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A P P E A R A N C E S•
Lob Gatos Planning
Commissioners:
Community Development
Director:
Planning Manager:
Town Attorney:
Transcribed by
Kendra Burch, Chair
Mary Badame, Vice Chair
Charles Erekson
Melanie Hansen
D. Michael Kane
Joanne Talesfore
Laurel Prevetti
Joel Paulson
Robert Schultz
Vicki L. Blandin
(510) 337 -1558
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
Item #5, 165 Los Gatos - Saratoga Road
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P R O C E E D I N G S
CHAIR BURCH: We will now consider Agenda Item 5,
Conditional Use Permit U -14 -025 requesting approval to
modify an existing CUP for Hult's restaurant, to construct
and operate an outdoor dining patio with full liquor
service On property zoned C -2, APN 529 -04 -083.
Can I have a show of hands of the Commissioners
that have visited the property? Are there any disclaimers
`rom any of the Commissioners? Commissioner Kane.
COMMISSIONER KANE: I've discussed this matter
rith the Town Attorney and others. I consider Mr. Hult to
,e a good friend. We've spent a lot of time together, we
erved on the board of directors for the Chamber of
'ommerce, of which he is now president, and wondered if I
hould reveal the relationship or recuse myself. The
esponses I've received consistently from all sources is
hat I should reveal the relationship and do my job, which
intend to do. In fact, I intend to give him a hard time
1 a couple of points.
CHAIR BURCH: Thank you, Commissioner Kane. Ms.
Iseley, I understand you're going to give us the Staff
!port again?
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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MARNI MOSELEY: I am, thank you.
The subject site is located at the southwest
corner of University Avenue and Los Gatos- Saratoga Road.
The existing tenant, Hult's, has occupied the space since
2013. Prior occupants have been Hobee's and Bakers Square.
The Applicant is requesting to modify their CUP
to permit an outdoor dining patio with full liquor service
that will be proposed along Los Gatos - Saratoga Road
frontage, and to increase the permitted seating from 114 tc
158 seats.
In 2014 the Applicant applied for a modification
of their CUP in order to modify the permitted alcohol
service from beer and wine to full liquor. At the same time
the Applicant proposed a reduction in operating hours and a
modification to the dining classification from high -
turnover sit -down to a quality restaurant. The Town Council
approved the Applicant's requests in April 2014.
The Applicant is proposing to install a new 4'
masonry wall at the edge of the proposed patio to provide
the required delineation, as well as provide screening and
protection, from the busy street. The wall will reduce in
leight to 3' as it nears the corner to provide a clear line
of sight for vehicles, and the wall will be set back a
minimum of 7' from the sidewalk along Los Gatos - Saratoga
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(Road. The wall will be faced with the same stacked stone
used on the restaurant, and new drought tolerant
landscaping will be used between the wall and the sidewalk.
The Applicant has requested to utilize the same
hours as the existing restaurant for the patio, which are
9:00am to 11:00pm, Sunday through Thursday, and 9:00am to
midnight on Friday and Saturday.
While it is at the discretion of the Commission
to include this in their recommendation to the Town
Council, the Commission and the Town Council have
historically restricted the use of outdoor patios,
particularly when adjacent to residential uses, to no later
than 10:00pm daily. As a result, Staff suggests the
inclusion of an additional condition restricting the hours
of the outdoor patio to 10:00pm daily.
The use of a restaurant in the downtown requires
one parking space for every four seats. The property has 46
spaces in the Parking District and 13 parking spaces
onsite, for a total of 59 spaces. The proposed use requires
only 40 parking spaces.
In conclusion, Staff recommends that the
:ommission forward a recommendation of approval to the Town
:ouncil and that the proposed use complies with parking,
foes not have an impact to traffic above that of the
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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I previous tenant, and complies with the Town's Alcoholic
2 Beverage Policy.
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In addition, the Applicant is proposing to locate
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the patio furthest away from the residential use to the
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rear and would improve the appearance of the property
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frontage along Los Gatos - Saratoga Road, which would include
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e a new landscaping buffer between the proposed patio and the
street.
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10 This concludes Staff's report. we are here if you
11 have any questions.
12 CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Are there any questions?
13 Commissioner Erekson.
14 CHARLES ERERSON: Thank you for your report, Ms.
15 Moseley. When the Police Department reviewed the
16 application and they had no comments, did they have
17 concerns about them having operating hours on the patio
18 beyond 10:00pm?
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MARNI MOSELEY: They did not specifically mention
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any.
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CHARLES ERERSON: Thank you.
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23 CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Hanssen.
29 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I was just curious, I
zs think my sense is that this is not the case, but wouldn't
they be the first restaurant to have an outdoor patio on
LOS GATOS PLANNING COIM1ISSION 4/8/2015
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1 Highway 9, or am I missing something? I know there are
2 other restaurants in downtown, like Willow Street, for
3 example. we
p go there all the time, they have that, but
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they're on a much less trafficked area. I was just curious,
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this is a first for Highway 9, isn't it?
