Attachment 5 - April 26, 2023 Planning Commission Verbatim MinutesLOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/26/2023
Item #3, Modifications to the Town Height Pole and
Netting Policy for Additions and New Construction
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A P P E A R A N C E S:
Los Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Jeffrey Barnett, Chair
Steve Raspe, Vice Chair
Susan Burnett
Melanie Hanssen
Kathryn Janoff
Emily Thomas
Town Manager: Laurel Prevetti
Community Development
Director:
Joel Paulson
Town Attorney: Gabrielle Whelan
Transcribed by: Vicki L. Blandin
(619) 541-3405
ATTACHMENT 5
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P R O C E E D I N G S:
CHAIR BARNETT: We’ll move onto Agenda Item 3,
which is also a request for a recommendation to the Town
Council, this time on Modification to the Town Height Pole
and Netting Policy for Additions and New Construction, and
the proposed amendments to the Town policy are not
considered a project under CEQA.
I’ll ask if Staff has a presentation on this
matter?
JENNIFER ARMER: Good evening, Chair, Vice Chair,
Commissioners. The item in front of you is consideration of
changes to the Town’s Height Pole and Netting Policy, often
referred to as the Story Pole Policy.
This discussion was requested by Town Council as
part of recent discussion of requests for exceptions to the
current Story Pole Policy, as well as being included as an
implementation program in the current Draft Housing
Element.
This was expected to be a work plan for
discussion by Council Policy Committee, but they directed
Staff to move forward and bring the discussion to Planning
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Commission for consideration and recommendation to Town
Council on what changes might be warranted based on
previous discussion with Town Council, as well as outreach
to story pole installers, architects, and developers in
town.
The written Staff Report includes several topics
for discussion, including projects over 35’ in height, guy
wires particularly when the story poles are close to
property lines, projects with multiple buildings,
interference with existing residences and businesses, and
the exception process. These items are intended to initiate
tonight’s discussion, but we also invite questions and
recommendations for other modifications.
This concludes Staff’s presentation, but I’d be
happy to answer any questions.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for that report.
Questions from the Commissioners for Staff? Commissioner
Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: We received a comment
letter in the addendum and one of the items mentioned was
about having to submit a story pole plan preceding
implementing the story poles, and it’s mentioned in the
Staff Report that there are certain jurisdictions in Santa
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Clara County that do not have story pole requirements and
other ones do. Do most people that have story pole policies
require a story pole plan, or do they leave it the experts
to implement it?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. I
don’t have that level of detail on the other policies that
other municipalities have. It does seem to vary
significantly from one community to another as to how they
implement this requirement. In some cases there is a
written policy that is available online, in other cases it
is just a Staff policy that is required as part of
processing these projects, and the types of projects that
they apply to also varies from one community to another, so
we saw a wide variety of that.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Thank you for that. It was
probably more (inaudible) than I would have expected that
you would have, but I wanted to add onto that question and
ask when we do these view corridor things outside people do
the view corridors, and when we do CEQA we get an outside
company to do the CEQA, so why do we require a story pole
plan? It wasn’t on the list of discussion topics, but when
I saw the letter it made me think what would happen if we
didn’t do that.
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JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. I
would say that taking a look at the introduction to the
current Story Pole Policy is very helpful in understanding
the purpose behind having a policy like this. It emphasizes
two primary purposes. One is to show the size and massing
of the proposed buildings or renovation, and the second is
to call attention to the proposed project for public
involvement, and so based on that language I would say that
those are the goals.
There are other ways to address those particular
issues: signage and then simulations or other types of
flagging, for example, some of the examples that were
provided in the Staff Report. Did that answer your
question?
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: No, what I was asking was
it’s not about whether they do story poles or not, it was
specifically about having to submit a written story pole
plan prior to putting up the story poles. Why do we do
that, and what would happen if we didn’t require that step
in the process?
JENNIFER ARMER: Based on my experience in
looking at story pole plans it’s often helpful for Staff to
ensure that there are poles representing the massing of the
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building in compliance with the Story Pole Policy, but in
general a lot of the times the certification that we
receive states that the story poles are consistent with the
proposed plans, so I think there is room for that type of
modification if the Planning Commission is supportive of
that. Then I want to check in with our Community
Development Director to see if he has any further thoughts
on that.
JOEL PAULSON: I will say just for discussion,
the potential implication is we don’t have a plan, they put
up poles, we go out and look at them and say, “That doesn’t
work. Modify them.” We still don’t have a plan, they modify
them, and it still doesn’t meet what we want. So the plan
really is, “Here’s the plan. Put them up,” and there we go.
So that’s the other side of it for the potential
implications.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: That’s good for now.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Burnett.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Thank you, Chair. I feel
that our Story Pole Policy has served us very well since
1998. I think it’s very important for citizens to have
story poles.
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I have one question for Staff. A 35’ tall
building, for example, how high is 35’? Because we keep
talking about 35’and the wind and how that affects at 35’,
so how tall is 35’ if we’re looking? Can you give me an
example?
