15 Attachment 6 - November 15, 2023, Planning Commission Verbatim MinutesLOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 11/15/2023
Item #2, Draft 2023-2031 Housing Element
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Jeffrey Barnett, Chair
Steve Raspe, Vice Chair
Susan Burnett
Melanie Hanssen
Kathryn Janoff
Emily Thomas
Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Gabrielle Whelan
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(619) 541-3405
ATTACHMENT 6
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR BARNETT: Under Verbal Communications, we’re
having the public speak only on our Agenda Item 1 tonight
in which we are asked to consider and make a recommendation
to the Town Council on the Draft Revised 2023-2031 Housing
Element. Location is Town-wide, General Plan Amendment
Application is GP-22-003, and we’ll start with a request to
Staff for a presentation.
ERIN WALTERS: Good evening. The primary purpose
of this item this evening is to ask questions of Staff and
the Town’s housing consultant, Veronica Tam, who is
available on Zoom this evening, on the revised Draft
Housing Element that was submitted to HCD on October 2nd.
Then also to discuss potential modifications based on the
preliminary feedback that was provided by the Town’s HCD
reviewer and provided in the addendum report.
In parallel with this discussion this evening
Town Staff and the consultant continue to work on
implementing the modifications based on the preliminary
draft comments and matrix that also is provided in the
addendum.
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Staff expects to have the Draft Revised Housing
Element and additional modifications completed for a future
special Planning Commission, which at that time the
Planning Commission will review, deliberate, and make
recommendations to Town Council on whether to adopt the
Draft Revised Housing Element with additional
modifications.
As required by Assembly Bill 215 the Draft
Revised Housing Element must be available to the public for
a seven-day review period prior to resubmittal to HCD.
Staff does expect this seven-day period to start on Friday,
November 17th, and it will run through Monday, November 27th.
The Town expects to receive a comment letter from HCD on
the Draft Revised Housing Element on December 1st.
That completes Staff’s presentation. We are
available for questions, and as I stated, the Town’s
housing consultant, Veronica Tam, is available for
questions as well. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for that, Ms. Walters,
and I wanted to commence the meeting by thanking the Staff
and the consultant for their hard work on this difficult
project.
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I’m going to begin by asking Staff to provide us
some guidance regarding the method of proceeding with the
meeting tonight. Thank you.
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question,
Chair.
As presented by the project planner, the intent
of this evening’s meeting really is going to be to discuss
the Housing Element, ask questions of Staff and the
consultant, and hear public comment.
Because we did receive those preliminary comments
from HCD last week and are in the process of putting
together some revisions in response, we do recommend that
today’s discussion really be a discussion and asking
questions, that a future meeting would be the time then to
go through how the Town is responding to each of those
questions one at a time, so it wouldn’t necessarily be the
organized kind of topic-by-topic discussion that, for
example, the Housing Element Advisory Board has had in the
past when we were looking at responses to comments from the
State.
Hopefully that is helpful for understanding the
purpose of the meeting, but we’d be happy to answer any
more questions.
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CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Are there any
questions of Staff by Commissioners at this time?
Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I understand that we’re
supposed to be talking about the topics in the Housing
Element, but I did have a general question about timing,
and I did receive the letter that we received from the Town
Attorney trying to explain this whole timing thing.
I understand HCD is going to respond formerly on
December 1st and that this is sort of an evolving document
in that you already met with them in the preliminary
review, you’re making some changes, but they’re going to
issue their full review on December 1st.
I’m just trying to understand what the urgency is
of the Planning Commission meeting again on the 29th when
it’s two days later that we would know exactly where we
stand with HCD in terms of their view versus doing it
after.
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. The
direction that Staff has been given is to try to make sure
that the Housing Element is available to Town Council as
soon as possible for them to consider it, and one of the
things that are required prior to that is for the Planning
Commission to make a recommendation.
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The thought behind Staff’s recommendation that
the second special meeting of the Planning Commission be on
the 29th is that we will have, with the assistance of our
consultant, prepared responses to these preliminary, kind
of interim comments. As you could see in that chart a lot
of the previous comments have already been addressed, and
so this has given us a kind of interim option to respond to
the remaining outstanding issues as identified by the
preliminary comments.
Our goal is to be able to provide a revised draft
that is substantially in conformance and fully responding
to those outstanding issues, while also giving you an
opportunity to make a recommendation the Town Council can
then review. If there were significant additional comments
that were still outstanding, it might be that we would
return to Planning Commission to review another draft if
needed. This goal really was just to move it forward as
quickly as we could.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So Staff feels confident
with the revisions that you’re making that we should be
largely there when we meet again on the 29th?
JENNIFER ARMER: Correct.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Otherwise we will push it
out. If you don’t mind, Chair, one more follow up question.
