Attachment 2LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018
Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
D. Michael Kane, Chair
Matthew Hudes, Vice Chair
Mary Badame
Kendra Burch
Melanie Hanssen
Kathryn Janoff
Tom O'Donnell
Town Manager:Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney:Robert Schultz
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(619) 541-3405
ATTACHMENT 2
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR KANE: I’ll move on to Item 3 on the
agenda, which is 720 Blossom Hill Road, Conditional Use
Permit Application U-18-008, requesting approval for a
modification of an existing Conditional Use Permit
(Lunardi’s Supermarket) to allow wine and beer tasting on
property zoned C-1. This is APN 523-06-045. The property
owner is the Rice Family Living Trust, the Applicant is
Lundardi’s Supermarket, and the project planner is Mr. Sean
Mullin.
May I see the hands of those who have visited the
site? Are there any disclosures? Thank you. Mr. Mullin,
would you give us your report, please?
SEAN MULLIN: Thank you, Chair and Commissioners.
Before you tonight is a request to modify an existing
Conditional Use Permit to allow wine and beer tasting at
the Lunardi’s Supermarket. The proposed wine and beer
tasting would be located in an interior room currently used
for storage. No exterior modifications or increase in floor
area would occur as a result.
In addition to Town requirements the proposed use
would be regulated under a Type 86 license issued by the
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California Alcoholic Beverage Control, and Staff is
recommending that the Planning Commission forward a
recommendation of approval to the Town Council based on the
evidence and discussion in the provided Staff Report.
That concludes Staff’s presentation. We’re glad
to answer any questions.
CHAIR KANE: Thank you, Mr. Mullin. Do we have
questions for Staff? Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BIRCH: Do we have any other grocery
stores in town that do beer and wine tasting?
SEAN MULLIN: I’m having flashbacks to the new
Safeway, that that might have been part of their Planned
Development, but I don’t know if they actually do it.
COMMISSIONER BIRCH: Okay, thanks.
CHAIR KANE: Other questions? Seeing none, I will
open the public portion of the public hearing and give the
Applicant the opportunity to address the Commission for up
to ten minutes. I will need speaker cards, please. Thank
you, sir. Would you state your name and address, please?
KEN BARONE: Hi, my name is Ken Barone; I’m the
Wine and Beer Manager over at Lunardi’s in Los Gatos, and
here to discuss hopefully the approval of tasting wine and
beer at our store.
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As it stands right now it is, as mentioned, an
area of the store that’s currently used for just storage of
wine, and we would like to go forward getting the approval
to do tasting basically as a way to educate the public and
bring in local wineries to our store, and people can enjoy
a taste, and it would be a maximum of three 1-ounce pours
during a two-hour period.
I’m open to any questions you might have.
CHAIR KANE: Questions for the speaker?
Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I’m just curious, the
question was is there a similar use in Los Gatos—I can’t
think of one—but since you’re in the business, it sounds
like a good idea, but I just wonder is there any precedent
for it that you’re familiar with?
KEN BARONE: As far as in the Town?
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Not necessarily.
Anywhere.
KEN BARONE: Oh, yeah, I can think of…
(Inaudible male speaks from the audience.
CHAIR KANE: You can speak, but do give me a
speaker card, please.
JESUS VASQUEZ: My name is Jesus Vasquez; I live
at 962 Patricia Way in San Jose.
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I know Safeway on Hamilton and Meridian does
tastings on weekends if you go in; they have those little
cups. They do spirits, beer, and wine. Zonado’s (phonetic)
has a Wine Day on Wednesday; you could taste wine while you
shop.
KEN BARONE: Also the new Total Wine, if you’re
familiar with it, on Almaden Expressway.
JESUS VASQUES: Which is a super duper liquor
store.
KEN BARONE: Yeah, I’ve been in there and they do
have tastings.
JESUS VASQUES: So those are the ones that come
to mind.