JENNIFER ARMER: What I would say is that in many
areas in town, residential or commercial, the maximum
height currently is 30-35’, and so that gives you a sense.
In downtown the maximum height is 45’. We do have
properties that exceed those height limits in some cases,
but if you think of the housing that you see around town,
if it’s a two-story house it’s often between 28-35’,
sometimes a bit smaller.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Other questions of Staff? I have
a question. I should know the answer to this, but are story
poles required if there are added roof elements to a
single- or second-story house that do not affect the
massing?
JENNIFER ARMER: If there are roof elements that
don’t affect the massing, based on that description I would
say that no, story poles would not be required. We do
occasionally have additions to an existing two-story home
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where the addition would change substantially the massing
of that second story. It may only be requiring a Minor
Residential Development Application and so wouldn’t be
going to a public hearing, but that we would request the
story poles be installed. Also, if it’s a brand new second
story on an existing single-story house, we do require them
for those.
CHAIR BARNETT: Understood. Thank you. Other
questions? Vice Chair Raspe.
VICE CHAIR RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I had a
question for Staff. Just anecdotally, I’m having problems
with the orange netting versus any other type of material
that we can use for story poling, for instance, the pendant
flagging or any others. I know we went through a period of
very high wind and weather in the past several months. I’m
curious, just again in your experience, have those
particular materials proved more problematic than others,
for instance?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question.
Yes, as you will see in the comments from the story pole
installers there is concern when you go over 30-35’,
especially if it’s in an area where it will be catching the
wind, that that can cause hazards for those taller poles
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when you use the netting. There didn’t seem to be a concern
with using the flagging instead.
This was the source of the recent story pole
exception requests, because there were taller buildings
involved in the Wood Road project and then in the
Winchester Boulevard project that will be coming forward to
you in the coming months. There were concerns, and so a
request for an exception to the Story Pole Policy did go to
Town Council, and that is where we got this discussion of
should we include a specific exception that if it’s over a
certain height they’d be allowed to do some alternative
method?
VICE CHAIR RASPE: Thanks very much.
CHAIR BARNETT: Other questions? We have a card
from Ms. Wiersema. If you could come forward, please? I’ll
open the public hearing.
BESS WIERSEMA: Hi, Bess Wiersema, Studio3, but
I’m not here for just me. I’m here representing Gary
Kolhsaat, Tony Jeans, Tom Sloan, Jennifer Kretschmer, Louis
Leu, Noel Cross, and Jay Plett.
After Jennifer sent the notification out about
the story pole potential revisions, or discussion or
whatever we’re calling this, we did all get together,
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because I think one thing that I can say we all have in
common is we strongly disagree that story poles are
helpful.
We actually believe they are more hurtful and
that they are an outdated method for displaying and
explaining a project. We live in a time where people can do
3-D models and can pin them to a height requirement or to a
pole, and then turn those in and they’re going to actually
show the finished product of what a project looks like.
They’re not going to be ugly, orange, flapping poles that
deer run into, bicyclists run into, kids run around, get
torn down, etc.
I think all of us would agree that if someone
built a house that looked like something that was story
poled none of us would like that house, and yet that’s
exactly what story poles convey. They do not convey
anything that exists in the character of how we are
supposed to design homes as architects.
Massing can be better seen in 3-D models, and
visualization and should be allowed to be an exception
unless a project is highly contested or needs to go to
Planning Commission. I think these are all things that you
guys would find to be actually more useful in terms of
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creating neighborly conversation between houses and their
built environment, changes in their built environment, and
also are more realistic.
I want to remind you that story poles that sit in
hillsides do not show things like retaining walls, terraced
hillsides, the other grading that occurs on the site that
creates a finished product in the end, and so often the
interpretation of what we consider massing is really
irrelevant to actually what it is in the long run.
We do have a concern about the way story pole
plans are reviewed in town. No other jurisdiction locally
that we do have story poles go up in has a review process
that’s as significant as the one here in Los Gatos. The one
in Los Gatos is time consuming, requires more rounds of
revisions, and in an effort to try to streamline the
process we just respectfully ask that you trust the
professionals that are putting them up and putting a
certified letter together for you. We don’t need to build a
whole house out of pick-up sticks and netting.
Lastly, I do want to correct something. We do get
required to put story poles up on existing second homes,
even for things like dormers, because while there is the
option that we can maybe ask for an exception, often the
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exception is not granted. I have several projects of my own
that I could speak to, and I know that the architects all
have others too, and that was one of the reasons we wrote
some of those bullet points in there saying if we’re adding
dormers to an existing second story house, yes, dormers can
change some of the massing, but they’re really not changing
the big over all footprint and mass of the home, so we
often even on a Minor Residential application are required
to do story poles. These just add more time and more
expense.
