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: All right, as promised
we can now go back to consideration. We are now at the
point of, I think, discussing among ourselves where we are,
and ultimately coming up with a motion. Yes, a motion. So
I’ll ask anybody to lead off. Commissioner Badame.
CHAIR BADAME: I actually have two questions of
Staff, the first one either for Ms. Puga or Mr. Paulson.
Mr. Sloan’s letter indicates that he wants
justification for the main floor plate height. So is this
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an exception, or is it more an architectural compatibility
issue?
JOCELYN PUGA: It’s an architectural
compatibility issue.
CHAIR BADAME: Okay, thank you. My second
question probably is for Mr. Schultz. This application, it
appears there were some contractual problems with the
uphill neighbor. The house was sold for a certain amount of
money; promises were made regarding the stability and view
blocking. One month later it appears that plans were
submitted for this project that we’re reviewing tonight, so
would approval of this application include terms that may
violate some agreement with the neighbor?
ROBERT SCHULTZ: I wouldn’t know whether it would
violate those terms or conditions, and I wouldn’t get
involved in that. We look at it just from a land use
standpoint and what our code, what our ordinances, and our
standards and rules say, and if that leads to litigation,
it would be between the property owners and it wouldn’t
concern the Town.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Are there other
comments? Yes, go ahead, Commissioner Burch.
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COMMISSIONER BURCH: Obviously there are a lot of
facets to this, and I appreciate having the arborist here—
it looks like he’s disappeared—because it did clear up a
few of my items.
One of the things that I do wish had been
included in this was the geotechnical report, just for our
understanding, because it does sound like it is a concern,
and we pay attention to the neighbor’s concerns.
Another concern that I have is it sounds like a
lack of community outreach. When we get this much feedback
from neighbors that they either hadn’t heard, or they are
not happy with the plans, and I appreciatively have an
honest apology that has come from that side that it hasn’t
been great, and it makes me pause and say maybe an
additional step needs to take place here.
I think if anyone is asking my two cents on this,
I would like a couple of things to happen before I was
going to make a motion or support a motion at this point.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: When you say a couple,
maybe I misunderstood.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Very specifically, I would
like to see the geotechnical report, and I would like to
see more interaction with the neighbors, and I would like
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to see the result of those interactions at a follow up
meeting.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay. Commissioner
Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I wanted to understand
Staff’s evaluation of the LRDA and whether this project
complies with the LRDA of the Hillside Development
Standards and Guidelines, and whether it is eligible for
the exceptions as well. I know this isn’t black and white,
but I’d really be interested in your thinking and
discussion about how this meets or doesn’t meet the LRDA
requirements.
JOCELYN PUGA: Sure. I think as you heard in the
testimony earlier, designing a home that fits completely
within the LRDA is going to create a really small home or
be nearly impossible.
When you go through chapter 2, which this
application needs to comply with, it talks about LRDA, and
LRDA includes many things beyond just slopes. It’s trees,
it’s geologic constraints, it’s visibility, it’s solar;
there are many things that include the LRDA besides the
slope.
From a Staff perspective, it’s going to be really
difficult to get a home within that entire LRDA, because
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you start to get within that required front setback or
within your required side setback, or within the
recommended setback from the top of bank, so if the
Planning Commission has any direction that they want to
provide to the Applicant to explore alternatives, but it
may also include more tree impacts.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: And when you refer to the
applicable section, is that on pages 56 and 57 of the
Hillside Design Guidelines?
JOCELYN PUGA: It’s actually page 12, chapter 2.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: And pages 56 and 57 don’t
apply here, is that correct, because that’s subdivision and
planned development?
JOCELYN PUGA: It doesn’t. Because the site isn’t
zoned Hillside, it’s not subject to this entire document.
It’s only subject to chapters 2, 3, and just section C of
chapter 6, so the architectural section doesn’t apply to
this site.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: Okay, thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I’m not sure if I’m going
to ask the question in the right way, but there was at
least one suggestion tonight about the viability as a
buildable lot, and we’ve actually heard this in other
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hearings. So back when the original subdivision was done,
what criteria goes in to deciding whether it’s a buildable
lot, or since it was a subdivision of two lots it was just
assumed that it was buildable? I just want to understand
that and put that issue on the table, and hopefully take it
off.