KEN BARONE: But as mentioned, it is a new
precedent.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you, I was just
curious, that’s all.
CHAIR KANE: I know Lundardi’s. I know Mr.
Barone; we’ve had dealings in the past. I like Lunardi’s.
Everybody likes Lunardi’s. I like you hiring policies in
particular.
What I don’t understand, and I’ll put this in a
vernacular, why are you giving out free booze at 10:00
o’clock in the morning? I mean your marketing guys must
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have come up with that, but I would have thought 5:00 to
7:00, 6:00 to… Why so early?
JESUS VASQUEZ: Do you think wine, sir?
CHAIR KANE: What is this, the Supreme Court?
JESUS VASQUEZ: I’m assuming you do, but in case
you don’t. When you walk down the wine aisle it’s slightly
overwhelming to some that don’t know much about it, so if
you go in there and you get to taste something and you
enjoy it, you’re more likely to buy it than you are just if
you have…
CHAIR KANE: That’s not my question, and I’m not
even sure it’s in my purview.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Why the hours?
CHAIR KANE: Why 10:00 o’clock in the morning?
JESUS VASQUEZ: Because those are typically when
people are shopping, that’s the busier time of the day at a
grocery store.
CHAIR KANE: All right. Other questions?
Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: You have additional
Lunardi’s locations throughout the Valley, so do any of any
of those other locations offer the wine tasting?
KEN BARONE: In Santa Clara, no.
JESUS VASQUEZ: No.
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KEN BARONE: But up the Peninsula, yes.
JESUS VASQUEZ: There’s one on the Peninsula, and
then the Danville store also does tastings, and they do
Friday and Saturday evenings.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Do they draw a crowd? Is it
popular? Is it crowded?
KEN BARONE: There are people that get to know
our wine managers that will know when everything is going
on, but besides that, yeah, it will increase. When you put
out the time that there’s going to be a tasting, you’ll
have people, couples, will get together and stop by and
want to taste something that they haven’t had before and
they’ve talked about. So you do it, you’ll bring in more
people, but like I say, we need to limit it to a couple of
hours at a time.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Thank you.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Would you go if we were doing,
for example, a Rombauer Chardonnay tasting?
COMMISSIONER BADAME: I might be admitting to
something.
JESUS VASQUEZ: I just used Rombauer Chardonnay,
because it’s the number one selling wine at that location.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: And that’s free tasting?
Rombauer?
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JESUS VASQUEZ: It will be for you. I’m not
saying we’re doing it; I’m just throwing it out there.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: We can talk after the
meeting.
CHAIR KANE: Are you offering a gift?
JESUS VASQUEZ: I’m not bribing anybody; don’t
accuse me of anything.
CHAIR KANE: I just can’t see sipping at 10:00
o’clock. I’ve got to work. I can’t go to work smelling like
a Rombauer.
JESUS VASQUEZ: We’re shooting for Saturdays and
Sundays.
CHAIR KANE: That’s makes more sense.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah.
CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hansson, you had your
hand up earlier.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I did have the same
question as Commissioner Badame, and I think you answered
it. I was on the Commission when we approved the expansion
of Lunardi’s a few years ago, and one of the questions that
we had at that time was is this in line with the overall
Lunardi’s strategy? And the current configuration of the
store is with the bigger Lunardi’s very similar to that, so
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it sounds like this is more of a trendsetter than the
expansion was.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Trying to just keep up with the
Joneses is what’s going on.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: All right, so my other
question was I happen to have gone to the wine tasting at
Whole Foods on Almaden, they do it there.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, Whole Foods does it too.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: And not often, but I’ve
been to it before and they do it in the afternoon, and so I
wondered if you would consider putting it to after 12:00
noon?
KEN BARONE: Yeah, we’re going to see how it
goes. If everything gets approved, it will be a stepping-
stone on our way to see what’s going to be the best time,
but also limit it to a couple hours at a time.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR KANE: Other questions? Vice Chair Hudes.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: I think that any step that’s
made to make businesses more vibrant in Town is very
positive, and so I think that from my perspective I don’t
really have a question about the timing, about the
particular hours that you’re proposing, because you’re the
experts at that.