A basic story pole package, including plans, for
a regular new home in Los Gatos costs about $20,000. I’m
sure we’d all rather spend $20,000 on beautiful
architectural details, especially if the house is not
contested by neighbors and meets the design guidelines.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. I’ll ask if there are
questions for you from the Commissioners? I’m not seeing
any, so thank you for that. Ms. Somers.
CATHERINE SOMERS: Catherine Somers again with
the Los Gatos Chamber of Commerce.
This is really kind of a big topic, but I would
start with saying that houses at the end of the day are not
orange and they’re not see-through, and I think that Bess
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was correct in stating that story poles are something that
we used to rely on, but now there are so many other tools,
but with that said I do actually still believe that we need
to come up with other ways of engaging the public perhaps
so that they can go and utilize those other tools that are
available.
However, going back to the story poles, I do
think that they are truly causing impediments, and I’m
really here representing a lot of my members again at the
Chamber of Commerce who are architects and builders and who
have been really frustrated with this process as of late,
and I’m hoping that you’ll consider tonight coming up with
other options so that they can work through these building
processes more quickly and efficiently, because it really
is causing some strain and concern, not only on the part of
the architects and the builders, but also on the homeowners
themselves.
It’s also causing constraints on the Building
Department themselves because we’re spending a lot of time
on some of these residential homes that really are pretty
easy maybe, and then we have a lot of commercial projects
also, so I think we need to alleviate some of that street
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from our Building Department if that’s at all possible.
That’s one other point.
Then the last one, I’ve watched the Planning
Commission deliberate over some of the story poles and what
it looks like to you, the orange story poles that are see-
through, and I think the architects in particular are
professionals and they’ve gone to school for this for years
and years, and sometimes when they’re talking about 2’
versus 3’ or an indent here or an indent there, I think we
really have to learn to accept and acknowledge that they
know what they’re talking about, and so I think if they’re
saying right now that the story poles are obsolete and
there are other ways of sharing with the public what their
designs will look like, then they should be able to do it
that way. There will still be opportunities for you to say
nope, that doesn’t fit the character, or no, that’s too
high, but I just think that the story poles aren’t really
telling that story anymore. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you, Ms. Somers. Are there
questions from Commissioners for you? No. Thank you very
much.
JOEL PAULSON: Chair, we do have a speaker that
is on Zoom.
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CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you very much for bringing
that to my attention.
JOEL PAULSON: I’m going to allow Don Capobres to
speak. Go ahead. You have three minutes.
DON CAPOBRES: Good evening, Chair Barnett,
Commission, and Staff. I really wish I were there in
person. My name is Don Capobres with Harmonie Park
Development. I’ve worked on the North Forty project for
over 15 years.
In the context in which we were required to
implement it, the Town’s story pole policy is an anti-
housing development tool.
In his February 10th letter on the Town’s Draft
Housing Element, which was sent to HCD, our attorney Eric
Phillips stated, “Requiring story poles creates unnecessary
tension within the community and can create false
expectations about the Town’s ability to deny or modify
design elements such as height or massing that are
consistent with the Town’s development standards. For
example, during phase one of the North Forty development,
acres and acres of unsightly story poles stirred up angst
among community members to temporarily derail the approval
process.
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However, given that the phase one development and
many other housing developments are protected by State laws
that prevent the Town from denying or reducing the density
of housing development projects, including the Housing
Accountability Act, the State Density Bonus Law, story
poles do nothing more than create unnecessary opposition to
projects that are legally entitled to move forward. Said
simply, the Town’s outdated story pole policy is impeding
housing production. We will continue to voice this
sentiment to HCD and other decision makers as long as
policies such as this remain in the books.
The Town must allow simpler, less burdensome, and
more effective ways of providing notice and information
such as large informational signs posted onsite, and using
3-D renderings, fly-through videos, and other technological
methods that convey similar information without
unreasonably burdening development projects. This is
especially true as to meet the Town’s housing needs it will
have to allow for taller buildings with heights that make
the Town’s current story pole policy technically infeasible
to implement.
Further, unless members of the public are invited
to walk the interior of a private property, and also we did
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invite some officials onsite in phase one, there is no
requirement to do so. Story poles can only be seen from
public right-of-ways, making understanding the context of a
larger proposal increasingly challenging.”
I do have specific data regarding costs and
logistics on the story pole exercise for phase one on the
North Forty and I’m happy to share if you have any
questions. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you, Mr. Capobres, and I’ll
ask if any Commissioners have questions for you? I’m not
seeing any. Thank you very much. We have no further
speakers on Zoom.
If there is no further discussion by the
Commissioners, I’ll call for a motion.
JENNIFER ARMER: Through the Chair, once you have
closed the public hearing, then we would go back to
discussion with the Commissioners.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you, I omitted that. So we
will close the public portion of the public hearing and now
ask Commissioners if they have further questions for Staff,
wish to comment on the request, or propose a motion?