JOEL PAULSON: Ms. Puga may have done a little
more recent digging, but if you have a legal lot, it’s
buildable. What you can build on that lot, given the
requirements and guidelines and policies, may not be the
maximum that you can get otherwise. I think the 2,500 were
discussed in previous decisions. This one technically from
an FAR perspective is just shy of 2,000, but if you still
feel the constraints are too much, it’s not that it’s not
buildable.
If we say a lot is not buildable, then we’re
buying it. We don’t want to get into that discussion, and
so it gets to be finding a project that is appropriate
given the constraints for the site, which you guys see all
the time, you guys get all the challenging ones, and so
that’s just a decision that you have to make a
determination on a case-by-case basis.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Badame.
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CHAIR BADAME: You mentioned the conversation
about the 2,500 square feet that occurred during the
subdivision. Do we know if that also included the cellar,
which is almost as big as the house?
JOCELYN PUGA: We don’t. If you go back, the
condition for that subdivision simply says the home shall
not exceed 2,500 square feet; it doesn’t include any
provisions for a cellar.
CHAIR BADAME: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: As I think Senator McCain said
yesterday, “I cannot support this bill in its current
form.” I would, however, like to support something in a
modified form. I know this site is extremely difficult.
I’m not sure about the architectural
compatibility, that’s perhaps to be decided, but I think
the design is really fantastic. Maybe it doesn’t fit on
Alpine, but it’s an extraordinarily good job.
As we get around to making a proposal, and for
the Applicant’s benefit, possibly, I’d refer to the letter
from Steve Rice dated July 23rd, which I hope is in your
packet, and specifically paragraphs 4, 5, 6, and 7.
To sum up my current concerns about the cut,
about the square footage, and the visible aspects of the
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cellar, the project could be reduced to fit better with the
LRDA, and more concern for the trees. To the extent that
that’s possible, we may have a successful project. In its
current form, and with the neighbors and the letters being
as strong as they are, it would be difficult to support in
its current form, but we could take a second look at it.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Other comments? Go
ahead, Commissioner Badame.
CHAIR BADAME: I would agree that the letter we
received from Mr. Rice nailed a lot of the issues for me,
so I concur with some of the comments made by Vice Chair
Kane.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: If I recall correctly,
and I stand to be corrected on this, Commissioner Rice, who
I have great respect for, however his family I think
originally owned either this property or the whole thing
before it was subdivided. I say that only because we should
know that, and it’s not disclosed in the letter, and so I
can’t say for a fact, but I’ve been in this town a long
time, my memory is that… I’m trying to remember his
relative’s name, because she was mentioned this evening.
She was a wonderful lady and a very good reputation, but to
me, that colors the letter. I cannot rely on that letter as
much as if he did not have that family connection. I don’t
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question his honesty at all, or his intelligence, but it’s
just a fact.
Now, I would also, I guess, like to say this. I
have now been dealing with this property for a number of
years myself. This is the best project I have seen for this
property. If we continue it for the reasons Commissioner
Burch suggested, that would be okay, although I’m not
optimistic that discussing this with the neighbors is going
to change anybody’s opinion. For example, on the tree, it
can be so conditioned that we’re as satisfied as can be
that that tree, one, is going to be safe, but two, were it
to collapse, we’ve already had testimony that it would fall
downhill rather than uphill, and we can condition some
assurances on those matters. So I would not disagree with
Commissioner Burch, I’m just not optimistic it would
accomplish anything.
This is a very difficult project for the
Commission, too, but since it’s the best I’ve seen, and
since it’s in my judgment a good project, and since I don’t
see a better project ever—ever is too long a word—I don’t
see a good project in my lifetime, which is a much shorter
period, coming down, and therefore I think the design is
excellent.
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I don’t think you have to build every house on
that street to somehow fit. In the first place, they don’t;
I’m quite familiar with that street. I think this would be
a plus. Architecture, from a mass standpoint, can be fairly
subjective, and I’m just very impressed with that design.
So I, personally, would support this proposal,
however, if somebody has some idea, like Commissioner Burch
does, that she thinks would help clarify anything, I
wouldn’t stand in the way of that. And it doesn’t sound
like I’m in the majority on this anyway, but I do want to
say it’s thoroughly done, beautifully done, reduced the
size from 2,500 to a little shy of 2,000; the excavation I
think is necessary, considering the lots.