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But I did have a question, and I don't know if
we’re going to get into this or not, but in your letter you
talk about a maximum pour of one ounce, and I think that
that very well mitigates the possibility of
overconsumption, but in your testimony you mentioned a
maximum of three pours of one-ounce within two hours, is
that correct?
JESUS VASQUEZ: Right.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Is that correct?
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yes.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: I don’t see it in the
Conditions of Approval. It is in your letter, but I don't
know that it’s in the conditions, so I don't know whether
other Commissioners might want to include something like
that, but I’d like to get your opinion about that, if that
were specified as well whether you would have a problem
with that.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Three one-ounce pours is what the
ABC allows.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Right. Okay, so you’re in
compliance with the ABC.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Everything we do is based on ABC
laws, because they run the show.
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VICE CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Well, we don’t need to
rewrite those rules.
JESUS VASQUEZ: So that’s the max you’re allowed
to pour without a charge, without reaching for a permit to
have a restaurant/bar, that eighty-whatever license.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Okay, and clearly without a
charge. I don't know if that’s in the conditions either.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, it’s without a charge.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: It’s not? Okay, so again, we
might get into a discussion about whether we need to
include that in order to…
JESUS VASQUEZ: Again, that’s an ABC thing, so if
we do charge, we’re considered a bar.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Yes?
JESUS VASQUEZ: So then we’d have to apply for a
bar license, and I’m pretty sure you guys would not allow
us to put a bar in Lunardi’s.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Yeah. Okay, Thank you very
much.
KEN BARONE: But I have seen that before.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, at Whole Foods.
KEN BARONE: Safeway up in Oregon…
JESUS VASQUEZ: Has a bar?
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KEN BARONE: …has a bar. They don’t sell alcohol
in the store, or wine, one or the other, but then, you can
go in there and drink.
JESUS VASQUEZ: The Whole Foods on the Alameda
and the one on Blossom Hill both have a tasting bar, or you
could buy wine and beer in the store and go consume it in
that area, and they have a bar where they pour beer and
wine.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Yeah. In the 1950s my father
was a bartender in the equivalent of a Target, and the men
went to their…
JESUS VASQUEZ: I don’t think even that far back.
I remember my dad drinking at Ford’s store in Watsonville
when were kids. Mom would take us shopping and my dad would
go to the little restaurant area. On Sundays after church,
right? That’s what you did. So not that far back as the
fifties; it was the eighties.
VICE CHAIR HUDES: Thank you.
CHAIR KANE: How old were you?
JESUS VASQUEZ: I was born in 1981, so like
three, four, five.
CHAIR KANE: Do we have other questions for the
Applicant? Seeing none, I’m going to open up the public
portion of the public hearing to see if anyone wants to
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speak. Do we have any cards? (No cards.) So you now have
five minutes to rebut anything you heard.
JESUS VASQUEZ: I have a question about the
hours. Our application is from 10:00 to 2:00. If we wanted
to go in the afternoon, as you guys have suggested, would
we need to reapply to you guys, or how does that work?
CHAIR KANE: No, you can do it right now.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Okay, can we expand it to like, I
don't know, 8:00pm, 7:00pm?
CHAIR KANE: From 6:00pm to 8:00pm?
JESUS VASQUEZ: Well, it would all depend. We’d
still only do it for two hours, whether we start at 4:00
and do it 4:00 to 6:00 or 6:00 to 8:00.
CHAIR KANE: I just think the later the better.
JESUS VASQUEZ: We could do that. The idea is to
get like an A-frame chalkboard, a nice little drawing,
“This Thursday come taste Rombauer from 6:00pm to 8:00pm,”
so maybe when you guys get done with work.
CHAIR KANE: 6:00pm to 8:00pm is a good idea.