Commissioner Hanssen.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: This is sort of a question
for Staff. As I read the Staff Report it looked to me like
this was a substitute for a Policy Committee meeting in the
form of a Planning Commission. What I thought we were
supposed to be doing is taking the topic, for example,
projects over 35’ feet in height. There’s a question at the
end, “Should modifications be made to allow one or two rows
of flagging for buildings over 35’ in height?” What I
thought we were going to do is similar to what we did with
the last item where we would discuss each one of these
items, and I think what we’re trying to do is make a
recommendation to Council on ideas, concepts, for the Story
Pole Policy to go back to Council or the Policy Committee,
or I’m not sure, so my question is am I on the right track
and what is Staff hoping for out of this?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question.
Yes, we did structure this Staff Report similarly to the
last item with sub-topics of interest. This is not quite as
fully developed in terms of direction or recommendation
from the Staff since there are a number of topics that
could have a number of different solutions, and so looking
for some initial direction from Planning Commission for
Staff to develop some additional details, or if the
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Planning Commission finds that they have specific
recommendations that they feel comfortable making at this
time to Town Council, we can do that as well, so on each of
these items I think it will depend on whether the Planning
Commission feels they have sufficient information to make
suggested changes which we could then take forward to Town
Council, or whether there is additional information or
input that you are looking for.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: A follow up question.
Nowhere in the Staff Report is a discussion topic saying
should we or should we not have a Story Pole Policy. Do you
want us to have that discussion as well?
JENNIFER ARMER: As I stated in my presentation,
we would welcome any discussions about the Story Pole
Policy, which we have heard interest in maintaining, but
maybe that is the recommendation of the property line about
whether we should have one at all or whether it should be
modified, and if modified, then in what ways?
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Burnett.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Not a question for Staff,
but I can make my own comments.
CHAIR BARNETT: Please, go ahead with your
comments.
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COMMISSIONER BURNETT: I think instead of talking
for architects and builders I’m talking for the citizens of
Los Gatos.
I feel, and I think story poles have served us
actually very well since 1998. We’ve had this policy moving
forward, and as I say, I think it’s an important policy and
I think story poles are important, and I think people in
general are made aware of a project and that could affect
the project, it could affect their view, it could affect
the light, it could affect the streetscape. When you see
story poles you get a good feeling of what’s going to be
there, and I think that’s important. When you’re driving by
you see that’s going to be coming up.
They say videos and photos and whatever, but
people aren’t going to be looking at videos; they’re not
going to take the time to do that. You want to see what’s
going to be built. You want to get a feeling for it. You
want to see if mountains are going to be hidden. There are
so many different concerns.
Then comments like other towns are no longer
using story poles. Well, if you look at the towns that
they’ve suggested, these are big towns. We’re Los Gatos.
We’re a small town and we’re impacted more, so I think it’s
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more important to know what’s happening in the Town, and I
think they’re especially important in the hillsides. That
was interesting. I really want to see what’s happening in
my hillside; I want to see those story poles.
I would make suggestions that maybe we could
streamline the permit process to make it easier and maybe
try to cut costs for the builders; I’m sympathetic to that,
so maybe that could be one area. We would look at the
buildings that are very high, over 35’, and maybe think of
different colored flags. I know there was an issue with two
sets of flags, and maybe it’s because they’re the same
color, maybe that was why they couldn’t be seen.
Then there was the idea of putting your poles if
the property line is… What did I say? Put the poles inward
on the property, because I know there was an issue about
where you put the poles; I know that was an issue.
But in general I think the citizens of Los Gatos
like story poles, and personally I think we should keep
them in, maybe with some suggestions for small changes and
adjustments. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for those comments.
Commissioner Thomas.
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COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I guess I have a question
for you, Chair. Are we going to go through each of these
projects, or do you want us to first give our generic
overview, or should we go through each of the items as
recommended for the discussion and direction by Staff on
page 62.
CHAIR BARNETT: We’re going through A, B, C, D,
E, and F.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Are we going through by
order, or no?
CHAIR BARNETT: Why don’t we proceed in that way,
as suggested by Commissioner Hanssen? Let’s go with A on
projects exceeding 35’.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes, and so can I ask a
question about that?
CHAIR BARNETT: Please.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I don't know if you can
answer this, but my question is what are the options and
the cost difference for things that are different for
projects over 35’ in height?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. I
don’t have information specifically about the cost. I think
it varies significantly on the different types and
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complexity of projects. The height of the poles is one of a
number of factors that affects the cost. Also the time that
they are up and whether they need repair, for example, and
so that’s one of the concerns when they do become taller.
The main recommendation for an alternative for those taller
poles was the use of flagging instead of the netting, and
then is there another height beyond which it’s just not
reasonable to use poles at all, but that alternative
methods might be considered, or the complexity?
As we’re going through these different topics I
think that’s very useful, but I would also say that we want
to make sure at the end of the discussion to consider
whether there are other topics that have been brought up by
the commenters, for example, the idea of additions to
single-family homes or new single-family homes. Should
those be excluded completely or under certain categories?
So there definitely are additional topics in addition to
what was listed in the Staff Report.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Can I follow up?