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MARNI MOSELEY: This would be the first, because
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s the only other restaurant on Highway 9 is Double D's, and
9 they don't have any outdoor patio out there.
10 CHAIR BURCH! Any other questions? No? Thank you,
11 Ms. Moseley. I want to open the public portion of the
12 hearing and give the Applicant five minutes to speak. Alex
13 Hult. You have five minutes to speak. Please make sure you
14 pull the microphone up to you, and when the yellow light
15 comes on, you have 30 seconds left.
16 ALEXANDER HULT: My name is Alexander Hult. I'm
17 the owner of Hult's restaurant together with my wife, Sarah
19 Hult. I've also lived here since 2012 and I'm planning on
19 living here, raising my kids here, and becoming a big part
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of the Los Gatos community. Like Mike mentioned, I was on
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the board of the Chamber of Commerce. It is very important
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to me that I grow my community role and act as a good role
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24 model, and I'm very open to questions as we're going over
25 this, and I'm very grateful to have this opportunity to
speak in front of you.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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I Why am I here today? I'm trying to satisfy my
2 guests at the restaurant. We were here in April of last
year trying to add a liquor license. That was approved
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unanimously and we're very grateful for that, because that
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was something that my guests really wanted and after
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receiving it we have seen a busier bar scene and something
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that really is fulfilling the dining experience that we
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have tried hard to create where people come in. They have a
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10 nice drink after work, they have a nice meal, they sit,
11 they relax, they have a two -hour long dinner, and then they
12 leave and they go home and they go to sleep.
13 A couple of things that I want to mention that I
14 think is very important in this submittal and trying to get
15 this done is I don't understand the reasoning behind
16 closing the patio at 10:00pm when we are allowed to be open
17 inside the restaurant till midnight on Fridays and
18 Saturdays.
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I could potentially see a pretty big benefit for
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Los Gatos in having an option for young adults, or
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clientele in general, that are usually between 30 and 70.
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They want to come in for a nice experience, and in my
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opinion there is a lack of a place to go for a couple that
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25 are dating, or a married couple that have a babysitter,
they have their date night after their long work week.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COIM4ISSION 4/8/2015
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1 Friday night comes along, they go to Hult's for dinner, and
2 there's absolutely nowhere for them to go after 9:00 -9:30
3 when they're done with dinner.
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So what I'm proposing is that they can now come
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outside and sit in a really nice looking patio. We're not
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proposing to do the typical iron chairs, very
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uncomfortable, where you kind of sit down, eat, and leave.
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What we're proposing to do is like a little bit more
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10 upscale couch feel, like lounge chair, very nice looking
11 and very contemporary that I think would really benefit
12 diners, and it would be a good way for them to round off
13 their evening sitting out there having an extra little
14 bite, maybe having their desserts out there.
is I think overall it would be very important to not
16 reduce the hours, because it wouldn't make sense. If people
17 sit down at 8:00 o'clock, why would we rush them to leave
16 after 10:00? It doesn't make sense, because we are not that
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type of a place where that would be a problem, in my
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opinion. I think it would be very nice to be able to keep
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serving them until the same hours that we have on the
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indoor.
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And then there might be a discussion later when
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25 we talk about that wall that we're going to build.
Obviously everyone knows Highway 9 during certain hours of
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I the day is a pretty busy street, and how is it going to
2 look and feel to sit out there and have dinner? One of the
1 reasons why I don't want the regular 30" dining tables is
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because you need to come down a little bit lower so you get
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that wall as opposed to 42" is normally your regular
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? private dining where noise doesn't really come in as much.
e Pretty much what I'm trying to say is I don't
9 know how this process really works, but the plan Marni
recommended to say 4', so it goes from 3' and then up to
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4'. 1 prefer if it could go from 3' to 51, but I don't know
12 if that's something that can change today or not, but I
13 just wanted to put that out there. I think a 5' wall would
14 be a lot better for the sound issues. Thank you.
15 CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Any questions?
16 Commissioner Badame.
17 VICE CHAIR BADAME: You described
your furniture
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as being more upscale, more lounge -like. Does that mean it
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would stay on the patio overnight, and would you secure it?
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ALEXANDER HOLT: I would stay overnight, yes.
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zz VICE CHAIR BADAME: Here's my concern. There's
23 somewhat of a homeless contingent that lives right where
29 the overpass /underpass is there with 17, so I can easily
25 see people scaling the wall and taking a nap there during
the night, and you might have some hygiene problems there
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1 as a result. So just something to think about, and I'm not
2 sure if the other Commissioners might want to see the
3 furniture brought in during the night as we've done with
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others restaurants.
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CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore,
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Thank you. Just to
e elaborate on that point, when you were describing the kind
9 of furniture, here on Exhibit 0-3.0 I see tables and
10 chairs, and then I just heard you say something about the
11 furniture being couch -like.
12 ALEXANDER HOLT: Yeah, more like comfortable
13 where you have a cushion, and it's not that iron rod where
19 it's very uncomfortable to sit at.