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Playing devil’s advocate on this, back in January
the Planning Commission made a communication to adopt the
Housing Element as it stood then, and so what are we doing
on top of that? Since we’ve already made a recommendation
to adopt it, what are we doing now? Adopting this version
of it? I would like to clearly understand the timeline.
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. The discussion
tonight will be of the current draft, but we would be
coming back recommending that the Planning Commission
consider and make a recommendation on a slightly revised
draft in the hope that that gets it very close to whatever
the final version the State says can be certified.
It may be that the Town Attorney has something to
add to that as well.
ATTORNEY WHELAN: It’s very similar, but
ultimately we’re looking for a recommendation to the Town
Council to adopt and amended the Housing Element, and so in
a nutshell that’s what Staff is recommending.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: That’s what I was looking
for. So it’s the amended Housing Element, okay.
CHAIR BARNETT: Other questions at this time from
Commissioners? Otherwise, we’ll open the public portion of
the meeting and ask if members of the public wish to speak
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on Agenda Item 1 for up to three minutes? I don’t have any
cards, but you’re welcome to come forward, please.
JIM ZANARDI: My name is Jim Zanardi; I’ve been a
resident in Los Gatos my whole life, 74 years. I have just
a couple of questions.
According to what I’ve read, the Town of Los
Gatos is above the State requirements in the RHNA numbers
of 1,993 and a buffer of 15%. Right now we have 2,700 units
with a buffer of 57%. Councilman Hudes in November brought
up a question about removing 322 units, Alberto Way, Los
Gatos Lodge, etc., from the inventory. By removing these
sites we would bring our buffer down from 57% to 48%. It
looks to me like we could even remove more sites. The fact
is we can always add additional sites, therefore why add
more units now for our town to bear? Once you put them on,
you can’t take them off. Why not put them on as you need
them? Common sense says why not do that?
The second question is a big concern regarding
environmental studies for any additional sites. Will this
be done?
What I’ve been reading is California has been
losing 250,000 to 350,000 people a year leaving the State.
What are we doing building so many houses throughout the
State? It doesn’t make any sense. Common sense would say we
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don’t need the housing. What are we going to do, sell them
to the homeless? I don’t think so. They’re not going to be
able to afford any of these, so who is going to be in these
houses if people are leaving the State? It doesn’t make any
sense, not zero. That’s all I have to say. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for the comments. Let’s
see if any Commissioners have questions for you. I am not
seeing any. Thank you for coming down and presenting your
comments. Ms. Quintana, whenever you’re ready.
LEE QUINTANA: Thank you. Before I make a
statement, I want to ask a question. Since there’s going to
be new information provided at the next Planning Commission
meeting, will the public be able to comment even if they
commented today?
ATTORNEY WHELAN: Yes.
LEE QUINTANA: Thank you. The only comment I’m
going to make today is based on the question of is it
better to have an oversupply of identified sites, or
eliminate sites and then in the end probably have to add
sites? The question I have is that if sites need to be
added, does that mean that the whole process of going
through HDC is initiated again, or if we have sufficient
buffer sites, then that process will not be necessary and
it will be a faster, smoother process overall?
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Can I add that I would like Staff to answer that
question, or through the Commission answer that question,
now.
CHAIR BARNETT: I think that’s appropriate, and
maybe we can answer Mr. Zanardi’s question as well.
ERIN WALTERS: We’re going to wait until the
housing consultant rejoins us on Zoom to answer that
question.
CHAIR BARNETT: When is that expected?
JENNIFER ARMER: It looks like there may be some
issues with Zoom with things connecting, so she is working
to reconnect; she dropped off for a moment.
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Chair, we might as
well see if there are any other public comments, and then
we can close the public hearing and come back to answer
those questions.
CHAIR BARNETT: Right, so does anyone who is
present here wish to be heard on the Agenda Item 1? I don’t
see any. Do we have anyone on Zoom?
JOEL PAULSON: Thank you, Chair. If you’re
interested in speaking on this item, please raise your hand
if you’re on Zoom. There are no hands raised, Chair.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. I’ll now invite
discussion by the Commissioners on Agenda Item 1, keeping
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in mind Staff’s suggestion as to the scope of our remarks,
and we’ll begin with someone who raises their hand first.
Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I think that we can start
with one of the questions from the first speaker, and that
was just like an overview of what types of projects will
require environmental review per CEQA? Someone from Staff
can probably help with that.
JOEL PAULSON: I’m happy to jump in on that
question.
Right now we have the Housing Element. These
sites have been in the Housing Element for months. We’re
not proposing to remove sites for future projects. Most of
these projects are by-right projects because they were
either in the previous Housing Element and/or they required
rezoning, which has been done by Town Council; the adoption
will be next week. So those will be by-right, and we can
still do Architecture and Site review, but because they are
by-right they generally will not require CEQA.
Additionally, the number of units that were studied in the
General Plan EIR far exceeds the number of units in this
study.
I’ll jump into Ms. Quintana’s question as well. I
think the goal is to get the Housing Element certified.