Commissioner O'Donnell.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Perhaps what we could
do, and this is all very simple and I don’t see anything
wrong with it at all, but you started by suggesting a time.
If you would like to experiment a little bit I suppose what
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we could do is put a time limit and let them find out what
they think the best time is. We’re not in a position, nor
are we requested or required or authorized, to tell you how
to run your business. If you want to do it from 10:00am to
2:00pm, that’s fine, but if you decide that you’d like to
test the market a little bit I would suggest that we give
them a chance to experiment with 10:00am to 2:00pm and then
some other similar time not later than put a number in it,
and then at the end of 30, 60, 90 days, whatever it is,
they would tell the Staff what day they’re going to stay
with, simply so we’ll know what is approved. So if anybody
else would find that acceptable, I’m just trying to help
the Applicant, and that might be helpful.
CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: If they were to find that
acceptable, what other timeframe would you like?
JESUS VASQUEZ: I’m assuming during the week
6:00pm to 8:00pm, or 5:00pm to 7:00pm would work; that’s
when people go grocery shopping. But on weekends typically
Saturday afternoon at a grocery store is not very busy.
People are doing family things, so they typically shop in
the morning maybe for an afternoon barbeque or family
dinner, XYZ reasons or whatever normal people do on a
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Saturday afternoon is why we shot for those hours for the
weekends.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Thank you.
CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had a suggestion. The
current Terms And Conditions would be, “Wine and beer
tasting events would occur no more than three times a week
between the hours of 10:00am and 2:00pm.” If you just said
that they would occur no more than three times a week with
a maximum amount of time of no more than two hours at each
tasting…
JESUS VASQUEZ: That’s perfect. That’s perfect.
Can we do that?
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I think you guys are the
best judge of that, and I’m sure your judgment and your
customers will tell you not to do it at 8:00 in the
morning.
JESUS VASQUEZ: You guys are the experts. We’re
just grocers.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So that’s a suggestion I
have to change the Terms And Conditions…
JESUS VASQUEZ: That sounds great. Can we change
it?
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: …to no more than two hours
per tasting, and then not specify what the hours are,
because like I said, your customers probably are going to
say not at 8:00 in the morning, like that.
KEN BARONE: You’re going to have a group that is
why aren’t you having it when I’m there shopping, and the
group that’s saying wait till later when I get off work,
because you have a mix of people.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Let’s change that.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: If it’s acceptable to the
other Commissioners.
CHAIR KANE: What I’m saying, Commissioners, and
I’m beating around the bush, is Commissioner O'Donnell, the
early hours just concern me about kids, and the later
likely the less kids, school kids, and you’re going to ID
people, I suppose.
COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: But you do have your ABC
rules that they have to comply with, and I’m not really
concerned about that, because that is something we’re not
experts in, and the ABC…
CHAIR KANE: I’m enlarging upon that provision
that says, “For the welfare of the good of the people,” or
something, Item 4.
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COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, I think it’s less
likely that he’s going to have a problem with wine at 10:00
o’clock in the morning than 6:00 o’clock in the evening,
but I’m in favor of what was just said, two hours any time
between, let’s say, 10:00 in the morning and whatever time
you suggested, 6:00 or 7:00 or whatever it is, 8:00 o’clock
at night, and then they can pick the time, but it’s two
consecutive hours, so it isn’t 10 minutes here and 15
minutes there. They’ll pick a time, and they can vary it,
so like weekends you want one time or another.
The only thing I would defer to Staff on is if we
make it, and it sounds good to do it the way it was
suggested, it may make it a little difficult to figure out
whether they’re complying, because it’s so open, but that’s
not really our problem. If it’s Staff’s problem, Staff can
say so.
CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Burch.
COMMISSIONER BIRCH: I also feel quite confident
that being a local store with local family owners and
everything they’re not going to want people over drinking
at 10:00am, that would just look bad for business, so I
support what Commissioner Hanssen has said and allowing
them to figure out what their clientele wants. I think it’s
a perfectly respectable request.