15 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Okay, I understand. And
16 then getting to Commissioner Badame's point, which is
17 always my bailiwick too with outdoor restaurants, is the
19 whole idea of the outdoor furniture. In the proposed
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Conditions of Approval, Number 9, which is in Exhibit 3, I
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don't know if you read these, but it does say that the
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"outdoor furniture, including tables, chairs and heat
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23 lamps, shall be placed indoors at or before the close of
29 business." Are you aware of that?
zs ALEXANDER HULT: No, I did not read that.
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I COMMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Which is what we require
2 of other restaurants as well, so that's what I wanted to
3 ask you about.
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And I have one more question. My other question
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is the hostess stand, is that permanent? Can you describe
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that for me? what does that look like? I haven't seen it in
the elevations, and I see it pictured here on 0-3.0 as a
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rectangle, but I have no idea what it is.
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10 ALEXANDER HULT: No disrespect to this beautiful
11 table, but it's very similar to this, just a little bit
12 more elegant.
13 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: So that's a moveable
14 table as well? You would not be leaving it out there?
15 ALEXANDER HULT: Yes.
16 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: That's all for now.
17 CHAIR EURCH: Commissioner Hanssen.
1s COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I just want to make sure I
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understood your intent with the patio. It sounded to me
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like the way you envision things to work, and if I said it
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wrong please correct me, people would come in and they'd
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have their meal in the restaurant, but then they would go
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outside on the patio like it was a bar area?
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ALEXANDER HULT: No.
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LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
Item $5, 165 Los Gatos-Saratoga Road
1 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, good, because that's
2 what I thought I heard you say.
3 ALEXANDER HULT: No, that is the inside use and
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the outside use will be exactly the same. What I was trying
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to explain was that at the end of the night, if you have a
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good time and you're done with dinner, it would be nice to
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go sit somewhere with a little bit better ambience, and me
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personally, I love sitting outdoors where you can and sit
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10 and talk and catch up with your friends and finish your
11 dinner maybe at a later hour than 10:00.
12 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Are you talking about if
31 they had dinner at your restaurant, or at another
14 restaurant and came to your place?
15 ALEXANDER HULT: In my restaurant mostly.
16 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So they're meeting the
17 requirement to have the meal by eating in your restaurant,
is but then they're going to come out and have drinks without
19 having food on the patio?
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ALEXANDER HULT: No, what I was kind of
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envisioning was you come in and you have dinner, and if the
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patio is already full, but by the time that they are done
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29 with their dinner and other people have moved, potentially
25 being able to have like your dessert by the nice outdoor
ambience is what I was thinking.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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1 CHAIR BURCH: Can I ask a quick question? As far
2 as the hours on the patio, I know there's not a lot of
3 residential there, but did you do a little outreach and
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just let them know what you were proposing and get some
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feedback?
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ALEXANDER HOLT: I'm really good friends with the
s only neighbor, and that is the complete opposite of where
9 the patio would be, and on the entire intersection.
10 CHAIR BURCH: I know where it is. I just want to
11 know if you
12 ALEXANDER HOLT: I did not talk to him
13 specifically about this, but I can personally say that they
14 wouldn't have a problem with it, because they are usually
15 out there having fun with us when we're done closing the
16 restaurant.
17 CHAIR BURCH: Okay. Commissioner Kane, you had a
18 question?
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COMMISSIONER KANE: With the Chair's permission,
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I have a couple of questions. I'm supposed to ask you
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questions, so I'm going to put this in the form of
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questions.
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29 What you talk about the hours, that patio should
25 close at 10:00 and that's not entirely okay with you, 1
think the response you're going to get is that, "The
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1 Commission and Town Council have historically restricted
2 the use of patios," presumably all over town, that they
3 close them down at 10:00 o'clock, and they add,
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"...especially when it is adjacent to a residential
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property." I think that the answer you're going to get is
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because they haven't let anybody else do it, is that
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correct?
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JOEL PAULSON: I would look to Ms. Moseley. I'm
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not aware of any that have outdoor dining past 10:00pm, but
31 Ms. Moseley probably has done further research on that.
12 MARNI MOSELEY: I apologize; I have not done
13 specific research on that. In the last probably five or six
14 years I'm not aware of any that the Council has considered
Is outdoor seating and not done that restriction on, so any
16 that may have allowances beyond that would predate the
17 recent history. So using that trend by the Council, we are
16 suggesting that restriction.
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CO[MIISSIONER KANE: Thank you. So that's what you
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may be up against.
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I wanted to ask some other questions. I've been
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in town 35 years and feel like there's been some erosion to
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24 the existing Alcohol Policy that the Town has, which policy
25 is fortunately undergoing review, but what the Commissioner
is asking you, I need to know that you in fact understand
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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I the proposed patio, just like the entire restaurant, would
2 be required to provide full meal service with all alcohol
3 sales. That is to say, you cannot get a drink without a
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meal. Do you understand that?