CHAIR BARNETT: Please.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I do think that the
requirement of the 2’ netting is problematic and we all
know why, and so I do think that flagging is a good
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alternative, but I also feel like we should explore as a
town other alternatives, just story poles for some
situations and mainly to also compare the cost, if it could
streamline anything for Town Staff, but also the cost to
developers and everything. Twenty thousand dollars maybe
isn’t a lot to a large developer building a lot of housing,
but we don’t want this to be an impediment to meeting our
RHNA requirements.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Any other comments on
A? Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: This may not be a popular
approach, however, I’m in favor of all the changes Staff
has recommended, A-F, but I think it misses larger points
that the architects have raised, as well as others in the
community.
I do think story poles serve a purpose, but I
think it is a strange purpose. For me, they generally
represent height and that’s about it. As the testimony has
come forward tonight, if the height is within our Zoning
Code, then why would we have the flags or netting or
whatever it might be, because that’s not a contestable
thing.
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We ask for netting or we ask for story poles
specifically when you’re asking for an exception, so it’s
higher than. This was the case on Ms. Wiersema’s project,
and so we thought it was very important that the neighbors
see this is where it’s going to be and we think 3’ makes a
difference, so when there is an exception being asked for I
think it makes sense.
I guess I didn’t realize that story poles are
required for not just projects that go the Planning
Commission, but for projects decided by Staff.
I think it’s really important that we do use the
tools of the 21st century or whatever. There are so many
great modeling tools, and I would say even that model that
we had of the North Forty that sat out in the lobby of the
Civic Center for a long time was an interesting tool.
Miniaturized wasn’t helpful in terms of seeing its overall
impact, but we have such great tools with rendering
software and the capabilities of our experts that those
should be considered as a requirement perhaps over story
poles. I have an issue with the plans being required when
we’ve got the story poles when they are required, being
certified, and installed by experts.
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In short, we got a lot of really good information
in the amendments and the comments and I think that input
isn’t reflected in the six topics that we are being asked
to talk about. It just seems like there are some bigger,
broader issues.
I don’t want to monopolize forever, but the issue
of story poles came up most recently when we were talking
about the Housing Element and the negative impact or the
governmental barrier it has on developing housing. It may
be different, $20,000 when you’re developing a single-
family residence is one thing, but your story poles are
going to be really complicated if you’ve got a more
complex, larger structure, so that’s going to be a
significantly greater cost, and if that’s a negative impact
on the Town’s ability to see housing getting developed, I
think we really have to think about that too.
So for me, what Staff is recommending is okay,
but it doesn’t cover the larger conversation. I feel like
we need a second recommendation from Staff having gone
through what we’re hearing from the experts.
CHAIR BARNETT: I noted that the alternatives
presented on page 65 included a possible motion to continue
the matter to a certain date. Commissioner Hanssen.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I was going to go exactly
there. After listening to the discussion and considering
the input from the architects I think it would be worthy to
continue this to have a more discussion, because I think
the fundamental issue has to start with whether or not we
have story poles and under what circumstances, and then
these things that are listed in the Staff Report are kind
of details and specific cases of story poles, and I think
there’s a bigger discussion.
I did want to also add that, as Commissioner
Janoff noted, this did come up in the Housing Element
discussion, but I will say that when we discussed it
briefly at the Housing Element meeting back about a month
ago Council Member Hudes spoke very passionately about the
importance of story poles and how he would never let them
go away on his watch, that they are the thing that our
residents have to hold onto with all this new building, and
he’s only one person that’s speaking. It is a very
controversial topic and I think it’s worthy of having the
whole picture to discuss, and maybe we don’t have that
right now.
CHAIR BARNETT: Let me start with Commissioner
Thomas, and then I’ll go the Commissioner Janoff.
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COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I agree that I think some
points were brought up and I feel like I would like to be
able to do some more looking around at what other districts
have done for options and in changing requirements and
everything like that, so I do think that it would be
helpful to do that, but I think that it would also be
helpful to Staff to tell them exactly what we want more
information on for further discussion, so that would be my
recommendation.
One of the things would be like specifically
looking at some certain projects and language from some of
these other locations where story poles are and are not
required, and specifically I’m very interested in Los Altos
versus Los Altos Hills, because I think that Los Altos
Hills is in the hills and Los Altos is not, and one removed
and the hillside area didn’t, and we have both those
spaces, so what might that look like on a policy level for
maintaining some of that in areas that are in our
hillsides? We have different requirements for stuff.
CHAIR BARNETT: So we don’t have a motion to
continue yet, but maybe one is developing. Ms. Armer.
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you. I would definitely
ask that we get specific direction as to what additional
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information the Planning Commission needs to further this
conversation. As previously stated, we invite you to talk
about topics that weren’t listed in the Planning Commission
report. In the written Staff Report we included some
topics, but not even specific recommendations, just ideas
that we had heard, and we received additional ideas in the
public comment, and those are worth discussing as well, so
that should not stop the Commission from discussing those
questions in whatever order or fashion works for you.