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CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Badame.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: I would also support the
idea that Commissioner Hanssen had as well, and as far as
the earlier hours with the drinking, the plus side is you
have less traffic, less commuters, so if you do have
somebody who can’t handle one ounce of Rombauer and have to
leave the store, it’s less likely that… Three ounces.
CHAIR KANE: Three ounces.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Okay.
CHAIR KANE: Then you go to the frozen food
section and you come back and get three more.
JESUS VASQUEZ: No, it’s max three; you can’t
come back. That would lose our licenses.
COMMISSIONER BADAME: Well, I would support
Commissioner Hanssen’s idea; I thought that was excellent.
CHAIR KANE: In terms of managing the question,
the Staff Report said there would be a Lunardi’s employee
present during this period, and in the materials you
submitted you said there would be a store employee and a
representative of what was being sampled. So will there be
two…
KEN BARONE: I believe it’s “or.”
JESUS VASQUEZ: No, it’s “and.” There will be a
store manager available at all times.
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KEN BARONE: Store manager, yeah.
CHAIR KANE: So you won’t leave the wine rep in
there by him or herself?
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yes. Like it could be me pouring
the wine and Ken manning the store and regulating, so there
will be multiple people in charge; it’s not just one person
on their own. Sometimes three people, sometimes
(inaudible).
CHAIR KANE: Someone had their hand up.
Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I just wanted to comment
that the two-hour window does effectively limit your repeat
possibilities…
JESUS VASQUEZ: Mmm-hmm, and that’s why we’re
shooting for a two-hour window.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: …so that’s a really smart
limitation.
JESUS VASQUEZ: And if you’re spending more than
two hours in Lunardi’s, I mean something is going on,
right? I mean we do it, but we get paid for it.
CHAIR KANE: Anything else? I have one other
comment. Commissioner Hanssen brought up the original CUP;
she was present, I was present. In your Conditions of
Approval the Reason #8 is in here, Rear of the Building,
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“The rear of the building shall be kept clean and free of
litter and storage,” because at that time back in 2015 I
circled the building and the back was an absolute mess, so
I put this one in here. It’s in the new one, and I was not
able to get to the store today, I took an injury, but what
does the back of the building look like?
JESUS VASQUEZ: It’s clean (inaudible).
KEN BARONE: Night and day compared to what it
was.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, absolutely.
CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Anything else? Then I’m
going to close the public portion of the public hearing and
I will look to my commissioners for discussion, questions
of Staff, or a motion. Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: If there aren’t any
questions, I would be ready to make a motion.
CHAIR KANE: Commissioner O'Donnell says you’re
making a motion.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: My motion is to recommend
to Town Council that they approve the Conditional Use
Permit Application U-18-008 to allow wine and beer tasting
on property zoned C-1, APN 523-06-045, and I can make the
findings of CEQA, and I can also make the findings for a
Conditional Use Permit as stated in Exhibit 2, and would
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recommend the Conditions of Approval in Exhibit 3, with the
change to Item 5 that we discussed with the maximum amount
of time being two hours and not specifying which hours they
are.
KEN BARONE: Perfect.
JESUS VASQUEZ: Perfect.
CHAIR KANE: Do we have a second? Commissioner
Burch.
COMMISSIONER BIRCH: I will second the motion.
CHAIR KANE: Do we have discussion? Seeing none,
I’ll call the question. All those in favor, say aye. It
passes 7-0.
By the way, what I said about being a good
neighbor and your hiring policy, I’d like to underscore
that. It’s a well-known fact what you do, and it’s much
appreciated.
KEN BARONE: We’ll pass that along. Thank you.
CHAIR KANE: Given that we’re making a
recommendation to Council, Mr. Paulson, are there appeal
rights at this point?
JOEL PAULSON: There are not.
CHAIR KANE: Thank you.