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ALEXANDER HDLT: Yes.
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COMMISSIONER BANE: Another item that concerns me
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With respect to erosion of the Town Code is what you're
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promising the chief of police. In Exhibit 4 of Staff's
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le submissions it says, "All establishments shall use an
11 employee.training manual that addresses alcoholic beverages
12 consistent with the standards of the State of California."
13 My issues are kids in bars, kids sitting at the bar and
19 drinks being given with a wink, and the fact that staff is
15 not educated on these conditions. So do you have a plan to
16 educate your staff with respect to these conditions?
12 ALEXANDER HULT: We already have that in place.
18 We make them take about a seven page test. I don't have
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that with me, obviously I wasn't prepared, but if you'd
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like I can submit such text. It's called a Hult's Alcohol
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Test and it goes over like when should they be IDed, when
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should they not? Pretty much everything that has to do with
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29 alcohol, and I would say it's probably one of the hardest
as ones. I had to do some studying to find all the answers
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myself, and I think it's very important. I take it
seriously.
When we did get the ABC license to do the things
the right way, my wife is a pre - school principal and she's
trying to get me in shape, do things the right way and that
way you don't have to redo it. Before I was a little bit
more on let's just get it done, and then after being
married for two years I've learned to do things the right
way, so that's usually the best way to do it.
COMMISSIONER KANE: V. not familiar with the
entire ABC code, but I'm led to believe that they restrict
children sitting at the bar, so that's point number one.
Point number two is alcohol will only be served
With a meal, and those are my two points that I'm asking:
Do you have a plan? Shall you educate staff on these two
points?
ALEXANDER HULT: Yes, of course.
COMMISSIONER KANE: Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Hanssen.
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Can I follow up in making
i little bit of a different question from what Commissioner
:ane just asked? A hypothetical scenario. You've got people
'.hat are near age, right around 21, so how does this
Process work? They come in the restaurant; they order their
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1 dinner inside. Who checks their ID? And then they decide to
2 go outside, who checks their ID?
And who checks to make
3 sure that they actually ate inside? If there were a hostess
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sitting outside, how would they know if they actually ate?
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ALEXANDER HULT: There will be two separate
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people that they would order from, so there would be a
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8 designated server outdoors, and you obviously cannot bring
9 the alcohol out on the street and then into the patio, so
10 whoever they order from in the bar in the restaurant would
11 be in charge of checking their ID, and we check IDs if the
12 person looks younger than 30, and we're very tight on that,
13 because I don't want it to become a problem. I tell my
14 staff all the time, "Did you check their ID ?" Sometimes
Is people even see it as a compliment, it usually works out
16 pretty good to check IDs pretty tight. My wife, in fact,
17 was asked for her ID yesterday and she was shining up like
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a sun.
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So my point is that you would get your ID checked
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inside, and then if you were to order something outside,
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that server would be in charge of their food or drink order
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on the patio.
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24 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Okay, so that answers part
zs of my question. The other part of my question was going
back to the use of the patio and it not being a bar. What's
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1 the process for checking to make sure that they actually
2 order a meal and they did that before they came outside?
3 ALEXANDER HULT: It actually Y probably start
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over the process. Just because that they came from the
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inside or didn't come from the inside, it's still the same
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thing when they go on the outside. That new server still
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e has the same rules to follow, and I believe what the rules
9 are saying is that we have to as a restaurant provide a
to full menu. It cannot just be snacks, and what we're
11 planning on doing is serving our bar menu or dinner menu,
12 and our dessert menu on the patio as well.
13 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: So my husband and I come
14 to your restaurant after this gets approved, and we walk
15 out to the hostess outside and say we'd like to be seated,
16 and she could ask me if I'm ordering a meal, and if I said
17 it was already inside? I mean I'm just not seeing how the
18 process is
P going to work to keep it from people sitting
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there drinking and doing nothing else.
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ALEXANDER HULT: That's a good question. The
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hostess would probably ask are you intending on having a
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meal. The hostess would say how many people, and then
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24 inside or outside, and then they would get seated, and then
zs the server would come up and ask what would you like to
eat, what would you like to drink.
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COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: I see that as a hole in
:he process that I think you need to address.
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Kane, then
'ommissioner Talesfore.
COMMISSIONER KANE: V. guessing this isn't the
'irst time this bridge has been crossed. I would hope that
hat we apply to Hult's restaurant is the same thing we
pplied to the other patio restaurants, and I would hope
hat you don't feel the patio is a bar, because that's
hat's being said. It's going to be a sticky wicket if they
ave dinner inside and then go outside for more drinks, and
hey're joined by friends. It's a sticky wicket. I wouldn't
et them go outside, just hold them inside, because I don't
now how to control the outside, and you've got to be very
areful with that. But on the other hand, we want him to be
eld to the same standards that we hold other places that
beady deal with this situation.