If there are specific questions about other
agencies, story pole policies that I could answer now, I do
have a number of those here in front of me in terms of, for
example, the City of Los Altos did just remove their
policy, they don’t require it. The town of Los Altos Hills,
however, does have a policy and they require it for new
buildings, second story additions, additions exceeding 900
square feet that increase the roof height, etc. I could go
through the full list.
But if there are particular questions, I may be
able to answer some of that, or if there are particular
topics that you can include in discussion tonight and then
really narrow in on what additional information Staff can
provide for further discussion.
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CHAIR BARNETT: Vice Chair Raspe.
VICE CHAIR RASPE: Thank you, Chair. I think it
makes perfect sense to continue this discussion with
specific direction to Staff, and I actually wanted to join
almost 100% with all the comments that Commissioner Janoff
said.
I came from Los Angeles before I lived here, and
one of the things you first notice as you come into town
are story poles; we don’t have those in Los Angeles. I
think they serve a purpose. I think they help you, and as
Commissioner Burnett noticed, you visualize site lines that
you don’t get from renderings.
That being said, it’s also my view that you don’t
need them for every project, and we can certainly, I think,
start moving towards a more 21st/22nd century use of
technology. The renderings, I think, are going to be great.
The problem with that is not every one of our citizens is
ready to use all those tools, and so I don’t think we can
today jump to just renderings as opposed to story poles,
but I think as a town we should start moving there.
What I would like to see as part of our further
discussion is perhaps a discussion of what technology is
available and who is using it.
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I would also like a discussion, as Commissioner
Janoff indicated, on should we be using this only when
variances are sought and perhaps not use them if no
variances are sought and everything is built pursuant to
code? What’s the use essentially of the story poles?
Then maybe perhaps thirdly, a discussion of
commercial versus residential uses of story poles and
should there be a distinction in those applications? One
certainly applies more directly to business, but I guess
they both do since they both impact architects and
builders.
Off the top of my head, those are the areas I
think I would like to see a little bit further information
from Staff, so thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Any other specific
recommendations to Staff? We’ll start with Commissioner
Burnett.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Thank you, Chair. I would
say that we could have exceptions to story poles, that some
large projects, maybe like the North Forty where it’s very
specific plans, you have the density, the intensity, the
height, the massing is pretty well talked about,
documented, and so it’s not a huge surprise, I think, to
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the Town or the Town’s people driving by that area that
this is coming about, this is going to be part of Los
Gatos. There could be a model down at the Council chamber
like they’d had previously; of course it didn’t turn out
looking like that, but it would still be available. So I
could see there would be structures that wouldn’t need
story poles.
Where I think story poles are so important are
neighborhoods and the downtown area where there’s a lot of
vitality and a lot of community activities going on, so I
could see where we could have exceptions to story poles,
which would help with the building costs for the large
projects like the North Forty; I would think that that
could work.
So there are options. I think we could meet in
the middle and get all our needs met. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Other comments or
suggestions? Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Council Member Hudes makes
an interesting point, and he is one voice, one vote.
However, without alternatives that’s probably where most
people would land, so I’d be interested in understanding
why the other municipalities in the County have eliminated
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their requirement for story poles. Was that a recent thing?
Are they tied to the Housing Element and the whole barriers
thing? In particular, Los Altos on February 14th, I’m
assuming that was related to the…
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Yes.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: So they probably got a
comment back from HCD and said there’s a barrier to remove.
I also think that the letter alone from the group
of architects has a number of points that could be
discussed, particularly the last seven or so. No single-
story home. No single-story addition. No story poles
required if there are added roof elements that don’t change
the overall height. Simplified to show the main ridges.
Part of the problem that I have with story poles
sometimes is that you’re seeing so many poles representing
different peaks of different elements, and some of the
homes that are architected are so interesting in their
rooflines you get a lot of mixed up sightlines, so you
really do see. So I think there’s a list here that’s a good
list to start from in terms of grouping what would be
excluded and what might not be excluded for purposes of
discussion going forward.
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CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Other specific
recommendations for Staff investigation? Commissioner
Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I have a list of questions
and comments. Basically the first one is just what are the
main alternative options to story poles, especially for
single-family homes? Like some of these suggestions that
were listed: additions, remodels, and just new development.
Then how can we best ensure that the story poles
don’t impede our Housing Element plans for moving forward?
Because we know that that’s a concern and it’s going to be
hard for us to get that stuff done, so we don’t want to
just add extra trouble for ourselves.
Is it legal or are we allowed to only require
story poles when variances are requested? Can we align some
of the story pole requirements or alternatives to story
poles requirements with… If we were going to make
distinctions between things, would it be about density with
regard to housing? Would it be with number of units, or lot
size, or FAR? What is the defining thing that would
triggers story poles going up because this is considered a
big project? We see projects that are asking for variances,
or it’s the biggest house in the neighborhood, or it’s a
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new this in the neighborhood, etc., so what would trigger
the story poles maybe needing to be put up for some
specific projects? What are the parameters and how might we
best go about that in a way that is streamlined and easy
for everyone to understand?