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Once we get to the no net loss issues that we envision down
the road, then those sites do have to be approved by HCD.
We would use the same methodology for the sites that are
currently in the Housing Element, and if any environmental
study is necessary at that time, we’ll make that
determination.
CHAIR BARNETT: I might add, if you could comment
on the indication that the buffer is in a range of 50%
rather than the 15%?
JOEL PAULSON: Yes, thank you. The current
surplus is 58%. Given the comments that we received from
our preliminary review from the reviewer from HCD, we
envision that a number of those units are going to be
removed, either because of additional information provided
by our reviewer that indicates we may not be able to count
them, and/or from a timing perspective the analysis for
some of those units may take far longer and it’s going to
be quicker and more expeditious to just remove those units
and still maintain the buffer, but the buffer will
ultimately be less than it is currently is what we’re
currently envisioning, and we’ll know that for sure by
Friday.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for that. Commissioner
Hanssen.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Follow up question on what
was just discussed. When we originally put together the
site inventory it was intended to be approximately 15% over
the buffer, and then there was another version where we
added a couple of sites, so we were at I want to say around
25% buffer, and then the new consultant came in. I’m just
recounting my recollection; there’s a question in there.
The consultant came in and we were able to count some sites
that we didn’t know. Is it those sites that might be coming
back out, or sites that are actually in the original site
inventory?
JOEL PAULSON: Thank you for that question. Yes,
we envision that the majority, if not all, of those
permitted entitled sites, which was approximately 250, I
believe, most, if not all of those, will be removed. We’re
still doing the research, but we think the majority of
those have already been reported to the Department of
Finance, which is a trigger that our reviewer brought up
that was not brought up before.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Still waiting for the consultant?
JENNIFER ARMER: No, we do now have Veronica Tam
available if there are questions from the Commission.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Hannsen.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Something that I’ve been
wondering all along, and the three of us have been on the
Housing Element the whole time, is about this AFFH, and the
lion’s share of the preliminary comments were on AFFH, and
if I’m reading the matrix that came in the addendum it
looks like they’re still saying no on a few of the items,
even after we had policy research do a lot of additional
analysis and we reviewed it at the Housing Element Advisory
Board. There clearly was much more detail than was
originally provided, but now they’re still saying no on
some of these items, so I’m just trying to understand where
are we really on this and is there some standard that we
can hold up to that we know about? Because it seems like
they keep pushing back and asking for more details. Is my
question making sense? I’m looking for like where is the
end of this? Because you can do an infinite amount of
analysis on the trends, and they do make some references in
here about what are we going to do in reaction to that, but
does it ever end that we’re in compliance with AFFH? Like
where does it end?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. I
think that is going to be a great first one for our
consultant, Veronica Tam, to speak on to talk about how
those outstanding comments maybe are different, or what
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remains on those comments, and what we anticipate doing to
respond.
VERONICA TAM: Thank you, and I apologize. I was
having some computer problems, so I wasn’t able to hear the
whole conversation. I was able to have video but not audio.
My understanding is that certainly the Town is
concerned that there are iterations of changes, and this is
actually a pretty common process that most jurisdictions
have to take in order to get the Housing Element through.
But I think based on the preliminary comments
that we just got from HCD last week, the additional changes
are pretty technical in nature, and I think the revisions
that we have planned and have done so far will get us very,
very close to the Housing Element certification. Now,
certainly we cannot guarantee it, but I would say that
based on my experience and having worked on probably close
to 60 Housing Elements so far in this cycle, that yours is
very close to getting there, and I think that is what is
indicated to us by the State as well.
What is likely going to happen is that when we
resubmit the revisions to the State by the end of the week
they would be able to incorporate the majority of the
revisions that we have made and dismiss most of the
concerns. It may have some remnants of comments that we
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would see on December 1st and when we get the letter. That
would maybe give us a little bit of time before we go to
Council adoption to make the revisions at that time, but I
think you are probably 95% there.
CHAIR BARNETT: Does that answer your question?
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Could you comment
specifically on the AFFH? I understand what you’re saying
about the overall process, but since you’ve worked on 60
Housing Elements, which is quite a bit and we appreciate
you doing all this work, could you comment specifically on
the AFFH comments? Because this is a new law that we didn’t
have the last time in the fifth cycle.
VERONICA TAM: I think so far the State has looked
at the analysis already, and they have provided additional
comments, mostly in the area of local knowledge. The State
doesn’t want us to just primarily rely on data statistics
to talk about the Town’s fails and issues, but mostly we
have to supplement that with local knowledge.
My team, Jamie, has been working on that as well
with Town Staff to get more about the character, the
history, and the constraints that the Town may have
regarding housing.
Now, the other topic that they want us to beef up
on, I believe, is the racially concentrated areas of
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affluence, because you are a fairly higher-income
community, and this is also very typical. When we work with
ABAG communities there are some fairly high-income
communities that we deal with and we do have to go through
all that discussion as well.