Yes, they’ll have to take out the tonnage of
cubic feet we talked about. That really isn’t that many
trucks, and that will also be conditioned on traffic and
schools and all that stuff. So all I would say is if we
turned this project down, there will be another project,
and I don’t think it would be better.
So anyway, I’ve said enough. Commissioner Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I don’t have the history
with that, and I’m kind of taking this as an application
that just stands on its own; I can’t put it in the context
of all that’s come before.
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But I have to go to the LRDA and the rationale
for the LRDA, and it starts with the word “least.” When you
look at an average slope on the lot of 41%, and this is
being built in an area where it’s 55%-plus, it really
sounds more like an MRDA, a Most Restrictive Development
Area.
Then when you look at alternatives here, think
there are some alternatives that have been discussed. One
is maybe you wouldn’t change the location, but you would
eliminate some of the cut if the cellar were reduced in
size, or eliminate it, but more likely just reduced in
size, there would be less cut, which is one of the
objectives of building in an LRDA, to reduce the amount of
cut.
Secondly, I think that there is an alternative of
reducing the footprint of the home itself, and it would
create a smaller overall home, one that isn’t 3,000-plus
square feet, but it’s still a home and it still meets the
definition, I think, of buildable lot.
So those alternatives, I think, need to be looked
at before being able to move this forward in my opinion
that the intention and the language of LRDA is sort of
being turned upside down here in building on the steepest
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part of the lot, so I have an issue with trying to apply
the design guidelines in that respect.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Let me suggest this. I
am not in favor of sending this back. If we want to deny
it, we should deny it, or recommend denial—I forgot what
we’re doing, recommending or denying—so it can move
forward. I think there are some honestly held differences
of opinion here, and I will not argue those points, but I
think it would be fairer to the Applicant to have a new set
of eyes look at this, which would be the Council. It’s been
well discussed, and lawyers would say well briefed, and it
has been. So I think, personally, it would be good if we
are not going to approve it to allow it to be sent to the
Council. I just say that as something to think about.
Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Then may I ask a question of
the Chair? If we are obviously of mixed feelings, and if
that were the case, would you allow each of us then to
state why? Because if it were denied and it went up to
Council, I would want them to know that perhaps I was in
agreement with architecture and my only two issues were
neighborhood outreach and geotech. Something like that, so
that I can get on the record.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I would not only allow
it, I’d invite it, and that would be very helpful.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Okay.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: But first we have to
find out whether we can, for example, get a motion to deny,
and then at that point when we get a motion and a second,
people can feel free to state whatever they want to for the
record. So Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’ll go with the majority of
the Commission, but I don’t want to deny it. It really
depends upon the owner and the architect as to whether or
not they want to take another shot at this, and if they
don’t, then you may wisdom as usual on what we should do,
but I’d like to see if there’s a chance to have some
modifications effected.
I don’t live on Alpine, I don’t live anywhere
near it or anything like it, but I’ll write a letter and
quote these four paragraphs, because they really sum up my
concerns. But it depends upon what the Applicant might be
interested in doing.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, it depends upon
the motion is what it depends upon at this point. We could
always, as we’ve done in the past, I suppose we could ask
the Applicant. I’m certainly not opposed to that. We’d have
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to reopen the public comment for the limited purpose, and I
am going to look to Counsel, because I’m saying this and I
need his vote of confidence, reopen for public comment, but
we’re limited to the answer to our question to help us. And
I don't know what we’ll do at that point, but if the
Applicant were to say that’s not doing them any favors, you
just kick it over and come back again, that would be
helpful for us to know; or if you were to say no, we think
there are some things we could do, which we’d like to do,
that would be helpful, too.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Why don’t we try that?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: So if everybody seems to
be in agreement with that, and nobody seems to be opposed
to that, I will reopen the public hearing for the limited
purpose of asking the Applicant his druthers, as we
eloquently say.
TOM SLOAN: Thank you very much for reopening to
let me speak here. Sure, we can redesign it, we can tweak,
but it’s not going to make any significant changes. The
client needs the square footage. They’re not asking for all
these rooms. It’s a basic house. It’s a great room with a
kitchen in it for dining, and then it has three bedrooms
and a study. It’s not overboard in terms of what the client
needs.
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We would, with all due respect, just ask you to
deny it if that’s what you want to do. If I thought I could
redesign it, I would. I think that this has been reviewed
by just a ton of professionals, and peer reviewed up and
down one side and another for over a year now, and
everybody else seems to like it. It’s the neighbors, a few
of them, that disagree.