CHAIR BURCH: I think I'm going to ask Staff
:ally quick to clarify, for other restaurants around town
iat have indoor seating and a patio, what kind of
3nditions have we put into the verbiage to ensure that
:'s not treated as a bar?
LAUREL PREVETTI: We don't have those other
conditions with us, but just operationally what typically
LOS GATOS PLANNING COIMfISSION 4/8/2015
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1 has happened is that is one host... for the entire
2 restaurant, and then the diners are given the choice or
3 would you like to dine inside or outside. They are seated
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for their restaurant meal, and then they enjoy whichever
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choice they choose.
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In looking at the draft permit in Exhibit 3, if
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the Commission would like they could modify Condition 5 to
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include that a dessert menu would not be considered a
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to complete meal. So if there is concern that this would
11 become more of an after dinner drinks as opposed to a full
12 meal, Condition 5 could be modified accordingly. So that's
13 another option.
14 And then there's the proposal that Staff gave to
is you regarding the patio hours, which is not in the draft
16 condition, but if that's of interest could be part of a
17 motion to Council, because Council makes the final
18 decision.
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CHAIR BURCH: Thank you. Commissioner Talesfore.
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: My input is that often I
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Will go to a restaurant that has outdoor seating, and the
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hostess had said to us this is for a meal. If you want to
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sit out here, you have to order a meal. It's just said with
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zs that in mind, so it could be one way to close the loop in
that hole that we're looking at.
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I ALEXANDER HULT: Absolutely.
2 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: But I do have a question
3 for you. It's a very busy intersection. Lots of cars, lots
4
of brakes, lots of exhaust, lots of noise, and you want to
5
put an outdoor patio, so I question that. Can you explain
6
to me how you see it differently, or if you do?
8 ALEXANDER HULT: I think that when you're sitting
9 with friends having dinner in a nice setting, and you have
10 preferably a 5' wall blocking all that off, all you're
11 going to really see— because we tried with a piece of
12 plywood and we sat there with tables and chairs —is like
13 looking outside. Instead of getting a busy street, now
14 you're getting like the top of trees, the mountains, you
15 get like a really nice look. And also for the
people,
16 pretty much 808 of the people that have dinner inside, they
I7 sit along that one side on Highway 9, and they constantly
18 complain that they get the headlights in their eyes and
19
that it's not that appealing to look at a busy street. Some
20
other people say that it looks like they're in New York,
21
and I don't know what they're thinking, but that's a
zz
different story.
23
29 So I think that building the patio and the wall
zs is going to like kill two in one —it's a Swedish saying, two
birds and one stone I believe is the American saying —it's
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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I going to make it a lot more appealing from the inside
2 looking out, because now ou're
y going to look at people
3 moving around and it's
going to be a nice ambience, and
4
then the people that are sitting out there are going to be
s
looking into a nice looking restaurant, and the people
s
looking in from the street are no longer going to see an
v
8 old coffee shop, bakery or diner, they're going to see an
9 upscale restaurant, and that's what we are, and I think
10 it's very important that we get that overall feel to kind
11 of tie it all in.
12 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Follow up? So I'm a
13 little concerned now. You're asking for a 5' wall, and I'm
14 having a little hard time trying to visualize. That 5' wall
15 is going to come how high on your windows? Your windows are
16 one of the main features of that building, Probably built
17 in 1960 I would think, and it's significant as far as that
18 design. Whether
9 you like it or not, it tells you an era
19
that it was build, so I'm having a hard time seeing this 5'
20
wall and how that's going to work. I don't have an
z1
elevation of it here, because you have a 4' wall, so I'm
zz
23 stymied with how I'm going to... It's a straight wall,
correct?
24
25 ALEXANDER HULT: So the 3' wall is probably like...
That's fox the traffic. So for the traffic problem..
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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I COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I understand how...
2 ALEXANDER HULT: So pretty much what I wanted to
3 say was that the 3' I completely understand, because it's a
4
busy street, you've got to see the traffic.
5
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Yes.
6
ALEXANDER HDLT: One hundred percent understand
7
that. So the rest of the wall is pretty much halfway or so,
e
maybe a little bit less than half, is 3', and then when it
9
10 goes to 4', that's just this much more. Then you might as
11 well just do 3' and then it doesn't block the sound, which
12 is the reason by I think it's so important to build it.
13 But at 5' it comes above that 42 ', which is seated privacy,
14 and the noise will come over your head versus coming right
15 in your ear.
16 COMMISSIONER TALESPORE: I understand.
17 ALEXANDER HULT: Because if you sit, like the
18 wall at 41, it will literally go by your ear.
19
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I understand that. I'm
20
thinking of aesthetics of a long, solid wall like that in
21
front of your building. I wish I could have a vision of
22
that. Where does the 3' wall start? Is that where your last
23
table is here against the wall?
24
25 ALEXANDER HULT: I don't have the blueprints in
front of me.
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30
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2s
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: I mean I'm going to
assume that Staff checked with the police as far as
visibility along with that?
