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Attachment 2LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A P P E A R A N C E S: Los Gatos Planning Commissioners: D. Michael Kane, Chair Matthew Hudes, Vice Chair Mary Badame Kendra Burch Melanie Hanssen Kathryn Janoff Tom O'Donnell Town Manager:Laurel Prevetti Community Development Director: Joel Paulson Town Attorney:Robert Schultz Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin (619) 541-3405 ATTACHMENT 2 LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P R O C E E D I N G S: CHAIR KANE: I’ll move on to Item 3 on the agenda, which is 720 Blossom Hill Road, Conditional Use Permit Application U-18-008, requesting approval for a modification of an existing Conditional Use Permit (Lunardi’s Supermarket) to allow wine and beer tasting on property zoned C-1. This is APN 523-06-045. The property owner is the Rice Family Living Trust, the Applicant is Lundardi’s Supermarket, and the project planner is Mr. Sean Mullin. May I see the hands of those who have visited the site? Are there any disclosures? Thank you. Mr. Mullin, would you give us your report, please? SEAN MULLIN: Thank you, Chair and Commissioners. Before you tonight is a request to modify an existing Conditional Use Permit to allow wine and beer tasting at the Lunardi’s Supermarket. The proposed wine and beer tasting would be located in an interior room currently used for storage. No exterior modifications or increase in floor area would occur as a result. In addition to Town requirements the proposed use would be regulated under a Type 86 license issued by the LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 California Alcoholic Beverage Control, and Staff is recommending that the Planning Commission forward a recommendation of approval to the Town Council based on the evidence and discussion in the provided Staff Report. That concludes Staff’s presentation. We’re glad to answer any questions. CHAIR KANE: Thank you, Mr. Mullin. Do we have questions for Staff? Commissioner Burch. COMMISSIONER BIRCH: Do we have any other grocery stores in town that do beer and wine tasting? SEAN MULLIN: I’m having flashbacks to the new Safeway, that that might have been part of their Planned Development, but I don’t know if they actually do it. COMMISSIONER BIRCH: Okay, thanks. CHAIR KANE: Other questions? Seeing none, I will open the public portion of the public hearing and give the Applicant the opportunity to address the Commission for up to ten minutes. I will need speaker cards, please. Thank you, sir. Would you state your name and address, please? KEN BARONE: Hi, my name is Ken Barone; I’m the Wine and Beer Manager over at Lunardi’s in Los Gatos, and here to discuss hopefully the approval of tasting wine and beer at our store. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 As it stands right now it is, as mentioned, an area of the store that’s currently used for just storage of wine, and we would like to go forward getting the approval to do tasting basically as a way to educate the public and bring in local wineries to our store, and people can enjoy a taste, and it would be a maximum of three 1-ounce pours during a two-hour period. I’m open to any questions you might have. CHAIR KANE: Questions for the speaker? Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: I’m just curious, the question was is there a similar use in Los Gatos—I can’t think of one—but since you’re in the business, it sounds like a good idea, but I just wonder is there any precedent for it that you’re familiar with? KEN BARONE: As far as in the Town? COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Not necessarily. Anywhere. KEN BARONE: Oh, yeah, I can think of… (Inaudible male speaks from the audience. CHAIR KANE: You can speak, but do give me a speaker card, please. JESUS VASQUEZ: My name is Jesus Vasquez; I live at 962 Patricia Way in San Jose. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I know Safeway on Hamilton and Meridian does tastings on weekends if you go in; they have those little cups. They do spirits, beer, and wine. Zonado’s (phonetic) has a Wine Day on Wednesday; you could taste wine while you shop. KEN BARONE: Also the new Total Wine, if you’re familiar with it, on Almaden Expressway. JESUS VASQUES: Which is a super duper liquor store. KEN BARONE: Yeah, I’ve been in there and they do have tastings. JESUS VASQUES: So those are the ones that come to mind. KEN BARONE: But as mentioned, it is a new precedent. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Thank you, I was just curious, that’s all. CHAIR KANE: I know Lundardi’s. I know Mr. Barone; we’ve had dealings in the past. I like Lunardi’s. Everybody likes Lunardi’s. I like you hiring policies in particular. What I don’t understand, and I’ll put this in a vernacular, why are you giving out free booze at 10:00 o’clock in the morning? I mean your marketing guys must LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 have come up with that, but I would have thought 5:00 to 7:00, 6:00 to… Why so early? JESUS VASQUEZ: Do you think wine, sir? CHAIR KANE: What is this, the Supreme Court? JESUS VASQUEZ: I’m assuming you do, but in case you don’t. When you walk down the wine aisle it’s slightly overwhelming to some that don’t know much about it, so if you go in there and you get to taste something and you enjoy it, you’re more likely to buy it than you are just if you have… CHAIR KANE: That’s not my question, and I’m not even sure it’s in my purview. JESUS VASQUEZ: Why the hours? CHAIR KANE: Why 10:00 o’clock in the morning? JESUS VASQUEZ: Because those are typically when people are shopping, that’s the busier time of the day at a grocery store. CHAIR KANE: All right. Other questions? Commissioner Badame. COMMISSIONER BADAME: You have additional Lunardi’s locations throughout the Valley, so do any of any of those other locations offer the wine tasting? KEN BARONE: In Santa Clara, no. JESUS VASQUEZ: No. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KEN BARONE: But up the Peninsula, yes. JESUS VASQUEZ: There’s one on the Peninsula, and then the Danville store also does tastings, and they do Friday and Saturday evenings. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Do they draw a crowd? Is it popular? Is it crowded? KEN BARONE: There are people that get to know our wine managers that will know when everything is going on, but besides that, yeah, it will increase. When you put out the time that there’s going to be a tasting, you’ll have people, couples, will get together and stop by and want to taste something that they haven’t had before and they’ve talked about. So you do it, you’ll bring in more people, but like I say, we need to limit it to a couple of hours at a time. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Thank you. JESUS VASQUEZ: Would you go if we were doing, for example, a Rombauer Chardonnay tasting? COMMISSIONER BADAME: I might be admitting to something. JESUS VASQUEZ: I just used Rombauer Chardonnay, because it’s the number one selling wine at that location. COMMISSIONER BADAME: And that’s free tasting? Rombauer? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 JESUS VASQUEZ: It will be for you. I’m not saying we’re doing it; I’m just throwing it out there. COMMISSIONER BADAME: We can talk after the meeting. CHAIR KANE: Are you offering a gift? JESUS VASQUEZ: I’m not bribing anybody; don’t accuse me of anything. CHAIR KANE: I just can’t see sipping at 10:00 o’clock. I’ve got to work. I can’t go to work smelling like a Rombauer. JESUS VASQUEZ: We’re shooting for Saturdays and Sundays. CHAIR KANE: That’s makes more sense. JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah. CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hansson, you had your hand up earlier. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I did have the same question as Commissioner Badame, and I think you answered it. I was on the Commission when we approved the expansion of Lunardi’s a few years ago, and one of the questions that we had at that time was is this in line with the overall Lunardi’s strategy? And the current configuration of the store is with the bigger Lunardi’s very similar to that, so LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 it sounds like this is more of a trendsetter than the expansion was. JESUS VASQUEZ: Trying to just keep up with the Joneses is what’s going on. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: All right, so my other question was I happen to have gone to the wine tasting at Whole Foods on Almaden, they do it there. JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, Whole Foods does it too. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: And not often, but I’ve been to it before and they do it in the afternoon, and so I wondered if you would consider putting it to after 12:00 noon? KEN BARONE: Yeah, we’re going to see how it goes. If everything gets approved, it will be a stepping- stone on our way to see what’s going to be the best time, but also limit it to a couple hours at a time. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, thank you. CHAIR KANE: Other questions? Vice Chair Hudes. VICE CHAIR HUDES: I think that any step that’s made to make businesses more vibrant in Town is very positive, and so I think that from my perspective I don’t really have a question about the timing, about the particular hours that you’re proposing, because you’re the experts at that. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 But I did have a question, and I don't know if we’re going to get into this or not, but in your letter you talk about a maximum pour of one ounce, and I think that that very well mitigates the possibility of overconsumption, but in your testimony you mentioned a maximum of three pours of one-ounce within two hours, is that correct? JESUS VASQUEZ: Right. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Is that correct? JESUS VASQUEZ: Yes. VICE CHAIR HUDES: I don’t see it in the Conditions of Approval. It is in your letter, but I don't know that it’s in the conditions, so I don't know whether other Commissioners might want to include something like that, but I’d like to get your opinion about that, if that were specified as well whether you would have a problem with that. JESUS VASQUEZ: Three one-ounce pours is what the ABC allows. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Right. Okay, so you’re in compliance with the ABC. JESUS VASQUEZ: Everything we do is based on ABC laws, because they run the show. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 VICE CHAIR HUDES: Okay. Well, we don’t need to rewrite those rules. JESUS VASQUEZ: So that’s the max you’re allowed to pour without a charge, without reaching for a permit to have a restaurant/bar, that eighty-whatever license. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Okay, and clearly without a charge. I don't know if that’s in the conditions either. JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, it’s without a charge. VICE CHAIR HUDES: It’s not? Okay, so again, we might get into a discussion about whether we need to include that in order to… JESUS VASQUEZ: Again, that’s an ABC thing, so if we do charge, we’re considered a bar. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Yes? JESUS VASQUEZ: So then we’d have to apply for a bar license, and I’m pretty sure you guys would not allow us to put a bar in Lunardi’s. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Yeah. Okay, Thank you very much. KEN BARONE: But I have seen that before. JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, at Whole Foods. KEN BARONE: Safeway up in Oregon… JESUS VASQUEZ: Has a bar? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KEN BARONE: …has a bar. They don’t sell alcohol in the store, or wine, one or the other, but then, you can go in there and drink. JESUS VASQUEZ: The Whole Foods on the Alameda and the one on Blossom Hill both have a tasting bar, or you could buy wine and beer in the store and go consume it in that area, and they have a bar where they pour beer and wine. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Yeah. In the 1950s my father was a bartender in the equivalent of a Target, and the men went to their… JESUS VASQUEZ: I don’t think even that far back. I remember my dad drinking at Ford’s store in Watsonville when were kids. Mom would take us shopping and my dad would go to the little restaurant area. On Sundays after church, right? That’s what you did. So not that far back as the fifties; it was the eighties. VICE CHAIR HUDES: Thank you. CHAIR KANE: How old were you? JESUS VASQUEZ: I was born in 1981, so like three, four, five. CHAIR KANE: Do we have other questions for the Applicant? Seeing none, I’m going to open up the public portion of the public hearing to see if anyone wants to LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 13 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 speak. Do we have any cards? (No cards.) So you now have five minutes to rebut anything you heard. JESUS VASQUEZ: I have a question about the hours. Our application is from 10:00 to 2:00. If we wanted to go in the afternoon, as you guys have suggested, would we need to reapply to you guys, or how does that work? CHAIR KANE: No, you can do it right now. JESUS VASQUEZ: Okay, can we expand it to like, I don't know, 8:00pm, 7:00pm? CHAIR KANE: From 6:00pm to 8:00pm? JESUS VASQUEZ: Well, it would all depend. We’d still only do it for two hours, whether we start at 4:00 and do it 4:00 to 6:00 or 6:00 to 8:00. CHAIR KANE: I just think the later the better. JESUS VASQUEZ: We could do that. The idea is to get like an A-frame chalkboard, a nice little drawing, “This Thursday come taste Rombauer from 6:00pm to 8:00pm,” so maybe when you guys get done with work. CHAIR KANE: 6:00pm to 8:00pm is a good idea. Commissioner O'Donnell. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Perhaps what we could do, and this is all very simple and I don’t see anything wrong with it at all, but you started by suggesting a time. If you would like to experiment a little bit I suppose what LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 we could do is put a time limit and let them find out what they think the best time is. We’re not in a position, nor are we requested or required or authorized, to tell you how to run your business. If you want to do it from 10:00am to 2:00pm, that’s fine, but if you decide that you’d like to test the market a little bit I would suggest that we give them a chance to experiment with 10:00am to 2:00pm and then some other similar time not later than put a number in it, and then at the end of 30, 60, 90 days, whatever it is, they would tell the Staff what day they’re going to stay with, simply so we’ll know what is approved. So if anybody else would find that acceptable, I’m just trying to help the Applicant, and that might be helpful. CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Badame. COMMISSIONER BADAME: If they were to find that acceptable, what other timeframe would you like? JESUS VASQUEZ: I’m assuming during the week 6:00pm to 8:00pm, or 5:00pm to 7:00pm would work; that’s when people go grocery shopping. But on weekends typically Saturday afternoon at a grocery store is not very busy. People are doing family things, so they typically shop in the morning maybe for an afternoon barbeque or family dinner, XYZ reasons or whatever normal people do on a LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 15 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Saturday afternoon is why we shot for those hours for the weekends. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Thank you. CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had a suggestion. The current Terms And Conditions would be, “Wine and beer tasting events would occur no more than three times a week between the hours of 10:00am and 2:00pm.” If you just said that they would occur no more than three times a week with a maximum amount of time of no more than two hours at each tasting… JESUS VASQUEZ: That’s perfect. That’s perfect. Can we do that? COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I think you guys are the best judge of that, and I’m sure your judgment and your customers will tell you not to do it at 8:00 in the morning. JESUS VASQUEZ: You guys are the experts. We’re just grocers. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So that’s a suggestion I have to change the Terms And Conditions… JESUS VASQUEZ: That sounds great. Can we change it? LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 16 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: …to no more than two hours per tasting, and then not specify what the hours are, because like I said, your customers probably are going to say not at 8:00 in the morning, like that. KEN BARONE: You’re going to have a group that is why aren’t you having it when I’m there shopping, and the group that’s saying wait till later when I get off work, because you have a mix of people. JESUS VASQUEZ: Let’s change that. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: If it’s acceptable to the other Commissioners. CHAIR KANE: What I’m saying, Commissioners, and I’m beating around the bush, is Commissioner O'Donnell, the early hours just concern me about kids, and the later likely the less kids, school kids, and you’re going to ID people, I suppose. COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: But you do have your ABC rules that they have to comply with, and I’m not really concerned about that, because that is something we’re not experts in, and the ABC… CHAIR KANE: I’m enlarging upon that provision that says, “For the welfare of the good of the people,” or something, Item 4. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 17 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 COMMISSIONER O'DONNELL: Well, I think it’s less likely that he’s going to have a problem with wine at 10:00 o’clock in the morning than 6:00 o’clock in the evening, but I’m in favor of what was just said, two hours any time between, let’s say, 10:00 in the morning and whatever time you suggested, 6:00 or 7:00 or whatever it is, 8:00 o’clock at night, and then they can pick the time, but it’s two consecutive hours, so it isn’t 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there. They’ll pick a time, and they can vary it, so like weekends you want one time or another. The only thing I would defer to Staff on is if we make it, and it sounds good to do it the way it was suggested, it may make it a little difficult to figure out whether they’re complying, because it’s so open, but that’s not really our problem. If it’s Staff’s problem, Staff can say so. CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Burch. COMMISSIONER BIRCH: I also feel quite confident that being a local store with local family owners and everything they’re not going to want people over drinking at 10:00am, that would just look bad for business, so I support what Commissioner Hanssen has said and allowing them to figure out what their clientele wants. I think it’s a perfectly respectable request. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 18 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 CHAIR KANE: Commissioner Badame. COMMISSIONER BADAME: I would also support the idea that Commissioner Hanssen had as well, and as far as the earlier hours with the drinking, the plus side is you have less traffic, less commuters, so if you do have somebody who can’t handle one ounce of Rombauer and have to leave the store, it’s less likely that… Three ounces. CHAIR KANE: Three ounces. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Okay. CHAIR KANE: Then you go to the frozen food section and you come back and get three more. JESUS VASQUEZ: No, it’s max three; you can’t come back. That would lose our licenses. COMMISSIONER BADAME: Well, I would support Commissioner Hanssen’s idea; I thought that was excellent. CHAIR KANE: In terms of managing the question, the Staff Report said there would be a Lunardi’s employee present during this period, and in the materials you submitted you said there would be a store employee and a representative of what was being sampled. So will there be two… KEN BARONE: I believe it’s “or.” JESUS VASQUEZ: No, it’s “and.” There will be a store manager available at all times. LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 19 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 KEN BARONE: Store manager, yeah. CHAIR KANE: So you won’t leave the wine rep in there by him or herself? JESUS VASQUEZ: Yes. Like it could be me pouring the wine and Ken manning the store and regulating, so there will be multiple people in charge; it’s not just one person on their own. Sometimes three people, sometimes (inaudible). CHAIR KANE: Someone had their hand up. Commissioner Janoff. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I just wanted to comment that the two-hour window does effectively limit your repeat possibilities… JESUS VASQUEZ: Mmm-hmm, and that’s why we’re shooting for a two-hour window. COMMISSIONER JANOFF: …so that’s a really smart limitation. JESUS VASQUEZ: And if you’re spending more than two hours in Lunardi’s, I mean something is going on, right? I mean we do it, but we get paid for it. CHAIR KANE: Anything else? I have one other comment. Commissioner Hanssen brought up the original CUP; she was present, I was present. In your Conditions of Approval the Reason #8 is in here, Rear of the Building, LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 “The rear of the building shall be kept clean and free of litter and storage,” because at that time back in 2015 I circled the building and the back was an absolute mess, so I put this one in here. It’s in the new one, and I was not able to get to the store today, I took an injury, but what does the back of the building look like? JESUS VASQUEZ: It’s clean (inaudible). KEN BARONE: Night and day compared to what it was. JESUS VASQUEZ: Yeah, absolutely. CHAIR KANE: Thank you. Anything else? Then I’m going to close the public portion of the public hearing and I will look to my commissioners for discussion, questions of Staff, or a motion. Commissioner Hanssen. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: If there aren’t any questions, I would be ready to make a motion. CHAIR KANE: Commissioner O'Donnell says you’re making a motion. COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: My motion is to recommend to Town Council that they approve the Conditional Use Permit Application U-18-008 to allow wine and beer tasting on property zoned C-1, APN 523-06-045, and I can make the findings of CEQA, and I can also make the findings for a Conditional Use Permit as stated in Exhibit 2, and would LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 10/10/2018 Item #3, 720 Blossom Hill Road 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recommend the Conditions of Approval in Exhibit 3, with the change to Item 5 that we discussed with the maximum amount of time being two hours and not specifying which hours they are. KEN BARONE: Perfect. JESUS VASQUEZ: Perfect. CHAIR KANE: Do we have a second? Commissioner Burch. COMMISSIONER BIRCH: I will second the motion. CHAIR KANE: Do we have discussion? Seeing none, I’ll call the question. All those in favor, say aye. It passes 7-0. By the way, what I said about being a good neighbor and your hiring policy, I’d like to underscore that. It’s a well-known fact what you do, and it’s much appreciated. KEN BARONE: We’ll pass that along. Thank you. CHAIR KANE: Given that we’re making a recommendation to Council, Mr. Paulson, are there appeal rights at this point? JOEL PAULSON: There are not. CHAIR KANE: Thank you.