You know, I would absolutely redesign it if I
could. In the last hearing I stood up here and sketched
something out. We want to make the neighbors happy. I’ll
think on my feet, I’ll make it done. This is a very, very,
very, very difficult site. Mr. O'Donnell, I think you’re
right. I don't know who can make anything better. I mean
that with all due respect to anybody out there.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: We appreciate your
comments.
TOM SLOAN: Thank you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I will now close the
public comment up here once again and entertain a motion.
Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: I make a motion to deny the
application.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Do you want to state any…
Well, let’s get a second.
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VICE CHAIR KANE: Well, I can’t make the
findings.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: No, no, all I’m saying
is at some point we’re all going to state reasons, and you
can do that now, because you’re making the motion and we
need a second, or you can wait and just do it…
VICE CHAIR KANE: I’ll wait.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay. Do I have a
second? Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: I’ll second, and then I’ll
make my comments.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: We can do it just any
way you want to, or we can start and just charge down a
line. Commissioner Badame, would you like to start?
CHAIR BADAME: Sure, I’ll start. I cannot make
the finding that it’s compliant with the Residential Design
Guidelines, the Cellar Policy and General Plan policy
regarding cellars as contained in Appendix C of the
Residential Design Guidelines has not been met. I also
cannot make the finding for the Residential Design
Guidelines in regard to bulk, mass, and scale. I cannot
make the finding that it’s compliant with the Hillside
Development Standards and Guidelines with respect to the
LRDA. I think this is a major exception, and I believe a
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smaller scale home could better fit within the LRDA and
maybe extend maybe a little beyond, but this is a major
extension and a very, very steep slope. I also have
concerns with the grading, concern with the cut, the safety
with the fire hazards, and the privacy impacts to the
neighbors.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you. Commissioner
Hudes.
COMMISSIONER HUDES: I don’t have anything to add
to that list; I think that’s a comprehensive list. I would
just put my emphasis on that list in the area of trying to
fit closer to the LRDA, if not hitting 30% that’s required,
at least coming in below 41%, which is the average for the
slope, and trying to minimize the impact on a cut that
accompanies therein, so I think there were some
alternatives that were discussed in terms of reducing the
size of the footprint, locating the garage perhaps in a
different area of the lot, and potentially eliminating or
reducing the size of the cellar as ways to achieve that cut
and potentially less impact through selecting a more
appropriate location on the site.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you. Commissioner
Hanssen.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I’m going to respectfully
disagree with the last two comments I heard. I’m probably
more on the same page as Chair O'Donnell and Commissioner
Burch.
I wasn’t around for the original projects, but
I’ve been reading the review of the original projects. I
agree with Chair O'Donnell that this is definitely the best
project that has been presented to date, and we’ve heard
this from other evidence as well.
In terms of looking at the LRDA, I was actually
convinced after hearing the architect speak about looking
at all the aspects of it that the right decision was made
about where to put the house. We have in the Hillside
Guidelines a lot size and a FAR adjustment for when it’s on
a very highly sloped lot, and given all that, the Applicant
would have been entitled to do a house with square footage
of up to 2,600 square feet, and when it’s very severely
sloped they take off quite a bit of the possible square
footage.
Then as far as the cellar goes, as much as we’ve
had big discussions about the Cellar Policy, at the moment
the Cellar Policy is still in place and the cellar is not
countable square footage, and I did hear from the architect
that there was a reason to put the cellar in there because
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of the structure of the house and everything, so I can’t
find that as a reason to go against the project either.
But I do think that there are quite a few
concerns from the neighbors that haven’t been addressed,
and I do think with something like this where there’s been
opposition in the past and there is now, and there was
admission by the Applicant that not as much outreach has
been done, there are definitely neighbors that don’t think
anything should be built there, and we already had this
discussion about this has been determined to be a buildable
lot.