I think generally what’s important to the State
is to make sure that you have a range of sites that are
distributed throughout the Town, and that you have actions
to address existing gaps or discrepancies among
neighborhoods. And again, we are working on like making
that kind of response more prominent. You do have a lot of
actions and programs within your Housing Element that have
beneficial impacts to fair housing but is kind of
distributed throughout the Housing Element plan section, so
as part of the response to the State’s comments we are
creating a matrix that shows exactly which Housing Element
action would respond to fair housing and would have
beneficial impacts.
I think, like I said, a lot of your housing
policies and programs do have beneficial impacts, they’re
just not labeled as fair housing programs, so what we’re
trying to do is to provide a summary in matrix of all the
actions. I think once we’ve done that it would be clearer
to the State how the Town is responding with their housing.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Do you think that at this
stage we’ve gone far enough to comply with AFFH in our
Housing Element?
VERONICA TAM: I think so.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I hear what you’re saying,
taking the individual programs and tying things together,
because it seemed like what they’re looked for was what are
you going to do about it, and since we do have all those
implementation programs, but do you feel like we do have
the kind of implementation programs that will ultimately
satisfy them if you can just put it in front of them the
right way?
VERONICA TAM: I would say that we’re almost
there. Again, I can’t guarantee that you are there yet,
particularly with AFFH, because that is an area that the
State is very, very picky about, but I think based on our
assessment you are really close to getting there, but in
the next couple of weeks or maybe before the Council
adoption, that’s where we’re going to probably have to do a
little bit of negotiation with the State with what we think
is realistic, what we can do, because we also have to make
sure that what the State is asking is realistic, what can
happen in the Town that is implementable. So I think there
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is maybe some back and forth still on the AFFH, but again,
I think we’re very close to getting there.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: I have a follow up question on
that. In the matrix, under AFFH, HCD requires specific
information regarding the Town’s response to the
requirement, and the answer provided by the Town was, “Work
is in progress by this Staff and the consultant to
determine if additional analysis is required that would
result in programs to provide stronger Housing Elements.”
I was concerned about the word if it’s required
or not? It seemed to be questioning the recommendation by
HCD, if you understand my question.
VERONICA TAM: From the preliminary comments we
got it’s not so much about a lot of additional analysis.
There is the additional analysis that they did ask for,
which is the RCAA racially concentrated areas of affluence,
and also on local knowledge.
If Jamie is online, maybe she can comment about
the additional analysis that you have done.
JENNIFER ARMER: No, unfortunately she is not on
the Zoom meeting with us this evening.
VERONICA TAM: Oh, okay. My apology; I thought she
was. Oh, you know what? She is actually in another meeting.
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But I think the preliminary comments that we got
are not so much about a lot of extra analysis. I think we
want to make sure that we present our case the best in
terms of meaningful actions, and that’s why we’re
developing this matrix that (inaudible) issues and
problematic actions that maybe people would not label that
as fair housing programs or actions, but they really do
have beneficial impacts.
CHAIR BARNETT: I see. Okay, thank you. Are there
other questions? Commissioner Burnett.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Yes, I have a question,
and thank you for answering our questions tonight.
I have a question about the ADUs. What is the
basis for increasing the very-low-income distribution for
ADU to 30% when the ABAG housing technical assistance team
actually in September of 2021 reported an affordability of
ADUs recommended jurisdictions with fair housing concerns,
which Los Gatos does have, to use more conservative
assumptions? I noticed our numbers are fairly high
considering we should really maybe be only at like 5%;
anyway much lower numbers than are showing in our report.
VERONICA TAM: I think in general what we are
trying to do is in fact (inaudible) all ADUs, like more
ADUs in areas that have opportunities for it, which is
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high-resource, low-density areas. I think in the future one
of the actions probably is going to try to get ADUs to be
more affordable, more available, to low-income households.
That’s part of the actions that we talked about in
promoting use of housing choice vouchers, promoting the
whole idea about renting ADUs to low-income households. The
goal is to actually make ADUs more affordable to low- and
moderate-income households. I think that’s the reason why
we switched it.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Thank you for that.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I had a couple questions
about the matrix relative to the site inventory. It’s on
page five.
The first one was about the realistic capacity,
and they were saying no, their preliminary review said
we’re not there, and so that seems to be a pretty big deal
to me. Then I looked at their notes. It says, “Program VH
must clarify by right definition for use sites.” It says in
Staff Response that program AS identifies the RHNA sites,
but work is in progress by Staff and the consultants to
include the definition of by right development and program
AS.
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So is that something that’s going to be submitted
this week, or soon? Because that seems like it’s pretty
material to them being satisfied that our site inventory is
developable.
JOCELYN SHOOPMAN: Thank you for the question.