Then how can we still make sure, because I think
that this is really the concern that everyone is talking
about and Council Member Hudes’ main concern, that
neighbors know that construction is going to happen, that
things are going to be torn down, that new stuff is going
to be built or added on? What alternatives are there to
these big, ugly things that do often scare people and that
don’t also follow up by looking at the plans in as much
detail as we maybe do? How can we really make sure that
people are still aware that projects are happening? I think
that is a lot of peoples’ main concern, because it is true.
I walk around in my neighborhood on a walk with my dog or
my friend and I see orange poles, and that triggers an oh,
this is happening and I’m aware of what’s going on in town,
so I do think that that is a concern. How do we flag
something so that neighbors and people walking by know in a
way that is no quite a egregious as a story pole but is
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better than just a small sign in front of someone’s house,
so where does that happen?
My last question is the legality of looking at
the distinction between hillside areas and not. Is that
something that would be easy for us to distinguish between,
or would Staff or the Town Attorney recommend that it needs
to be a more blanket policy with regard to all housing and
a different policy for commercial, etc.?
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I would like to echo what
was said earlier. I would like to understand a little bit
more about actually the jurisdictions that are still
keeping their story pole policies. In looking at the list,
the Towns are all place where there are a lot of views.
I will also add that as difficult and expensive
it was for the North Forty, the North Forty Specific Plan,
we had our own Specific Plan committee with I believe 11
people on it who met for years and years. The plans were
under development for years and years. The time it really
got the Town’s attention was when the story poles went up.
This is what always happens, and so I think we would have
to think really long and hard about removing the
requirement for story poles period. That would be a very,
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very difficult discussion for our town, but there is
probably a lot of intermediate discussions about maybe if
you’re just adding a second story addition maybe that’s not
necessary, especially when you consider the cost relative
to the cost of the development, things like that.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: I think Commissioner Thomas
raises an interesting point about what could we install to
raise the flag?
The other thing I’d like to comment on is the
orange netting in a hillside setting, like we had on this
recent project, was alarming. I don't know if it’s possible
to have beige netting instead of orange netting, but it is
true that it sends a message of alarm, and that starts a
negative conversation before it starts a positive one, I
think, so I think that point is well taken.
Yet I do agree that the conversation gets going
when the netting goes up, and we hear many, many times
people will say, “I had no idea until I saw the orange
poles next door,” so it really does serve as notice, even
the requirement to notice your neighbors is there, and even
though the better notification of your neighbors include
renderings so you can see what it’s actually going to look
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like in your neighborhood, not everybody looks at those. So
what are people doing to make sure? What are communities
doing to make sure neighbors are alerted, the community is
alerted?
CHAIR BARNETT: I’m going to jump in with a
couple of my own. The issue was raised about whether the
flagpole requirements are in violation of the Housing
Accountability law or perhaps other statutes promoting
housing. I think it would be good for the Town Attorney to
respond to us on that issue.
Then concerning Mr. Rutherford’s email of March
23rd, he brought up the issue of flag ropes as a more
feasible alternative, particularly in higher heights, and I
think that feedback on that would be helpful.
He also made a point about fencing not being
allowed, which he thought was a safety issue. I thought he
said a fence had been applied for but not granted. I think
that was on the car dealership in particular. Thank you.
Commissioner Burnett and then Commissioner
Thomas.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Thank you, Chair.
Question: What is the average length of time the story
poles are up? Is there any number?
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JENNIFER ARMER: It varies greatly. Thank you for
that question. It can be that it’s put up and we send out
the notice and within a month a decision has been made and
the appeal period has been completed. For example, if it
was a new second story addition that stayed as a Minor
Residential Development Application.
But for many it is for several months, because
the story poles need to go up, and then we need to notice
for public hearing, get notice in the newspaper, and then
following the public hearing, even if there is only one,
there then is the additional ten-day appeal period.
Then we have some that are up for a very long
time as it goes through various Commission meetings or than
appeals.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Thank you for that. I have
a follow up question.
CHAIR BARNETT: Go ahead, please.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Not a question, but a
comment. Another reason why I think story poles are
important, there was a large home that was built in my
neighborhood and we didn’t realize the mass of it until the
story poles went up, and that alerted the neighbors and we
were able to meet with the contractor, the designer, the
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builder, and the massing was reduced. So that’s a key part
of why story poles are important, especially in a
neighborhood. You get the feeling of what it’s going to be
and it’s the massing and the height, and we were able to
speak with the owner and builder and be able to make
adjustments, which was a much better project for our
neighborhood.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Commissioner Thomas,
we want to get back to you.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you. I completely
understand and agree. Like I said, the story poles tell us
when a project is happening, but like with the North Forty,
by the time the story poles go up it’s too late really for
the public and neighbors to be heavily involved in the
process of deciding what this project is going to end up
being and looking like, and so for us I feel like story
poles go up, people come to Planning Commission meetings,
neighbors are upset because they didn’t understand, and
we’re sitting here telling people that have gone through
all of the processes they’re supposed to, done everything
they’re supposed to do, like you have to go back a couple
of steps to appease your neighbors, and that process is not
productive, so I think that we should really try to be
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innovative and creative in the way that we let the public
know, and maybe we need to start getting some ideas of
alternatives to story poles out sooner in the process,
specifically I think with residential projects, because I
know that that’s what we deal with a lot, but with
residential projects or the big, giant, huge projects, like
get public comment in sooner so that it can actually be
taken into account, because that’s where it becomes so much
tension.