So that being the case, I do think though it
would be wiser to continue this item so that there could be
some additional outreach. Maybe the geotech guy and/or the
arborist could meet with some of the neighbors and go
through those specific issues about how the construction is
going to go, and how they can be assured that there aren’t
going to be any slope issues. I’d like to see that happen,
but I don’t have any specific reason to deny the project at
this point, I just don’t have the comfort to approve it.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Commissioner Burch. She
just said everything that I would have said, so if it moves
forward to Council, I would just hope that then you would
have heard that and that you would come to Council with—I
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don’t expect everybody to be holding hands and agreeing on
everything—at least that there were discussions, that the
neighbors had a chance to talk to the arborist, just as you
said, and the geotechnical specialist, those things were
done. She said it all very, very well, so I won’t say
anything else.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: For the record, “she”
meant Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Commissioner Hanssen spoke
very well.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay. Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: If we get a denial, and if that
denial is appealed, I’d like Council to pay particular
attention to Commissioner Badame’s motion, and also the
entire letter from Steve Rice dated July 23, 2017. Thank
you.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I’d like to say the
reason I would have supported approval. I don’t think the
LRDA is quite as mechanical as maybe suggested, and it’s
been my experience that the LRDA is sometimes tempered by
the lot, the location, and other considerations, and
certainly not excavating the basement as much doesn’t
really speak to the LRDA that was of a concern, i.e. the
square footage of the first floor, so whether you dig to
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China or whether you don’t dig at all, it’s going to be the
same size, so I don’t think that speaks to the LRDA.
Besides the footprint, very practically, that is
not a big house. We see much bigger houses all the time, so
I think the person came down greatly; it’s less than 2,000
square feet.
The excavation, yes. The excavation is a lot and
it gives me pause. On the other hand, this is a very, very
difficult lot. The excavation is within the footprint. The
trucking off can be handled, in my experience, quite well.
I’ve heard that if we don’t put the cellar in, then we’re
going to have a house that’s basically on stilts. We don’t
do that, so if you’re in an impossible position, then
you’ve got to come up with either a denial of the project
forever, or you’ve got to approve something, so that’s my
point on that.
So I would not rush this through if I thought it
would ultimately pass here, but I don’t care how often they
talk to the neighbors, I really believe we have… And if I
were the neighbors, I’d probably be in the same position
they are in. It would be nicer if something very small was
there, or nothing at all was there; that’s not going to
change. We have to make a judgment on what we think, and I
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think this is 2,000 square feet or less and it’s a very
reasonable number.
I’ve said all these things anyway, so that’s what
I would say for purposes of the Council. I think we’re now
in a position to be able to call the question, although
Commissioner Burch looks like she wants to say something.
COMMISSIONER BURCH: Well, I guess I’m curious,
depending on how this goes, if I withdrew my second,
depending on how it voted, if you were going to make a
different motion.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, let me say this
again. I’ve heard, I’ve counted noses, I think it appears
to me it could be 3-3, I will say that. That would fail.
Well, if it failed, we’ve got to have a motion that could
be appealed, don’t we? I’m asking our attorney.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: Yeah, so if the motion failed,
and you’d either have to do a motion to approve the project
or to continue the project. You do have the ability to
continue it and have a seventh member here.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Personally, I would like
to move this along for all the reasons we’ve stated, and
particularly for the Applicant. So please don’t withdraw
your second. Commissioner Badame.
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CHAIR BADAME: I just want to add the comment
that I think it’s best headed towards Council, because even
if we continue it I really don’t believe that the neighbors
and the Applicant are going to come to terms. I don’t think
it’s going to be changed enough, and we heard Mr. Sloan say
so, so I think it’s best headed towards Council at this
point.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I certainly agree with
that. Vice Chair Kane.
VICE CHAIR KANE: Just a fine point that it isn’t
necessarily going to Council. If it gets denied it has to
be appealed. It may not be appealed, who knows? But I don’t
want to make a presumption of Council per se, and I’d like
to move the question.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: You don’t have to make
the presumption. I am making the presumption, but you can
move the question. Let’s call the question. All those in
favor of the motion, signify by raising their hand. So
that’s four. So that’s 4-2. Is that correct, or are you
abstaining, Commissioner Hanssen?
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I vote no.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Okay, so it’s 4-2.
ROBERT SCHULTZ: And we’ll let the record reflect
that it was Hanssen and O'Donnell voting no.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Yes. So can we have the
advise on the appeal?
JOEL PAULSON: Yes, thank you. There are appeal
rights. Anyone who is not satisfied with the decision of
the Planning Commission can appeal that decision to the
Town Council. Forms are available in the Clerk’s office.
There is a fee for filing the appeal, and the appeal must
be filed within ten days.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you all for being
here.
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