That is part of the work that Staff is going to be working
on and preparing to have go out for the seven-day review
starting on Friday.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, thank you. Then on
SB 9, I don't know if I totally understood it, but it
looked like they were looking for specific sites. This is
on page seven. It’s still pretty new and I think there is
education going on. I don't know that we have any sites in
the site inventory for SB 9, so what would we do in terms
of identifying specific sites?
ERIN WALTERS: Thank you for the question.
Initially we provided how we were calculating the SB 9
number, but we do not have specific sites that are
evaluated. Some communities do have that; the Town does
not, so that is something Staff is currently reviewing
based on this comment.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So we’re still trying to
decide how to respond?
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JENNIFER ARMER: Yes, we are finalizing that. One
of the discussions that we have had is that the way that SB
9 was presented in this current draft is more aligned with
the ADUs where we aren’t identifying specific locations of
where future ADUs are, but that the estimate for number of
new housing units is based on past trends, and so we looked
at the number of SB 9 permits that have come in since that
ordinance was in place and justified it there, as well as
additional justification was prepared by Veronica Tam’s
team that put together an analysis of what sites were
available in Town that met certain criteria, and based on
past practice our understanding was that that was going to
be acceptable to HCD.
What this preliminary comment indicates is that
it may be that they’re not willing to accept that
alternative, that they want analysis that is more like our
sites inventory where we’re identifying specific sites, and
so we will be looking to see how critical those units
numbers are for the overall sites inventory calculation
buffer, etc., and looking to see what, at this point to
expedite this and keep it moving forward, the best course
is going to be.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: A follow up question. My
understanding was that what was done in the most recent
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submission that you had the preliminary review from is that
it was basically a funnel, which made a lot of sense to me.
When I went to the Planning Commissioners Academy
a year ago in 2022 one of the consultants to the State had
done basically a funnel and they looked at all the housing
in the State and what could possibly be feasible, and what
was financially feasible, and so they came up with what was
a very low percentage of the total. I thought that was kind
of the direction we were going, and now I’m hearing that
HCD actually wants you to treat it like site inventory, and
then what I heard you say as a follow up, if I heard it
correctly, is that we might be taking those sites out.
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Chair. Joel Paulson,
Community Development Director. Yes, this current version
that was submitted in October did have kind of that funnel
of looking at a parcel size that’s reasonable for two
units, looking at all the parcels in town that would allow
SB 9 that fit in that bucket, and then paring that down
even further to what I think I recall is less than 1% of
those parcels. That’s been a method that has been accepted
elsewhere previously, but as we’re finding as our region as
gone through the process, things that might have been
accepted in Southern California are not being accepted any
longer, so we’re weighing how quickly we could do that type
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of analysis, and if we can’t do it quickly enough and if we
have enough buffer, then it’s just simpler for us to remove
those units from the numbers.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: That makes sense, but it’s
a little bit scary in the sense that we’re hopefully close
to being done, but then that’s 96 units, but we do have
more buffer, so I’m sure you guys will figure that out, but
that seems like a bit of a red flag for me, especially
since I believe it came from one of our Councilmembers to
make sure we included SB 9 sites since that law was put in
place.
CHAIR BARNETT: Is there any comment from Staff
before I take Commissioner Janoff’s question?
JOEL PAULSON: It looks like the consultant has
some additional comments.
VERONICA TAM: I just want to emphasize that it is
not uncommon that even HCD would recommend an approach like
that, because we are close to getting a certified Housing
Element, but we’re not removing the opportunity of SB 9. SB
9 is still being discussed in the Housing Element; it’s
still an opportunity for sites, particularly for moderate-
and above-moderate-income type of housing, because SB 9 is
not likely going to generate units that are lower income.
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It’s still in the Housing Element, it’s still an
opportunity that the Town will continue to pursue, it’s
just not being used to count towards the RHNA for adequate
site purposes, but when you do build units you do have an
SB 9 application processed you do get credits against the
RHNA. Getting adequate sites analysis is a little bit
different than getting credits for RHNA for
accomplishments, so you will get accomplishments when you
do have SB 9 applications processed.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you, and thank you
for that clarification, Ms. Tam; that was very, very
important. I think when Staff said we’ll be taking sites
off the inventory to expedite the process, it kind of makes
us pause a bit, but this makes very, very good sense. If
the hurdle to get these sites on the inventory with the
type of analysis that’s been done is prohibitive in terms
of the amount of time and we’ve got the buffer, take them
off. That’s a very, very simple and elegant solution, so
thank you for that clarification.
CHAIR BARNETT: Other questions from
Commissioners? Vice Chair Raspe.
VICE CHAIR RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I notice one
of the open issues on our matrix is the story pole
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discussion, and I know the Planning Commission had a
lengthy hearing on that and provided our comments to Town
Council. I’m just curious as to where we are in that
process, and if we believe it’s going to be resolved in
time for this element to get certified? Thank you.