When the North Forty thing happened people were
so, so upset, and we don’t want to be a reactionary town
that is making policies after the fact to fix things, so
getting more people involved beforehand, informing people
earlier on in the process is the thing that is going to
make it more productive for everyone involved, and I don’t
know the answer to how we do that, but I think that looking
at how maybe other places have tried to do that is
something that would be really helpful.
JOEL PAULSON: Through the Chair, prior to the
Vice Chair speaking, just for a little background. If
someone comes up to the counter and say, “I’m thinking of
doing a project,” make sure you talk to your neighbors.
They don’t talk to their neighbors. They submit their
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application. We give them the comments. Make sure you talk
to your neighbors. Staff does that, but many people choose
not to take that option and we can’t force them or require
them to do that, but I want to make sure that you have that
context.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you, and I think that
people do just hope that it squeaks by and they get it
through and people just won’t notice the giant story poles
or whatever, or it’s too late in the process, but I do
think that with individuals it’s hard, but maybe with some
of the bigger projects there is something that we can do
earlier on to get more people involved. Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Vice Chair Raspe, you had a
comment?
VICE CHAIR RASPE: I think you raise great
points. I just wanted to raise a kind of counter point. I
think it was the Wood Road project where we had story poles
up, and I guess it was very early on in the process, and
the neighbors had really… So I would agree with you, story
poles I think are most useful if we can do it right at the
outset and it’s an accurate reflection on what the project
is going to be, and I think in that particular instance
it’s not just the immediate neighbors, because those were
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in sight lines, so the entire town had a great idea of what
was proposed up on that hill.
CHAIR BARNETT: Do we have any other comments? Go
ahead, Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you, Chair and Vice
Chair. I totally agree that that was really helpful, and it
was early on in the project. I have no idea if this is even
normal or possible, but is it possible for us to explore
options where if someone wants to develop something and
they want to build something around the height requirement,
then putting things up earlier in the process, because we
all know it doesn’t reflect the mass or what the finished
product is going to look like, so is that something? I see
Ms. Armer maybe with an idea.
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. The
one caution that I would give is that it’s not unusual that
through the Staff review process, and particularly review
by the Town’s consulting architect, that there do end up
being changes to the proposed massing of the building, and
so those kinds of changes then, if it was for example, a
project that was coming to Planning Commission for review,
would then necessitate changes to the story poles,
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additional ones being installed, and so could in the end
compound the expense and requirement for those projects.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you for that. I think we’re
ready for a motion to continue if there are no more
specific recommendations for Staff. Not seeing any, so I’ll
entertain a motion to continue, and I’ll be asking Staff if
there’s a projected date for that?
JENNIFER ARMER: Thank you for that question. We
would recommend that it be continued to May 24th, and if we
need more time to prepare the information you’ve requested,
then we could always continue it at that time.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Vice Chair Raspe, were
you raising your hand?
VICE CHAIR RASPE: I probably was, so I will go
ahead. I will make a motion to continue the matter before
the Planning Commission, specifically the discussion of
recommendation to Town Council on Modifications to Town
Height Pole and Netting Policy for Additions and New
Construction to a date certain of May 24, 2023 so that
Staff can gather information requested by Planning
Commission and commentators this evening.
CHAIR BARNETT: Thank you. Is there a second?
Commissioner Burnett.
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COMMISSIONER BURNETT: I second.
CHAIR BARNETT: Is there discussion on the
motion? Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: I just have a question
about the pathway that this takes after we will make our
recommendation on the 24th, and then it goes to Town
Council, and then what happens?
JENNIFER ARMER: As with other recommendations
that you have made, for example the objective standards,
this is something that once the Planning Commission feels
they have something that they can recommend, it would go to
Town Council and then Town Council would consider the
modifications to the policy.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Thank you.
CHAIR BARNETT: Any further discussion? If not,
I’ll call the question. Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Yes.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Thomas.
COMMISSIONER THOMAS: Yes.
CHAIR BARNETT: Vice Chair Raspe.
VICE CHAIR RASPE: Yes.
CHAIR BARNETT: Commissioner Burnett.
COMMISSIONER BURNETT: Yes.
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CHAIR BARNETT: And Commissioner Janoff.
COMMISSIONER JANOFF: Yes.
(END)