MARNI MOSELEY: Yes. That is by it's reduced at
that point. Based on the corner site triangle, they reduced
it to 3' in that area, if you look at the last sheet of
Exhibit 7.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Right, I see that.
MARNI MOSELEY: You'll see the elevations and
you'll see where that 3' starts.
CHAIR BURCH: While you're looking at that I'm
going to let Commissioner Badame go ahead and speak.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: Do you plan on having
speakers with amplified music for the outdoor patio area to
kind of muffle the traffic from Highway 9?
ALEXANDER HULT: No, but we're planning on having
maybe some kind of a water feature that will create white
noise apparently. I've been doing a little bit of research
on this, and it helps in creating ambience and it helps to
soften the surrounding noise.
VICE CHAIR BADAME: I think that's a great idea.
Thank you.
CHAIR BURCH: In addition, I have a quick
question, because we don't have any kind of landscape
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I drawings. I would assume, this question about the wall and
2 the height, that isn't
just going to stay a wall, you're
l
going to plant landscaping in front of this and soften the
4
wall?
5
ALEXANDER HULT: Obviously I'm up to modifying my
6
plans based on the what the Town Council and you guys would
a like to see in terms of those little details, but my vision
9 is to have up- lighting. Can you guys kind of picture the
10 stone material? The stones are really beautiful, and with a
11 little bit of up- lighting on it, it really looks very
lz presentable in my opinion. we're in a drought, so we're
13 trying to be conscious of not using water, so there are a
14 lot of really nice drought tolerant plants. Have you driven
is by the new project on Blossom Hill and Los Gatos Boulevard?
16 It's almost the same look as the wall in front of Philz
17 Coffee, and they also have drought tolerant plants right in
is front of it and it looks really nice, I think. I think that
19
answers your question, I hope.
20
CHAIR BURCH: All right, do we have any other
21
questions. Commissioner Talesfore?
22
23 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Yes, I understand. You
29 do say drought tolerant. Are you thinking of covering this
25 wall with a vine of some type to soften it in areas or no?
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1 ALEXANDER HULT: I haven't thought too much about
2 a vine. If that's what
You guys want; it's not that big of
1 a deal. I'm thinking more of like those nice different
4
looking California drought tolerant plants to soften it and
5
make it look really artistic and nice.
6
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Okay, thank you.
a
e CHAIR BURCH: Any other questions of the
9 Applicant? Normally we have people come and speak, and then
10 you have three more minutes. So aside from the questions, I
11 guess you have three minutes for anything else you'd like
12 to address.
11 ALEXANDER HULT: Let me check my notes. No, I
14 think we did a good job covering it all.
15 CHAIR BURCH: All right, thank you.
16 ALEXANDER HOLT: Thank you.
17 CHAIR BURCH: All right, I'm
9 going to close the
to
Public portion of the hearing. Does anyone have any
19
comments, questions, or want to venture a motion?
20
Commissioner Erekson.
21
CHARLES ERERSON: This is a question to Staff. Is
22
23 there any problem with a 5' wall rather than a 4' wall from
29 the Staff's perspective?
25 MARNI MOSELEY: Staff directed the Applicant to
reduce the wall height from the originally proposed 5' down
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1 to 4' based on the just recently rescinded Outdoor Seating
2 Policy that was rescinded by the Town Council last night,
3 so you would have the ability to increase that to 5' if you
4
were comfortable with that additional height. Staff did
5
feel that 4' actually helped integrate the patio with the
6
sidewalk, which is the intention of outdoor seating
7
primarily in the downtown. But code -wise, you would have
8
the ability to. There is nothing that restricts you from
9
10 providing that recommendation to the Town Council.
11 CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore, then
12 Commissioner Hanssen.
13 COtM4ISSIONER TALESFORE: We're discussing now?
14 CHAIR BURCH: Yeah.
15 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: The thing that bothers
16 me about the wall at 5' is that that's what it is, it's a
17 wall, so coming into town you're going to see a wall, and I
18 don't know why it's not integrated into the design. It's an
19
add -on feature, so I'm just having a little trouble with
20
that visually. That's why I think vegetation would be
21
extremely important to soften the appearance of it. I don't
22
care what kind of stone it is, but it's hardscape and it's
23
hard and it's an entry point into town.
24
25 n
CHAIR BURCH: All right, Commissioners Hassen,
Erekson, and Kane.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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1 COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Getting back to this
2 question about the actual use and making sure that it's
3 what we had intended in our approval, do we have any
4
restaurant —I don't know if you have the answer or not —that
s
has outdoor seating where they have more than one hostess?
6
It seemed to me like I'm thinking of having gone to Willow
7
Street many times. You go in the restaurant; inside there
a
9 is only one hostess. They ask you do you want to sit inside
or outside? And pretty much every restaurant I can think of
10
11 it's the same, and to me having a separate outside hostess
12 is very problematic. I don't know if that's a limitation we
13 could put on this that they have to enter in one place so
14 that there's a process to make sure that they're there to
15 have a meal with drinks, not just drinks.