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question; I
can provide an update.
We are currently scheduled to go back to Town
Council on December 5th for them to continue that
discussion, however, based on the discussion that was held
by Town Council on August 1st we have been able to draft
some additional language for the Housing Element to give
more specificity about the motions that were made and
approved by a majority of Town Council. So we’ve been able
to add that in and draft some language that describes some
of the changes that have already been approved by Town
Council so that it can provide clarity to the State that
that work is already ongoing and that Town Council has
already approved some motions for changes.
VICE CHAIR RASPE: Thank you so much for that
answer.
CHAIR BARNETT: I’ll jump in with a question. In
my review of the matrix it appeared to me that the most
recent HCD comments were bringing up new material rather
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than delving further into prior answers. Do you have any
sense of that?
JENNIFER ARMER: I can jump in, and then we might
see if Veronica has something more to add.
When we look at the list of comments, these are
actually the comments from our last letter, and then there
is an additional column that talks about which ones have
been resolved and which have not. It appears that almost
half of them are marked as resolved, that the work that’s
been done is already enough, and that it’s just there’s
some more that’s needed to fully resolve the remaining 16
items on this chart.
There are some cases where they’re asking for
more detail than we thought was needed to resolve the
question, but that was one of the benefits of this
preliminary conversation in the middle of our 60-day
review, that we could touch the base with them and find out
where we needed to go further.
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Chair, as we noted in
the Staff responses, we tried to add where we address these
comments in the current version. I think this is a pattern
that we’ve seen with all of their letters: we provide
information and then they come back and say they want
additional information or additional analysis. I think this
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is just a continuation of that and we’re hopeful that we’re
going to get over the hurdle this round.
CHAIR BARNETT: So my layman’s analysis that HCD
was bringing up new issues doesn’t seem to be founded,
they’re just trying to get the additional information to
satisfy previous inquiries.
JOEL PAULSON: That’s correct. As Ms. Armer
mentioned, these are the comments from May that were
addressed.
CHAIR BARNETT: Okay, thank you. Commissioner
Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I may come back and ask
additional questions on the matrix, but could I ask a
procedural question? Since we’ve been at this for several
rounds, when we actually get a letter from HCD will it say
that we’re done, or are they still going to have lingering
questions? What would be normal when we are actually done?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. We
might actually see if Veronica Tam might tell what those
look like for the other communities she has worked for, but
my understanding is the goal is done, but most likely there
will be a few more back and forth as she was mentioning
earlier; there may be a little bit of negotiation that
needs to be done to really close it out.
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VERONICA TAM: The goal is to get to a letter by
December 1st that it would say if adopted as revised the
Housing Element would comply with State law. It actually
reminds me, we are doing the rezoning soon, or there is no
rezoning that needs to be done later on, but if there is
any kind of rezoning that needs to be done, then the letter
will say the Housing Element will be found to be in
compliance once the rezoning is done.
I would say that in the December 1st letter you
will still have some remnants of comments, but I’m
confident that with the revisions that we’re doing right
now we should be able to dismiss the majority of the 16
items.
The other few items are really a negotiation.
It’s the art of a review that gives me the reviewing
authority to do that type of back and forth, and I think we
may have to do a little bit of back and forth, but I think
with the revisions that we are working on we should be able
to dismiss the majority of the comments because most of
them are technical in nature; that shouldn’t have a lot of
negotiation.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Janoff.
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COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you. Could you
clarify what that negotiation is? Is that a conversation
between you, Staff, and HCD saying no really, it’s in
there? Could you explain what negotiation means?
VERONICA TAM: I’ll give some examples and
hopefully that’s not going to be too frustrating for
jurisdictions, and I go through this all the time.
There will be some times, and our goal is to do
50 units and affordable units in over eight years or
something for a small community, and a city may come back
and say we think that you can do a little higher, and so
we’ll kind of move back and forth and say realistically we
think we can push it up to 80, but that’s all we can do.
So that kind of “negotiation” is not so much
about… I think that’s the type of things that we should be
expecting.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: If I may? So are you saying
that these negotiations happen verbally back and forth, or
is this a letter to us and a letter back?
VERONICA TAM: It would be verbally. What we try
to do also is every time before and after we submit a draft
to the State we have a meeting with the State and we talk
about what they’re looking for, ask them to clarify what
exactly are they looking for, and we had that meeting just
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recently, I think a couple of days ago, just to clarify
what they are looking for.
So I think after we resubmit, and I don’t think
we would have an opportunity, given the holidays next week,
to have a meeting with them, but if possible we should try
to get a meeting with them before they issue the letter.
But even after they issue the letter we would arrange a
meeting to just go over the remnants of comments and what
expectations they have. I think definitely the State is in
the position of pushing higher. We are holding our ground
to see what we can do realistically as well.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Just as a follow up, when
you refer to “we,” you’re referring to yourself and some
Town Staff, or is it just your office that will do this
negotiation?