16 JOEL PAULSON: If the Commission is interested in
17 adding that to their recommendation, then they could do
is away with the hostess stand outside and just have all of
19
the hostess servicing from the interior, as I'm assuming it
20
currently is.
21
COMMISSIONER HANSSEN: Do we have an example of a
22
restaurant that's set up with outdoor seating that has done
23
that successfully that also served alcohol that has two
24
hostesses? No.
25
LAUREL PREVETTI: Not that I'm aware.
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1 MARNI MOSELEY: Can I add one little note? The
2 hostess stand was actually a suggestion from Staff based
3 on, again, the Outdoor Seating Policy that states that the
4
patrons that are sitting on the patio should be seated by a
s
restaurant hostess. There was a concern that by having the
6
hostess from the restaurant inside and not having the
v
8 outdoor patio overseen consistently by a hostess, that that
9 would going to be problematic if it was going to be open in
10 the way that they wanted to do it. So that was something
11 that they included on the suggestion of Staff, and if you
12 have further recommendations in ways to accomplish that,
13 that is your purview.
14 CHAIR BURCH: I had assumed it was for security
15 reasons. I think it's probably a bit of a benefit for that
16 reason. No, it's Commissioner Erekson, then Kane.
17 Commissioner Erekson, do you still have a question?
1e CHARLES EREKSON: Assuming the drawings are
19
correct, going back to the wall, so the exit from that area
28
that's at the very north end of that wall is according to
21
the drawing 6' high, and to Commissioner Talesfore's
22
concern about it blocking... If you look at the drawing,
23
29 there's quite a bit of window showing above that, if I'm
reading it right, so it would be essentially if you want to
zs
visualize it halfway in between where the top of the wall
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1 is now in that exit area, and the drawings don't show us
2 this, but I assume the wall that's wrapping around on the
3 north aide —I believe that's north, to the Town parking 2ot -
4
is 6' from that point wrapping around. Is that right?
5
MARNI MOSELEY: I do not believe it's delineated
6
on the plans at this time. If you have directions, you can
0
provide direction as to the height of that. It's not
8
9 delineated, but it would be a safe assumption that it would
be 6'.
10
11 CHARLES EREKSON: Thanks.
12 CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Kane, then
13 Commissioner Talesfore.
14 COMMISSIONER KANE: I share the concerns about
1s the wall. Not the height, but the appearance. I thought
16 there was a recommendation in here about providing some
17 sort of appropriate plant coverage outside the wall, so
is whereas I'm not ready to make a motion, I'd like to
9
consider in advance that the motion should include that
20
subject to the approval of the Community Development
21
Director there would be appropriate plant coverage. Whether
22
that's bushes spaced 3' apart or 4' apart or 2' apart, it
23
24 would break up the appearance of a wall if he has indirect
25 lighting on the wall from the outside. So we don't put in a
hedgerow, which would kill the lighting, we'd just put in
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1 the plants appropriately spaced that presumably were at, or
2 would grow to, the height of 6', and it would just break up
3 the appearance of a wall and it would give it a nice
4
effect, especially with the indirect lighting.
5
But beyond that, we don't design from the dais,
6
but I'm just wondering if it's worth mentioning, the wall
runs east to west, and on the west side is where the
8
9 hostess station is. I'm just wondering, if we sealed that
10 off —and it's going to cost you a buck or two —but if we
11 sealed that off and had a door in the middle of the
12 restaurant so that when people came through the main doors
13 they told the hostess where they'd like to be seated, and
14 they were escorted to that seat by using the inside door
15 rather than having to go back outside. If there's no inside
16 door, then it seems to me that what's being suggested with
17 two hostesses may be the only solution, but if we wanted
18 one hostess, then you would have one access and egress
19 through the main door and then use the inside door to get
20
to the patio.
21
What we're also saying is I hear what the
22
Applicant is envisioning, and I'm saying that's
23
problematic. You make a decision to be outside or inside,
24
zs and like all the other restaurants I know, that's pretty
much where you stay. You don't then go outside for drinks
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1 with friends and create problems with other people joining
2 you. I see his vision, but our experience is you sit inside
3 or outside and that's where you would stay for the time
4
being. So that's a whole bunch of stuff. Madam Chair, thank
s
YOU.
6
CHAIR BURCH: I want to know if I can address our
v
discussion on the doors constructability -wise and cost-
a
9 wise, because I had thought about the same thing, that if
10 you go out the front of there, those columns in between the
11 windows are structurally loadbearing and quite old to
12 renovate the front of that, add doors in that would meet
13 code, it could be a substantial cost and problem. So I
14 looked at the same thing, but when I went and looked at it,
15 it's asking a lot.
16 COMMISSIONER BANE: I know that's your expertise,
17 and I came up with a Plan B. Folks who are going to be
is sitting ut there will likely y get their food service
19
through the back door, so there is a door that leads out on
20
the east side of the building, and if somebody wants to sit
21
out there, that somebody escorts them through the
22
restaurant and out that back door and onto the patio, which
23
24 is sealed off. So you don't need two hostesses is what I'm
zs saying. So anyway, there is a door. I understand you
understand these things better than I do. If you can't put
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I a door in there, there is a proverbial back door that might
2 be a solution.