VERONICA TAM: It would not be just me, because I
work for you, but the Town Staff is certainly taking the
lead and I’m there to facilitate the discussions. I
understand a little bit more about where they’re coming
from and maybe between the lines what they are asking, so
I’m trying to facilitate those discussions, but definitely
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Staff takes the lead because only Staff understands the
resources and constraints that the Town is facing.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Okay, perfect. I do have an
additional question.
CHAIR BARNETT: Please.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I do think that we had a
couple of other questions through public comment that it
would be helpful for us to just discuss. I know some of us
have sat on the Housing Element Advisory Board for a while,
so we’re a little bit familiar with this, but can either
Town Staff of Ms. Tam explain why the sites inventory looks
as it does with the buffer? I know we kind of covered this
already.
In addition to that, why is it important to
include all of these sites to get it passed versus adding
sites later down the road? And then if sites do need to be
added, how does that work?
JOCELYN SHOOPMAN: Thank you for the question.
There have been no changes to the sites inventory; we have
not added or removed sites. The discussion of the surplus
increasing really is coming from this new bucket of these
entitled finaled or permitted units that we didn’t
previously include in the January version that was adopted,
so that’s approximately 250 units. When you add those
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additional units; that has resulted in the increased
surplus. It’s not because the Town had added any new sites
to the sites inventory.
We did receive preliminary feedback in this
matrix from HCD about those no additional 250 units, and so
that’s part of the work we’re doing this week to review and
see if those units have in fact already been reported to
the Department of Finance, in which case they would be
removed and the surplus would be decreased.
CHAIR BARNETT: Follow up?
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes.
CHAIR BARNETT: Please.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I think that it’s clear why
that percentage changed, but from day one we’ve had a lot
of comments from the public and concern about the number of
sites included and the total number of units, so I was
hoping we as a group could very briefly go over the
importance of why we need to have all of these sites on our
initial list instead of adding more as we go, which I know
we’ve discussed, but I think it needs to be addressed
again.
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Chair, maybe Ms. Tam
could respond a little differently to should we be removing
sites at this point? This has been predominantly the same
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as what was adopted in January, so there hasn’t been a
change. There have been many comments of concern when we
went up to the 25% buffer, but ultimately that was adopted,
so that’s where we are.
The other bucket that it was added, again, has
been discussed, but Ms. Tam, if you would maybe provide
comments on what implications there might be if the
Planning Commission ultimately wanted to recommend removing
some of the existing sites.
VERONICA TAM: For one thing, I think everybody
has heard enough about SB 166, monitoring of no net loss,
which is a new State law that applies to the six-cycle
Housing Element that any time when a site in your inventory
is developed, if it’s developed with fewer units than
projected in the Housing Element, or fewer affordable units
by income distribution, you have to do an accounting of
whether the remaining sites inventory has the ability to
meet the RHNA.
Because of your town, the market economics, the
majority of the Housing Element sites when they’re
developed are not likely to be developed with a lot of
affordable units, probably just your inclusionary
requirements, that type of project. But for the purpose of
doing adequate sites analysis, the State does allow us to
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use density as a proxy so that we are allowed to count most
of the sites that are higher density as housing sites that
are feasible for facilitating lower income, so when actual
development happens you are likely going to have a net loss
against your sites inventory, so for that reason the State
recommends a buffer between 15-30%; that’s in the sites
inventory guide book provided by HCD. The higher income
area, the more expensive the communities, I think the
higher the buffer should be because more likely that you’re
going to result in a net loss of affordable units when your
sites are being built.
Now, can you remove sites right now? I certainly
do not recommend it, because removing the sites means that
we have to completely redo the AFFH analysis. At the end of
AFFH analysis there is an analysis of how your sites
inventory is distributed across different neighborhoods,
different demographics and characteristics in your
community, and therefore conclude whether the sites are
promoting fair housing. So if you choose to reduce sites
right now, we will have to redo the AFFH analysis, and that
would substantially delay the whole Housing Element
certification process, because HCD would need to review
that whole section again.
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Now, when you run into a net loss situation in
the future it only gives you six months to actually
identify replacement sites or rezone additional sites to
replenish your sites inventory, so having a high enough
buffer today would save you trouble as you go down the
line, because we all know rezoning and identifying new
sites is not an easy task. State law only gives you 180
days to do that, so having a healthy buffer is going to
take you a long way when your sites are eventually
developed.
JOEL PAULSON: And through the Chair, I would add
also that since Council has already introduced all but one
site for the Housing Element Overlay Zone, we certainly
wouldn’t want to be looking at reducing any of those sites.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: My next question is about
if that rezoning and the taking out of that one space is
going to impact our Housing Element at all, or the
certification process of it, and if so, how can we remedy
that?
JOEL PAULSON: Thank you for the question.