3
CHAIR BURCH: Commissioner Talesfore.
4
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: To comment on two
5
hostesses or not, actually I believe that the other
6
restaurant in town that has two hostesses, one for the
v
s outdoor patio and one for the restaurant, is Wine Cellar.
9 So you can eat outside, and if you don't want to, you can
10 go downstairs and a hostess will show you somewhere in
11 there,'so that works quite well and I see a real need to
12 have that done, so we do have precedence for it.
13 But another architectural question about the
14 wall. I noticed here on G -3.0 that if you look at the side
15 lawn or vegetation area that's next to the sidewalk, it has
16 a curve in it. Do you remember this? There's a curve in
17 this area here. What I was hoping is that the wall, instead
1s of coming to a straight angle, could mimic the curve in
19
that planted area. It would soften the wall a lot and I
20
think it would add a nice detail as well.
21
22 CHAIR BURCH: I'm sure if you're ready to make a
23 motion, we could potentially add that.
24 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: All right then, if I can
zs make a motion. Okay, I'm going to make a motion, and then
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1 if my other Commissioners have any conditions they would
2 like to add, please jump in.
3
I will make a motion to approve Conditional Use
4
Permit U -14 -026 at 165 Los Gatos - Saratoga Road. The
5
Applicant is Alexander Hult. This is, by the way, a
6
recommendation for approval to the Town Council, so my
8 motion is not for approval but is a recommendation to
9 forward it to the Town Council.
10 I can make the General Plan designation. I can
11 make the findings as exhibited in Exhibit 2, which are
12 required under CEQA, and required findings for a
13 Conditional Use Permit as required by Section 29.21.90 of
14 the Town Code for granting a Conditional Use Permit, and
1s that would be 1 -4, and required findings for the
16 Redevelopment Plan for the Central Los Gatos Redevelopment
17 Project Area, and required findings for the Town's Alcohol
18 Beverage Policy, y, and that would be A -C, and that's my
19
motion.
20
CHAIR BURCH: Do we have a second? I'll second
21
it. Do we have any discussion or comments? Commissioner
22
Badame.
23
24 VICE CHAIR BADAME: I just have a question. So
25 does that mean your motion includes the hours to 12:OOam?
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is
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COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Oh, yes, I forgot that
.,recommendation by Staff that the outdoors seating would be
open only until 10:00pm daily. And then I think who else
had something they wanted to add?
COMMISSIONER KANE: To the maker of the motion,
I'd like to add language along the lines of rather than us
getting into plant design, the Community Development
Director knows what our intent is, so subject to the
approval of the Community Development Director, appropriate
plant coverage, bushes interspaced as appropriate, be added
to the outside of the wall, which wall is to be 511
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Oh, we have to talk...
CHAIR BURCH: I would feel, my opinion, that if
there's proper vegetation the difference between 4' and 5'
is pretty minimalistic, and if it creates a better sense of
ambience in there.
COMMISSIONER KANE: So my requested addition
would be 5', if that were acceptable to the maker of the
notion.
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: It is. I would just like
22
to know that the landscaping is to be chosen so that it
23
actually breaks up the long run of that wall and softens
24
zs it. And I forgot to add that I wanted to also have the west
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1 end of that long wall replicate the curve in the lawn
2 planted area. I'm not sure how to describe that.
3 CHAIR BURCH: Can I ask you a question?
4
COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Yes.
5
CHAIR BURCH: So even if you have that wall mimic
6
the curve, you are going to have the new exit door exactly
v
where it is, because the walkway ramp meets ADA compliance
8
9 and the slope of that is set by code, so that door is going
to to be where that door shows, that exit. So you're going to
11 have a curved wall dive into an odd looking corridor thing.
12 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Honestly, let me ask you
13 this. If that wall was just slightly curved, could that
14 work or not?
15 CHAIR BURCH: As long as you're fine with that
16 door is going to be exactly where that door shows, because
17 that existing walkway ramp I think is new. I think they
1s just got it recently. It's ADA; you can't mess with that,
19
so that exit is going to be where that exit shows. I think
20
in light of aesthetics, instead of having it that odd; we
21
should just keep the wall as it is. Clearly the architect
22
looked at that.
23
29 COMMISSIONER TALESFORE: Okay, we'll do that. We
can add vegetation areas to soften that.
25
CHAIR BURCH: All right.
LOS GATOS PLANNING COMMISSION 4/8/2015
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1 COMMISSIONER TALESPORE: I can go with that.
2 Thank you.
3
CHAIR BURCH: Did you have another comment,
4
Commissioner Kane? All right, so we have a motion and a
s
second. All in favor? Passes unanimously. And there are no
6
appeals because this is a recommendation to the Council.
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