Because it’s only 16 units in the Housing Element and
they’re all above moderate, it’s not going to have an
impact like a parcel or number of parcels that also include
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affordable housing as a part of that. So we have looked at
that, because that is a potential option as well to
bringing that buffer down, or that surplus down, that
slight bit more.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: So then is that site still
going to stay in, but just at the current zoning, or will
it get removed because it’s not getting rezoned at this
point?
JOEL PAULSON: I would say that is unknown and
it’s really a timing issue, because actually that one site
is going back to the Council on December 5th, so in between
there we’re looking at options for when we come back on the
29th, if Planning Commissioners are available. Potentially
there’s an option to remove that site, but also to include
language in any resolution or future action that because it
was in before, should the Council choose to rezone that
site in the interim in the timing that would accomplish
certification, then we could always add that back without
having to come back through a full cycle with the
Commission.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Okay, thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Since it was asked in the
public comments I thought we should bring this up, and
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because it’s also come up in other meetings as well. The
out migration from California to other states that started
picking up during the pandemic and hasn’t really changed
much, has it had any impact at all on the State’s and HCD’s
interest in pursuing all this AFFH? Has it had any
tampering of following through on everything that we’re
being asked to do?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question.
This is a topic and a question and concern that was brought
up actually enough years back that it was part of the
General Plan update process, that there were these news
articles and discussion of this, and there are different
studies on what these numbers are, but at this point it is
not changing what the requirements for the State are in
terms of the housing capacity that communities need to
provide in their Housing Element.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: I have one question, Ms. Tam, and
that is I gather you found HCD to be very responsive in
terms of time on these iterations and you expect it to
continue to be the case. I assume that they’re overwhelmed,
but it sounds like you’re managing. Can you comment on
that?
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VERONICA TAM: They are definitely overwhelmed,
and they are also understaffed; I think that’s probably a
fair comment. They do have statutory deadlines to make, and
so a lot of times what we do if we want to push them to
respond faster is actually do a formal submittal, because
then they are bound by a statutory deadline or (inaudible)
timeline for you.
I do try to engage them in an informal kind of
review first, and to the extent I can get them to commit to
responding faster through informal review I do try to do
that, but informal reviews do run a risk, because they are
not obligated to respond in a timely manner for informal
review.
I think at this stage we want to do formal
reviews; that’s why we have submitted for the 60-day review
and we’re getting a letter. At this stage the State is also
starting their review of Housing Elements in the Monterey
Bay and San Joaquin Valley areas, and so I think we run the
risk of being pushed behind the line if we don’t commit
them to a statutory required timeframe. So at this time I
do recommend going through everything formal review, but we
all try to have interim conversations with the State during
the formal timeframe.
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CHAIR BARNETT: So would it be fair to say that
you’re in agreement with the Staff in terms of the probable
timing for Planning Commission review and Council review?
VERONICA TAM: Yes.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Commissioner Burnett.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Yes, thank you. A question
for Staff, a follow up question. What would be the most
likely timeline for the certification of the Housing
Element if it didn’t happen on December 1st?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. As
was laid out in the Staff Report, our recommendation is
that you continue this discussion until November 29th, and
to add to what I was saying earlier with a little
specificity, if we want to allow time for the Town Council
to consider the Housing Element before the end of the year,
their final meeting is on December 19th, and the deadlines
for putting an ad in the paper for this item to go to that
meeting is actually on November 30th, and so that’s why the
29th is a critical date in that timeline, and we do need to
include wording in that ad that reflects what the
recommendation from Planning Commission was. So that’s how
we got to that timeline.
The hope, based on the description that Ms. Tam
has shared as well, is that once we have that meeting with
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Planning Commission and you’ve provided a recommendation
based on the additional changes, we then get a formal
letter from the State on Friday, December 1st. We hope that
at that point either all of the comments have been resolved
or it is only a few minor issues, and so that any remaining
revisions that need to be done are minor enough that they
don’t need to come back to Planning Commission, that your
recommendation can stand and can be brought to Town Council
on the 19th along with any additional feedback based on the
comment letter for December 1st.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for those comments.
Helpful. I’m not seeing any hands raised, and I don’t have
any more questions, so why don’t we move on to the issue of
the continuance and see if there’s a motion for a
continuance of this hearing to November 29, 2023 at 7:00
o'clock. Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I’m happy to do that, but I
do have a clarification question for Staff. So that’s going
to be another special meeting on the 29th?
JENNIFER ARMER: That is correct, because it’s
not a regularly scheduled date for Planning Commission.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I move to continue this
item to a date certain of November 29, 2023 for a special
meeting at 7:00pm.
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CHAIR BARNETT: Is there a second? Commissioner
Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I second the motion.
CHAIR BARNETT: I assume there’s no discussion,
so I’ll call for a raise of hands of those Commissioners in
favor, and that’s unanimous. Thank you very much.
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